(UU) Venomoth and Pals (Remastered)

Xelacalle · Jul 28th, 2012, 11:31:36 PM

This team has undergone various changes since it was posted that were previously not reflected in this topic. They have now been edited in - bold text highlighting the changes and original sets being hidden.

Introduction
Hey Smogon, I'm here with another RMT, this time for UU. To anyone who hasn't seen either of my other threads, I always build my teams in a certain way. I look at a Poke who is neglected or new to a tier, or a moveset which is weird in some way, and I build the team around that.

I hadn't made a UU team in some time and decided I wanted one. So I look down the list of Pokemon in UU on PS and I notice Venomoth down in BL2 - not quite good enough for UU, not quite bad enough for RU. So I figure I'll try him out.

First Look

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Team Building Process

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In-depth

Silver (Venomoth) @ Leftovers (Originally Life Orb)
Trait: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sleep Powder
- Quiver Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Giga Drain (Originally Psychic)
Venomoth is used as a competent set-up sweeper. After one Quiver Dance, this Venomoth will outspeed most things that aren't Scarfed or Sharpedo and do work with Tinted Lens. Sleep Dance is useful for making it safer to set up, but is best used on a switch because, in my experience, it almost always misses. Psychic is for coverage, obviously, and I figure that with Tinted Lens it works well with the STAB Bug Buzz. The 0 attack IVs are to minimize confusion damage, it's something which I learnt (somewhere), and I remember to do it occasionally. Venomoth's Life Orb was replaced with Leftovers as I found Venomoth's naturally poor bulk (for UU) was only compounded by the Life Orb recoil. Giga Drain also added to help Venomoth potentially sweep.

Blayde (Kabutops) @ Leftovers
Trait: Battle Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def (Originally 120Atk / 136 Def)
Impish Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
- Waterfall
- Rock Slide
Kabutops's job is to spin and set up rocks. The EV spread is to give it plenty of bulk but some offensive presence. However, I have had trouble doing anything with it offensively as it is so easily checked by anything which might carry HP Grass, or the omnipresent Roserade. However, there are those rare occasions when it can catch Pokemon out on the switch - especially Froslass when your opponent is trying to spinblock. I was finding that Kabutops often did very little and its offensive presence did not matter, so I gave it more defence investment to help it survive hits so it could get up rocks and spin, its primary purposes.

Soulfyre (Chandelure) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252SAtk / 4SDef / 252Spd
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Energy Ball
- Hidden Power [Ground]
Chandelure was Zapdos's replacement in my team. While not being able to Volt Switch for the offensive pressure, very few pokes in UU can take all of Chandelure's attacks well. When a Pokemon is taken down, Soulfyre comes in and almost always wrecks something. Chandelure also has the advantage of being immune to Fighting-type attacks, something which had always been a problem to this team. However, it is weak to Rock and Ground - a potential problem.

...

Hatter (Honchkrow) @ Life Orb
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 252Atk / 4Def / 252Spd
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Sucker Punch
- Roost
- Substitute
Bisharp was another Pokemon which was removed completely from my team. However, it was replaced by something not so different. Honchcrow can still do the same job of setting up on a switch (albeit with a Sub, not SD) and Sucker Punching. Only, Honchkrow is more powerful, faster, and has recovery, even though it isn't very bulky. Honchcrow also removes a Fighting weakness from the team, and gives it another Ground immunity, although at the cost of a Rock weakness.

...

Darquesse (Umbreon) @ Leftovers
Trait: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def
Careful Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell
- Payback
Umbreon - the Pokemon that I am most dubious about, and yet the most reluctant to get rid of. While the shared fighting type weakness is a major problem, it does mean that I can get free wishes passed to Venomoth with relative ease. And there's one thing - it can Wish Pass. Oh, and Heal Bell too. Heal Bell is one of my favourite moves. I need to have a Special Wall but, as far as I can tell, there are no good ones which don't share weaknesses with more than one of my other Pokes! Other Pokemon I considered for this slot included Milotic, Roserade and Lanturn. Darquesse has proven herself, and remained the same. I had no reason to change her.

