Cannonball

[Tobes]

Cannonball

AKA Crazy Sunshine 2.0

This is what I used for a good portion of Deoxys-D suspect, and it's quickly become my favorite BW2 team that I've made. It certainly feels like the most solid one. It's not an accomplished team (well it did get #1 on the suspect ladder but who really gives a fuck about that), but I feel it's the "best" team that I've made so far, and it has favorable match-ups against a lot of teams. Standard Tyranitar + 5 Offensive mons and no spinners teams pretty much auto-lose to this team when played correctly, and I feel it's very solid against just about everything else.

This team started off with adjustments to Crazy Sunshine. I had abandoned the team previously due to being unsatisfied with its performance against Tornadus-T. With Tornadus-T banned and Deoxys-D being suspected, I felt it was the perfect time to try to reignite the old spark with a set I had wanted to use for a while: Custap Berry Forretress. I don't remember why I switched to Venusaur from Lilligant to be quite honest, but I have yet to regret it. Venusaur is just so fucking good. There was a period where there were five static Pokemon on the team, and the sixth slot just kept changing because I couldn't find an appropriate answer to my weaknesses. I tried Scarf Garchomp, Specs Rotom-H, Sash Alakazam, all to ultimately disappointing effect. Then I saw Windsong's .dancin (it is almost purely coincidence that our teams have four Pokemon in common I swear) and saw Cresselia. Later when I was reviewing the team and assessing its weaknesses, everything just clicked and I realized Cresselia was the answer. Ironically I would wind up with the exact same moveset as Windsong, because it covered the weaknesses I wanted it to cover perfectly. Cresselia has been doing serious work for this team, and its addition is what convinced me after consistent play that this was definitely a "good" team. Thanks Windsong!

That said this isn't a team you can just pick up and use. It takes practice and a practical assessment of threats, and a very thorough understanding of all the subtle interactions within the team itself and how it reacts to specific threats that I don't think can be easily grasped without putting some time into playing it (I could be exaggerating though). If it works for you then excellent, by all means use it!


Ninetales @ Leftovers
Drought
Calm 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
-Flamethrower
-Roar
-Rest
-Sleep Talk

This is probably a bit of a surprise, huh? I came to the conclusion that offensive Sunny Day Ninetales sucks in this metagame, so I switched back to specially defensive. After a while I noticed that Ninetales’s lack of longevity could be a problem, and also noticed that I was coming to depend on Roar from Ninetales to deal with CM Substitute Latias and Hidden Power Ground-less Volcarona. This, in conjunction with how annoying Breloom could be, made me decide to try out Restalk. I had used Rest by itself before solely to give me more shots at reintroducing sun even in the face of opposing hazards, but hadn’t used Sleep Talk alongside it. (This is legal in BW2 btw in case anyone was wondering about that) It’s been working fairly well, and greatly increases Ninetales’s odds of living throughout the game to keep sunlight up. I mean it’s not like Ninetales is really good for anything else lol


Forretress @ Custap Berry
Sturdy
Careful 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
-Stealth Rock
-Spikes
-Toxic
-Rapid Spin

A bit of a different take on Forretress, this set has contributed greatly to the team’s success. It functions quite similarly to Deoxys-D, with its primary goals being to set up Stealth Rock and Spikes in the beginning of the game. Consequently, Forretress is often the first member of the team to die. The way the set usually works is that it sets Stealth Rock on the first turn while the opponent uses something that brings it down to 1 HP after Sturdy. After that Custap Berry will activate, and Forretress should get a layer of Spikes up before dying. Custap Berry is useful in other situations as well; for example, Forretress can Toxic a Volcarona, and even if that Volcarona is Lum Berry, Forretress can just get Toxic off again before dying. Toxic has been very useful against various threats, such as Hippowdon, Jellicent, and Latias. There have been quite a few games where I would have lost without it, although I do sometimes miss Gyro Ball, which I used to run over it. (Mostly I miss it against Terrakion, Azelf, and Espeon) Rapid Spin isn’t used much except against Hippowdon teams, where there is usually much less pressure on Forretress, or against lead Terrakion. There are times when Stealth Rock is very annoying (usually when Ninetales or Chandelure are low on HP, or I need Dugtrio’s Focus Sash intact), but I’m leaning towards putting Gyro Ball back on Forretress in place of Rapid Spin.


