Smogon's First "Create a Pokemon": Poll 5

[Hyra]

First of all,

Yay, I'm in second place!

Okay, now that's that out of the way, the reason I'm so excited is because I didn't expect my stat total to fair well. I focused on the physical end, and the majority of the votes not going into Mixed sweeper went into Special sweeper. I also went for a very polarized spread, almost entirely neglecting the defenses.

Originally Posted by Fat Superbro

The last one is going to win just because it has the highest total. That is all the less pro people are going to see.

Actually, you'll notice that my spread has lower stats in only HP and SAtk. I lowered the SAtk for balance reasons, I didn't want it to be able to 2HKO everything but only the most dedicated mixed walls. It averages a 2HKO on Skarmory with Blizzard and no SAtk EVs and does the same to Bronzong with Megahorn and Max Attack w/o nature.

The speed is put so that there is a consequence to running lower speed. I guess if it was really wanted, you could add one point to speed, just to have it outspeed Infernape without a Speed+ nature. I didn't think of that though and it actually seems more balanced w/o that. If I had done that, it could run Naughty nature and be able to secure 2HKO's on Skamory and Bronzong. I see that as being too powerful, because it leaves very few counters.

Also, Cooper forget what I didn't want placed on it. I'll copy that here if it is chosen.

[Deck Knight]

My view on the whole thing was that I didn't want a glorified (or special version of) Heracross. Why should I waste a perfectly useful Earthquake and Ice Beam resistance by making a pokemon so frail they get 2HKO'd by any attack on the switchin, and therefore only have prospects as a revenge killer, especially if Stealth Rock is up.

Granted my incarnation's attack is a lot lower than the others, but many Bugs have access to Swords Dance and, depending on this thing's physical movepool, it does have the stamina to stat-up and remain useful against a would-be counter.

I also figured that the base power difference would make up for the lower stat. Megahorn has 180 Power after STAB, Bug Buzz only has 135. So Megahorn has 33% more overall power to make up for the difference in stats.

Ice Punch I figured is uniformly horrible. Most 4x weaks are physically loaded on defenses (Torterra, Gliscor, Garchomp, Mence has Intimidate), and even STABbed Ice Punch lacks destructive power. There is basically no instance where Ice Punch would beat out Ice Beam or Blizzard in damage even given equal attack stats barring an insame example like Blissey, which laughs both off anyway.

That leaves us with the rest of the movepool. Focus Punch outranks most STAB moves in power and 80 is a perfectly respectable attack to launch it off of. I had Focus Punch on Dusclops in Advance and it did just fine hitting what it was supposed to. My particular idea included special moves like Focus Blast and Surf, others have suggested Thunder. Either way I figured a focus on SA would best utilize the strengths of bugs while maximizing the destructive power of Ice. The only other solid Bug special attacker is Yanmega, which has the same horrid rock weakness but takes physical attacks a little better.

[Stoo]

Hyras no. 4.

Attack > Special Attack for ice punch and megahorn, faster than most sweepers.

This thing is looking all set to hold a choice band and go apeshit with compoundeyes IMO.

[Crossellia]

I, too, voted for Hyra's. The attack and speed were too attractive to me to pass up.

Cooper. Is there any way to get a link to the art thread in the first page like with the last poll?

[Andren]

Hyra's.

Speed past and kill...easy. HP doesn't matter if it can kill everything.

@Hyra: Nice taste in avatars. :D

[Rhykune]

I voted for Hyra's because it best fit my idea of a Praying Mantis/Ninja/Warrior thing. The only difference is that my idea would have lower speed and speed boost. How would a Ninja/Warrior do special attacks you ask...

Dex Entry:
Although a primary physical force, (Insert Name) can focus its mind to call forth the elements.

[Hyra]

Andren, my request, my avy. yah, I don't like dopplegangers.

Anyways, currently I am in the lead by two. Stupid 555 BST total being more attractive to randoms than 545 BST.

