Smogon's First "Create a Pokemon": Reflections, Opinions, and Closing

[Mario With Lasers]

Originally Posted by Fat Cooper

I remember wanting it in ever since I realized it could be bred, and it does make sense flavor-wise. It's just that I forgot if any argument was made. If not, Syclant learns Tail Glow. An argument for it is Syclant can't get Earth Power and Tail Glow on the same set.

Oh damn. There goes my Earth Power + Ice Beam combo...

And yeah, I remember seeing Tail Glow in the other movesets lists some time ago. But no one was against it, so yeah, add Tail Glow to Syclant's movepool.

[Jenigmat]

That's quite a good argument for Tail Glow. No good arguments have been made against it, so I guess you'll put it up then?

Is Specs really gonna no longer be a good option because of it? The diversity offered by Earth Power is almost worth having a Specs set under certain conditions.

[Cooper]

Added Tail Glow. As for Specs, I'm just going off what Sunday said about Syclant being better off with stat boosters rather than choice items. But yes, with Earth Power not being a legal combination with Tail Glow, I can still see Specs being usable. Or a MixLant with Earth Power and SD.

[Sunday]

Why do you have to change this so late? The analysis was all done a mothballed away, now I have to rewrite a whole set :(

[Rena22]

DONT GIVE IT TAIL GLOW!! IT DOES NOT NEED ANOTHER MOVE TO BOOST ITS INCREDIBLE ATTACK STATS AND STAB BLIZZARD AND BUG BUZZ DO ENOUGH DAMAGE ANYWAY - THEY DO NOT NEED TO DO ANY MORE!! Also, shoddy doesn't put into account illegal move combos, so Tail Glow + Earth Power will be possible. Also, i do believe Swords Dance is enough - this thing already has a diverse enough movepool with great attacking stats and speed - with two very useful traits.

Now, onto another note:

Originally Posted by Fat Cooper

Added Tail Glow. As for Specs, I'm just going off what Sunday said about Syclant being better off with stat boosters rather than choice items. But yes, with Earth Power not being a legal combination with Tail Glow, I can still see Specs being usable. Or a MixLant with Earth Power and SD.

That's a coincidence, i just happened to come up with my own Mixlant set that included SD and Earth Power. I designed it as a way of taking out the things that are likely switch-ins (or basically the counters in the analysis)

[Mario With Lasers]

Originally Posted by Fat Umbrelava

DONT GIVE IT TAIL GLOW!! IT DOES NOT NEED ANOTHER MOVE TO BOOST ITS INCREDIBLE ATTACK STATS AND STAB BLIZZARD AND BUG BUZZ DO ENOUGH DAMAGE ANYWAY - THEY DO NOT NEED TO DO ANY MORE!!

Infernape and Nasty Plot.

Originally Posted by Fat Umbrelava

Also, shoddy doesn't put into account illegal move combos, so Tail Glow + Earth Power will be possible.

Not in Ladder Play.

[Rena22]

Originally Posted by Fat Mario with Lasers

Infernape and Nasty Plot.

Infernape doesn't have the attacking stats or speed of Syclant, and only has 70% accurate Focus Blast and 85% accurate Fire Blast to work with, in comparison to Syclant's 91% accurate Blizzard, 100% accurate Bug Buzz and 91% accurate Focus Blast.

[Cooper]

Originally Posted by Fat Umbrelava

Infernape doesn't have the attacking stats of Syclant, and only has 70% accurate Focus Blast and 85% accurate Fire Blast to work with, in comparison to Syclant's 91% accurate Blizzard, 100% accurate Bug Buzz and 91% accurate Focus Blast.

When Syclant has those accuracies, it also takes 50% switch-in from Stealth Rock. That's why Tail Glow and SD are acceptable. Whichever ability you use, you're working with a handicap.

[Jenigmat]

Originally Posted by Fat Umbrelava

Infernape doesn't have the attacking stats or speed of Syclant, and only has 70% accurate Focus Blast and 85% accurate Fire Blast to work with, in comparison to Syclant's 91% accurate Blizzard, 100% accurate Bug Buzz and 91% accurate Focus Blast.