Chandelure @ Choice Scarf
Flash Fire
Timid 252 SAtk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
-Fire Blast
-Shadow Ball
-Hidden Power [Ice]
-Trick

Chandelure is actually probably the most integral member of this team, because it just does so much. Its primary role is of course spin-blocking; the team isn’t nearly as effective with no hazards. Chandelure in sun is very hard for most spinners to get through. Forretress obviously wants nothing to do with it, and Starmie is outsped and OHKOed by Shadow Ball (or Fire Blast in sun if it’s offensive Starmie and Stealth Rock + Spikes is up!). Tentacruel is the only thing that stands a chance, and even then it takes a fair amount from Shadow Ball, and is ultimately embarking on a fruitless suicide mission if it tries to press the point of going toe-to-toe with Chandelure. Chandelure might die, sure, but Tentacruel won’t have gotten the spin off and will be sufficiently weakened so that Dugtrio can outspeed and OHKO with Earthquake, keeping the hazards safely intact. Chandelure is also excellent Pursuit-bait, making it very easy to snare Tyranitar with Dugtrio. Chandelure additionally acts as a revenge-killer, dispatching dangerous threats like DDNite and SD Garchomp with Hidden Power Ice, Lati@s with Shadow Ball, and Breloom, Scizor, Mamoswine, and Weavile with Fire Blast. Finally, Chandelure is an excellent lategame cleaner due to the raw power of sun-boosted Fire Blast, and it very conveniently meshes with Venusaur offensively; Chandelure can easily dispose of the threats that Venusaur wouldn’t be able to get through, while the likes of Keldeo and Terrakion are a free meal for Venusaur. Trick is the only move I’m a bit reluctant about, but it’s pretty much my only answer to Shed Shell Heatran and can create some opportunities for Venusaur to set up.


Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
Arena Trap
Jolly 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 21 HP
-Earthquake
-Reversal
-Memento
-Substitute

There isn’t much to say about Dugtrio really. Everyone should be familiar with how it works by now. On this team its primary goal is to eliminate Heatran and Tyranitar, as well as assist Chandelure in preventing Tentacruel from ever getting a Rapid Spin off successfully. Dugtrio does wind up performing handyman duties though, usually in the form of sniping the likes of Terrakion or Magnezone, or wearing down a Toxic’d opponent by spamming Substitute. My favorite use of it on this team, though, is Memento. Memento is a move I love on Dugtrio, but don’t often get to play around with since I usually need to use Stealth Rock in that moveslot. Here, Memento creates set-up opportunities for Venusaur that normally would not exist, and if the game has been played out properly this is often enough to win by itself by the time that happens. It can also give Ninetales a chance to get off a Rest in some cases, giving me a chance to keep sun in the game where I might not otherwise have a chance at it.


Cresselia @Leftovers
Levitate
Calm 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
-Ice Beam
-Hidden Power [Fire]
-Toxic
-Moonlight

For a while I had felt that this had merely been an “ok” team and one I was not particularly enthused about; this was mostly due to weaknesses to the likes of Lati@s, Landorus, Landorus-T, etc. I had been running Focus Sash Alakazam in an attempt to remedy all of these problems a little bit, but it wasn’t enough. Then I saw Windsong’s RMT, and Cresselia. Ironically I didn’t initially take his set; I actually came to the conclusion that his were the exact same moves I needed piece-by-piece from the ground up, based on what had been consistently plaguing me: Ice Beam hits Landorus, Dragonite, Landorus-T, etc., Toxic cripples Latias and Volcarona; Moonlight allows Cresselia to consistently check Latios (I opted for specially defensive Cresselia specifically to allow it to live two Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteors after Stealth Rock, and to combat rain a bit better). Really the only move that I feel comfortable with changing is Hidden Power Fire; it has come in handy against Scizor, Ferrothorn, Forretress, etc., and for the most part the move does what it needs to. It felt natural since most of the threats I feel would be covered by a Psychic-STAB are more than sufficiently handled by either Toxic + Moonlight or sun-boosted Hidden Power Fire. Perhaps Reflect could go over it; it would very easily fit into the sub-theme of “try to set up Venusaur and shit on everything”.


