Smogon's First "Create a Pokemon": Poll 7, part 3

[Automatic]

Lawmans move pool looks pretty fair. No Thunder/Tbolt, and I like that it doesn't have EQ.

I'd vote to add Tickle though.



I wouldn't think it would get any ghost moves though. (referring to other posts)

Maybe Haze. It's an Ice move afterall.

[Lawman]

The only ghost move i can see is shadow claw, but now that i think of it, it may not be best for it.

[Yoko Rains]

Yeah, agreeing with no Thunderbolt, but don't see why Earthquake/Stone Edge isn't included.

[EconBiscuit]

*Cries*

I wanted Soy-Monk's... Oh well, I'm not a big fan Cyzir's and his Design is a bit too techinical for a sprite.

So JSC get's my vote it looks like a pokemon, but to fit into the role of a powerful mixed sweeper? That it does not. Still it's the best of whats left

[Pneuma]

Cyzir's levitating/flying art brings flying attacks and tactics into the movepool. =/

Bug Bite/Silver Wind/Bug Buzz/X-Scissor/Attack Order
Ice Shard/Icy Wind/Ice Beam/Blizzard
Slash/Shadow Claw/Night Slash
Brick Break/Superpower/Focus Blast
Hidden Power

All of these fit.
Air Slash could definitely work as could the spikes/spin.
Dark Pulse seems to fit along with Night Slash.


A laundry list of viable tactical moves that need to be discussed. My own thoughts included (though we should move this to a new topic soon):
-Sleep move? Not a Bug/Ice's chance in hell.
-Taunt? Still undecided. It's not bulky enough to abuse it but it is fast enough to use it.
-Sword's Dance? Yes, definitely. Makes it more competitive and usable.
-Nasty Plot? No thanks. Nasty Plot Blizzards in the snow is too much.
-Calm Mind? No, seems too volatile to sit down and become calm.
-Endure and Reversal? Yes, it makes some sense looking at Scyther.
-Mirror Coat and/or Counter? Yes to both. The first makes sense in looks, the second in it's fighting nature.
-Whirlwind? Yes though I doubt it would be used much.
-Screech? For Cyzir's art, yes. Screeching and hailing is nifty too.
-Pursuit? Yes though I don't see it as that useful.
-Endeavor? No. Switching in on SR twice then endeavoring something to 1HP and killing it with hail is, well, broken.
-Roost? I think it would be too broken also. Could definitely work with the art though.
-Knock Off? No, doesn't seem dastardly enough or dextrous enough with it's nubs.
-Haze? Yes, fits with Ice and might see some use.
-Fake Out? Yes and would be fun to use.
-Me First? No, though it could use it.

[Lawman]

Originally Posted by Fat Pneuma

Cyzir's levitating/flying art brings flying attacks and tactics into the movepool. =/

All of these fit.
Air Slash could definitely work as could the spikes/spin.

TBH I cant see rapid spin outta this.

Dark Pulse seems to fit along with Night Slash.

Night slash maybe, but again, dark pulse seems outta place.

A laundry list of viable tactical moves that need to be discussed. My own thoughts included (though we should move this to a new topic soon):
-Sleep move? Not a Bug/Ice's chance in hell.

yea

-Taunt? Still undecided. It's not bulky enough to abuse it but it is fast enough to use it.

It seems plausable.

-Sword's Dance? Yes, definitely. Makes it more competitive and usable.

Agree

-Nasty Plot? No thanks. Nasty Plot Blizzards in the snow is too much.

Yea, heh.

-Calm Mind? No, seems too volatile to sit down and become calm.

If you look at other designs of czir's from the art thread, it
does look somewhat calm, but im agreeing with no calm mind.

-Endure and Reversal? Yes, it makes some sense looking at Scyther.

Agree

-Mirror Coat and/or Counter? Yes to both. The first makes sense in looks, the second in it's fighting nature.

Counter Definately, but I'm not too sure about mirror coat

-Whirlwind? Yes though I doubt it would be used much.

With a Spikes set? It can be novelty I suppose.

-Screech? For Cyzir's art, yes. Screeching and hailing is nifty too.

Screech does seem to fit... but I wouldnt want it over powered with so many stat moves.

-Pursuit? Yes though I don't see it as that useful.

Pursuit is quite good actually. Choice sets would definately uae it.

-Endeavor? No. Switching in on SR twice then endeavoring something to 1HP and killing it with hail is, well, broken.

I would have said no even if it wasnt "broken"

-Roost? I think it would be too broken also. Could definitely work with the art though.

Agreeing here

-Knock Off? No, doesn't seem dastardly enough or dextrous enough with it's nubs.

Armaldo learns Knock Off, and look at him.

-Haze? Yes, fits with Ice and might see some use.

Yes.

-Fake Out? Yes and would be fun to use.