This doesn't at all change whether or not Syclant is broken with Tail Glow. Syclant is not Infernape. They are similar, to the point where one could say Infernape's Nasty Plot leads to Syclant's Tail Glow. However, Syclant has crap typing, two 4x weaknesses that aren't exactly rare types, and crap defenses. Also, having those accuracies that you gave means that Syclant starts off with a great 50% HP, meaning that any priority move is gonna be death. The turn Syclant Stats up is the turn that it has to take a hit or hope for a switch. Infernape can take a hit with a neutral to Stealth Rock typing. Syclant, not so much.

[Deck Knight]

While we're at it lets give Scylant Bulk Up and Calm Mind because Infernape, a completely dissimilar pokemon who boosts its SA in a completely different manner gets them too.

And where the hell are Spore, Baton Pass, Close Combat, Fire Blast, Stealth Rock, Toxic Spikes, Spikes, Rapid Spin, and Megahorn. I could have sworn we wanted those on it as well.

[Rena22]

Originally Posted by Fat Cooper

When Syclant has those accuracies, it also takes 50% switch-in from Stealth Rock. That's why Tail Glow and SD are acceptable. Whichever ability you use, you're working with a handicap.

While this does have a big SR weak, i always thought its stats, accuracy and offensive movepool would be enough to compensate for it. Heck, barely anything else that takes 50% damage from SR has these kinds of stats or this kind of movepool (except maybe Yanmega, but it is still somewhat restricted). If this does run Mountaineer, it still has 100% accurate STAB Bug Buzz and Ice Beam, as well as the possibility of 100% accurate Blizzard in a hail team. Also, Syclant already has low enough defenses so that SR damage doesn't really matter - and if worked right with a Swords Dance or Tail Glow boost it shouldn't have to switch out, it should be able to destroy anything in its path.

[Sunday]

I have to say that IMHO Tail Glow would be incredibly overpowered. But I guess we'll find that out when we start testing it won't we?

[Rena22]

Originally Posted by Fat jenigmat429

This doesn't at all change whether or not Syclant is broken with Tail Glow. Syclant is not Infernape. They are similar, to the point where one could say Infernape's Nasty Plot leads to Syclant's Tail Glow. However, Syclant has crap typing, two 4x weaknesses that aren't exactly rare types, and crap defenses. Also, having those accuracies that you gave means that Syclant starts off with a great 50% HP, meaning that any priority move is gonna be death. The turn Syclant Stats up is the turn that it has to take a hit or hope for a switch. Infernape can take a hit with a neutral to Stealth Rock typing. Syclant, not so much.

The problem with using priority moves is that nothing is a safe switch in on Syclant, as it can OHKO most things after a SD or Tail Glow boost. That means that they would have to revenge kill, in which case Syclant could just switch out (and with proper EV investment it can survive 2 hits from SR). And there isn't a priority move that is super-effective on Syclant. Most Ice Shards wont KO even after SR damage - and not everyone carries SR in their team.

[Sunday]

Originally Posted by Fat Umbrelava

(and with proper EV investment it can survive 2 hits from SR).

iirc the proper EV investment is zero.

I really do think that Tail GLow would be quite broken. Remember it can still run Mountaineer with Tail Glow. In fact, you could just run the mix set with Tail Glow in the final moveslot, Mountaineer and Ice Beam > Blizzard and call it a day for just about anything that doesn't outspeed it.

Again, I dislike theorymon and look forward to seeing how the testing pans out for old Syclant.

EDIT: Haha, yeah lets give him Growth instead!

[Hyra]

Originally Posted by Fat Umbrelava

The problem with using priority moves is that nothing is a safe switch in on Syclant, as it can OHKO most things after a SD or Tail Glow boost. That means that they would have to revenge kill, in which case Syclant could just switch out (and with proper EV investment it can survive 2 hits from SR). And there isn't a priority move that is super-effective on Syclant. Most Ice Shards wont KO even after SR damage - and not everyone carries SR in their team.