Venusaur @ Life Orb
Chlorophyll
Timid 72 HP / 252 SAtk / 184 Spe
-Giga Drain
-Sludge Bomb
-Hidden Power [Fire]
-Growth

The team’s primary win condition. Venusaur is just an utter juggernaut in the lategame; if it can get set up and have its few obstacles removed, it is nigh impossible to stop a full sweep; even Life Orb recoil isn’t going to cut the rampage short due to Giga Drain’s recovery. By lategame the two biggest obstructions to Venusaur (opposing weather and Heatran) should be out of the picture; and the other Pokemon that can put a stop to Vensuaur (Mamoswine, Latias, Scizor if Venusaur is weakened enough, etc.) mostly get stomped by Chandelure or are just flat-out walled by Cresselia. Really it’s hard to convey how much of a runaway train Venusaur can become. You really just have to steamroll a few teams with it before you can understand just how fucking scary this thing is. Timid and EVs ensure you get the jump on Scarf Latios and below, and I think I also have a point or two of Speed creep just to get ahead of other similar Venusaurs.

Threats:

: My plan A is to get up Stealth Rock with Forretress as it Quiver Dances, switch to Ninetales, and then Roar it out. If that doesn't work, my plan B is to Toxic it with Forretress and revenge kill it with Dugtrio. There is no plan C.
: Can be very difficult to kill; usually you want to Toxic it as soon as possible and work from there.
: Annoying for Forretress, but they do give Chandelure a chance to throw out attacks.
(Shed Shell): I can't really touch this except by wearing it down with hazards and Tricking Chandelure's Scarf onto it.
: Haven't seen this in a long-ass time, but Waterfall / Bounce / Taunt / DD could probably fuck me up.

[Superpowerdude]

hey Tobes nice team!

This team looks quite solid and I love the use of Chandelure. Due to sun teams almost being limited to having Ninetales, Dugtrio, Spinner, Sun Sweeper, filler, filler I won't be suggesting any Pokemon changes and only a real minor change which could help you against Volcarona and possibly Gyarados and Xatu too who you mentioned were threats to your team.

Using Stone Edge>Substitute could be worth a try on Dugtrio so you can ohko Volcarona. With Focus Sash intact Dugtrio can safely revenge kill Volcarona regardless of its speed boosts. It also hits Gyarados and Xatu super effectively for what its worth. Substitute is pretty cool to help stall out Toxic damage however it does break Dugtrio's Focus Sash and with its fraility and lack of recovery I think you could drop it for Stone Edge.

Good luck I hope I helped and Luvdisc'd

TL;DR

...

---

Dugtrio
.Substitute--->Stone Edge

~Superpowerdude

[CedOmega]

Hey Tobes, you have a very cool team here. Luvdisc'd, btw. Cresselia FTW!!

That said, I want to point out, as a common user of Volcarona(Here I go again with this moth), I can see that you do have an effective plan C for handling it. First Chandelure can come in on it while it goes for QD & Trick its Scarf away. Volcarona will have no choice but to attack from there(Often BugBuzz). This is where Ninetales can come in and Roar it away, that being if it doesn't switch out. This may or may not mean losing Chandelure depending on whether you want Ninetales to take switch in damage, but I think we can agree that avoiding a sweep is more important than that.

Anyways, I do have some suggestions for your team. So, the first would be to replace Substitute on Dugtrio for something like SuckerPunch or StoneEdge. I'd suggest SuckerPunch if Pokémon such as Latios & Latias pose a threat, hitting both for SE damage. While also occasionally revenging weakened set up sweepers. StoneEdge could help against your Volc weakness too, as well as providing Dugtrio with the notorious EdgeQuake coverage. This, too, may(not guaranteed) help deal with Gyarados, to an extent. Honestly, Substitute just seems out of place to me here, breaking Dugtrio's Sash and actually hindering it's item's use.
Next, I'd suggest using RestChesto Ninetales, as opposed to RestTalk. This allows Ninetales to use a spread of Flamethrower, Will-o'-wisp/Roar, SunnyDay & Rest. This set has done very well for me in winning Weather Wars and supporting the team a bit better.

So anyways, that's about all I cah see that could help for now. Good luck with the team! :)

[DarkBlazeR]

Hi :)

So as you've said yourself, this team matches up well with most the common teams in the current metagame. As somewhat of a seasoned sun player myself, I can see that this as excellent build. However, one thing that I do notice about this team is that it is pretty much totally dependant on having sunlight up. If Ninetales somehow dies prematurely, you will almost always lose. Fortunately, this is a pretty rare scenario since with Forretress getting hazards up early, Ninetales healing itself with Rest and Dugtrio trapping certain threats, you're in a pretty comfortable position for controlling the weather most of the time.

Rain offense with Dugtrio support could be troublesome though. It's much less common than it used to be, but is still a valid threat. Whilst you have many ways of playing around it, you have to be perfect with your prediction because you're screwed if Dugtrio double-switches into Ninetales. Although the loss of Leftovers will have some obvious side-effects, you may want to consider replacing it with Shed Shell to help you win the weather war versus such teams. At least you can heal it with Rest, so the Leftovers recovery may be missed less than that of a regular Ninetales.

