(NU) Neatness united!

Nau · Feb 17th, 2013, 8:57:04 AM

Hello community,

I wanted to present to you...

Neatness united!

It is basically just a team made up by Pokes I like to use, still, this team does increadibly well in NU, and if I lost, it was almost ever only because of my own dumbness or just bad luck. Although there are some counters, the opponents just get don't them up most of the time. I have to admit however, that I am still kinda new to competitive pokemon battling, hence I hope you can help me to improve my team.

Let's reproduce:

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Weakness Table:

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A closer look:

Gogo (Ditto) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Imposter
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Transform
This guy is so versatile, if there is no other lead who can pull off some advantage, you can just throw him in, spy a little, and use your opponent to your advantage. If you sometimes find yourself cornered with a beefy buffed enemy who would clean the hell out of you, you can just throw this boy in, and completely turn the situation. He always works out. If you are lucky, you can even sweep with him, given the opponent doesn't pay attention when he sets up to skyscraper levels...

Fat Mosquito (Musharna) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Synchronize
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Spd
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonlight
- Heal Bell
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
If the opponent is not aware of this man, and forgot to bring any hinder/ and or dark, you probably go 6-0 easily without even fighting. It is so funny if the opponent toxics you, just to see himself covered in toxic, while you get yours off next round, and probably erase some other things as well. After 2 Calm Minds, Stored Power is stronger than Psychic, and she can pull that off most times. A Musharna sweep is nice, and you can have that easily with her.

Sub-Zero (Sawk) (M) @ Expert Belt
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Stone Edge
Sometimes a lead, sometimes a cleaner, sometimes a sweeper. I don't really like being locked into just one attack, so I prefer the Expert Belt on him, since his Coverage is very fine anyways. With a little luck / and clever playing you can get the opponent to think that you are scarfed, and then wreck one in the right moment. The Sturdy gets easily broken by hazards, and then the boy is kind of fragile, but he almost always takes out at least one.

Shah (Skuntank) (M) @ Black Sludge
Trait: Aftermath
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Pursuit
- Rest (Haze?)
- Sucker Punch
- Taunt
This is a pretty standart Skuntank Set I think. I wanted to have some utility on one of mine, so I chose Pursuit, Sucker Punch and Taunt. But after I had tried out poison jab for a while, I found I was barely using it, and so switched to Rest. It kind of worked fine with Heal Bell, but Haze did well too. I stayed with Rest, since Haze kinda destroyed the synergy with Ditto, but im still not entirely sure about this one.

Mr. No-Scarf (Braviary) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Defiant
EVs: 252 SDef / 248 HP / 8 Atk
Careful Nature
- Brave Bird
- Bulk Up
- Roost
- Substitute
This guy is another Tank of massive firepower. Even if he just goes in one round for an effective move, he usually takes out one. With substitute, he avoids status, which allows for one free bulk up. If he can get up one more bulk up, most moves dont really touch him anymore, and he is ready to wreak havoc!

Profit Bird (Altaria) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Def
Careful Nature
- Cotton Guard
- Roost
- Dragon Rush
- Toxic
Last, but not least: My profitable Bird, Altaria! Besides Ice-Moves, there's barely a thing to touch her after one cotton guard. Along with toxic and Dragon Rush, she allows for a nice slow kill, and Roost just gets her to stay longer. I wanted to replace her in the first place, but I didn't find a thing capable of replacing her yet...

Final Thoughts: I don't have hazards on my team, but if Ditto is not able to set any up, it didn't hurt either most times. I have a marginally SR weakness, but it didn't bother me enough to put effort into a rapid spinner. Also, Piloswine can become a real problem if I don't stop him with sawk, since he kinda destroys everything else...

(Sorry for my english, I don't speak it as mother language.)

To import:

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Thank you guys in advance for reviewing :)

WhiteDMist · Feb 17th, 2013, 12:24:02 PM

Your team seems standard, but you have put some odd twists to their sets. Unfortunately, not all of these twists are very effective. To start from the top, I already see problems that should be addressed quickly.