Uh, Bullet Punch from Metagross destroys this thing on a Tail Glow set. Resistant to Ice, Neutral to Bug and Fighting, good HP and SDef (takes on Deoxys A well enough) and STAB SE Bullet Punch off his massive attack. Plus he has Pursuit.

I'm really undecided on the Tail Glow thing. You could just give him Growth (lol Growth) for a compromise.

[Cooper]

Originally Posted by Fat Umbrelava

The problem with using priority moves is that nothing is a safe switch in on Syclant, as it can OHKO most things after a SD or Tail Glow boost.

The problem with this statement is that it's true for about everything. Nothing that isn't resistant is going to survive an SDChomp Outrage once it powers up, and Infernape has a killer Fire Blast after Nasty Plotting. Not to mention every other pokemon that gets somewhat invincible after some kind of boost (Heatran, for instance). Bug and Ice STABs aren't too great, and Bronzong still stands out as a counter. Saying that Syclant kills with Bug Buzz and Ice Beam is true, but it isn't an exception.

[Sunday]

Bronzong's an incredibly shitty counter, expecially if it gets Tail Gow.

[Cooper]

Ice resist and Bug neutrality with Gyro Ball says otherwise. If Syclant is the new Infernape, it should have 'Nape's capabilities.

[Jenigmat]

If it has Tail Glow, then almost immediately it's restricted to Blizzard/Ice Beam and Bug Buzz. Tentacruel would come in and eat this thing alive shortly after. It can't work with both Swords Dance and Tail Glow effectively, and most of what other people are saying is analogous to saying that SD+Superpower is overpowered. If it had, say, Superpower and Swords Dance, it would be able to SD, Superpower, and hopefully having taken out something, use Blizzard/Ice Beam and Bug Buzz. This is no more broken than any Tail Glow set. Blissey will still be able to come in and hurt it without Superpower, and teh second this thing Superpowers it dies to a Bullet Punch. If Deoxys-S is introduced, Bullet Punch Metagross is gonna get popular, and that hurts TG Syclant even more.

Edit: With this thing's speed, Bronzong with Gyro Ball (which many have anyway) is gonna be death. Immediately. There is no way that it's gonna survive. And if it runs a Mixed Tail Glow set, then it's gonna either have a Special Defense or Defense lowering nature, hurting it when it comes to defenses even more.

[Sunday]

Originally Posted by Fat Cooper

Ice resist and Bug neutrality with Gyro Ball says otherwise. If Syclant is the new Infernape, it should have 'Nape's capabilities.

You obviously didn't look at the damage calcs I did, did you? Bug Buzz is a very near Two hit KO. All versions of Bronzong carrying Lum Berry or with some SR support die. Not to mention the Specs versions that Bronzong can't switch in to.

[GengarCrysis92]

Originally Posted by Fat jenigmat429

Edit: With this thing's speed, Bronzong with Gyro Ball (which many have anyway) is gonna be death. Immediately. There is no way that it's gonna survive. And if it runs a Mixed Tail Glow set, then it's gonna either have a Special Defense or Defense lowering nature, hurting it when it comes to defenses even more.

It's faster. Hits it with a Fire Fang, if we kept it. Gone.

[Derek(PUK)]

too me, with tail glow this thing is kinda broken. Swords dance doesnt make it broken nessecarily due to the weakish attacks. But tail glow is hugely overpowered with 2 100% accurate STAB moves with 90+ base power, no damage from stealth rock along with hp electric/ground. If you use compundeyes its just as broken, with adequate spinning this thing will be able to get in and sweep like hell with blizzard and focus blast.

Maybe giving a +1 satk boost would be fine.

[Jenigmat]

Fire Fang is way too weak to penetrate Bronzong.

Even if Bug Buzz is a 2HKO (Which doesn't stop Marowak and non-STAB attacks against Cress), Gyro Ball is almost certainly a OHKO.

[futuresuperstar]

Please no Tail Glow ...

[Typhlosion009]

Question: I may be wrong, but I thought our poke's name was Syclant. However, people are saying Scylant. It may be a minor difference, or a spelling mistake, but I'm curious.

EDIT: Tail Glow might work, might not. You should test it first before deciding