As for Shed Shell Heatran - sadly it's pretty unbearable for this team, but I can propose a semi-solution that will somewhat help without changing your team's structure at all - by replacing HP Ice with HP Ground on Chandelure. It won't OHKO it, but it at least gives you something to hit it with outside of hazard damage alone. If you fit Reflect onto Cresselia, you'll still have a solid answer to those dragons you've mentioned (plus Chandelure can kill them Shadow Ball after they take some residual damage anyway).

Still, great team <3

[sebixxl]

Hey there, nice team.
Just a nitpick from my side:
try out stealth rocks over sub on dugtrio (then you may fiy the iv`s as well) to ensure at least rocks against magic bouncer since you may trap something different to set em up!

[Alexander.]

Hey Tobes cool team!

First of all, I'd go with Superpowerdude's suggestion to use Stone Edge replacing Substitute on Dugtrio because it would help you a lot against Volcarona, Gyarados and Xatu which are threats for your team, as you already said. With this simple change, you can revenge-kill Volcarona if Dugtrio's Focus Sash isn't broken with Stone Edge and you can hit hard Gyarados and Xatu too, even Substitute is a good option with the support of Toxic but in my opinion Stone Edge is more useful on your team.

If you decide to use Stone Edge on your Dugtrio, I'd use Shed Shell replacing Custap Berry on Forretress because it helps you a lot against DragMagn team, which are quite common nowadays, especially on the Ladder, since it allows to avoid Magnezone's Magnet Pull. Forretress is your only steel-types and it's really useful to tank Outrages, which Cresselia can't tank always since she's running a SDefense EV spread, from dragon-types which can be quite threatening for your current team if Magnezone traps and kills your Forretress.

After that, I'd try Reflech replacing Hidden Power Fire on Cresselia because it allows to tank physical hits better and since Cresselia is running a Special Defensive EV spread this can be really useful, even Hidden Power Fire is a nice move to hit hard Scizor, Ferrothorn, Forretress and the other steel-types but Reflect can be even a more useful move so you should try it in some battles and see how it works on your team, in my opinion.

As last thing, on Venusaur I suggest you to move 4 EVs from Speed to Defense because 180 EVs on Speed are enough to outspeed Choice Scarf Latios and Choice Scarf Latias so you don't need other EVs on Speed. 4 EVs on HP would help you to tank a little better priority moves such as Mamoswine's Ice Shard and Choice Band Scizor's Bullet Punch; 4 EVs on HP doesn't make a big differente but they can be useful in some battles, to survive to Ice Shard's Mamoswine with 1 HP and to kill it with Giga Drain, for example.

Good luck!

[gr8astard]

Hi Tobes,

this is a very interesting sun team. I especially like the use of an offensive spinblocker in Chandelure (which is a monster in the sun), as it forces Heatran or Tyranitar out for Dugtrio to trap. RestTalk Ninetales as a status absorber is also a neat idea, as is suicide lead Forretress, although I am usually paranoid about keeping my spinners alive when running sun.

As for changes, I don't see a possibility of changing any team members on the team, so I would mostly recommend some EV / set changes.

First of all on Ninetales, I would recommend you to speed creep things a little. I would go as far as putting 64 speed EVs on it to outspeed up to Jolly Superpower Scizor, which albeit rare can do work on your team once Chandelure is weakened. It also lets you outspeed adamant Breloom as well as random things like max speed Magnezone. Personally I would go with an EV spread of 248 HP / 20 Def / 176 SpDef / 64 Speed, where the SpDef hits a jump point and the additional defense EVs can help you take random physical hits better. However simply using 196 SpDef is also fine--I just imagine with a fully SpDef spread on Cresselia, Ninetales would just mostly be there to tank a hydro pump or two before going for rest.

Cresselia definitely walls a lot of relevant threats in the metagame, however I see Terrakion, especially subsalac variants as a huge threat to your team (and sun teams in general). It can just sub and start setting up on your Cresselia, and your only hope would be either playing mindgames with it by the use of sub Dugtrio (sub as it predicts you to break its sub and trying to get the salac activated), or letting Venusaur take a huge chunk of damage. I would recommend the use of Psychic on Cresselia solely for this reason. It also helps you deal with opposing Venusaur and Gengar, which can be quite an annoyance on your team.