Leaving Ditto aside until the rest of your team is addressed, Musharna prefers Psychic over Stored Power. You must remember that it is easy to slow down its set up with Taunt and Trick (standard responses to Musharna) and if that is the case, Stored Power becomes laughably weak. Psychic's power stays consistently powerful the entire battle, so if you are unable to boost at any time, you won't become set up bait quite so easily. Don't say that it is easy to set up when Skuntank roams around often, since Pursuit puts you in a terrbile bind once they find out you lack Signal Beam/HP Ground.

If you want to switch up moves with Sawk, then you might as well just use Mold Breaker as the ability. Sturdy is the most useful for the Scarf set to guarantee most revenge kills. With EBelt, Mold Breaker becomes quite useful for allowing you to bluff the Choice Band set and actually deter set up from the likes of Golem and Carracosta (you'll never OHKO standard Regirock even with a Choice Band). Then you can easily go for the surprise switch of move. Also, Stone Edge isn't quite necessary except for Charizard. You still lack a way to handle opposing Musharna reliably, since most of them have another Psychic/Ghost as a lure for Skuntank. Knock Off or Toxic would be quite suitable for weaken both Musharna and other physical walls like Alomomola.

Your Skuntank set isn't standard at all. Skuntank can hardly afford to use Rest, even with Musharna as a Heal Bell user. I would personally give it either Poison Jab or Crunch so that it actually has a reliable STAB move to damage the opponent. Investing in HP does make your overall bulky greater, but it may be more prudent to specialize in Special Defense since it has such high HP naturally anyways. You should save enough EVs to invest in enough Speed as well, to prevent the likes of Misdreavus from crippling you with Will-O-Wisp (forcing you to have to Rest and switch out).

Braviary is way too slow with your EV spread. A spread of 252 HP / 192 SpD / 64 Spe is more efficient, preventing the likes of Modest Exeggutor, Ampharos, and Adamant Torterra from taking you down a notch. It also means that you have 101 Subs to prevent Seismic Toss Miltank from breaking your Subs in one hit.

Altaria is the odd man out on your offensively minded team, since it completely slows you down. A Choice Specs set is much more fitting for your type of team, with the power to break down whole teams on ts own. Cotton Guard isn't that effective anyways since it not only invites critical hits, but does nothing for status. You would easily be forced to switch out if you were Toxiced or Burned.

However, I still find that you can afford to remove either Braviary or Altaria for something to set up Stealth Rock. This is a necessity for a team like yours, where you need to get the KOs as soon as possible. Stealth Rock alone can turn the tide if you are facing Charizard or Articuno, who can easily sweep your team once Musharna is weaked just a little. In fact, Flying-types in general laugh at your whole team. I find Metang works well to cover most Flyers and set up Rocks reliably to handle Charizard. Ice-types are immediately threatened by Meteor Mash, and you gain a secondary check to Musharna if Skuntank ever fails (which happens a bit too often for my liking). For me, I think that Altaria is the Pokemon to replace, but I guess that is up to you which bird to change.

Finally, Ditto could use a little guidance. It is the IVs that truly matter, since you want to control the Hidden Power typing. For your overall team, I find that you are most weak to Water-types (with Fire close behind). So I offer you a choice of two possible Hidden Powers which will help your team: Hidden Power Grass or Hidden Power Electric. Most users of Hidden Power team to be Water-types (like Samurott and Gorebyss) so these choices can mean the difference between you getting to revenge kill them, or hitting them with a Hydro Pump out of desperation. Grass is generally useful, but easily resisted (and makes Mantine and Charizard laugh at you). Electric hits almost as many types, but gives Seismitoad a chance to set up. This choice is yours of course, so pick whatever seems to work most often.