[Mario With Lasers]

Originally Posted by Fat Hyra

Andren, my request, my avy. yah, I don't like dopplegangers.

Anyways, currently I am in the lead by two. Stupid 555 BST total being more attractive to randoms than 545 BST.

;[

I just noticed now that EV spread I gave to it doesn't 2HKO Blissey without Life Orb... Well, not needing Life Orb to 2HKO/OHKO 70%+ of the OU pokémon out there is pretty good, anyway.

The only thing I didn't like at your BS spread was that 47 HP... I think, if it's going to use Life Orb (not that it should; but hey, it's a mixed sweeper...), it would be better for him to actually have more defensive power, so it doesn't die after being hit and using Life Orb once.

And if the major part of the people voting on mine did so just because of the BST being the highest... I'll be pretty sad ;[

[Hyra]

Originally Posted by Fat Mario with Lasers

;[

I just noticed now that EV spread I gave to it doesn't 2HKO Blissey without Life Orb... Well, not needing Life Orb to 2HKO/OHKO 70%+ of the OU pokémon out there is pretty good, anyway.

The only thing I didn't like at your BS spread was that 47 HP... I think, if it's going to use Life Orb (not that it should; but hey, it's a mixed sweeper...), it would be better for him to actually have more defensive power, so it doesn't die after being hit and using Life Orb once.

And if the major part of the people voting on mine did so just because of the BST being the highest... I'll be pretty sad ;[

Well, all the people who thought it need 560+ BST will be voting on yours unless they are more educated. They think high BST = good pokemon.

On the Life Orb thing, I see it actually either getting Magic Guard or Compound Eyes as an ability. Scenario 1) it doesn't lose health from Life Orb. Scenario 2) it can't use Life Orb effectively because it only has 5 turns in which to sweep, unless it leads. In the case of Shiver, I see your point, but I have more Def and SDef than you, so my spread comes out only a little behind on the defense.

Yeah, I basically took a miniature Dusknoir approach, when HP is going to be low anyways (Pain Split/Stealth Rock), it is better to have higher defenses.

[Deck Knight]

I liked Mario with Lasers' a lot more than Hyras.

Hyra's version is like a worse version of Balanced Deoxys. 47 Base HP is terrible. To put it in perspective, this has 4 more HP than Dusknoir, and it shares Lucario's defensive stats (well, 75 does beat 70 by Base 5). It cannot switch in on anything because it has no immunities. Should it get Pursuit it will not have STAB to back it up and will not have the power to KO anything before it gets slaughtered in return.

Given Hyra's distribution this will be like a different typed Infernape with even less lastability and nothing to deal with special walls. Even assuming Close Combat, it cannot take out walls without STAB. This thing screams glass cannon more than all other glass cannons currently available. It takes 50% from SR and has worse defenses than Infernape, Lucario, and Medicham. Even Rampardos beats it. This: (HP * Def)+(HP *SD)= 85070 Rampardos: (HP * Def)+(HP * SD) = 87770.

With 4x Stealth Rock weakness and worse defenses than Rampardos of all things, this is a one-time revenge killer. I don't think this stands a chance at being OU, but it will be too powerful for UU and thus languish in BL most likely.

The only thing I don't like about MwL's is the obvious twinkery with the speed. 121 just smacks of "purposely did this to beat Dugtrio" Other than that his spread is much more viable.

[Mario With Lasers]

Originally Posted by Fat Deck Knight

The only thing I don't like about MwL's is the obvious twinkery with the speed. 121 just smacks of "purposely did this to beat Dugtrio" Other than that his spread is much more viable.

Lol, I even forgot Dugtrio when I gave it 121 Speed. I only thought at "beats 120ers", but I had only Infernape and STARMIE in my head ._.

Yes, I know they don't have 120 Speed.

[Deck Knight]

Originally Posted by Fat Mario with Lasers

Lol, I even forgot Dugtrio when I gave it 121 Speed. I only thought at "beats 120ers", but I had only Infernape and STARMIE in my head ._.