Lastly, and I 'm pretty sure you knew this already, definitely keep the Venusaur EV spread--speed creeping is definitely more important than having an extra point or two in HP/Defense, which is very situational. It helps you speed creep things like bulky agility Thundurus-T, RP Landorus, or even opposing Venusaur, although I'm pleased to say that you have Cresselia as a check to all of them.

Once again great team, thanks for sharing it and good luck!

Edit: The Speed EVs on Ninetales is especially important if you decide to take on my suggestion of using psychic over hp fire on Cresselia. Otherwise Scizor can't really set up on anything, my bad.

[Jukain]

Hey there Tobes, nice team! I faced this a lot on the suspect ladder, and it was honestly the first time I've seen rain vs. sun be a bad match-up, so props for that. In any case Substitute Dugtrio is a total bitch to face, I wouldn't replace it for Stone Edge.

The only thing I would suggest is 252 Speed EVs on Venusaur, just in case you have a game come down to a Speed tie or something dumb like that.

Great team overall!

[Tobes]

Originally Posted by Fat Superpowerdude

hey Tobes nice team!

This team looks quite solid and I love the use of Chandelure. Due to sun teams almost being limited to having Ninetales, Dugtrio, Spinner, Sun Sweeper, filler, filler I won't be suggesting any Pokemon changes and only a real minor change which could help you against Volcarona and possibly Gyarados and Xatu too who you mentioned were threats to your team.

Using Stone Edge>Substitute could be worth a try on Dugtrio so you can ohko Volcarona. With Focus Sash intact Dugtrio can safely revenge kill Volcarona regardless of its speed boosts. It also hits Gyarados and Xatu super effectively for what its worth. Substitute is pretty cool to help stall out Toxic damage however it does break Dugtrio's Focus Sash and with its fraility and lack of recovery I think you could drop it for Stone Edge.

Good luck I hope I helped and Luvdisc'd

TL;DR

...

---

Dugtrio
.Substitute--->Stone Edge

~Superpowerdude

I'll consider this, but there have been times where Substituting down on a Toxic'd Politoed has won me the game. Substitute's use is admittedly rather limited beyond that; it's only good elsewise for ensuring Reversal numbers against Tyranitar and the blobs. Thanks for the input and Luvdisc.

Originally Posted by Fat CedOmega

Hey Tobes, you have a very cool team here. Luvdisc'd, btw. Cresselia FTW!!

That said, I want to point out, as a common user of Volcarona(Here I go again with this moth), I can see that you do have an effective plan C for handling it. First Chandelure can come in on it while it goes for QD & Trick its Scarf away. Volcarona will have no choice but to attack from there(Often BugBuzz). This is where Ninetales can come in and Roar it away, that being if it doesn't switch out. This may or may not mean losing Chandelure depending on whether you want Ninetales to take switch in damage, but I think we can agree that avoiding a sweep is more important than that.

Anyways, I do have some suggestions for your team. So, the first would be to replace Substitute on Dugtrio for something like SuckerPunch or StoneEdge. I'd suggest SuckerPunch if Pokémon such as Latios & Latias pose a threat, hitting both for SE damage. While also occasionally revenging weakened set up sweepers. StoneEdge could help against your Volc weakness too, as well as providing Dugtrio with the notorious EdgeQuake coverage. This, too, may(not guaranteed) help deal with Gyarados, to an extent. Honestly, Substitute just seems out of place to me here, breaking Dugtrio's Sash and actually hindering it's item's use.
Next, I'd suggest using RestChesto Ninetales, as opposed to RestTalk. This allows Ninetales to use a spread of Flamethrower, Will-o'-wisp/Roar, SunnyDay & Rest. This set has done very well for me in winning Weather Wars and supporting the team a bit better.

So anyways, that's about all I cah see that could help for now. Good luck with the team! :)

Tricking Chandelure's Scarf onto Volcarona is usually not worth it. For one, +1 Volcarona with Hidden Power Ground will just straight-up OHKO me before I can move. For another, even with Special Defense boosts, sun-boosted Fire Blast still does a shitload to Volcarona (example: 45% against a +2/+2 offensive Volc.)

Lati@s pose almost literally 0 threat to this team because of Cresselia and Ninetales in the case of SubCM Latias. And EdgeQuake doesn't really mean jack on Dugtrio because it's so weak lol. As for Chesto Rest, using that means I would have to both give up Leftovers recovery and the ability to react while Ninetales is asleep, and I don't see Wisp or Sunny Day as strong enough incentives for that. Thanks for the input.

