OU Stats - February 2k13

[butterfingers158]

Originally Posted by Fat Rayquaza_

Then why can't we use both Landorus and Landorus-T in the same team? Why is the species clause such a big deal for anything not named Arceus?

Would it hurt to have an extra stat that takes into account the global usage of a pokemon, as well as the individual usage statistics of the various formes?

Because they have the same national dex number, which is the criteria for species clause.

The base stat distributions between Landorus-T and Landorus are very very different, and as such are different for tiering purposes

[Bryce]

In the suspect ladder,usage #1 to #11 are all classic mons on the Standard Tyranitar Sand Offense teams except Politoed. The metagame shift and banning of Tornadus-T has made Sand Tyranitar offense extremely popular,and it was already very popular before Torn-T ban as well.I can assume that TTar's ability to pursuit trap Keldeo,Landorus,Breloom's checks has made this sweepers incredibly threatning. And guess what?Latios beats all 3 of them as well Garchomp and Terrakion and is capable of breaking past TTar after some prior damage. Scizor is Scizor,a poke with a lot of utility and that powerful Bullet Punch in addition to checking Latios. Jirachi is another great Latios check and can help against Terrakion/Keldeo depending on the set. Keldeo is the best offensive Scizor check there is after Magnezone,Landorus can threaten Jirachi when it's not locked into Ice Punch on scarf set.Aside from these sweepers being potent on their own,I can see a cycle here.


These sweepers have also shaped weatherless offense.I myself had used a team of Garchomp,Terrakion,Keldeo,Latios,Scizor,Breloom. Although Kyurem-B,Lucario, Volcarona etc occasionally pops up here and then but at the end of the day,most BW2 offense teams are heavily dominated by these group of sweepers.Even Dragonite has fallen to #12.

[Tassa]

Originally Posted by Fat Rayquaza_

Landorus isn't 30th because it's underrated, but because it has to compete for a teamslot with Gliscor and Landorus-T, who share the same type.
On top of it, most teams that feature Landorus are sand teams, so they carry either Tyranitar or Hippowdown.
In a metagame dominated by rain you definitely don't want to stack up on water- and ice- weak pokemon.

I understand your explanation, but looking at the stats of suspect we can see 40% Lando-T more than in standard, and though Lando has twice more use than in standard. It tends to prove that these reasons if they limit it, doesn't justify a such bad ranking.
It was mainly that anormal difference that I pointed, and there was the same number of Politoed to face.

[Meru]

Anybody find it amusing that pretty much all of the viable Choice Scarfers for the tier are in the top 10 for Suspect stats? Obviously not solely for their Scarf sets, but if you dip below, pretty much nothing else commonly runs it, except like... Salamence.

These stats also feature Stoutland in OU cutoff range. I'd say the Suspect ladder is a much more accurate representation of the competitive metagame.

[Magcargo 2]

I really underestimated infernape. It isn't that bad tbh and has amazing coverage as well as a priority move. It deserves a bit less usage but is actually a good pokemon.

[Dcae]

How is Tornadus so low? Its Specs set is devastating and extremely underrated, it kills teams with STAB Hurricane. Now that Tornadus-T is gone, I see Tornadus coming back to OU. It is definitely strong enough. Also, regarding Landorus, I agree that the problem is competition for spots in regards to 4x weak Ice pokemon, considering practically every dragon is cursed with a 4x Ice weakness. Since so many people run Dragons, they are reluctant to put Landorus on their team. Regardless, Landorus is easily one of the most threatening pokemon in OU right now, a great late-game cleaner with underrated bulk and good coverage/power. It should definitely be used more.

[SharKing]

Tornadus is strong, but it's too damn frail. It's very easily worn down, especially with Stealth Rock and Sandstorm (which diminishes Hurricane's usefulness). I've seen people use it in place of Tornadus-T, but let's face it: it's not Tornadus-T.

[Tabuu]

: Infernape is definitely a viable threat in the OU Metagame when given the chance. I think people need to realize that he isn't garbage to the point where he fails completely in OU and needs to take a hike down to UU. When presented the right circumstances, Infernape can really pick apart teams. I remember I held a 5-2 Lead and one of my opponent's last Pokemon was Infernape. I gave it little regard and it really came back to bite me in the ass. He definitely isn't the Kong he was back in DPP and has fallen a lot because he has become serverly outclassed.