Changes:

Musharna: Psychic>Stored Power
Sawk: Mold Breaker>Sturdy; Knock Off/Toxic>Stone Edge
Skuntank: Special Defense>HP; Poison Jab>Rest
Braviary: 252 HP / 192 SpD / 64 Spe
Ditto: HP Grass/Electric
Metang>Altaria -OR-Specs Altaria>Cotton Guard Altaria

Sets

ium · Feb 17th, 2013, 12:34:14 PM

musharna / ditto / sawk / skuntank / altaria / braviary

there is a possible major weaknesses here—you have no resistances to normal- and flying-type attacks. your team is prone to getting worn down by any offense involving a really common core of normal-types, sometimes with sawk. musharna is likely to be worn down while the rest of your team cannot switch in safely. in addition, you really need stealth rock, because the occasional team carrying charizard or articuno can really cause some trouble too, and residual damage is always nice so that the opponent can't switch around freely.

i think that altaria is the most expendable team member. it doesn't provide anything to the team as a whole when it can't do anything around toxic users that keep it from setting up, and it can't really capitalize on its resistances and special defense when it carries a weakness to ice-type attacks, which most water-types carry. therefore, i believe that running a golem in its place would be helpful. it basically covers a majority of the things i listed before, which takes a lot of the pressure off musharna. it sets up stealth rock, checks normal- and flying-types, and provides an electric-type immunity that prevents volt switch users from giving the opponent's team momentum.

as for the minor moveset changes, you may want to consider using psychic over stored power. it's true that musharna can set up rather easily against some pokemon, but you sometimes need the immediate power that psychic provides (especially against more offensive teams), and psychic is usually powerful enough already when boosted. skuntank should also run poison jab over rest as its other moves aren't reliable to keep using, and it needs 44 spe to outspeed standard misdreavus. sawk should also run a jolly nature since it wants to outspeed pokemon like braviary and gardevoir; it can also consider using toxic or taunt over stone edge to lure out common checks and nail them with status, but this is optional. finally, braviary wants max hp for a 101 hp substitute; the optimal spread here is 252 hp / 240 sdef / 16 spe.

summary:
psychic ~~stored power~~ musharna / ditto / jolly, toxic or taunt ~~adamant, stone edge~~ sawk / 44 spe, poison jab ~~rest~~ skuntank / golem ~~altaria~~ / 252 hp / 240 sdef / 16 spe braviary

Golem @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 56 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Rock Blast
- Earthquake
- Sucker Punch

Nau · Feb 18th, 2013, 5:32:50 PM

First I want to thank you for your tips ^^ I tried them, all out, and here are my thoughts:

As I wanted to remove Altaria anyway, I was very happy when I got to your suggestions of replacements. I have tried them both out, and I am still not sure which one to use...this needs further testing.

For some reason, I typed my braviary set in a false way (probably I typed in the suggested one on Showdown), since when I checked afterwards, it already had 252 HP EV's. However, I increased the speed ones.

On Skuntank, I invested in SpD and replaced Rest with Poison Jab, which kinda worked out (I guess? He took more hits at least, still, the occassions in which I use poison jab are rare), just like the changes on Sawk did, it really does a great job now.

I changed from Psychic to Stored Power, but then it came to a duel against exactly the same set I had, and I was not able to pull off the lead like I was used to, and he crit me...bad luck I guess, but I think Musharnas SpA is way to low to even do moderate damage if unboosted? And what do you guys think about psyshock? Does the BP loss make up for the breaking of Calm Mind users?

When I get the time, I'll edit the OP, I want to thank you for now^^

Greets, Nau

ium · Feb 18th, 2013, 5:58:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Nau

And what do you guys think about psyshock? Does the BP loss make up for the breaking of Calm Mind users?

with psyshock, you have a much harder time getting through alomomola, because +6 psyshock does 56% to 66% damage to it. given how your team is structured, i'd probably keep psychic on musharna, since alomomola is a bit of a pain to a majority of your team. you can test psyshock if you want, but between pokemon like skuntank or metang (if you take whitedmist's suggestion), you don't really need it.

