(Gen 3) Advanced Tiers Revisited revisited - Page 10

***Great Sage***** · Feb 21st, 2007, 11:19:58 AM

Tiers are based on usage, and if an OU Pokemon isn't used a lot, it is dropped to BL, and from my experience, Slaking is most certainly not used a lot, a statement that you seem to agree with.

SHUCKLE MAN · Feb 24th, 2007, 12:16:39 PM

I see more Slaking than I see of other Standards to be honest.

Callum · Mar 27th, 2007, 11:55:40 AM

Despite that rant about Venusaur on the first page, I still believe that, now, it should be OU. I've seen more Venusaurs than I have ever seen Aerodactyls or Donphans, I think they're about as numerous as Ludicolos or Umbreon, at least, if not more, by now. On top of that, they're powerful enough to hold their own in Standard, and many do, especially since they wall HP Grass Electrics (Most electrics) and other Grassers. I think it really ought to be reconsidered.

Tazzler · Apr 2nd, 2007, 3:54:36 PM

I just want to question Kangaskhan's status in UU. IMO, it's way too good. The Rest version can hit anything hard, while taking numerous hits itself. The few things that can take its hits can't do much back to Kangaskhan and are set-up fodder overrall. Nothing in UU should have its speed, power, and durability. With so few reliable countersand with its huge power, imo it should be booted to BL, at least to test it out. I've made this short and brief; I can explain more if people want (though I think most people are going to disagree with me).

Ouro · Apr 15th, 2007, 11:27:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Great Sage

Tiers are based on usage, and if an OU Pokemon isn't used a lot, it is dropped to BL, and from my experience, Slaking is most certainly not used a lot, a statement that you seem to agree with.

I agree with you 100% on this. A couple of OU pokemon should be moved to Borderline/UU. Donphan, Claydol, Medicham, Dusclops and Weezing have lost a lot of popularity. While pokemon like Ninjask, Scizor and Houndoom have all gained in popularity.

~~The Hypnotist~~ · Apr 17th, 2007, 10:51:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Tazzler

I just want to question Kangaskhan's status in UU. IMO, it's way too good. Nothing in UU should have its speed, power, and durability. With so few reliable countersand with its huge power, imo it should be booted to BL, at least to test it out.

I couldn't agree anymore, at least the Walrus is slow! Kang is crazy in UU!

Reflect Suicune · Apr 17th, 2007, 5:04:55 PM

I play quite a bit of UU, and Kangaskhan has never been anywhere near hard to deal with.

Shuckle is more durable, Fearow is faster, and Primeape has higher attack.

Just because he has DECENT attack, speed, and defenses, does not make him broken. He is literally the Kingdra of UU, and how many people use Kingdra?

Echo · Apr 18th, 2007, 11:35:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Silver Shadow

I play quite a bit of UU, and Kangaskhan has never been anywhere near hard to deal with.

Shuckle is more durable, Fearow is faster, and Primeape has higher attack.

Just because he has DECENT attack, speed, and defenses, does not make him broken. He is literally the Kingdra of UU, and how many people use Kingdra?

While everyone of those Pokemon get beaten by a bulky water, like Walrein or Blastoise, Kangaskhan can just oneturn-Rest the attacks off. Besides, that's just three Pokemon while Kangaskhan is still fast, has nice defenses and a good Atk stat.

Kingdra and Kangaskhan can not be compared, because Kangaskhan is one of the most used UU Pokemon while Kingdra struggles. There is no Skarmory for Kangaskhan in UU, but there is Blissey for Kingdra in OU. Kangaskhan also has a better STAB move for its metagame and better type coverage. So no, it's not the Kingdra of UU.

To be honest, a Resting Kangaskhan is quite hard to deal with in UU, because none of the physical walls can fully wall it (Rest/SB/normal move/EQ). You can't kill it with status, only Fighting attacks are SE against it and with that HP it can shrug off almost any non-boosted attack twice or thrice before Resting it off.

The problem is that Ursaring is BL and with its monstrous Atk and an awesome trait, it does sort of outclass Kangaskhan.

monkfish · Apr 18th, 2007, 7:24:52 PM

Kanga is a good UU pokemon, no doubt about it, but banning it is silly. It's not too hard to deal with, it's just good. Although Silver Shadow, I'm not sure why you compare it to
a) a useless NU bug/rock
b) a choicebird
c) a fighter
because its main job is to be a Normal with decent stats and movepool, and it serves that purpose well.

