GSC In-game tiers

[Alice in Strings]

Originally Posted by Fat neilymon

holy crap, i just found out Haunter doesn't learn the TM Punches. seriously??? he's got freaking floating hands, his punches should be awesome.

Abra is Top Tier, with or without trade. Gastly (trade) is High, while Gastly (no trade) might even be Low; personally I'd put him in the Mid Tier because he has niche uses (as mentioned, Miltank and Snorlax, which are among the most annoying Pokemon in the game). Scizor and Steelix are Mid Tier only if you don't consider how annoying it is to get Metal Coat; if you just want to make a note of it under "Availability," I suppose they are considerably better than all the guys listed in the Low Tier.

@TM13, I never said I disagreed with Kadabra being Top. He is probably the best Pokemon in the game (Feraligatr can give him a run for his money, though~) thanks to having the Elemental Punches and the most powerful STAB Psychic in the game.

If we're counting Steelix and Scizor, I honestly don't see what Scizor has over Scyther. Scyther's fast and hits hard. Scizor is slower, but hits harder with its slightly higher Attack stat.

Scizor gets natural Metal Claw and False Swipe, both very nifty moves for in-game. On the other hand, Scyther gets Wing Attack and Slash, while also getting natural False Swipe. I'm curious as to how the added Steel typing could help Scizor get SD boosts off.

Also, the fact you're catching so many Magnemite could be considered tedious. But then, this is the same thing as "oh, lets make sure we can get to Lapras by Friday, so we're going to predict when we'll meet it". To me, that sounds like a lot of work that I wouldn't want to put in if I were playing to just beat the game. I'd rather just grab a Mantine (in GC) or Tentacool and be done with it.

Speaking of Mantine, he's actually pretty good. I'll get to writing a review of him since I use him a lot in my runs.


Mantine Mid Tier

Availability: He's a somewhat rare encounter on the sea routes between Olivine and Cianwood. You'll probably encounter at least one if you don't Repel spam.
Stats: Mantine's got a gargantuan 140 Base Special Defense and a respectable Base 80 Special Attack. Defense and HP are a little low at 70 and 65 respectively, and don't even bother with physical attacks, as it's not killing anything with Base 40 Attack. Speed's kinda mediocre as well at Base 70, but it's enough to get it by.
Movepool: Surf and Blizzard. These are the only two moves that matter, and Mantine uses them pretty darn well. Most of the things Mantine likes to hit use either Special Attacks or are slower than he is, so Mantine can afford to only have a couple of good moves. Yeah, his movepool is pretty barren...
Matchups: Mantine can beat Chuck's Primeape, but can't really harm his Poliwrath. Jasmine's Piloswine, Clair's three Dragonairs, and Pryce's Piloswine also fall to the manta ray. In the E4, Will has trouble actually hurting Mantine thanks to its Special Defense, but can't kill Slowbro. Koga's Ariados, Crobat and Venomoth also fall to Mantine, but Forretress likes to blow up and Muk likes to sit there and take Special hits all day. Bruno's Machamp has Rock Slide, but everyone else dies to Surf. Karen's Houndoom, Umbreon, and (sadly, terrible) Gengar all die to Mantine. The Dragonites outspeed Mantine, but Blizzard sorts them out, and only the Thunder Dragonite really poses a problem. In Kanto, Blaine, Janine, Brock, and part of Blue's team fall to Mantine. Red's Charizard is also no match for Mantine.

Additional Comments: Mantine's problem is a lack of moves. This is one of those things that GSC is famous for. Many Pokemon in this Generation suffer from not having a move they really want. Mantine really wants Ice Beam, but only gets it in Crystal. He's also not as diverse as some of the other Water types (looking at you, Lanturn), and he's pretty rare. All these factors plant him solidly in Mid Tier.

[benreborn]

Nominating Butterfree for mid-tier

Butterfree
Availability: route 2
Stats: average
Movepool: very good

Butterfree can abuse all the powders and supersonic plus you can put your oponnents to sleep then use nightmare for a garenteed kill due to npcs not switching

[Alice in Strings]

Let me be clear, Butterfree's movepool consists of Powders, Gust, and Psybeam for the majority of the game. Keep in mind this is Non-STAB Psybeam. This is not Gen 3, where Butterfree destroys anything slower than it thanks to Sleep Powder + Dream Eater. This is Gen 2, where Butterfree has 75% accurate Powders, 55% accurate Supersonics and the terrible Nightmare (why was this even brought up?).

