Pokémon X and Y Discussion

[Yveltal]

Originally Posted by Fat Ingo

Good lord
A claw shot that moves at 100 km/h and momentarily reaches the temperature of the sun?!

This would be an incredible Pokemon, and this move could be its special signature move.

Kingler/Crawdaunt's new deep sea evolution/slide evolution from Krabby/Corphish. Forget the fact that it's a shrimp, one of the two would greatly enjoy an evolution into something with sonic shot claws.

[SmashBrosBrawl]

Originally Posted by Fat Lord Raiden

Someone beat me to it, but the Pistol shrimp is probably the best example.

"Sonic Shot"
Special
BP 60-80?
Chance of flinch (20% ?)


Also:

Animals

Katydids
Grasshoppers
Dolphins
Cockroaches
Frogs (the water/ground frog/toad pokemon in Gen V is covered in eardrums, basically)
Lizards (some of them)
Deep Sea Animals (some use sound to communicate in the dark)
Cave animals (see above. cave-dwelling opilionids/amblypygids would work especially well)

The number of possible concepts is really only limited by the creativity of the people who make up pokemon.

You could also do something non-organic and make one that's Steel/Sound and based on Metal music.

I still don't have any good arguments against my post about Light and Sound being types.

I just have lazy responses from people who don't seem to know much about basic physics or biology.

If someone can post a really good argument against my ideas, I'll drop it, but I haven't seen much effort.

I also dont see any good arguments for new types other than ''why not''? Dont be so hypocryte about this. The point is theres no reason to add new types.

[Lord Raiden]

Originally Posted by Fat SmashBrosBrawl

I also dont see any good arguments for new types other than ''why not''? Dont be so hypocryte about this. The point is theres no reason to add new types.

By that logic, why do we need new pokemon?

Why do we even need new games?

Unless you want people to start losing interest, new things need to be added to games like Pokemon periodically to keep it from stagnating. Why did they add abilities and natures in gen. 3? Why did they add new types in Gen. 2?

It helps keep things fresh. The addition of abilities and natures is really what made this entire website possible, because it meant that we could make our pokemon more specialized for specific tasks in battle.

New types are a great way to keep things from stagnating, because it opens new possibilities in many different directions.

Thank you, come again.

[Zabel Zarock]

Originally Posted by Fat Lord Raiden

You could also do something non-organic and make one that's Steel/Sound and based on Metal music.

As much as I really love this idea (I really do. \M/) it would be broken beyond belief. Not even Arceus would be able to defeat it.

Between the hammer and the anvil indeed.

Originally Posted by Fat inanimate blob

It'd need the ability Heavy Metal, too.

Why can't this exist already. Perhaps a future CAP? :3

As I mentioned a long time ago Heavy Metal needs a giant buff but I never mentioned what kind of buff it needs.

Heavy Metal:
Opponent loses automatically cause they can't handle METTAAAALLLLL! \M/

[Lord Raiden]

Originally Posted by Fat shockwave527

Like this, this is good. Although I like the gyms how they are (and really want a dark gym), I think this could be cool and is an actually NEW suggestion. Maybe something more battle-frontier style though, not for the gyms but as an after game and maybe things that show off a specific stat. Strategy badge/symbol, speed badge/symbol, power badge/symbol...

I think I'll expand on this.

How about gyms based on broader themes?

Bio Gym

- Based on rainforests/jungles
- Leader/disciples use the following types: Bug, Grass, Water, Poison

Geo Gym

- Based on Geology
- Leader/disciples use the following types: Fire, Steel, Rock, Ground

Aqua Gym

- Based on aquatic ecosystems
- Leader/disciples use the following types: Water, Ice, Ground, Flying

Ruins Gym

- Based on ancient ruins/archaeology
- Leader/disciples use the following types: Rock, Ghost, Psychic, Dark

Mythos Gym

- Based on mythology
- Leader/disciples use the following types: Dragon, Ghost, Dark,

I could go on, especially once you consider overlapping types.

[shockwave527]

Originally Posted by Fat Lord Raiden

I think I'll expand on this.

How about gyms based on broader themes?