: This guy is definitely very scary. Choice Specs Hurricane has a long list of 2HKOs and OHKOs that it can achieve. Things that hold him back would be Stealth Rock and Sand being the more prevalent Weather Choice. However, Stealth Rock can be easily spun away by the infamous Starmie who has great synergy with Tornadus. Also while Sand may be the more prevalent weather, Weatherless is actually the more popular playstyle, meaning you probably will not have to worry about too many weather wars. Even so, Tornadus is a fantastic End-Game Sweeper due to his high speed and high power. Tornadus can poke in many times throughout the match and throw out HP Ices, Hammer Arms and U-Turns to eliminate various checks and counters to Tornadus. However, once the opposing team is weakened, a Hurricane sweep is so possible. Honestly. This guy could fly back to OU. People need to realize. The Three Genies? Honestly, a gift from God ;]

: This guy is just way too strong. Special or Physical, Landorus will not fail you. He also gets to possess the title of being uncounterable. Until you truly know what set that genie is running, you're "counter" just might get smashed by Focus Blast or Gravity. Honestly, with Sand Force and Sheer Force as its abilities, one cannot imagine why it isn't used more...besides the fact that it has a crippling base 101 Speed letting it get outsped by a host of faster Pokemon and a x4 Weakness to Ice....But he's still worth usin'

[Dcae]

I really like your analysis on Tornadus and Landorus, people don't realize how monstrous both are. I know SR and Sand are irritating, but SR is spun away by Tenta, Forre, or Starmie on Rain teams, and Sand can be dealt with prediction. The key to effectively abuse Tornadus is to not spam Hurricane midgame, but use U-turn more (in weather wars)

Landorus is S-rank for a reason. I consider it the greatest threat of OU, despite its low usage. Thanks to its variety of sets, and its underrated bulk (VERY UNDERRATED) it cleans and hurts a lot.

[Magcargo 2]

I think landorus isn't getting much usage because Landorus-Therian is easier to fit into teams. Although landuros is definetly not outclassed by its alternate form, Landorus-therian has better bulk (Thanks to intimidate) and higher attack. Also, Landuros-T is very similar to groudon in terms of stat spread, making newer player attracted towards it. Landorus-I is very underrated for these reasons, but preforms better than its counterpart in an offensive role. Being able to 2HKO Blissey with a SPECIAL ATTACK after SR is very impressive. Landorus also has sand force and higher speed making it a better offensive Pokemon in sand teams. Landuros definetly needs more usage.

Shame to see kyurem-b so low.

[Eleman]

Landorus is a very sad case of a pokemon. It should get much more usage than it is getting right now. In the sand, this thing is a monster. With physical sand force of special sheer force, this thing is an offensive beast. It has good enough stats to take relatively weaker hits and can easily sweep by setting up rock polish or any other boosting move of its choice. While playing on showdown, I was winning 5-2 and after the other guy's Landorus came in on my own Landorus, it was all over. It swept me 2-0 after that and I made sure not to underestimate this horribly overlooked pokemon. That said, Landorus-I should be getting more usage because with its great stats and strong move pool, it can easily sweep unprepared teams. And with the usage it is getting, that is even easier to do so.

[Rayquaza_]

Originally Posted by Fat Eleman

Landorus is a very sad case of a pokemon. It should get much more usage than it is getting right now. In the sand, this thing is a monster. With physical sand force of special sheer force, this thing is an offensive beast. It has good enough stats to take relatively weaker hits and can easily sweep by setting up rock polish or any other boosting move of its choice. While playing on showdown, I was winning 5-2 and after the other guy's Landorus came in on my own Landorus, it was all over. It swept me 2-0 after that and I made sure not to underestimate this horribly overlooked pokemon. That said, Landorus-I should be getting more usage because with its great stats and strong move pool, it can easily sweep unprepared teams. And with the usage it is getting, that is even easier to do so.

This has already been discussed on the previous page.
Landorus is a mutually exclusive pokemon with Landorus-T, so in order to reflect its true usage we need to consider both formes. The same is true for all pokemon with multiple formes.
We should have both combined a separate stats in order to see this better.

[UltiMario]

Except Landy-T and Landy-I do completely different jobs, and as such, are completely unrelatable.

If you really want to know their total usage, just do some simple addition.

[BurningMan]

Originally Posted by Fat Rayquaza_

This has already been discussed on the previous page.
Landorus is a mutually exclusive pokemon with Landorus-T, so in order to reflect its true usage we need to consider both formes. The same is true for all pokemon with multiple formes.
We should have both combined a separate stats in order to see this better.

While you are right that they are mutually exclusive it makes no sense to combine their usage as they are different pokemon (there was actually some talk in Policy Review to maybe change species clause so that you could use different formes on the same team). Enforcing your proposal would mean that all Rotom formes would be OU even though the only form that is actually usable is Rotom-W, it would also mean that shaymin would get to ubers just because Shaymin-S is broken and i don't see how that would be in any way beneficial to the metagame especially for the lower tiers.

[Dcae]

Exactly, formes generally are hugely different and should never be considered together. Landorus vs Landorus-T are so different, and thus their usage on teams depends on the given role. Thus the two stats would obviously differ, because they are unrelatable.

[Magcargo 2]

| 48 | Metagross | 4.48559% | 42697 | 5.773% | 34953 | 5.901% |

Metagross needs more usage. Like Tabuu said about infernape, metagross is a legitament threat in the metagame. Although he has taken a downfall, he still is pretty viable in OU. Here are some calculations of his power.