Yes.

-Me First? No, though it could use it.

I cant see it using me first tbh.

Just my opinions.

[rayfordjames]

just some chick ftw

[Goodbar]

I quit. *cries*

[Hyra]

Even though Screech is less useful than Swords Dance, I would prefer to see only Screech. It just makes for a better theme. Of course, with stuff like Garchomp and Vilemplume getting Swords Dance, I doubt we can keep it off this thing.

Yah, my comment on Tail Glow was a joke. Anyways, this thing would get Tail Glow before Nasty Plot, and Tail Glow is unlikely.

For Roost, if it has Attack Order, it has Heal Order, making Roost redundant. Anyways, Infernape has Slack Off, but do you see it using it ever?

The Sleep move I listed was more of a way to show what it can learn from Egg Moves. Honestly, this would be worse than Gengar.

The Slash moves seem redundant. I guess its for the filler movepool that Gamefreak loves to give to Pokemon.

Also, I understand the no Thunder/Thunderbolt/Charge Beam movement, but this thing is more likely to use Electricity than Lapras. Can we compromise with Zap Cannon and Thunder Punch? Zap Cannon only gets 65% accuracy under Compound Eyes, worse than Thunder without the ability. It's weaker than Thunder and if it misses, this guy is dead. I just can't see us not giving an Electric move to a design so capable of generating Electricity.

I don't see anyway this thing will be using Stone Edge, or any Fire moves for that matter. They are just the opposite of this Pokemon design. Earthquake on the other hand might work, but is it heavy enough to cause one?

[Lawman]

Hm... eh, if Forretress can use Zap Cannon, i suppose this thing can

[sanjay120]

Apparently Blissey is heavy enough to cause an Earthquake. And while Blissey is fat, she's light as mayonaise.

[Hyra]

Originally Posted by Fat sanjay120

Apparently Blissey is heavy enough to cause an Earthquake. And while Blissey is fat, she's light as mayonaise.

Hm.. but Blissey is entirely on the ground... Oh nevermind. Ho-oh and Lugia prove that you can cause an Earthquake while flying and Heracross and Pinsir prove that Bugs can cause Earthquakes. I guess its just a balance issue than.


Also, to all the people afraid of Ice Beam + Thunder Bolt, don't forget the havoc that Ice Beam + Earthquake can cause. The latter is arguably better (only resisted by Bronzong and Shedinja) and Earthquake hits more things Super Effective than Thunderbolt.

[CPU]

Zap Cannon is an attack utilizing electromagnetic pulses. Forretress can get it because rotating Steel (iron) strengthens that field, and allows it to be used.
Now, please tell me how a Bug/Ice Pokémon would use that.

Anyway, I'm in favor of moves like:
Earthquake
Blizzard
X-Scissor
Night Slash
Superpower (from Pinsir, you know)
Metal Claw
U-Turn
Aerial Ace
Swords Dance

What I might go for:
Pursuit
Roost (the icicles on its back, in Cyzir's Drawing anyway, don't look like wings.)
Megahorn
Nasty Plot
Shadow Claw

[Hyra]

Originally Posted by Fat CPU V2.0

Zap Cannon is an attack utilizing electromagnetic pulses. Forretress can get it because rotating Steel (iron) strengthens that field, and allows it to be used.
Now, please tell me how a Bug/Ice Pokémon would use that.

Anyway, I'm in favor of moves like:
Earthquake
Blizzard
X-Scissor
Night Slash
Superpower (from Pinsir, you know)
Metal Claw
U-Turn
Aerial Ace
Swords Dance

What I might go for:
Pursuit
Roost (the icicles on its back, in Cyzir's Drawing anyway, don't look like wings.)
Megahorn
Nasty Plot
Shadow Claw

You also forget Regice. Regice can use all Electric moves, while things liek Gyarados and Lapras get Thunderbolt. The only thing Electric moves helps with is Skarmory, Gyarados, and Waters. Skarmory isn't exactly a good switch into this in even without it having Thunderbolt. Gyarados I give more credit to, and I understand the want to keep Thunder / Bolt off this guy for keeping most bulky waters as counters. But Zap Cannon isn't going to mess with their ability to counter this. I doubt it would be used even. I'm just suggesting it becuase this thing looks too much like Regice not to have at least 1 Thunder related move.

