Smogon's First "Create a Pokemon": Poll 4

[astrohawke]

Originally Posted by Fat Mario with Lasers

60/115/60/115/60/124. Total 534 (Infernape's). Ice Beam, Bug Buzz, Discharge, X-Scissor, Brick Break, Roost, Reversal, Focus Blast, Baton Pass, Swords Dance, Agility, Nasty Plot, Ice-Type Flash Fire/Levitate/Ice Shell.

I think it's OU material.

Nice movepool but I wouldn't use that in OU. I like how everyone is comparing it to infernape and think that it will do just as well with the same BST. But infernape is SR neutral while it's 4x weak. Infernape has no 4x weaknesses while it has 2. Infernape has stab close combat, it doesn't. When I see mix sweeper, it's usually something that can break blissey and physical walls. Without stab on a fighting attack, 115 base attack (theoretical), unlikely to have max atk being a mixed sweeper, blissey survives brick break easily and thunderwaves it or just kills it outright after taking 75% switching in.

Hell, even 600 BST won't keep this thing in OU. BL at best. The only way this is being OU is if it somehow ends up with extremely high speed/attack/special attack base stats (inferior deoxys-A spread 50/150/20/150/20/130 = 520 would help it if it didn't have 600 BST), magic guard, swords dance, nasty plot, close combat, megahorn, ice punch, earthquake, stone edge, night slash, pursuit, ice shard, bug buzz, ice beam, thunderbolt among other good moves in its movepool. Basically the biggest movepool with the best possible moves it can possibly get.

[peach]

I voted 540-559, because IIRC some of the highest stat totals of non-legendary Pokés are in that range. And this Pokémon will need it with its horrible defensive typing.

[Automatic]

If It's getting Magic Gaurd and it's going to be a 550+ that seems a little overkill. God forbid we make a pokemon that isn't broken as crap.

[Mario With Lasers]

Originally Posted by Fat Automatic

If It's getting Magic Gaurd and it's going to be a 550+ that seems a little overkill. God forbid we make a pokemon that isn't broken as crap.

That's why we should give it either an Ice-Type Overheat (if it's going to die quickly, then let it kill one thing more, with double STAB'ed Ice Beams), Icey Absorb (technically reducing SR damage, if you can switch in on an Ice attack; but then, pure Fire, Ice and Bug-Types aren't seen that much, and they'd take the same residual damage than this Ice/Bug guy if he had this trait), Ice Shell (watered down Magic Guard; no Life Orb abuse), something that negates ONLY SR damage (name?), or Magic Guard and Clefable's BST.

And now, I seriously think Snow Warning/Compoundeyes with Megahorn+Blizzard is a good idea, whatever the final BST is.

[Cooper]

Originally Posted by Fat Mario with Lasers

And now, I seriously think Snow Warning/Compoundeyes with Megahorn+Blizzard is a good idea, whatever the final BST is.

60% Sheer Cold for the win.

But now that you mention it, I think I'm starting to agree with you. I'm still rooting for Ice Shell, but the idea of a glass cannon mixed sweeper is exciting. Sort of like Infernape, but with interesting STABs and some 4x weaknesses. Besides, something like this would put a lot more emphasis on Rapid Spinners in the metagame.

[Mario With Lasers]

Originally Posted by Fat Cooper

60% Sheer Cold for the win.

But now that you mention it, I think I'm starting to agree with you. I'm still rooting for Ice Shell, but the idea of a glass cannon mixed sweeper is exciting. Sort of like Infernape, but with interesting STABs and some 4x weaknesses. Besides, something like this would put a lot more emphasis on Rapid Spinners in the metagame.

39% Sheer Cold, actually. 30% of 30% = 9%.

And if anything, we can try do do a really good Rapid Spinner, in the next "Create a Pokémon" pools.

If we decide the next one is Grass/Steel, I already have a perfect pokémon. But that's not time to discuss it anyway.