Swish (Flygon) @ Choice Band
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252Atk / 4Def / 4Spd
Jolly Nature
- U-Turn
- Outrage
- Fire Punch
- Earthquake
Flygon is the most recent addition to the team. After playing a few rated games on Showdown, and Wifi battles besides, I realised I desperately needed something that resisted Rock... but that it couldn't be weak to Ground or Fighting. Eventually, I settled on Flygon, after considering Gligar but rejecting him for his lack of offensive presence, and, in the few battles he's been in, he's proven his worth.
For a time, all I changed was to use a Choice Band on Azelf rather than the Scarf, but it didn't help much.

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Major Issues

Pokemon such as Hitmonlee, Mienshao and Rhyperior still present a huge threat to this team, but they can be worked around.

There is one pretty big issue with my team - this guy:

He may only be RU, but he can ruin my team - as can others with the same coverage.

Anything with access to Rock and Fighting type attacks can hit super-effectively on 5/6 of my team. Ouch. Unburden Hitmonlee also happens to be ridiculously fast. Possibly fast enough to outspeed Azelf, making that 6/6.

Similarly, Ground/Rock will hit 4/6 for super-effective damage.

Conclusion

So that is my first stab at a serious UU team. It definitely has flaws, so feel free to rip it apart. Any changes to pokemon, EVs, abilities, movesets etc are welcome, but I would like to keep Venomoth if at all possible.
Thank you in advance for your help :)

Notes

Flygon is a little up in the air. I don't feel like he has much synergy in the team, but he seems to work well the majority of the time. Thoughts?

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New Importable

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Old Importable

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morningsun · Jul 30th, 2012, 11:41:13 AM

Don't get rid of zapdos. It's your only solid water counter. Try putting air slash on zapdos. Or maybe replace umbreon with togekiss. If possible, try eliminating another Pokemon instead of zapdos for mismagius. You could try aqua jet on kabutops if hitmonlee is really giving you that much trouble. The ability to have a priority water type move might also help with the faster ground/rock types. You may also want to take armaldo into consideration over kabutops, as it isn't weak to fighting type moves and should be able to tank a hit from a non-STAB rock type move.

Xelacalle · Jul 30th, 2012, 5:29:30 PM

The problem I have with Armaldo is that it's weak to rock and doesn't resist fire. What would you suggest taking off of Zapdos for Air Slash? Togekiss is also weak to Rock, and I don't think it's that good of a wall...
Recent ideas I've had include using Choice Scarf Chandelure instead of Zapdos (and giving Azelf back its Choice Band) and Honchkrow instead of Bisharp. While this means more Rock weakness, it gives me something that's immune to fighting as well as losing the poke 4x Weak to fight.

TIO · Jul 31st, 2012, 6:41:55 PM

Snorlax is a good special wall, FYI.
It can use RestTalk with it's 160 base hp and 110 base SpD, and it's risky for fighting-types to come in on it, due to a brutal 110 Att stat and STAB return and body slam. (Parahax can be VERY annoying.)

Xelacalle · Jul 31st, 2012, 9:21:07 PM

I know Snorlax can be a great Special Wall. And the problem isn't really worrying about fighting types switching in... It's about being able to switch into them :p At the moment I have major issues with a lot of fighting types because they can hit both of my walls very hard and I can't get a safe switch due to coverage.
With the team as it is above, when faced with a fighting type-pokemon, I will usually have to let something die and then switch into Azelf. That's all I can really do. If Azelf is gone, and the Poke isn't Choice-locked into something then I'm pretty much done for.

morningsun · Aug 6th, 2012, 11:22:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Xelacalle

The problem I have with Armaldo is that it's weak to rock and doesn't resist fire. What would you suggest taking off of Zapdos for Air Slash? Togekiss is also weak to Rock, and I don't think it's that good of a wall...
Recent ideas I've had include using Choice Scarf Chandelure instead of Zapdos (and giving Azelf back its Choice Band) and Honchkrow instead of Bisharp. While this means more Rock weakness, it gives me something that's immune to fighting as well as losing the poke 4x Weak to fight.