Tazzler · Apr 18th, 2007, 11:00:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Silver Shadow

I play quite a bit of UU, and Kangaskhan has never been anywhere near hard to deal with.

Shuckle is more durable, Fearow is faster, and Primeape has higher attack.

Just because he has DECENT attack, speed, and defenses, does not make him broken. He is literally the Kingdra of UU, and how many people use Kingdra?

Some of what I'm going to say has been stated, but I'll say it anyway.

Don't even compare anything with Shuckle, which fucking sucks. Kangaskhan is a better pokemon by far and all-in-all, is more durable. You can't compare it to Fearow and Primeape. They have easy-to-find, good counters while you struggle to deal with Kangaskhan. Not to mention they die to Tackle while Kangaskhan can take abuse.

Decent? It's stats and movepool are amazing for UU and nothing should have what it has. The Kingdra comparison makes no sense, as well.

m0nkfish, I'll just say that imo, its stats and movepool does make it broken when it can kill almost anything while being quite hard to kill itself.

Also, Ursaring should be OU and not BL, but BLs don't affect Smogon UU so whatever.

husk · Apr 20th, 2007, 12:06:44 PM

kanga has a lot more set counters than primeape for sure!

Lexay · Apr 20th, 2007, 12:32:52 PM

Kangaskhan is no problem in UU. It has to stay where it is.

I actually took the time to read through this topic, and most of the posts are really fucking horrible. I mean come on, at one point someone suggested moving Raichu and Clefable to BL. Then 2 pages after that someone suggests Tentacruel to be moved from UU to OU and to demote Jynx from BL to UU. What the fuck are people like this thinking? Tentacruel is a decent UU pokemon, it's not even good or anything. Its just there. If Jynx, however, is moved to UU, it completely eats the whole metagame. It crushes the special walls in OU and beams everything in sight. these are only few examples and I'm not planning to go in-depth about this, but it sure is ridiculous.

People should think before they suggest something.

Muchabi · Apr 20th, 2007, 9:30:50 PM

It's because some people don't understand that BL exists only to purge strong stuff from the UU scene... Tentacruel's usable in standard play, no doubt about that, but if it's not destroying UU, leave it there.

Oh, and when I played UU, I never had too much trouble with Kanghaskan. He's just the one that can do a good yet not great job at lots of stuff.

That's not what I came here for though... how about Forretress being bumped up to OU? There's certainly enough of them. And I agree Venusaur is on the rise.

Lexay · Apr 21st, 2007, 7:51:06 AM

I have seen quite a few Venusaur lately, I must say.

I wouldnt mind if it were bumped up to OU, but old Celebi will always outclass it.

Mantis · Apr 24th, 2007, 9:54:30 PM

Hitmontop makes Kangaskhan shit her pants.

Flub · Jun 20th, 2007, 2:00:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Great Sage

Eggy needs a turn of setup for a Solarbeam against bulky waters, and during that turn its weak Special Defense gets slapped by a SE Ice Beam.

I am an avid user of eggy. He survives cune's and pert's ice beam--only starmie poses a real threat.

Zane_Truesdale7 · Jun 20th, 2007, 6:46:49 PM

Miltank is BL IMHO. I run one as a filler in my BL team, and that guy is amazing. It's basicly a replacement Blissey. I run one with Toxic, ST, Milk Drink, Heal Bell. It's stats are pretty darn good too, and and has managed to take out half of an OU team for me, and I wasn't even fighting a noob.

Bourbon · Oct 3rd, 2007, 11:01:00 PM

Are you guys joking? Crawdaunt is totally not NU. It's stats are about average for UU, and it has a pretty good movepool.

It would completely OWN anything in NU. It needs to be bumped up to UU. I use Crawdaunt regularly and can attest that it can anything in that NU tier.

EDIT: I also see Glalie, Wailord, and Whiscash down there. Those are much too strong for NU

Umby · Oct 10th, 2007, 10:22:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat skiddle

Are you guys joking? Crawdaunt is totally not NU. It's stats are about average for UU, and it has a pretty good movepool.