[Gothic Togekiss]

If we ever do another one of these things, let's not make the same mistakes we did before on and I would love to run this thing if given the chance.

MWL~ Grass/Steel = D:

[Cooper]

Originally Posted by Fat Gothic Togekiss

If we ever do another one of these things, let's not make the same mistakes we did before on and I would love to run this thing if given the chance.

Seconded.

Sorry, I thought Compoundeyes added 30% to you accuracy, not increase it by 1.3x.

[futuresuperstar]

Another 4x Fire-Weak? It better have something to mend that ...

Personally, a type combination that I have always wanted to see what Flying / Steel. Maybe that's just me, but I believe it is *only* weak to Fire, as Ice, Electric, Rock, and Fighting are all neutral against it, while easily avoiding all Ground attacks.

Meanwhile, it resists 4x Bug, 2x Dark, 2x Dragon, 2x Flying, 2x Ghost, 4x Grass, 2x Normal, Immune to Poison, 2x Psychic, and 2x Steel.

Unlike Bronzong, it would boast a 4x-resistance to Megahorn, and 2x-resistance to Ghost and Dark, while still resisting Dragon. Meanwhile, the only notable losses are neutral to Rock and Ice instead of resist. Also, it could get a better STAB attack in Air Slash.

[Hyra]

Originally Posted by Fat eric the espeon

most non legindery OU pokemon have 520-539 stat total

I really wanted to sit this thing at 540. But if we put it in that range, it will go to 555+ BST, which isn't necessary. Remember, one of our goals is to have Gamefreak hopefully implement this Pokemon. We can't do that if we step all over Arcanine. :)

But yah, Compound Eyes would be really amazing on this thing. If only it didn't die so hard... Hm... Anyone know how much attack it takes to 2HKO Blissey with STAB Megahorn? Because if we find the Base Attack that gives it that, we are good in the attack department.

Hm... I'm getting you only need around 200 Atk to 2HKO Blissey with a STAB Megahorn. Could some one verify this? Because if this is right, it would need only about 80 Base Attack to 2HKO Blissey. Regice will obviously require alot more Attack to 2HKO, but just keep this in mind.

Edit @ FutureSuperStar:

Isn't that Skarmory?

[Cooper]

futuresuperstar: ...So what did you vote? This isn't really the place to be discussing pokemon types other than Bug/Ice.

[CasMat]

I'm late but I like how cool Compoundeyes is even if it can't sleep powder since Blizzard is a sure move for it to have, and Megahorn a possible one. BTW guys I think it shouldn't have such a high attack. I think this thing should not be so glass that it can't use the resistances that it has, and it needs moves it can switch in on since anything that does over 50% could possibly kill him depending on how we trait him... It resist earthquake so.. Swords Dance allows us to take some out of attack and add it to HP and/or defense while still keeping it a mixed sweeper, right?

[darkie]

Originally Posted by Fat futuresuperstar

Another 4x Fire-Weak? It better have something to mend that ...

Personally, a type combination that I have always wanted to see what Flying / Steel. Maybe that's just me, but I believe it is *only* weak to Fire, as Ice, Electric, Rock, and Fighting are all neutral against it, while easily avoiding all Ground attacks.

Meanwhile, it resists 4x Bug, 2x Dark, 2x Dragon, 2x Flying, 2x Ghost, 4x Grass, 2x Normal, Immune to Poison, 2x Psychic, and 2x Steel.

Unlike Bronzong, it would boast a 4x-resistance to Megahorn, and 2x-resistance to Ghost and Dark, while still resisting Dragon. Meanwhile, the only notable losses are neutral to Rock and Ice instead of resist. Also, it could get a better STAB attack in Air Slash.

Actually, Skarmory is weak to both Fire and Electric.

