Ask A Little Question, Get A Little Answer

[Valafar123]

I'm curious as to why Snow Cloak and Sand Veil aren't banned.

[Corkscrew]

Originally Posted by Fat Valafar123

I'm curious as to why Snow Cloak and Sand Veil aren't banned.

Because they haven't been deemed to be broken. OU bans don't have an effect on LC bans and LC have never banned them. It's not like any pokemon with those abilities are any good anyway, so they haven't really featured massively in LC since Gligar was around.

[Valafar123]

Thanks for the answer. Still seems odd that the evasion clause doesn't pass on to abilities too, but like you said there aren't any powerful pokes with those abilities. I've only ever ran into Cacnea and it's more annoying than anything else.

Is Murkrow still in suspect testing? Because that thing is wrecking me daily. It's impossible to prepare for since it does everything and its coverage is unresisted on some sets. Its stats are unreal too.

The only way I've been able to kill these things is on the switch or revenge killing it if it's worn out and doesn't have a Sub.

Maybe I'm just moaning but damn.

[Corkscrew]

Originally Posted by Fat Valafar123

Is Murkrow still in suspect testing? Because that thing is wrecking me daily. It's impossible to prepare for since it does everything and its coverage is unresisted on some sets. Its stats are unreal too.

The only way I've been able to kill these things is on the switch or revenge killing it if it's worn out and doesn't have a Sub.

Maybe I'm just moaning but damn.

Murkrow is not being suspected at the moment and was voted 5-2 to keep in the tier by the council last suspect test. If you want some ways to beat it, scarfers that resist Sucker Punch can revenge the Mixed set pretty easily (Magnemite, Mienfoo, Scraggy). The mixed set can be very hard to switch into though. SubRoost is easier; Chinchou, Magnemite, Tirtouga, Omanyte and most other Rock and Steel types can beat it pretty easily when it lacks Heat Wave or HP Grass. Shellder can also break through Substitute with Icicle Spear which is nice, and it can utilise a Scarf to revenge. You might want to check out the victim of the week thread. Murkrow was no. 4 I'm sure there are some other ways of beating it in that thread.

[Valafar123]

Thanks for that. I'll try a few of those.

[Pokemasta77]

May I ask if Drilbur+Hippopotas together is being tested for banning? This is all I see and it is very hard to counter due to the movepool of Drilbur.

[Chieliee]

Cottonee
Lileep
Riolu
Snover
even stuff like Bronzor 9.9

Drilburr is definitely very good, but by no means 'broken'

[Valafar123]

Originally Posted by Fat Corkscrew

Murkrow is not being suspected at the moment and was voted 5-2 to keep in the tier by the council last suspect test. If you want some ways to beat it, scarfers that resist Sucker Punch can revenge the Mixed set pretty easily (Magnemite, Mienfoo, Scraggy). The mixed set can be very hard to switch into though. SubRoost is easier; Chinchou, Magnemite, Tirtouga, Omanyte and most other Rock and Steel types can beat it pretty easily when it lacks Heat Wave or HP Grass. Shellder can also break through Substitute with Icicle Spear which is nice, and it can utilise a Scarf to revenge. You might want to check out the victim of the week thread. Murkrow was no. 4 I'm sure there are some other ways of beating it in that thread.

Report time!

Shellder has been somewhat ineffective. I'm having to really customise my set to dealing specifically with crow. It gets 2HKO'd by Brave Bird most of the time, which is a little aggravating because I can't switch it in.

Tirtouga didn't work at all.

Magnemite is next on the list for testing. Any specific sets you advise on it?

This is the team I have right now:

...