Yes, I know they don't have 120 Speed.

My thought process on speed was "beats Mence, Garchomp, and Infernape." For the rest of them I didn't want to sacrifice the potential for more options just to beat an array of faster pokemon that either beat it regardless (Aero) or won't win 1 on 1 (Starmie, Weavile, Gengar, Jolteon, Crobat). Certain pokemon like Sceptile and Dugtrio can beat it situationally (Sceppy with HP Fire, Duggy with a Stone Edge hit), but neither of those particularly like switching into ice pokemon.

I wanted to make it bulky enough to allow it more options. For instance, you aren't likely to have much power if you go with a Subpunch set if you still want to beat Mence and co in speed. However, if you do go all out attack you still have enough bulk to take nuetral hits and you can come in on EQs and Ice beam. If this gets Thunder it should be able to take on bulky waters quite readily. Swords Dance would make it kind of a reverse Infernape that has a single devastating special STAB but boosts its attack to take enemies out physically.

The main purpose was to give my set enough versatility to be unpredictable. Bulky enough to take attacks and stat up, powerful enough to threaten, and with a few other nasty surprises that can be left to each individual player to utilize.

Naturally I prefer my own but yours is my second choice.

[Cooper]

Also, Cooper forget what I didn't want placed on it. I'll copy that here if it is chosen.

Who said I forgot? It's superfluous at this point to say what you don't want on it. The ability poll is next, and if you win, that choice won't be an option.

Cooper. Is there any way to get a link to the art thread in the first page like with the last poll?

Da. I'll get on that soon.

I voted for MWL's stats, but looking back, I think I like Hyra's better. Physical attack seems to be more useful in our current metagame with all the Cresselias and Blisseys running around. Oh well, if it comes down to a tie in the end, maybe I'll shift my vote....

[Mario With Lasers]

Originally Posted by Fat Cooper

I voted for MWL's stats, but looking back, I think I like Hyra's better. Physical attack seems to be more useful in our current metagame with all the Cresselias and Blisseys running around. Oh well, if it comes down to a tie in the end, maybe I'll shift my vote....

As I said, neutral max Attack [the pokémon with my spread] will 2HKO Cresselia 99% of the time, without any items. Although Hyra's has a lot more chance to OHKO it using a Choice Band than mine. And both won't KO Blissey without SR/Spikes support, although again, his obviously does more damage than mine.

[ultimifier]

and now we have a race between the two uber-like stat spreads. so its a race between 2 pokemon that will outrun everything useful (minus scarfers) and attack back with both attack stats in surplus of 105. good to see people were intelligent when voting on a pokemon that was NOT meant to be super overused, which this will be.

i voted for option 1, because it is a fair stat spread and not ridiculouslt overpowered like 4 and 5

[Jenigmat]

Neither of those two spreads has an attack stat high enough to OHKO any major wall. A lot of Blisseys have Flamethrower, and neither of these bugs will be killing it before Blissey sends the bug back to the Ice Age.

[Hyra]

Originally Posted by Fat ultimifier

and now we have a race between the two uber-like stat spreads. so its a race between 2 pokemon that will outrun everything useful (minus scarfers) and attack back with both attack stats in surplus of 105. good to see people were intelligent when voting on a pokemon that was NOT meant to be super overused, which this will be.

i voted for option 1, because it is a fair stat spread and not ridiculouslt overpowered like 4 and 5

uh, we were obviously assuming this thing will have half its HP? it needs that. Also, Weavile outspeeds and destroys both of us. I think that this will actually help diversify the metagame, right now it is focus on Dragon type attacks. It removes the focus on the Steel typing (all of them except for Magnezone sacrifice their resistance to one of the attacks).

Anyways, who said this was not meant to be super overused? I actually want to see this thing put to use. Also, nothing that exists on a mod server can be OU, considering the standard metagame does not include mod severs.