It would completely OWN anything in NU. It needs to be bumped up to UU. I use Crawdaunt regularly and can attest that it can anything in that NU tier.

EDIT: I also see Glalie, Wailord, and Whiscash down there. Those are much too strong for NU

A sweeper with low speed and low HP is average? Not to mention its only decent defense is on its physical side, which isn't enough to ward of physical hits. It can barely switch in on anything except its resists/immunity, and after that it will probably have to deal with an oncoming bulky water with Toxic, or a grass type that completely screws it. Crawdaunt just barely plays decent in NU as it is.

Glalie has base 80 in every stat. That doesn't make it overly powerful, especially when you have to distribute EVs among stats. Not to mention it doesn't really have a dominating movepool to be considered "too strong for NU". Glalie is fine where it is.

Wailord isn't really a threat in UU. It has huge HP that's barely a variable given its horrible defenses. It has above average attacking stats and only the standard bulky water moves to use + Selfdestruct in XD. Walrein plays the bulky water game better, especially with Encore and Thick Fat at its disposal. Even Blastoise does better due to its utility advantage over it.

The only advantage that Whiscash has over Quagsire (unless you count Spark) is its HP. Not only is it outclassed in this way, but it's not hard to deal with in NU anyway.

Bull of Heaven · Oct 28th, 2007, 1:27:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat skiddle

EDIT: I also see Glalie, Wailord, and Whiscash down there. Those are much too strong for NU

Have you ever used them? I used Glalie and Wailord on my old NU team. They are nowhere near too strong. They'd be slaughtered in UU.

Nerdling · Nov 2nd, 2007, 12:32:43 AM

Here are some of the more significant changes that I think should be mad, and I fully expect to be screamed at about my judgment on steelix. All of these changes are based on use first, and power second.

Pokemon/Should Be/Current Tier
Donphan/BL/OU
Never seen in OU, but too powerful for UU
Moltres/BL/OU
Never seen in OU, but too powerful for UU
Lapras/BL/UU
Never seen in OU, but is playable in UU without being overpowered
Typhlosion/UU/BL
never seen in OU, but is playable in UU without being overpowered
Wailord/UU/NU
Is occasionally seen in UU, I had one on my UU team for a while.
Tentacruel/UU/UU
Tentacruel needs to stay in UU, it is good in UU, but not good/used enough for BL
Hariyama/UU/BL
Never seen in OU, and pretty weak in UU as well
Flygon/BL/OU
Outclassed by Salamence in every way, and almost never seen
Venusaur/BL/OU
Outclassed by Sceptile, and almost never seen
Gardenvoir/BL/OU
Never seen in OU because of Alakazam, but too powerful for UU
Zangoose/UU/BL
Abysmal in power, and rare in use

Whoever said that Scizor is UU needs to be shot, mauled by wild animals, and shot again. I played on UUstadium for a while, and scizor was legal. It fucking raped the UU metagame up the ass without mercy. Keep it in BL

Keep Swellow in BL, it rapes in UU

Bourbon · Nov 2nd, 2007, 4:07:50 PM

Hmph. At least the tiers got cleared up in the Stark Mountain board. Whoever decided these tiers obviously never used any of the UU pokemon for any length of time. By base stats alone you should be able to tell that Crawdaunt and Glalie are much too powerful for NU, and you should especially be able to tell if you actually ever used one.

Apparently, whoever made those decisons does deserve to get "needs to be shot, mauled by wild animals, and shot again."

Well put, Nerdling

>:[

Nerdling · Nov 2nd, 2007, 6:06:48 PM

why thank you *blushes*

Thorns · Nov 2nd, 2007, 6:36:33 PM

I use Donphan on my CB team. Kills Tyranitar and Metagross if predicted right. Venusaur is NOT outclassed by Sceptile, because they have totally different uses. Venusaur is a tank, Sceptile is mainly used for Subseed and Peteya Sweeping.

Nerdling · Nov 2nd, 2007, 7:22:13 PM

It's not about how good Donphan is, although it is easily outclassed by most other physical attackers in OU, it's about how often it is used. How often do you see other people using Donphan.

I admit defeat on the venusaur topic

Feb 24th, 2007, 12:16:39 PM	#227
SHUCKLE MAN Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,084	I see more Slaking than I see of other Standards to be honest. __________________ Shedinja fainted!