Originally Posted by Fat DarkBlazeR

Hi :)

So as you've said yourself, this team matches up well with most the common teams in the current metagame. As somewhat of a seasoned sun player myself, I can see that this as excellent build. However, one thing that I do notice about this team is that it is pretty much totally dependant on having sunlight up. If Ninetales somehow dies prematurely, you will almost always lose. Fortunately, this is a pretty rare scenario since with Forretress getting hazards up early, Ninetales healing itself with Rest and Dugtrio trapping certain threats, you're in a pretty comfortable position for controlling the weather most of the time.

Rain offense with Dugtrio support could be troublesome though. It's much less common than it used to be, but is still a valid threat. Whilst you have many ways of playing around it, you have to be perfect with your prediction because you're screwed if Dugtrio double-switches into Ninetales. Although the loss of Leftovers will have some obvious side-effects, you may want to consider replacing it with Shed Shell to help you win the weather war versus such teams. At least you can heal it with Rest, so the Leftovers recovery may be missed less than that of a regular Ninetales.

As for Shed Shell Heatran - sadly it's pretty unbearable for this team, but I can propose a semi-solution that will somewhat help without changing your team's structure at all - by replacing HP Ice with HP Ground on Chandelure. It won't OHKO it, but it at least gives you something to hit it with outside of hazard damage alone. If you fit Reflect onto Cresselia, you'll still have a solid answer to those dragons you've mentioned (plus Chandelure can kill them Shadow Ball after they take some residual damage anyway).

Still, great team <3

Hmm I might have to try Shed Shell. The loss of Leftovers will be very annoying but you bring up a valid point. As for Hidden Power Ground, I'm very hesitant to go for it since Hidden Power Ice has been very helpful against Dragonite and Garchomp. Reflect Cresselia might make this worth trying though (I'd have to tweak Cressy's EV spread first though), and as an added benefit I could start running Flamethrower over Trick (although that does open me up to Flamethrower Blissey I guess lol). Thanks for the suggestions!

Originally Posted by Fat sebixxl

Hey there, nice team.
Just a nitpick from my side:
try out stealth rocks over sub on dugtrio (then you may fiy the iv`s as well) to ensure at least rocks against magic bouncer since you may trap something different to set em up!

I like this. Reminds me of a WCOP game where I managed to get Stealth Rock up against BP because I managed to double switch Dugtrio into Mew.I might try it out, thanks!

Originally Posted by Fat Alexander.

Hey Tobes cool team!

First of all, I'd go with Superpowerdude's suggestion to use Stone Edge replacing Substitute on Dugtrio because it would help you a lot against Volcarona, Gyarados and Xatu which are threats for your team, as you already said. With this simple change, you can revenge-kill Volcarona if Dugtrio's Focus Sash isn't broken with Stone Edge and you can hit hard Gyarados and Xatu too, even Substitute is a good option with the support of Toxic but in my opinion Stone Edge is more useful on your team.

If you decide to use Stone Edge on your Dugtrio, I'd use Shed Shell replacing Custap Berry on Forretress because it helps you a lot against DragMagn team, which are quite common nowadays, especially on the Ladder, since it allows to avoid Magnezone's Magnet Pull. Forretress is your only steel-types and it's really useful to tank Outrages, which Cresselia can't tank always since she's running a SDefense EV spread, from dragon-types which can be quite threatening for your current team if Magnezone traps and kills your Forretress.

After that, I'd try Reflech replacing Hidden Power Fire on Cresselia because it allows to tank physical hits better and since Cresselia is running a Special Defensive EV spread this can be really useful, even Hidden Power Fire is a nice move to hit hard Scizor, Ferrothorn, Forretress and the other steel-types but Reflect can be even a more useful move so you should try it in some battles and see how it works on your team, in my opinion.

As last thing, on Venusaur I suggest you to move 4 EVs from Speed to Defense because 180 EVs on Speed are enough to outspeed Choice Scarf Latios and Choice Scarf Latias so you don't need other EVs on Speed. 4 EVs on HP would help you to tank a little better priority moves such as Mamoswine's Ice Shard and Choice Band Scizor's Bullet Punch; 4 EVs on HP doesn't make a big differente but they can be useful in some battles, to survive to Ice Shard's Mamoswine with 1 HP and to kill it with Giga Drain, for example.

Good luck!

Uh I don't think you get how Forretress works on this team. If I can sac Forretress to Magnezone to get up SR + Spikes I'll gladly do so, because it means after I snipe Magnezone with Dugtrio it'll be 5-5 with a severe hazards advantage. Forretress is not a defensive pivot on this team. It's a suicide lead.