I brought Gust up because that's Butterfree's only STAB move. At 40 Base Power coming off it's hideously weak Attack stat, it's not doing much.

Reading what you posted, I don't think you used Butterfree seriously. Anyone who uses Nightmare is just dicking around, in my opinion.

Butterfree is not available on Route 2 (Which is postgame anyway). She IS available really early on, but I wouldn't recommend using it in Gen 2. It's a wannabee Psychic type in Gen 2 that gets trounced by many of the End-game bosses (Can't do anything to Lance or Red, for example). Low is a perfect spot for it.

[TM13IceBeam]

75% is still pretty legit for accuracy, and Psybeam does help in clearing Koffings/Zubats. Butterfree is also one of the earliest users of the powders and he does it damn well too due to being faster than quite the fair bit of stuff earlygame. I think it does have quite the shot for Mid, although that might be stretching it a bit too much.

And yeah, Nightmare is retarded.

[Dre89]

Butterfee is also good for catching pokemon, which I think has really been forgotten in these tier lists.

For example I've got 7 badges in my current playthrough, but my level 21 victreebell has caught me so many pokemon (I'm going for all 251) that he's probabaly my second MVP behind my alakazam.

[The Knights of Wario Land]

Reserving Slugma and Porygon

Aka the worst Pokemon in the game

[benreborn]

putting anything to sleep is awesome and 75 isnt half bad for a sleep move, plus why all the hate on nightmare? between spamming nightmare and psybeam it can kill most things

[Alice in Strings]

Originally Posted by Fat benreborn

putting anything to sleep is awesome and 75 isnt half bad for a sleep move, plus why all the hate on nightmare? between spamming nightmare and psybeam it can kill most things

Nightmare is a terrible move, and you're terrible for using it.

(jk)

Seriously though, Nightmare is amazingly terrible. You should never be using Nightmare. Ever.

I actually played around with Nightmare a few years back, and I was seriously disappointed. It takes more time for Nightmare to kill an enemy than Curse, and in order for it to work, you need to put something to sleep.

That's really bad.

Butterfree for Mid would be a stretch. It has a hard time dealing with a bunch of late-game threats, and if it can't put them to sleep, it dies.

[Redew]

Originally Posted by Fat Google Knight

Miltank is not on the list. Can I do it?

Go for it.

Originally Posted by Fat TM13IceBeam

Oh well, let's just make a simple one then

NOTE: I'm not sure what exactly are the mechanics behind Shuckle's little toy. I might go on a run of GSC soon enough to check how exactly Shuckle does his little trick. If it's useful enough I might consider changing the tier recommendation to Low.


Shuckle - Bottom Tier
Availability: Earliest you can get is after Sudowoodo, by getting the TM from the guy near it on Route 36 (don't worry about being limited, they also become available from Goldenrod), and going to Burned Tower to smash some rocks for a 10% chance of a L15 Shuckle. Otherwise, you can get one for free at Cianwood, which also gets boosted experience.
Stats: It has the best defenses in the game, but it also happens to be even slower than Slowpoke and has the offenses of a Magikarp.
Movepool: There isn't much to be said when your only STAB is Rollout. Shuckle learns a variety of utility moves (as well as Earthquake/Sludge Bomb, wasted on something with Shuckle's offenses), which makes him a status abuser, so to speak.
Gyms it's good at: Considering that his awesome defenses are countered badly by his bad HP, and that he has Magikarp-level offenses, he's not going to be useful anywhere soon other than being item fodder.
Other info: Shuckle may seem useless but still has one trick up his sleeve, legs, shell, whatever: he has the ability to make infinite Rare Candies. By attaching a Berry onto Shuckle and walking around, Shuckle will be able to turn your Berry into a Berry Juice and then a Rare Candy, providing the potential for infinite Rare Candies and a gamebreaker. Unfortunately, the time invested is contradictory to efficiency, placing it in Bottom.

Will add.