Apr 17th, 2007, 5:04:55 PM	#232
Reflect Suicune Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 553 Agrabah	I play quite a bit of UU, and Kangaskhan has never been anywhere near hard to deal with. Shuckle is more durable, Fearow is faster, and Primeape has higher attack. Just because he has DECENT attack, speed, and defenses, does not make him broken. He is literally the Kingdra of UU, and how many people use Kingdra? __________________ Originally posted by mfair4d I don't think salamence should be moved to uber. Recently a mence switched into me when i was using icebeam and bam down before it could move.

Apr 20th, 2007, 12:06:44 PM	#236
husk Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,066	kanga has a lot more set counters than primeape for sure! __________________ But the feeling is gone...

Apr 20th, 2007, 9:30:50 PM	#238
Muchabi Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 384	It's because some people don't understand that BL exists only to purge strong stuff from the UU scene... Tentacruel's usable in standard play, no doubt about that, but if it's not destroying UU, leave it there. Oh, and when I played UU, I never had too much trouble with Kanghaskan. He's just the one that can do a good yet not great job at lots of stuff. That's not what I came here for though... how about Forretress being bumped up to OU? There's certainly enough of them. And I agree Venusaur is on the rise. Last edited by Muchabi; Apr 20th, 2007 at 9:37:09 PM.

Jun 20th, 2007, 6:46:49 PM	#242
Zane_Truesdale7 Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 82 Ohio	Miltank is BL IMHO. I run one as a filler in my BL team, and that guy is amazing. It's basicly a replacement Blissey. I run one with Toxic, ST, Milk Drink, Heal Bell. It's stats are pretty darn good too, and and has managed to take out half of an OU team for me, and I wasn't even fighting a noob. __________________ All of that work, and you only scored one blow? ~Sasuke Uchiha

Feb 21st, 2007, 11:19:58 AM	#226
*Great Sage* Administrator** Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 5,872 Boston, MA Mentor	Tiers are based on usage, and if an OU Pokemon isn't used a lot, it is dropped to BL, and from my experience, Slaking is most certainly not used a lot, a statement that you seem to agree with.

Mar 27th, 2007, 11:55:40 AM	#228
Callum Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 209	Despite that rant about Venusaur on the first page, I still believe that, now, it should be OU. I've seen more Venusaurs than I have ever seen Aerodactyls or Donphans, I think they're about as numerous as Ludicolos or Umbreon, at least, if not more, by now. On top of that, they're powerful enough to hold their own in Standard, and many do, especially since they wall HP Grass Electrics (Most electrics) and other Grassers. I think it really ought to be reconsidered.

Apr 2nd, 2007, 3:54:36 PM	#229
Tazzler Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,347 Maryland	I just want to question Kangaskhan's status in UU. IMO, it's way too good. The Rest version can hit anything hard, while taking numerous hits itself. The few things that can take its hits can't do much back to Kangaskhan and are set-up fodder overrall. Nothing in UU should have its speed, power, and durability. With so few reliable countersand with its huge power, imo it should be booted to BL, at least to test it out. I've made this short and brief; I can explain more if people want (though I think most people are going to disagree with me).

Apr 18th, 2007, 7:24:52 PM	#234
monkfish what are birds? Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 5,002 we just don't know.	Kanga is a good UU pokemon, no doubt about it, but banning it is silly. It's not too hard to deal with, it's just good. Although Silver Shadow, I'm not sure why you compare it to a) a useless NU bug/rock b) a choicebird c) a fighter because its main job is to be a Normal with decent stats and movepool, and it serves that purpose well.

Apr 20th, 2007, 12:32:52 PM	#237
Lexay I could be boned! Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,837	Kangaskhan is no problem in UU. It has to stay where it is. I actually took the time to read through this topic, and most of the posts are really fucking horrible. I mean come on, at one point someone suggested moving Raichu and Clefable to BL. Then 2 pages after that someone suggests Tentacruel to be moved from UU to OU and to demote Jynx from BL to UU. What the fuck are people like this thinking? Tentacruel is a decent UU pokemon, it's not even good or anything. Its just there. If Jynx, however, is moved to UU, it completely eats the whole metagame. It crushes the special walls in OU and beams everything in sight. these are only few examples and I'm not planning to go in-depth about this, but it sure is ridiculous. People should think before they suggest something.