I've been giving strong consideration to Reflect for a few days now so I think I'll give it a shot due to the feedback suggestions on it.

As gr8astard mentions below, the chance to Speed creep other Venusaur is more than worth a few inconsequential points in Defense.

Originally Posted by Fat gr8astard

Hi Tobes,

this is a very interesting sun team. I especially like the use of an offensive spinblocker in Chandelure (which is a monster in the sun), as it forces Heatran or Tyranitar out for Dugtrio to trap. RestTalk Ninetales as a status absorber is also a neat idea, as is suicide lead Forretress, although I am usually paranoid about keeping my spinners alive when running sun.

As for changes, I don't see a possibility of changing any team members on the team, so I would mostly recommend some EV / set changes.

First of all on Ninetales, I would recommend you to speed creep things a little. I would go as far as putting 64 speed EVs on it to outspeed up to Jolly Superpower Scizor, which albeit rare can do work on your team once Chandelure is weakened. It also lets you outspeed adamant Breloom as well as random things like max speed Magnezone. Personally I would go with an EV spread of 248 HP / 20 Def / 176 SpDef / 64 Speed, where the SpDef hits a jump point and the additional defense EVs can help you take random physical hits better. However simply using 196 SpDef is also fine--I just imagine with a fully SpDef spread on Cresselia, Ninetales would just mostly be there to tank a hydro pump or two before going for rest.

Cresselia definitely walls a lot of relevant threats in the metagame, however I see Terrakion, especially subsalac variants as a huge threat to your team (and sun teams in general). It can just sub and start setting up on your Cresselia, and your only hope would be either playing mindgames with it by the use of sub Dugtrio (sub as it predicts you to break its sub and trying to get the salac activated), or letting Venusaur take a huge chunk of damage. I would recommend the use of Psychic on Cresselia solely for this reason. It also helps you deal with opposing Venusaur and Gengar, which can be quite an annoyance on your team.

Lastly, and I 'm pretty sure you knew this already, definitely keep the Venusaur EV spread--speed creeping is definitely more important than having an extra point or two in HP/Defense, which is very situational. It helps you speed creep things like bulky agility Thundurus-T, RP Landorus, or even opposing Venusaur, although I'm pleased to say that you have Cresselia as a check to all of them.

Once again great team, thanks for sharing it and good luck!

Edit: The Speed EVs on Ninetales is especially important if you decide to take on my suggestion of using psychic over hp fire on Cresselia. Otherwise Scizor can't really set up on anything, my bad.

I quite like your suggested Ninetales EV spread, thank you. As for Terrakion, I've never really had problems with it. Between Dugtrio and Venusaur I feel I can sufficiently deal with it, but if I ever feel I'm having troubles with it I'll definitely give Psyshock or Psychic a try. Thanks!

Originally Posted by Fat pokemon0078

Hey there Tobes, nice team! I faced this a lot on the suspect ladder, and it was honestly the first time I've seen rain vs. sun be a bad match-up, so props for that. In any case Substitute Dugtrio is a total bitch to face, I wouldn't replace it for Stone Edge.

The only thing I would suggest is 252 Speed EVs on Venusaur, just in case you have a game come down to a Speed tie or something dumb like that.

Great team overall!

Although I'm not too picky about a handful of EVs, the bulk Venusaur has now is definitely important enough that I don't want to shift it to Speed. That bulk makes setting up far, far easier (especially when backed by Memento), and also gives me a better shot at surviving random priority. Thanks for the suggestion though.

[Cherub Agent]

Tobes I've been fooling around with your team a bit, and it really is fantastic. One thing that you may want to try out though is changing Forretress around a bit. IMO physically defensive Forry is far more useful in the current meta, but to each his own. However, have you considered running an offensive Forretress? I used Adamant with max HP and Atk, with Earthquake and Explosion over Rapid Spin and Toxic. Earthquake is really only for Heatran and Terrakion, but can also be replaced with Gyro Ball for a more consistent strongmove, or just keep Rapid Spin. Explosion is immensely cool though coming off max attack and Custap berry, as it lures out both spinners and Politoed, and cripples them to the point where dugtrio can just snipe them off.