Feb 17th, 2013, 12:24:02 PM	#2
WhiteDMist If happy ever after did exist Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 513 I'm at a payphone!	Your team seems standard, but you have put some odd twists to their sets. Unfortunately, not all of these twists are very effective. To start from the top, I already see problems that should be addressed quickly. Leaving Ditto aside until the rest of your team is addressed, Musharna prefers Psychic over Stored Power. You must remember that it is easy to slow down its set up with Taunt and Trick (standard responses to Musharna) and if that is the case, Stored Power becomes laughably weak. Psychic's power stays consistently powerful the entire battle, so if you are unable to boost at any time, you won't become set up bait quite so easily. Don't say that it is easy to set up when Skuntank roams around often, since Pursuit puts you in a terrbile bind once they find out you lack Signal Beam/HP Ground. If you want to switch up moves with Sawk, then you might as well just use Mold Breaker as the ability. Sturdy is the most useful for the Scarf set to guarantee most revenge kills. With EBelt, Mold Breaker becomes quite useful for allowing you to bluff the Choice Band set and actually deter set up from the likes of Golem and Carracosta (you'll never OHKO standard Regirock even with a Choice Band). Then you can easily go for the surprise switch of move. Also, Stone Edge isn't quite necessary except for Charizard. You still lack a way to handle opposing Musharna reliably, since most of them have another Psychic/Ghost as a lure for Skuntank. Knock Off or Toxic would be quite suitable for weaken both Musharna and other physical walls like Alomomola. Your Skuntank set isn't standard at all. Skuntank can hardly afford to use Rest, even with Musharna as a Heal Bell user. I would personally give it either Poison Jab or Crunch so that it actually has a reliable STAB move to damage the opponent. Investing in HP does make your overall bulky greater, but it may be more prudent to specialize in Special Defense since it has such high HP naturally anyways. You should save enough EVs to invest in enough Speed as well, to prevent the likes of Misdreavus from crippling you with Will-O-Wisp (forcing you to have to Rest and switch out). Braviary is way too slow with your EV spread. A spread of 252 HP / 192 SpD / 64 Spe is more efficient, preventing the likes of Modest Exeggutor, Ampharos, and Adamant Torterra from taking you down a notch. It also means that you have 101 Subs to prevent Seismic Toss Miltank from breaking your Subs in one hit. Altaria is the odd man out on your offensively minded team, since it completely slows you down. A Choice Specs set is much more fitting for your type of team, with the power to break down whole teams on ts own. Cotton Guard isn't that effective anyways since it not only invites critical hits, but does nothing for status. You would easily be forced to switch out if you were Toxiced or Burned. However, I still find that you can afford to remove either Braviary or Altaria for something to set up Stealth Rock. This is a necessity for a team like yours, where you need to get the KOs as soon as possible. Stealth Rock alone can turn the tide if you are facing Charizard or Articuno, who can easily sweep your team once Musharna is weaked just a little. In fact, Flying-types in general laugh at your whole team. I find Metang works well to cover most Flyers and set up Rocks reliably to handle Charizard. Ice-types are immediately threatened by Meteor Mash, and you gain a secondary check to Musharna if Skuntank ever fails (which happens a bit too often for my liking). For me, I think that Altaria is the Pokemon to replace, but I guess that is up to you which bird to change. Finally, Ditto could use a little guidance. It is the IVs that truly matter, since you want to control the Hidden Power typing. For your overall team, I find that you are most weak to Water-types (with Fire close behind). So I offer you a choice of two possible Hidden Powers which will help your team: Hidden Power Grass or Hidden Power Electric. Most users of Hidden Power team to be Water-types (like Samurott and Gorebyss) so these choices can mean the difference between you getting to revenge kill them, or hitting them with a Hydro Pump out of desperation. Grass is generally useful, but easily resisted (and makes Mantine and Charizard laugh at you). Electric hits almost as many types, but gives Seismitoad a chance to set up. This choice is yours of course, so pick whatever seems to work most often. Changes: Musharna: Psychic>Stored Power Sawk: Mold Breaker>Sturdy; Knock Off/Toxic>Stone Edge Skuntank: Special Defense>HP; Poison Jab>Rest Braviary: 252 HP / 192 SpD / 64 Spe Ditto: HP Grass/Electric Metang>Altaria -OR-Specs Altaria>Cotton Guard Altaria Sets Skuntank @ Black Sludge Trait: Aftermath EVs: 252 Atk / 220 SpD / 36 Spe Adamant Nature - Sucker Punch - Pursuit - Poison Jab - Taunt Metang @ Eviolite Trait: Clear Body EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def Adamant Nature - Stealth Rock - Meteor Mash - Earthquake - Toxic __________________ Message me for NU RMT rates! PU: Pokemon Database The PU Viability Rankings PU- NU in NU PU Research Week Project PU