252Atk Life Orb Light Metal Metagross (Neutral) Meteor Mash vs 4HP/0Def Salamence (Neutral): 79% - 93% (264 - 312 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
252Atk Life Orb Light Metal Metagross (Neutral) Zen Headbutt vs 4HP/0Def Terrakion (Neutral): 117% - 138% (380 - 450 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.
252Atk Life Orb Light Metal Metagross (Neutral) Hammer Arm vs 4HP/0Def Flash Fire Heatran (Neutral): 85% - 100% (278 - 326 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 4% chance to OHKO
252Atk Life Orb Light Metal Metagross (Neutral) Zen Headbutt vs 4HP/0Def Volt Absorb Thundurus Therian (Neutral): 78% - 92% (234 - 276 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
252Atk Life Orb Light Metal Metagross (Neutral) Hammer Arm vs 4HP/0Def Tyranitar (Neutral): 157% - 185% (540 - 636 HP). Guaranteed OHKO

With a bit of entry hazard support, metagross can shake the metagame. I understand metagross isn't as good as it use to be, but it still is a powerful force in the metagame and should not be taken lightly.
EDIT: It should be noted that metagross is also one of the bulkiest attacker in OU. Also, light metal was by default.

[Arcticblast]

Why use Light Metal when you have Clear Body to prevent Intimidate?

[Dcae]

I think the only viable set for Metagross left is the AgilityGross set, which is not outclassed by much and combines excellent coverage with outstanding speed (at +2) and with LO and hazards up, can rip through teams. The fact that Metagross has such great bulk allows it to take common priority moves with ease, and that helps it sweep. The AgiliGross set is potentially very threatening, and I feel that set should be used more. However, Metagross' days are gone :( Shame, he used to be my favorite in Adv era.

[Tabuu]

Lucario went from #41 (5.966%) in January of this year and shot up all the way to #20 (11.372%)!
I'm so happy I could cry...FINALLY!
People realize his end-game potential is just so fuckin' amazing. +2 LO Lucario is not playing games people. Add Stealth Rocks in and you're all about to take a sweeping to the dome.
Lucario is truly a survivor of BW and a veteran of DPP. Unlike our poor Infernape, Lucario has held his game strong. Just keep struttin' Lucario, just keep struttin'.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Just stay strong Dragonite. You's my favorite Dragon of all times.
Although 5th to 12th looks bad, in reality, he didn't fall that much at all. (16.3% to 15.8%). It's just that seven other Pokemon got some major usage boosts...

[spooky96]

Lucario was a lot batter back in DDP. These days you'll always find lacking speed. if you add Scarf then you'll lack power. And getting up a Swords Dance is very hard, only a few Pokemon allow Lucario to set up. That's why its low in usage, but I really wish some how it gets more usage, it certainly doesn't deserve to be in the late 30s or in 40s.

[UncleDrew]

| 14 | Garchomp | 11.38806% | 79663 | 10.771% | 61523 | 10.388%

I don't think I saw a single Garchomp all month in my matches, wierd considering it was so high.

| 20 | Alakazam | 9.58778% | 76727 | 10.374% | 57852 | 9.768%

Alakazam is another one that I just personally did not see almost at all. I definetly saw much more of Mamoswine, Landorus, and Deoxys-D for sure.

[Halcyon of Light]

Originally Posted by Fat spooky96

Lucario was a lot batter back in DDP. These days you'll always find lacking speed. if you add Scarf then you'll lack power. And getting up a Swords Dance is very hard, only a few Pokemon allow Lucario to set up. That's why its low in usage, but I really wish some how it gets more usage, it certainly doesn't deserve to be in the late 30s or in 40s.

I disagree completely. With the amount of Choice-locked Pursuits, Crunches, Hidden Power Ices, and Stone Edges, it's very, very easy to set up a Swords Dance and sweep late-game. Lucario is a dangerous threat, and can easily wreck the opponents weakened Pokemon. Not to mention he has no trouble switching in and out due to x4 resisting Stealth Rock.

[spooky96]

So do you have some replays showing me some awesome Lucario sweep/late game sweep from it? And there are better late game sweeper available in BW2.

[G-Von]

Originally Posted by Fat Halcyon of Light

I disagree completely. With the amount of Choice-locked Pursuits, Crunches, Hidden Power Ices, and Stone Edges, it's very, very easy to set up a Swords Dance and sweep late-game. Lucario is a dangerous threat, and can easily wreck the opponents weakened Pokemon. Not to mention he has no trouble switching in and out due to x4 resisting Stealth Rock.

Late game sweeping can be done by many pokemon so I continue to fail to realize why people love Lucario so much. It has a great defensive typing yet its frail. Its main sweeping moves are all weak priority moves, too. I feel like new players are the cause for it's high usage.

[Soul Fly]

Slap a scarf on keldeo and you're really doing the same damn thing.

Sad to see how most teams are cookie cutter choice teams.

I can't remember the last time I saw anyone run Hyper Offence (well) on the ladder cfor the past 2-3 weeks after deo-d left. Yeah Kind of hard to set up considering you've got a keldeo/Terrakion/Latios waiting to just Spam moves....