[Tsukikage]

My two cents:

level up
-Ice Punch
-Thunderpunch
-Counter
lvl 1 Bug Bite
lvl 1 Growl
lvl 6 Powder Snow
lvl 9 Metal Claw
lvl 14 Endure
lvl 17 Swords Dance
lvl 20 Ice Shard
lvl 25 Ice Beam
lvl 28 Pursuit
lvl 31 X Scissor/Attack Order (Depending on male or female)
lvl 34 U-Turn
lvl 39 Heal Order
lvl 42 Night Slash
lvl 45 Close Combat
lvl 48 Blizzard

tms
-Water Pulse
-Roar
-Hail
-Hidden Power
-Hyper Beam
-Protect
-Frustration
-Thunderbolt?
-Earthquake?
-Return
-Shadow Ball
-Brick Break
-Double Team
-Aerial Ace
-Facade
-Secret Power
-Rest
-Steel Wing
-Roost
-Focus Blast
-False Swipe
-Endure
-Dragon Pulse
-Stone Edge
-Avalanche
-Gyro Ball
-Swords Dance
-Stealth Rock
-Dark Pulse
-X Scissor
-U-Turn
-Flash Cannon
-Rock Smash

egg moves
-Super Power
-Mega Horn
-Counter
-Taunt
-Spikes

[CPU]

I consider the Regis exceptions, as Regirock and Registeel can learn Zap Cannon as well. IMO it's because they're mainly "machines" of sorts. Let's give it Spark if you want an Electric Attack, because:
1. Cold weather makes electricity gather in random bodies.
2. Contact releases this electricity
3. Spark is an Electric attack which releases power through contact.

Give it Zap Cannon if you want, though.

[sanjay120]

Spark is redundant when it gets TPunch.

So, when we're finished with this guy are we making another Pokemon?

[DougJustDoug**]

I decided to add to the original "feasibility test" sprite I made earlier for Cyzir's drawing. I'm still interested to see what Cyzir comes up with. But, as I noodled around with the sprite, I started enjoying it and ended up putting in a few hours of work on it. I'm posting this for others to get ideas of how to render Cyzir's drawing and to see some of the techniques I used to shade the body and create ice wings. I think there's lots of room for improvement by someone with better spriting skills than me. I couldn't figure out a nice way to handle the things that attach the wings to its back. I left them white, for lack of a better rendering.

[sanjay120]

The arms look a bit too much like cylinders (but thankfully no longer like Metang clones) and the coloring is meh. I really think it would benefit from some purple somwhere. It's too RBY-esque.

[DougJustDoug**]

Originally Posted by Fat sanjay120

The arms look a bit too much like cylinders (but thankfully no longer like Metang clones) and the coloring is meh. I really think it would benefit from some purple somewhere. It's too RBY-esque.

Since this started as a "proof" that Cyzir's drawing could be sprited, I tried to stick to Cyzir's original colors, which are pretty bland. I think the coloring could be greatly improved. I'm not horrible at color design, but I suspect there are other artists hanging around here that have a real flair for color. I'd rather see them take a crack at it.

Agreed that the arms are too cylindrical. Cyzir's design has them more cone-shaped, and organic (as opposed to geometric). I'm kinda sick of working on this, so if someone else wants to modify it -- feel free.

[sanjay120]

Tried to make the wings purplish instead of blue and they looked like fairy wings. ._.

But this just screams purple to me. I'll try the body and see what I can come up with.

Made the body a sort of purple blue color. It looks nice. The cylinder problem is somewhat solved by making it less shiny.

[Suprememuffin]

It should have Earthquake. Look at Lucario, he got it and they look very similar to each other.


This might be a bit much, but how about a signature attack for this guy? Like how Heatran has Magma Storm and such.

[sanjay120]

Of course it can do EQ. But it might be a bit much.

No sig move unless it's meh like Lunar Dance.

First trial of epic ice bug:



It could be a bit bluer.

Second trial:



Nice. Maybe the purple can be shiny or female or something.

[Lawman]

Originally Posted by Fat DougJustDoug

I decided to add to the original "feasibility test" sprite I made earlier for Cyzir's drawing. I'm still interested to see what Cyzir comes up with. But, as I noodled around with the sprite, I started enjoying it and ended up putting in a few hours of work on it. I'm posting this for others to get ideas of how to render Cyzir's drawing and to see some of the techniques I used to shade the body and create ice wings. I think there's lots of room for improvement by someone with better spriting skills than me. I couldn't figure out a nice way to handle the things that attach the wings to its back. I left them white, for lack of a better rendering.

That is a VERY good custom... but it looks too much like G/S/C. Perhaps updated shading? very good nonetheless

[CyzirVisheen]

Well, I've been hacking away at it, and I must say, I could've done worse. I'm not too good with sprites, and I had to do a lot of the parts from scratch. Anyways, I'm currently working on the wings as we speak, but I thought that I'd give you guys a look at my progress...



And here's a second pose.



I am working on a 3rd model, one that's resembles the example pic on the first page, but I thought I'd share these for now. Oh, and when I have them all done, I'll do each of the male and female sprites with and without the icicle claws, to see which you guys prefer.

EDIT: Just saw DJD's sprite. Very good job, especially on the wings. They're a bitch :P