Originally Posted by Fat Alice in Strings

Delibird
Bottom Tier
Stats: Dear lord, Delibird, you have the stats of a NFE Pokemon. Base 65 SpAtk is only slightly better than Ariados' and Base 45 defenses is just pitiful. The only interesting thing is having 75 Base speed...as your best stat.
Movepool: Godawful, you are completely reliant on TMs to do anything at all, because your only Level up move has a CHANCE OF HEALING YOUR FOE! As for TMs, aside from Fly, Icy Wind and Blizzard, there is nothing at all interesting. As in, you have no other STAB, the only other attacking moves you get are Headbutt and Mud Slap (and obligatory Frustration/Return)...and that's it. Nothing good at all aside from Blizzard, which got nerfed considerably in Gen 2 (90% accuracy all the way down to 70% accuracy)
Matchups: Delibird doesn't really excel anywhere thanks to its terribad stats and amazingly shallow movepool. The entire reason you'd want an Ice type is to take care of the six or so Dragons in the game, and Delibird can't even do that! He can contribute in some of the Kanto gyms if you didn't bother dumping it as soon as you could thanks to sheer level advantage, but even then, there are things that do its job way better in the same place that are far easier to find and capture.
Additional Comments: Delibird has a cool sounding cry, and a unique design. It also just so happens to have a terrible movepool consisting of Fly, Blizzard, and Icy Wind. It is completely reliant on TMs to do anything aside from healing the enemy, and even then, it can't use any TMs to make it a decent Pokemon. It's stats are also on the line between terrible and godawful. It's literally worse than Gen 3 Luvdisc, because at least it could learn some moves and have Ice Beam! Avoid at all cost.

Will add.

Originally Posted by Fat neilymon

echoing x42bn6 here: (shortened)


Totodile - Top Tier
Availability: Starter
Stats: Above Average
Movepool: Above Average
Additional Comments: Rage is surprisingly effective against the early gyms, after which TMs (Ice Punch, Headbutt/Dig) and HMs (Surf) make it an incredibly versatile Pokemon with very well-rounded stats. Throw in the excellent Bite and it's easy to see how Totodile really doesn't need any teammates to beat the game.

Nice! But, would you be willing to make this longer? It's a great entry--it really is--but we're aiming for longer entries. Other than that it's great!

Originally Posted by Fat Alice in Strings

@TM13, I never said I disagreed with Kadabra being Top. He is probably the best Pokemon in the game (Feraligatr can give him a run for his money, though~) thanks to having the Elemental Punches and the most powerful STAB Psychic in the game.

If we're counting Steelix and Scizor, I honestly don't see what Scizor has over Scyther. Scyther's fast and hits hard. Scizor is slower, but hits harder with its slightly higher Attack stat.

Scizor gets natural Metal Claw and False Swipe, both very nifty moves for in-game. On the other hand, Scyther gets Wing Attack and Slash, while also getting natural False Swipe. I'm curious as to how the added Steel typing could help Scizor get SD boosts off.

Also, the fact you're catching so many Magnemite could be considered tedious. But then, this is the same thing as "oh, lets make sure we can get to Lapras by Friday, so we're going to predict when we'll meet it". To me, that sounds like a lot of work that I wouldn't want to put in if I were playing to just beat the game. I'd rather just grab a Mantine (in GC) or Tentacool and be done with it.

Speaking of Mantine, he's actually pretty good. I'll get to writing a review of him since I use him a lot in my runs.


Mantine Mid Tier

Availability: He's a somewhat rare encounter on the sea routes between Olivine and Cianwood. You'll probably encounter at least one if you don't Repel spam.
Stats: Mantine's got a gargantuan 140 Base Special Defense and a respectable Base 80 Special Attack. Defense and HP are a little low at 70 and 65 respectively, and don't even bother with physical attacks, as it's not killing anything with Base 40 Attack. Speed's kinda mediocre as well at Base 70, but it's enough to get it by.
Movepool: Surf and Blizzard. These are the only two moves that matter, and Mantine uses them pretty darn well. Most of the things Mantine likes to hit use either Special Attacks or are slower than he is, so Mantine can afford to only have a couple of good moves. Yeah, his movepool is pretty barren...
Matchups: Mantine can beat Chuck's Primeape, but can't really harm his Poliwrath. Jasmine's Piloswine, Clair's three Dragonairs, and Pryce's Piloswine also fall to the manta ray. In the E4, Will has trouble actually hurting Mantine thanks to its Special Defense, but can't kill Slowbro. Koga's Ariados, Crobat and Venomoth also fall to Mantine, but Forretress likes to blow up and Muk likes to sit there and take Special hits all day. Bruno's Machamp has Rock Slide, but everyone else dies to Surf. Karen's Houndoom, Umbreon, and (sadly, terrible) Gengar all die to Mantine. The Dragonites outspeed Mantine, but Blizzard sorts them out, and only the Thunder Dragonite really poses a problem. In Kanto, Blaine, Janine, Brock, and part of Blue's team fall to Mantine. Red's Charizard is also no match for Mantine.