[Hyra]

Originally Posted by Fat CasMat

I'm late but I like how cool Compoundeyes is even if it can't sleep powder since Blizzard is a sure move for it to have, and Megahorn a possible one. BTW guys I think it shouldn't have such a high attack. I think this thing should not be so glass that it can't use the resistances that it has, and it needs moves it can switch in on since anything that does over 50% could possibly kill him depending on how we trait him... It resist earthquake so.. Swords Dance allows us to take some out of attack and add it to HP and/or defense while still keeping it a mixed sweeper, right?

Well, it only needs 80 Base Attack to 2HKO Blissey, making our old suggestions of 100-120 attack a little over the top in that department. That's basically another 20-40 Stats placed in the defenses.

[Gothic Togekiss]

Originally Posted by Fat Hyra

Hm... I'm getting you only need around 200 Atk to 2HKO Blissey with a STAB Megahorn. Could some one verify this? Because if this is right, it would need only about 80 Base Attack to 2HKO Blissey. Regice will obviously require alot more Attack to 2HKO, but just keep this in mind.

But what happen's if this thing doesn't get Megahorn? How much attack does it require to 2HKO Blissey with X-scissor?

[Hyra]

Originally Posted by Fat Gothic Togekiss

But what happen's if this thing doesn't get Megahorn? How much attack does it require to 2HKO Blissey with X-scissor?

Megahorn = 180 BP (after STAB)
X-Scissor = 120 BP (after STAB)

that looks to be about 300 Atk. Of course, this is actually a little higher, since BP is worth more than the attack Stat.

Edit:

Or not. Changing the Atk to 300 and the BP to 120 returned the exact same percentages. This requires 130 Base Attack to achieve with minimal EV investment. In other words, this thing needs Megahorn or a 100 BP Bug-type Cross Chop. Or Attack Order... Hm... Atk need with Attack Order is 260 Atk, which corresponds to 110 Base Attack for minimal EV investment. A 100 BP move would require 230 Atk, which corresponds to either 95 or 100 Base Attack.

Just a little disclaimer, I am assuming Max/Max+ Blissey. This is rarely used anymore, so it might deal marginally more damage in practice.

[Mario With Lasers]

Originally Posted by Fat futuresuperstar

Another 4x Fire-Weak? It better have something to mend that ...

Personally, a type combination that I have always wanted to see what Flying / Steel.

Huh, Skarmory? >_>

@ Hyra: You need 345 Attack (108 Base Attack, 252 EVs, +Nature) to ensure a 2HKO on a 148 HP/252 Def Bold Blissey.

@ My Grass/Steel pokémon: Her stats are like Milotic's, but physical-oriented. Her physical Defense Tier is 120.22-124.11 (Hippowdon's is 120.49-124.38; Skarmory is 119.17-123.27; Giratina is 122.86-126.41, and Lugia is 121.25-125). She learns Pain Split, Endeavor, Thunderbolt (she is a robot; electronic devices...), Counter, Leaf Blade, Charm, Morning Sun. And, finally, resistance to all the special-oriented types, except for Ice (neutral) and Fire (lol). I even compared her defense tiers with Giratina's, which I believe is known nowadays as the best physical wall in the game, and... she won by a slight advantage. Considering Charm for my robot and WoW for Giratina, the difference was even higher.

Her only problems, to me, are the traits (Clear Body? what the hell) and Infernape.

I shouldn't really discuss her now.

[Hyra]

Are you sure, becuase then Metalkid has something messed up.

Actually its probably reading everything as hitting Abomasnow, which doubles the damage it deals. Yep, that's what was happening.

So, basically double all of my attack Statistics.

[Jediment]

I'd hope the general consensus would be to give this thing Megahorn. I'd really hope.

If not, we have some fighting moves to consider for Blissey. I'd leave Aura Sphere out of the picture; without STAB, Blissey won't be taking much damage. Even Close Combat may not be the best idea ever because of this guy's abysmal defensive typing (though Ice/Bug gives you basically the two best STABs in the history of everything). I think Cross Chop is reasonable.