[Cygnis]

Sup Tobes,

Try Stealth Rock over Substitute on Dugtrio, when you have nothing to do and his focus sash isn't activated yet, this could be nice for support. Substitute can't activate with sash and after the Substitute you have nothing to do behing the Sub but Earthquake (Flying-types don't give a crap). I have tried using 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SDef IVs with Naive Nature so the Sash activates all the time and Bullet Punch and Mach Punch OHKO you anyways so the extra bulk doesn't do crap. Move the 4 SDef to SAtk if you want too. I find it much more helpful. Also for Dugtrio, you can use Rock Slide / Stone Edge if you want to check Volcarona better. It also helps with Gyarados. Speed Boost Sharpedo also seems annoying because it is usually found on HO Stack teams and H-Pump OHKOs Forretress in rain so it won't spinnning away them for Dugtrio to revenge kill but luckily you got Deoxys-D leaving soon so it really doesn't matter.

Nitpicks

• Substitute ===> Stealth Rock / Rock Slide / Stone Edge
  
• 21 HP ===> 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SDef Naive Nature

Cool Team!

[Tobes]

Originally Posted by Fat Cherub Agent

Tobes I've been fooling around with your team a bit, and it really is fantastic. One thing that you may want to try out though is changing Forretress around a bit. IMO physically defensive Forry is far more useful in the current meta, but to each his own. However, have you considered running an offensive Forretress? I used Adamant with max HP and Atk, with Earthquake and Explosion over Rapid Spin and Toxic. Earthquake is really only for Heatran and Terrakion, but can also be replaced with Gyro Ball for a more consistent strongmove, or just keep Rapid Spin. Explosion is immensely cool though coming off max attack and Custap berry, as it lures out both spinners and Politoed, and cripples them to the point where dugtrio can just snipe them off.

I had used max Attack Admant Gyro Ball before, but I hadn't given as much thought to Explosion. It does sound appealing, since using it against Politoed or as an "ohshit" button against Volcarona could both be very valuable. Earthquake doesn't appeal to me but I might try it if Shed Shell Heatran pops up again. I'm also considering Volt Switch for various reasons.

Originally Posted by Fat Cygnis

Sup Tobes,

Try Stealth Rock over Substitute on Dugtrio, when you have nothing to do and his focus sash isn't activated yet, this could be nice for support. Substitute can't activate with sash and after the Substitute you have nothing to do behing the Sub but Earthquake (Flying-types don't give a crap). I have tried using 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SDef IVs with Naive Nature so the Sash activates all the time and Bullet Punch and Mach Punch OHKO you anyways so the extra bulk doesn't do crap. Move the 4 SDef to SAtk if you want too. I find it much more helpful. Also for Dugtrio, you can use Rock Slide / Stone Edge if you want to check Volcarona better. It also helps with Gyarados. Speed Boost Sharpedo also seems annoying because it is usually found on HO Stack teams and H-Pump OHKOs Forretress in rain so it won't spinnning away them for Dugtrio to revenge kill but luckily you got Deoxys-D leaving soon so it really doesn't matter.

Nitpicks

• Substitute ===> Stealth Rock / Rock Slide / Stone Edge
  
• 21 HP ===> 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SDef Naive Nature

Cool Team!

As already said I'd only really consider switching Substitute for Stealth Rock. As for the IV suggestions, no. I've explained this in Crazy Sunshine before, I just don't find it worth it. For example, Magnezone's Flash Cannon now OHKOes you after Stealth Rock, so you can't switch into it, and Terrakion's Stone Edge OHKOes after SR too iirc. While not being OHKOed by Scarf Rakion's Stone Edge isn't nearly as important on this team, I still value being able to Memento against it. Thanks for the suggestions.

[Zeta5]

I really like the look of this team, it has its own sense of OU unlike the mindless random lower tier pokemon teams but keeps its sense of creativity. Great job tobes!

The first thing that I think could be changed though is HP ice on chandy. Most dragon types now-a-days tend to carry a scarf and can OHKO chandy easily. My suggestion is to run energy ball on chandelure to hit gastro hard and well. It also helps with low health politoeds, rotom-Ws (and I guess Vaporeon if you ever see it).

The next thing is your choice of substitute on dugtrio, don't get me wrong, its pretty good (I've been burned by it before). But if you plan to cripple a pokemon after your trap-kill of Terrakion, t-tar, ninetails etc, I think it would be interesting to try out toxic on Dugtrio in place of substitute. After your trap, depending on what they bring in, you can cripple it with the appropriate and if they don't kill you and are slower, you can land a toxic AND memento on that pokemon ultimately SUPER-crippling them.

Go ahead and try my suggestions on an alt or somethig, I think it would be neat. Hope I helped :)