Additional Comments: Mantine's problem is a lack of moves. This is one of those things that GSC is famous for. Many Pokemon in this Generation suffer from not having a move they really want. Mantine really wants Ice Beam, but only gets it in Crystal. He's also not as diverse as some of the other Water types (looking at you, Lanturn), and he's pretty rare. All these factors plant him solidly in Mid Tier.

Will add.

Also I am posting to say that I read this every day and I keep up on things. I haven't forgotten about this!

[benreborn]

Ok so butterfree for low or bottom? I'm voting on low

[Satisfaction]

I disagree only on the nightmare comment, not for butterfree or anything but if you give a ghastly nightmare along with its hypnosis it can easily kill Snorlax even at lv 4 (the level you get it) considering how powerful Snorlax is regularly I would think that for ingame purposes nightmare has some merit

[Alice in Strings]

Originally Posted by Fat Satisfaction

I disagree only on the nightmare comment, not for butterfree or anything but if you give a ghastly nightmare along with its hypnosis it can easily kill Snorlax even at lv 4 (the level you get it) considering how powerful Snorlax is regularly I would think that for ingame purposes nightmare has some merit

Orrrr...you give it Curse and get rid of the middle man.

[Dre89]

Sleep isn't that useful for soloing but it's good for teams that are going through the game with minimal levelling. Plus it's good for catching pokemon, and free switches/item spamming.

[LightningLord2]

Just a question about Oddish: Isn't it rather doable to fully evolve it by using a Sun Stone on Gloom? It's not THAT difficult to win the Bug Contest. However, Bellossom is probably not that good that it would bump it up to mid, however, this should at least be mentioned.

[The Knights of Wario Land]

Slugma- Bottom Tier

Availability: Route 16, 17, 18
Stats: Its only good stat is Defense, but its Speed and horrid typing don't do it any good
Movepool: Fairly average, with Rock Slide and Flamethrower in its level-up pool, but its poor 50 attack won't do it any good
Matchups: Considering how late Slugma is available to catch, it's barely worth it. The only gym it does any work against is Erika, and by then you've probably got plenty of Pokemon to deal with her. It doesn't help that when it evolves into Magcargo, it will most likely be OHKO'd by all Ground and Water moves, the latter is everywhere around Cinnibar Island. It could do okay against Blane, but you're getting to his gym on a Water-type, aren't you?
Additional Comments: Magcargo just seems to have everything wrong with him. A horrendous typing, lame stats, very late availability, , evolution at a fairly high level, and being outclassed by nearly every other Fire and Rock-type in existence. At least it looks kinda cute, but by all means, avoid using.

--
Porygon later.

[Satisfaction]

Ghastly can't kill with only curse Snorlax rests too often theoretically you can burn up all of rests pp especially with spite but if you want the regular ghastly to do it, it needs nightmare and curse together to beat it

[Dre89]

Originally Posted by Fat LightningLord2

Just a question about Oddish: Isn't it rather doable to fully evolve it by using a Sun Stone on Gloom? It's not THAT difficult to win the Bug Contest. However, Bellossom is probably not that good that it would bump it up to mid, however, this should at least be mentioned.

It's pretty luck-based to be honest, unless you really know what you're doing. You'd probably have to farm it, and in terms of efficiency it really isn't worth the time.

[TM13IceBeam]

Originally Posted by Fat Dre89

It's pretty luck-based to be honest, unless you really know what you're doing. You'd probably have to farm it, and in terms of efficiency it really isn't worth the time.

It's not that bad, since catching something like Scyther usually guarantees a win or something.