---

Junior (Ferroseed) (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Iron Barbs
Level: 5
EVs: 84 HP / 36 Atk / 188 Def / 200 SDef
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed
- Seed Bomb

Hipster (Diglett) (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Arena Trap
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 236 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Stealth Rock
- Sucker Punch

Smogon (Koffing) (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Levitate
Level: 5
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 196 HP / 76 Def / 236 SDef
Bold Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
- Fire Blast
- Clear Smog

Chav (Scraggy) (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Shed Skin
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 36 SDef / 236 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Drain Punch
- Crunch
- Ice Punch

Missy (Misdreavus) (F) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
Level: 5
EVs: 126 Def / 240 SAtk / 142 Spd
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Destiny Bond
- Trick

**** Murkrow (Shellder) (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Skill Link
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 36 Spd / 116 HP / 76 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Rock Blast
- Ice Shard
- Shell Smash

I'm guessing cut Shellder for Scarf Magnemite with Volt Switch and HP Ice (steel types really aren't an issue for me, Scraggy scares them out).

[blarajan]

I mean if you're going to operate on no Flying resist, it should be understandable that you get donked by Krow. Drifloon beats you too.

[Electrolyte]

Originally Posted by Fat Pokemasta77

May I ask if Drilbur+Hippopotas together is being tested for banning? This is all I see and it is very hard to counter due to the movepool of Drilbur.

It probably isn't going to be tested because there are quite a few viable ways to defeat Drilbur. Snover destroys Sand teams, and can easily maim Hippowdon and Drilbur, all the while taking relatively littel damage from anything. Bronzor and Misdreavus are fantastic counters, as they are immune to Ground and can tank Drilbur's weaker coverage moves, stalling it down with Toxic / WoW respectively. Grass types such as Cottonee, Shroomish, Lileep, or Foongus can also wall Drilbur, resisting EQ and having the bulk to take a few rare X-Scissors. Bulky Tanks in general such as Mienfoo, Riolu, Porygon, or Shellder also do a great job at countering Sand, as they can take a few hits and KO with SE coverage.

[JacobNinja]

To complement this, you should bear in mind that Drillbur gets X-Scizor and Shadow Claw, which can at +2 ohko pretty much every ghost or grass. The best sand counter is definitely Snover, but there are other options like Scarf Trace Porygon, which can trace sand stream, outspeed drillbur thanks to scarf, and kill it.

[Valafar123]

Originally Posted by Fat blarajan

I mean if you're going to operate on no Flying resist, it should be understandable that you get donked by Krow. Drifloon beats you too.

'tis a fair point.

Drifloon I have never had an issue with. It's a fantastic pokemon though.

Originally Posted by Fat JacobNinja

To complement this, you should bear in mind that Drillbur gets X-Scizor and Shadow Claw, which can at +2 ohko pretty much every ghost or grass. The best sand counter is definitely Snover, but there are other options like Scarf Trace Porygon, which can trace sand stream, outspeed drillbur thanks to scarf, and kill it.

There are a few ways to beat it.

Koffing walls Drilbur's entire set. It's immune to EQ, it resists X-Scissor and Shadow Claw is at best a 3HKO depending on the Drilbur. If they're not smart enough to switch WoW basically cripples that Drilbur forever.

Ferroseed can comfortably take at least one attack and retalliate with Seed Bomb which, more often than not, kill Drilbur (especially the Orb sets).

I'm fairly sure Foongus can live a hit and then retalliate with Giga Drain leaving you with a Toxic-Proof sleep inducer to clean up their defensive core later on.

[Good_Luck!]

**** Murkrow (Shellder) (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Skill Link
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 36 Spd / 116 HP / 76 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Rock Blast
- Ice Shard
- Shell Smash

The problem with your Shellder is the EV spread. Shellder is a Physical Tank and its SpD is low as hell meaning that even with an Evio and EV investment it won't survive neutral special hits (and will take a chunk out of resisted ones like Magnemite's Flash Cannon). The HP investment is also fairly redundant as with a -1 Def it won't matter if you have one or two points extra in HP. Speed is also very lacking as you want to outspeed standard Scarf Murkrow's Sucker Punch which hits 27 Spe, IIRC; your Shellder has 11 Spe, 22 after a SS, which is JUST enough to outspeed Scarf Snover but if you are looking for a Murkrow check try the spread suggested in the analysis: 236 Atk/36 Def/196Spd Jolly. This hits 28 Spe after a SS. That way you can use faster physical attackers as set up bait and defeat ScarfKrow with Ice Shard before a Sucker Punch. You have to be careful, though as even with this Defensive investment, Shellder is 2HKOed by Brave Bird and, also, if for some reason you misplay and put a Scarf from Missy on opposing Standard Murkrow you risk a speed tie.