Bio Gym

- Based on rainforests/jungles
- Leader/disciples use the following types: Bug, Grass, Water, Poison

Geo Gym

- Based on Geology
- Leader/disciples use the following types: Fire, Steel, Rock, Ground

Aqua Gym

- Based on aquatic ecosystems
- Leader/disciples use the following types: Water, Ice, Ground, Flying

Ruins Gym

- Based on ancient ruins/archaeology
- Leader/disciples use the following types: Rock, Ghost, Psychic, Dark

Mythos Gym

- Based on mythology
- Leader/disciples use the following types: Dragon, Ghost, Dark,

I could go on, especially once you consider overlapping types.

I forgot about that idea! I have so wanted a ruins gym or ruins-themed gym leader.

Think, in the anime:
Get rid of Cilan, get a new male partner who is a pokemon historian and is trying to learn all about the region and pokemon, especially ancient ones. Or, make it the new woman. Have the women actually have some purpose instead of being a random girl into contests.

[Infernis]

Lord Raiden, stop being childish.

Originally Posted by Fat Lord Raiden

I still don't have any good arguments against my post about Light and Sound being types.

I just have lazy responses from people who don't seem to know much about basic physics or biology.

If someone can post a really good argument against my ideas, I'll drop it, but I haven't seen much effort.

You can't just say that there are no good arguments. You have to actually refute the ones that exist to prove they are bad arguments.

Remember that post I wrote about Normal type already covering Kinetic energy? Read it, and tell me why there needs to be a Sound type. It would have a hard time logically differentiating itself. What's going to resist it? Same things that don't take much damage from headbutts. What's weak to it? Not much. Perhaps ice, since crystalline structures tend to amplify their resonant frequencies much more readily than most matter, but ice really doesn't need that.

Now on to Light.

You say that radiation is damaging to many things. That is true, but I highly doubt that anything that can irradiate and destroy an enemy in short order is going to be allowed near a 10 year old. So they're probably not using gamma radiation as an attack. They've made silly attacks before, but remember that Japan in particular is not fond of radioactivity. (Though they do love their nuclear power.) France has quite a few reactors of its own, but any 'radioactive sludge' Pokemon can just be poison type.

With high-frequency EMR out of the way, that takes us to visible spectrum light. Focusing a lot of it in one place can build up a lot of heat, but that's what fire type is for. I suppose Flash is a good opportunity for a light-type move, but Flash alone does not a type make. It needs attacks. You can focus light with mirrors (e.g. Flash Cannon), gather via chlorophyll shenanigans (e.g. Solarbeam) or, what, make a wall out of light a la Light Screen? Lightning has 'light' in the name, but is very obviously an electrical attack.

This leaves us with infrared light. We can't even see it. You know what it causes, when we notice it at all? Heat. Fire does that.

Remember that light is just electromagnetic radiation. It is generated when electrons change energy states within an atom and emit photons. Electricity has reign over electrons.

I really don't see how there can be enough effective moves that aren't covered by an existing type. List some examples, if you must.

[skidilidy]

I wholeheartedly agree with SBB on removing crits. IMO it would be best to remove as many random factors as possible if we want to maintain a competitive game. Random crits inherently go against this philosophy, as anyone who has played TF2 will know.

[inanimate blob]

Originally Posted by Fat skidilidy

I wholeheartedly agree with SBB on removing crits. IMO it would be best to remove as many random factors as possible if we want to maintain a competitive game. Random crits inherently go against this philosophy, as anyone who has played TF2 will know.

But anyone who has played TF2 would also know that random crits also make for a more interesting and fun game, considering you'll always need to be on your toes at every given moment. :)

[Zabel Zarock]

Originally Posted by Fat inanimate blob

But anyone who has played TF2 would also know that random crits also make for a more interesting and fun game, considering you'll always need to be on your toes at every given moment. :)

As someone who knows TF2 from experience there's more ways of exploiting crits.

There's the Kritzkrieg that gives full crits on uber. Jarate, Buff Banner, Crit-a-cola, Fan-O-War, etc. gives mini-crits. Etc. And people have been on the receiving end way too much. Pokemon does have some crit multipliers like Frost Breath and Super Luck but not as bad as TF2.

Just randomly throwing that out there.

[skidilidy]

Originally Posted by Fat inanimate blob

But anyone who has played TF2 would also know that random crits also make for a more interesting and fun game, considering you'll always need to be on your toes at every given moment. :)

There's a reason comp TF2 disables random crits and damage spread, it doesn't make for a competitive game. Sure, in pubs crits can be funny and all, but you can't have them in a serious setting.

Originally Posted by Fat Zabel Zarock

As someone who knows TF2 from experience there's more ways of exploiting crits.