If we really only need 80 base attack to 2HKO Blissey (which I think would be cemented by Cross Chop), then would we put more investment into defenses or into Special Attack/Speed?

[DrCrashMD]

I think people need to stop posting Fighting-type moves in general - bear in mind this is an Ice/Bug, people! What's with the Stone Edge, Night Slash, Earthquakes, and Close Combat?

Seriously, if you want those attacks, maybe you should have picked a different type.

[futuresuperstar]

Disregard everything I said. I completely brain farted about Skarmory ... >,>

Yeah ...

I already voted for 540-559, I posted my reasoning on the first page.

[astrohawke]

Originally Posted by Fat Hawk

I think people need to stop posting Fighting-type moves in general - bear in mind this is an Ice/Bug, people! What's with the Stone Edge, Night Slash, Earthquakes, and Close Combat?

Seriously, if you want those attacks, maybe you should have picked a different type.

eh...so what? Just because it's ice/bug it doesn't mean it's only allowed to have ice/bug moves. Heracross has stone edge, night slash, earthquake along with other strong non stab attacks.

I'm also hesitant to call such a frail pokemon who will only manage to 2hko blissey a wall breaker. Let's assume for 1 second that it doesn't lose 75% of its HP switching in and blissey uses ice beam as it does. Next turn it will attack and blissey will twave it. In subsequent turns, it wouldn't be hard for blissey to softboiled stall as it slowly kills itself with life orb/sandstorm along with parahax. Not to mention if blissey does decide to switch out afterwards fearing crit or whatever, paralysis has just crippled this sweeper.

So out of all the mixed sweepers so far, how many of them are owned by blissey? Hmm...infernape...nope...tyraniboah...nope...chain chomp...nope...mixmence...YES!. So it's equivalent to a mixmence in that it's a mixed sweeper that can only 2hko blissey so it can't switch in on it for fear of being paralyzed. Blissey has to switch in on it for a predicted brick break to kill. Ok...so the difference? Lets see...salamence actually has 600 BST and its moveset is unpredictable enough that blissey will actually consider switching in on it. I doubt this will be the case here.

[arielby]

Originally Posted by Fat Hyra

Hm... I'm getting you only need around 200 Atk to 2HKO Blissey with a STAB Megahorn. Could some one verify this? Because if this is right, it would need only about 80 Base Attack to 2HKO Blissey. Regice will obviously require alot more Attack to 2HKO, but just keep this in mind.

For Megahorn: 190 2HKOs Blissey,255 2HKOs Regice
For Attack Order: 340 2HKOs Blissey

(I Hate You, Serebii, for listing Min Stats with 0IVs and making my life hard when calculating EV needs for a certain Stat)

[bulbasauresrec]

Voted 540-599.
Since Smogon's making a pokemon, wouldnt you want it to be popular? As in wouldnt you want it to be actually used for real battles. And in order for that to happen the pokemon HAS to be good. So maybe stats roughly higher than the average mixed sweeper would be appreciated.

60/120/65/115/60/125

A little more towards the physical side to give Heracross a run for its money in OU with 125 speed to prevent another Stone Edge slaughter by Dugtro.

[Deck Knight]

Deck suggests:

I'm thinking of something like a Waterskater mixed with Ledian with a somewat smaller horn than Heracross.

85/100/70/120/70/105 = 550

STAB Movepool: Ice Shard, Ice Punch, Ice Beam, Blizzard, Megahorn, X-Scissor, Silver Wind, Bug Buzz.

Other:

Attacks: Focus Punch, Brick Break, Focus Blast, Aqua Jet, Surf, Thunderpunch, Pursuit, Seismic Toss, Horn Drill, Sheer Cold.

Support: Taunt, Hail, Rain Dance, Agility, Sub/Swagger/DT/Endure/Protect/Captivate.

This would allow it to have somewhat decent defenses, actually use both attacks, and outspeed Base 100 threats.