[Dre89]

Originally Posted by Fat TM13IceBeam

It's not that bad, since catching something like Scyther usually guarantees a win or something.

Not really. I've caught scythers and pinsirs before and haven't won. A lot of the scoring has to do with whether the IVs are odd numbers, so that's pretty luck-based.

[Lucchini]

Originally Posted by Fat Satisfaction

Ghastly can't kill with only curse Snorlax rests too often theoretically you can burn up all of rests pp especially with spite but if you want the regular ghastly to do it, it needs nightmare and curse together to beat it

Nobody's stopping you from switching out to a physical attacker when Snorlax Rests while Curse is in effect.

Gastly can also solo 'lax at any level if he manages to sleep him before he Rests, and Hypnosis is a likely move on your set (even for an evolved Gengar).

[IstheCakeReallyaLie]

Originally Posted by Fat The Knights of Wario Land

Slugma- Bottom Tier

Availability: Route 16, 17, 18
Stats: Its only good stat is Defense, but its Speed and horrid typing don't do it any good
Movepool: Fairly average, with Rock Slide and Flamethrower in its level-up pool, but its poor 50 attack won't do it any good
Matchups: Considering how late Slugma is available to catch, it's barely worth it. The only gym it does any work against is Erika, and by then you've probably got plenty of Pokemon to deal with her. It doesn't help that when it evolves into Magcargo, it will most likely be OHKO'd by all Ground and Water moves, the latter is everywhere around Cinnibar Island. It could do okay against Blane, but you're getting to his gym on a Water-type, aren't you?
Additional Comments: Magcargo just seems to have everything wrong with him. A horrendous typing, lame stats, very late availability, , evolution at a fairly high level, and being outclassed by nearly every other Fire and Rock-type in existence. At least it looks kinda cute, but by all means, avoid using[B].

Isn't this only counting the non-postgame Pokemon only? And shouldn't you be using the animated Crystal sprites?

Might be considered spammy

---

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5X1CLM31SU
Basically, in-game tier rankings for Crystal and HGSS. Mods, feel free to edit this if you feel it's too spammy.

[Alice in Strings]

So I noticed something while browsing Bulbapedia. Something that makes me interested in using Poliwag.

Poliwhirl learns Ice Punch by TM. This could be very helpful against Clair and Lance, and serve better than other Water-types in this role. Testing him out in my Crystal playthrough.

[JSND]

Originally Posted by Fat Lucchini

Nobody's stopping you from switching out to a physical attacker when Snorlax Rests while Curse is in effect.

Gastly can also solo 'lax at any level if he manages to sleep him before he Rests, and Hypnosis is a likely move on your set (even for an evolved Gengar).

Or simply PP stall it or something

Sure its not efficient or something like that, but its there

Its not like you can actually win against Red in normal manner anyway(okay, maybe you can if you used Bulky Water type with Toxic)

[Google Knight]

Miltank
Availability: Midway though Johto, routes 38 and 39 (low percentage of appearance).
Stats: Good. Has good HP and defense, and a usable attack.
Movepool: Good, as she learns EQ, Body slam, a recovery move, Heal bell and another physical moves such as Iron tail and shadow ball. Also gets the combo Rollout + Defense curl, but personally I rather EQ, Body slam, Milkdrink and Heal bell.
Gyms that it fares well against: If you get her by trade, she is good against Falkner, Bugsy and also usable against Whitney.
Good against Pryce using her stabs, and also against Clair by the same reasons and if you don't have (I didn't at that moment of the game) Pokémon with ice or dragon moves.
she's right against all Elite Four except Bruno because he uses not only fighting types, but also a rock type, that resist Miltank's stab. Usable against your rival, Lance and Red.
In Kanto, she's good against everything bar Brock, and even against him she can use EQ if you have teached it to her.
Other info: As she's a normal type, she can't get stab + supereffective damage, but anyway you can use the stab to hit hard. Normal is neutral against everything except rock, ghost and steel, so it is not a bad offensive type, although obviously not being able to superefective hit is a drawback. Miltank can support your team with Heal bell, that way you don't need spend money on Full heal.

Recommend her to be placed at high or medium tier.

(I'm from spain, so sorry if I commited some mistake >_<)