There's the Kritzkrieg that gives full crits on uber. Jarate, Buff Banner, Crit-a-cola, Fan-O-War, etc. gives mini-crits. Etc. And people have been on the receiving end way too much. Pokemon does have some crit multipliers like Frost Breath and Super Luck but not as bad as TF2.

Just randomly throwing that out there.

I'd like to emphasize that I said random crits. Controlled crits, Frost Breath and etc (there should be more variants imo), are different.

[EsurioXY]

Originally Posted by Fat skidilidy

There's a reason comp TF2 disables random crits and damage spread, it doesn't make for a competitive game. Sure, in pubs crits can be funny and all, but you can't have them in a serious setting.

But in TF2 you have massive amounts of inputs and variables and your direct skill is put to the test.

Pokemon is all about our 'critical thinking' and 'problem solving skills'. Those critical hits and damage spreads serve as a random factor to take into account. The spreads are small and the critical hits and 'random chances' serve to add risk and reward to certain play styles.

Certainly a person relying ONLY on the 50% Confusion self hit chance as a damage dealing tactic is going to lose. Likewise that person who relies on Superluck and buffing crits is still at a disadvantage when against a person who simply uses buffs or choice items.

Point is that TF2 is not Pokemon and... well its silly to make that comparison.

[Lucario_Guy]

Originally Posted by Fat shockwave527

I forgot about that idea! I have so wanted a ruins gym or ruins-themed gym leader.

Think, in the anime:
Get rid of Cilan, get a new male partner who is a pokemon historian and is trying to learn all about the region and pokemon, especially ancient ones. Or, make it the new woman. Have the women actually have some purpose instead of being a random girl into contests.

If Champion Cynthia were just a little bit younger...


Edit - btw, doods who are still crying about crits: they may be annoying at times, but they sure as hell come in handy when you misplay against / are outplayed by someone with a dedicated Baton Pass team. Or something like Stored Power Sigilyph. You get my drift.

stfu about the flippin' things already, eh?

[skidilidy]

Originally Posted by Fat EsurioXY

But in TF2 you have massive amounts of inputs and variables and your direct skill is put to the test.

Pokemon is all about our 'critical thinking' and 'problem solving skills'. Those critical hits and damage spreads serve as a random factor to take into account. The spreads are small and the critical hits and 'random chances' serve to add risk and reward to certain play styles.

Certainly a person relying ONLY on the 50% Confusion self hit chance as a damage dealing tactic is going to lose. Likewise that person who relies on Superluck and buffing crits is still at a disadvantage when against a person who simply uses buffs or choice items.

Point is that TF2 is not Pokemon and... well its silly to make that comparison.

Both games require sharp decision-making skills. By no means am I saying that they are similar in gameplay, but in both cases you have competitive metagames that can be (in Pokemon's case, must be) influenced by random factors. Our focus shouldn't be on emphasizing risk and reward, but skill. Critical hits detract from skill by punishing a player even if that player made all the correct decisions.

[Infernis]

They're not punishing a player for making the right decisions, they're punishing that player despite his or her correct decision. That's an important distinction. Even the best laid plans can go awry, which is why you have to have more than one.

[Lucario_Guy]

Originally Posted by Fat Infernis

They're not punishing a player for making the right decisions, they're punishing that player despite his or her correct decision. That's an important distinction. Even the best laid plans can go awry, which is why you have to have more than one.

I agree. Is not skill shown, too, in situations where victory is achieved even though plan A doesn't pan out?

[skidilidy]

Originally Posted by Fat Lucario_Guy

If Champion Cynthia were just a little bit younger...


Edit - btw, doods who are still crying about crits: they may be annoying at times, but they sure as hell come in handy when you misplay against / are outplayed by someone with a dedicated Baton Pass team. Or something like Stored Power Sigilyph. You get my drift.

stfu about the flippin' things already, eh?

Oh, so criticals are good because they save your ass when you get outplayed? And how is that at all good in a competitive game?

Don't denigrate my opinions. Just because I think you're wrong doesn't mean I'm going to call you a moron.

Originally Posted by Fat Infernis

They're not punishing a player for making the right decisions, they're punishing that player despite his or her correct decision. That's an important distinction. Even the best laid plans can go awry, which is why you have to have more than one.