Eliminating zapdos is a terrible idea. I suggest air slash over thunderbolt solely because the ability for a choice user to scout is invaluable. Try xatu instead of bisharp. Magic bounce helps a lot and instead of being quad weak you'll quad resist. Replace the azelf instead with the scarfed chandelure if you really want it. However I advise against using it. You may want to consider using, one of my personal favorites, Heracross over bisharp, or even umbreon for that matter. Your team is so offensive that maybe a defensive Pokemon just throws of your momentum.

Xelacalle · Aug 9th, 2012, 4:32:27 PM

I'm definitely interested in having a look at some of these pokes. However, seeing as it has been quite a while since I posted this, the team has changed a little now. I think what I will do is place the team as it as now in another hide section, and replace it with what it is now. Then people can have a look at that, idk.

Explorer · Aug 11th, 2012, 9:22:29 AM

There are 2 adjustments you should make:

You said you originally had Psychic in place of Giga Drain on Venomoth; you should revert back to Psychic to deal with Fighting-types, in particular, you can work towards outspending and KOing Mienshao.

Second, on Chandelure HP Fighting is a better choice than HP Ground, and it also gives the classic Ghost/Fighting coverage, and you can still hit Rock-types and Ground-types very hard (thanks to Energy Ball).

Xelacalle · Aug 12th, 2012, 11:04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Explorer

There are 2 adjustments you should make:

You said you originally had Psychic in place of Giga Drain on Venomoth; you should revert back to Psychic to deal with Fighting-types, in particular, you can work towards outspending and KOing Mienshao.

Second, on Chandelure HP Fighting is a better choice than HP Ground, and it also gives the classic Ghost/Fighting coverage, and you can still hit Rock-types and Ground-types very hard (thanks to Energy Ball).

I'm not convinced by Psychic simply because I wouldn't be willing to leave Venomoth in on Mienshao before getting two Quiver Dances (for fear of being outsped with a scarf and hit with Stone Edge), unless I knew it wasn't scarfed. (Even then, I would want +1)

After +2 Bug Buzz OHKOs with Tinted Lens. And I prefer Giga Drain's recovery anyway.

As for Chandelure, I will change to HP Fighting as HP Ground was originally there because I use it in OU a lot and it hits Heatran a LOT harder (unless air balloon, of course, but it's not so hard to make sure it's popped.)