Apr 21st, 2007, 7:51:06 AM	#239
Lexay I could be boned! Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,837	I have seen quite a few Venusaur lately, I must say. I wouldnt mind if it were bumped up to OU, but old Celebi will always outclass it.

Apr 24th, 2007, 9:54:30 PM	#240
Mantis Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 31	Hitmontop makes Kangaskhan shit her pants.

Oct 3rd, 2007, 11:01:00 PM	#243
Bourbon Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 3,047	Are you guys joking? Crawdaunt is totally not NU. It's stats are about average for UU, and it has a pretty good movepool. It would completely OWN anything in NU. It needs to be bumped up to UU. I use Crawdaunt regularly and can attest that it can anything in that NU tier. EDIT: I also see Glalie, Wailord, and Whiscash down there. Those are much too strong for NU

Nov 2nd, 2007, 12:32:43 AM	#246
Nerdling Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 238 In the darkest recesses of your mind...	Here are some of the more significant changes that I think should be mad, and I fully expect to be screamed at about my judgment on steelix. All of these changes are based on use first, and power second. Pokemon/Should Be/Current Tier Donphan/BL/OU Never seen in OU, but too powerful for UU Moltres/BL/OU Never seen in OU, but too powerful for UU Lapras/BL/UU Never seen in OU, but is playable in UU without being overpowered Typhlosion/UU/BL never seen in OU, but is playable in UU without being overpowered Wailord/UU/NU Is occasionally seen in UU, I had one on my UU team for a while. Tentacruel/UU/UU Tentacruel needs to stay in UU, it is good in UU, but not good/used enough for BL Hariyama/UU/BL Never seen in OU, and pretty weak in UU as well Flygon/BL/OU Outclassed by Salamence in every way, and almost never seen Venusaur/BL/OU Outclassed by Sceptile, and almost never seen Gardenvoir/BL/OU Never seen in OU because of Alakazam, but too powerful for UU Zangoose/UU/BL Abysmal in power, and rare in use Whoever said that Scizor is UU needs to be shot, mauled by wild animals, and shot again. I played on UUstadium for a while, and scizor was legal. It fucking raped the UU metagame up the ass without mercy. Keep it in BL Keep Swellow in BL, it rapes in UU __________________ Kangaskhan, my one true love. Last edited by Nerdling; Jan 4th, 2008 at 12:05:28 PM. Reason: forgot about tentacruel (1), Admit defeat on steelix (2), mixed up the key on the top (3)

Nov 2nd, 2007, 4:07:50 PM	#247
Bourbon Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 3,047	Hmph. At least the tiers got cleared up in the Stark Mountain board. Whoever decided these tiers obviously never used any of the UU pokemon for any length of time. By base stats alone you should be able to tell that Crawdaunt and Glalie are much too powerful for NU, and you should especially be able to tell if you actually ever used one. Apparently, whoever made those decisons does deserve to get "needs to be shot, mauled by wild animals, and shot again." Well put, Nerdling >:[ Last edited by Bourbon; Nov 2nd, 2007 at 4:16:11 PM.

Nov 2nd, 2007, 6:06:48 PM	#248
Nerdling Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 238 In the darkest recesses of your mind...	why thank you blushes __________________ Kangaskhan, my one true love.

Nov 2nd, 2007, 6:36:33 PM	#249
Thorns Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 4,291 outrun my gun	I use Donphan on my CB team. Kills Tyranitar and Metagross if predicted right. Venusaur is NOT outclassed by Sceptile, because they have totally different uses. Venusaur is a tank, Sceptile is mainly used for Subseed and Peteya Sweeping. __________________ [19:01:02] <pookar> can u go 30/12/20 with karthus? fuckhead [19:01:26] <@LonelyNess> I can die more than that if I put my mind to it [19:01:43] <@LonelyNess> in fact I can die more than that even if I don't put my mind to it

Nov 2nd, 2007, 7:22:13 PM	#250
Nerdling Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 238 In the darkest recesses of your mind...	It's not about how good Donphan is, although it is easily outclassed by most other physical attackers in OU, it's about how often it is used. How often do you see other people using Donphan. I admit defeat on the venusaur topic __________________ Kangaskhan, my one true love.