But surely if you make the correct decision, you deserve to win? It's entirely possible to be in a winning position in Pokemon by outplaying your opponent, then lose because your opponent got a crit. Your opponent didn't do anything to win - your opponent could have far less skill and experience than you, but you could still lose because your opponent got a crit. Essentially the RNG decided the winner of that game, not the relative skill of the players. That is not healthy for a competitive game.

[Scorpio]

Sorta changing the subject here, but IF they introduced a new type, they could just replace HP Dragon with HP (newtype), since nothing really uses HP Dragon anyways, both in-game or competitively. Plus, they'd probably make something up about Dragon being 'too good' for HP.

IV problem solved, new type confirmed. :P

[b2j135]

Yveltal, I need your overview powers again, if you could.
It would seem were done with the light type BS and now are talking about evolutions and new moves for current pokes.

[R_N]

Originally Posted by Fat Scorpio

Sorta changing the subject here, but IF they introduced a new type, they could just replace HP Dragon with HP (newtype), since nothing really uses HP Dragon anyways, both in-game or competitively. Plus, they'd probably make something up about Dragon being 'too good' for HP.

IV problem solved, new type confirmed. :P

In it's place, we will get HP Normal

The new type was in front of us the entire time

[Infernis]

Originally Posted by Fat skidilidy

But surely if you make the correct decision, you deserve to win? It's entirely possible to be in a winning position in Pokemon by outplaying your opponent, then lose because your opponent got a crit. Your opponent didn't do anything to win - your opponent could have far less skill and experience than you, but you could still lose because your opponent got a crit. Essentially the RNG decided the winner of that game, not the relative skill of the players. That is not healthy for a competitive game.

Not true. A single critical will not allow a poorly made team to overpower a skilled player. If that critical was enough to change the entire outcome of the match, it was going to be a close match anyway.

If it were an unexpected Quick Claw activation that allowed their Ursaring a chance to smash your sweeping Volcarona to bits, maybe, but Volcarona will normally kill that Ursaring well before it has a chance to hit. If Volcarona went second, and had to tank a hit before slaughtering the bear, it would still be wide open for a revenge killer to knock its block off. With a critical the only thing that changes is that their revenge killer takes a little less entry hazard damage.

I can only think of a very few fringe cases where a critical has saved a match for me. Those battles were very dramatic and enjoyable for me, since it was going to be a close game either way, and it's usually the last two Pokemon standing duking it out. Otherwise it really doesn't matter that much.

[Lord Jesseus]

I don't really care about crits, but something to consider:
There is no upper limit on crits in a match
People have said "a single crit shouldn't matter" (which isn't necessarily true anyway)
but what if there's more than one crit, favouring one side multiple times per match by chance?


Considering the amount of abilities and attacks that revolve around them though removing them seems like more trouble than it's worth.

[The Diverman]

This critical hits talk is worse than new type discussions. -_- I'm just going to say this: critical hits do add luck to the game, but they can also add skill. One factor that makes a player good is how well he or she can adjust to the unexpected. So in a game, it could go down to who could adjust better to something that wasn't expected. Of course there will be times when luck favors one player over the other so much that it's impossible to overcome, but you have accept that will happen sometimes. But what if the better player didn't win? Well I think you and smogon just has to accept that sometimes, that just happens when you're playing a game involving luck. If you don't like luck being involved, then go play something else. Finally, if we take every single luck factor out of the game, the game becomes stale and so 1 dimensional that battles could be decided before the match even starts.



Here's a better topic of discussion: Do you think they will ever break the mold and have our protagonist talk?

[Onicon]

Sorry, the BW2 protagonists already talk. Pokéwood, you know?


Role-playing in a role-playing game aside, we prefer them silent. Pokemon protagonists have not definite persona and that's what makes them so appealing. It is a role-playing game where the protagonist is set as a figure, but not as a character; that's left entirely to your imagination and any idea about them is as valid as the other.
It was quite a disruptive experience when the BW protagonists started talking in one of the memory cutscenes. It's as if in Golden Sun Felix stopped and Isaac started talking.

[Infernis]

Probably in the medium of responses beyond yes/no, but not to a large extent.

"Which starter did you pick, <TRAINER>?"

>'I picked Fennekin!'
>'I picked Froakie!'
>'I picked Chespin!'

Most likely stuff like that, or more in the vein of Curtis/Yancy's conversation options. Skyward Swords gave words to Link, I don't see why <TRAINER> can't speak a little, too.