Feb 17th, 2013, 12:34:14 PM	#3
ium Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 455 Mentor	musharna / ditto / sawk / skuntank / altaria / braviary there is a possible major weaknesses here—you have no resistances to normal- and flying-type attacks. your team is prone to getting worn down by any offense involving a really common core of normal-types, sometimes with sawk. musharna is likely to be worn down while the rest of your team cannot switch in safely. in addition, you really need stealth rock, because the occasional team carrying charizard or articuno can really cause some trouble too, and residual damage is always nice so that the opponent can't switch around freely. i think that altaria is the most expendable team member. it doesn't provide anything to the team as a whole when it can't do anything around toxic users that keep it from setting up, and it can't really capitalize on its resistances and special defense when it carries a weakness to ice-type attacks, which most water-types carry. therefore, i believe that running a golem in its place would be helpful. it basically covers a majority of the things i listed before, which takes a lot of the pressure off musharna. it sets up stealth rock, checks normal- and flying-types, and provides an electric-type immunity that prevents volt switch users from giving the opponent's team momentum. as for the minor moveset changes, you may want to consider using psychic over stored power. it's true that musharna can set up rather easily against some pokemon, but you sometimes need the immediate power that psychic provides (especially against more offensive teams), and psychic is usually powerful enough already when boosted. skuntank should also run poison jab over rest as its other moves aren't reliable to keep using, and it needs 44 spe to outspeed standard misdreavus. sawk should also run a jolly nature since it wants to outspeed pokemon like braviary and gardevoir; it can also consider using toxic or taunt over stone edge to lure out common checks and nail them with status, but this is optional. finally, braviary wants max hp for a 101 hp substitute; the optimal spread here is 252 hp / 240 sdef / 16 spe. summary: psychic ~~stored power~~ musharna / ditto / jolly, toxic or taunt ~~adamant, stone edge~~ sawk / 44 spe, poison jab ~~rest~~ skuntank / golem ~~altaria~~ / 252 hp / 240 sdef / 16 spe braviary Golem @ Leftovers Trait: Sturdy EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 56 Spd Adamant Nature - Stealth Rock - Rock Blast - Earthquake - Sucker Punch Last edited by ium; Feb 19th, 2013 at 4:21:38 PM.

Feb 18th, 2013, 5:32:50 PM	#4
Nau Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 2	First I want to thank you for your tips ^^ I tried them, all out, and here are my thoughts: As I wanted to remove Altaria anyway, I was very happy when I got to your suggestions of replacements. I have tried them both out, and I am still not sure which one to use...this needs further testing. For some reason, I typed my braviary set in a false way (probably I typed in the suggested one on Showdown), since when I checked afterwards, it already had 252 HP EV's. However, I increased the speed ones. On Skuntank, I invested in SpD and replaced Rest with Poison Jab, which kinda worked out (I guess? He took more hits at least, still, the occassions in which I use poison jab are rare), just like the changes on Sawk did, it really does a great job now. I changed from Psychic to Stored Power, but then it came to a duel against exactly the same set I had, and I was not able to pull off the lead like I was used to, and he crit me...bad luck I guess, but I think Musharnas SpA is way to low to even do moderate damage if unboosted? And what do you guys think about psyshock? Does the BP loss make up for the breaking of Calm Mind users? When I get the time, I'll edit the OP, I want to thank you for now^^ Greets, Nau