[Cooper]

Originally Posted by Fat ultimifier

and now we have a race between the two uber-like stat spreads. so its a race between 2 pokemon that will outrun everything useful (minus scarfers) and attack back with both attack stats in surplus of 105. good to see people were intelligent when voting on a pokemon that was NOT meant to be super overused, which this will be.

Oh GOD no, not Bug and Ice moves! Everything is weak to those! Well, thank god we didn't give it the option of Meteor Mash, because Steel is the most overpowered attack type there is.

Grow up. Weavile is one of the fastest pokemon in the game and is incredibly easy to shut down. Azelf is a powerful mixed sweeper (well, kind of) with the option of stat-upping, and it can be put down. Same goes for Garchomp. Our new pokemon can dish hits like a champ, but at 50%, even a NVE move can kill it. Better 555 than 600 BST.

[majesty]

with that speed and attack, this thing had BETTER be a glass cannon.

[ultimifier]

Originally Posted by Fat Cooper

Oh GOD no, not Bug and Ice moves! Everything is weak to those! Well, thank god we didn't give it the option of Meteor Mash, because Steel is the most overpowered attack type there is.

Grow up. Weavile is one of the fastest pokemon in the game and is incredibly easy to shut down. Azelf is a powerful mixed sweeper (well, kind of) with the option of stat-upping, and it can be put down. Same goes for Garchomp. Our new pokemon can dish hits like a champ, but at 50%, even a NVE move can kill it. Better 555 than 600 BST.

jesus man, stop using weavile as an example, weavile is shit. weavile has a good speed and attack, BUT NO SPECIAL ATTACK. these things are just weavile with over 100 special attack. what are weaviles counters again, i cant remember?? oh skarmory, bronzong, bulkydos and other physical tanks. thats weird, this thing owns the shit out of them with the extra 40 points in base special attack.

so before you tell me to grow up, use a decent example to back up your points, not some shit example that means nothing.

[Ambitions]

47/ 125/ 75/ 105/ 70/ 123 (Total 545)

i seriously hope this wins. it will make such a kick ass ice punch plus it will have enough sp att to take out any physical walls that try to mess with it.

none of the other options are quite powerful enough in one stat

[Cooper]

Originally Posted by Fat ultimifier

oh skarmory, bronzong, bulkydos and other physical tanks. thats weird, this thing owns the shit out of them with the extra 40 points in base special attack.

Oh, you mean the things that are resistant to Bug and/or neutral to Ice? Yet all pack efficient ways of dealing with our pokemon, be it Gyro Ball (with over 120 base), Drill Peck/Brave Bird, or Waterfall? Because I can definitely see where you're coming from. No, a Bug/Ice type with absolutely no mention of attacks other than those types will surely triumph over those three.

[Fishin]

I'm sticking with Mario with Laser's stats. Hyra's is just plain too frail, and this thing is going to want to have a lot of speed to compete in the current metagame. Deck Knight's idea is something I like but I'm doubtful as to how effective it would be on something with such bad defensive typing (plus the fact that some Bliss's carry Flamethrower now).

[DougJustDoug**]

I voted for Gothic Togekiss' set. Eric's would have worked for me too. As much as we talk about the glass cannon concept, this pokemon will have two very useful resistances -- Ground and Ice. The ice resist will help on lots of stuff, even without much in the way of defenses. Many ice moves are either low-powered, or launched without STAB. As for ground, there's lots of pokes that have huge EQ's (Chomp is the biggest threat here). Most of them are weak to Ice. It would sure be nice to actually survive a switch into these without dying. Ignore the SR weak for just a second. Yeah, that sucks hard, but it is what it is. With a little stat balance into defenses, this pokemon might actually be able to use it resistances for something.

[bulbasauresrec]

545 Total. Cause something with roughly the stats of Blaziken not needing Agility to pull off a sweep would be cool. And I want its Att higher than SpAtt.