Indeed you have nothing to switch into Flying attacks so Magnemite would be better over Shellder.

[Valafar123]

Originally Posted by Fat Good_Luck!

The problem with your Shellder is the EV spread. Shellder is a Physical Tank and its SpD is low as hell meaning that even with an Evio and EV investment it won't survive neutral special hits (and will take a chunk out of resisted ones like Magnemite's Flash Cannon). The HP investment is also fairly redundant as with a -1 Def it won't matter if you have one or two points extra in HP. Speed is also very lacking as you want to outspeed standard Scarf Murkrow's Sucker Punch which hits 27 Spe, IIRC; your Shellder has 11 Spe, 22 after a SS, which is JUST enough to outspeed Scarf Snover but if you are looking for a Murkrow check try the spread suggested in the analysis: 236 Atk/36 Def/196Spd Jolly. This hits 28 Spe after a SS. That way you can use faster physical attackers as set up bait and defeat ScarfKrow with Ice Shard before a Sucker Punch. You have to be careful, though as even with this Defensive investment, Shellder is 2HKOed by Brave Bird and, also, if for some reason you misplay and put a Scarf from Missy on opposing Standard Murkrow you risk a speed tie.

Indeed you have nothing to switch into Flying attacks so Magnemite would be better over Shellder.

Thank you for the stats.

Indeed Magnemite has been serving me rather well and has fully replaced Abra. I use it mainly as a pivot and scout as well as to get free kills on unsuspecting pokemon.

I'm running a slightly unorthodox set and I'm in love with it.

I've also employed Hippopotas for now since it deals with an awful lot of set-up pokemon and Murk, as well as virtually all physical attackers. The sand is a bit of a liability honestly, but oh well.

Back up to 1730ish rating, which is nice. Having a much easier time now that 4/6 of my team is dedicated towards dealing with one OP Poke. -.-

[Lunatic Lies]

I was just looking around the other meta-game threads and was wondering if LC is ever going to get or has a chance to get a Premiere League up?

[Hawkstar]

The Little Cup Premier League is in the works right now, and will be up as soon as we're ready to post the thread. Get excited, everyone!

[Dcae]

There's gonna be LC Premier League? Sounds awesome, I'd definitely go for it.

Just wondering, when do you expect the sign-ups to be up?

[supersie]

This seems like the best place to post this.

so if in 6th gen something like abosl or heracross got an evolution would they become LC pokemoN

[McRider]

Ye, if they won't have a pre-evolution but they will be ban and they won't have evolutions without pre-evolution anyway

[JacobNinja]

Yes, anything that can obtained at level 5 and evolve can be used in lc, unless it is banned. However, pokemon with stats like that would probably instantly become suspects and swiftly be banned

[Scarface]

Why murkrow and misdreavus don't are listed here: http://www.smogon.com/bw/tiers/lc? But in Showdown people use them in LC.

[Hawkstar]

They are listed in a "higher" tier, which is NU, because they are both useful outside of Little Cup in the level 100 tiers, which always take precedence when assigning what tier they belong to. They are both legal in Little Cup, but are used enough in NU to be a part of it.

[ihatesmogan]

IS tangla allowed in LC?

[The Kyle]

Originally Posted by Fat ihatesmogan

IS tangla allowed in LC?

tangela is banned from lc

[ABfloww]

Tangela is not allowed in LC, its only usable in NU and above.