Jul 28th, 2012, 11:31:36 PM	#1
Xelacalle Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 63 UK	Venomoth and Pals (Remastered) This team has undergone various changes since it was posted that were previously not reflected in this topic. They have now been edited in - bold text highlighting the changes and original sets being hidden. Introduction Hey Smogon, I'm here with another RMT, this time for UU. To anyone who hasn't seen either of my other threads, I always build my teams in a certain way. I look at a Poke who is neglected or new to a tier, or a moveset which is weird in some way, and I build the team around that. I hadn't made a UU team in some time and decided I wanted one. So I look down the list of Pokemon in UU on PS and I notice Venomoth down in BL2 - not quite good enough for UU, not quite bad enough for RU. So I figure I'll try him out. First Look ... Originally... Team Building Process ... So, obviously, I start with the oft-neglected Venomoth, my Pokemon of choice for this team. I decide I will use an offensive set for it, using Quiver Dance and Tinted Lens, and I work around that. What I did next is I got my pen and my paper and listed all of Venomoth's weaknesses. It's weak to Stealth Rocks, along with Fire, Psychic and Flying. However, it does boast 4x Resistances to Fighting and Grass. I decide what I need next is a Spinner with good synergy with Venomoth. I end up with Kabutops. Now, Kabutops is weak to Electric, Grass, Ground and Fighting attacks (I also originally thought Venomoth was weak to Ground) and, noticing Zapdos's DW ability, (Lightningrod - which I realise now is unreleased but Zapdos works well all the same), I added him and made him my Choice Scarf user. Now I was noticing a growing rock-type weakness, and also decided to deal with that. So I took a look at the list of UU pokes again, and found Bisharp. I have always enjoyed STAB Sucker Punch in the past and so immediately grabbed him for the team. Now... here is where I started having problems. I wanted a Special Wall. So I looked at the list. The three main special walls that caught my eye were Umbreon, Milotic and Roserade. And therein lay the problem. No matter what I chose, it was to be bad, synergy-wise. Umbreon would share the Fighting weakness of Kabutops and Bisharp. Milotic, the Grass and Electric weaknesses of Kabutops and Roserade, the Fire of Bisharp and Venomoth and the Psychic of Venomoth. In the end, I reluctantly chose Umbreon, due to its ability to Wish-pass and Heal Bell. (afterthough: Amoonguss could be interesting, but lacks Wish and Heal Bell, and is weak to Fire.) Finally, I decided I wanted a Choice Banded Poke, seeing as I had two special attackers and one physical. For this job, I decided upon Azelf, as it has an immunity to Ground, which two of my Pokemon are weak to, and a resistance to Fighting, which three of my Pokemon are weak to. Later, I changed its Choice Band to a Choice Scarf, and Zapdos's Scarf to Specs. In-depth Silver (Venomoth) @ Leftovers (Originally Life Orb) Trait: Tinted Lens EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd Timid Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Sleep Powder - Quiver Dance - Bug Buzz - Giga Drain (Originally Psychic) Venomoth is used as a competent set-up sweeper. After one Quiver Dance, this Venomoth will outspeed most things that aren't Scarfed or Sharpedo and do work with Tinted Lens. Sleep Dance is useful for making it safer to set up, but is best used on a switch because, in my experience, it almost always misses. Psychic is for coverage, obviously, and I figure that with Tinted Lens it works well with the STAB Bug Buzz. The 0 attack IVs are to minimize confusion damage, it's something which I learnt (somewhere), and I remember to do it occasionally. Venomoth's Life Orb was replaced with Leftovers as I found Venomoth's naturally poor bulk (for UU) was only compounded by the Life Orb recoil. Giga Drain also added to help Venomoth potentially sweep. Blayde (Kabutops) @ Leftovers Trait: Battle Armor EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def (Originally 120Atk / 136 Def) Impish Nature - Rapid Spin - Stealth Rock - Waterfall - Rock Slide Kabutops's job is to spin and set up rocks. The EV spread is to give it plenty of bulk but some offensive presence. However, I have had trouble doing anything with it offensively as it is so easily checked by anything which might carry HP Grass, or the omnipresent Roserade. However, there are those rare occasions when it can catch Pokemon out on the switch - especially Froslass when your opponent is trying to spinblock. I was finding that Kabutops often did very little and its offensive presence did not matter, so I gave it more defence investment to help it survive hits so it could get up rocks and spin, its primary purposes. Soulfyre (Chandelure) @ Choice Scarf Trait: Flash Fire EVs: 252SAtk / 4SDef / 252Spd Timid Nature - Fire Blast - Shadow Ball - Energy Ball - Hidden Power [Ground] Chandelure was Zapdos's replacement in my team. While not being able to Volt Switch for the offensive pressure, very few pokes in UU can take all of Chandelure's attacks well. When a Pokemon is taken down, Soulfyre comes in and almost always wrecks something. Chandelure also has the advantage of being immune to Fighting-type attacks, something which had always been a problem to this team. However, it is weak to Rock and Ground - a potential problem. ... Thundaga (Zapdos) @ Choice Specs Trait: Pressure EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd Timid Nature - Thunderbolt - Volt Switch - Heat Wave - Hidden Power [Grass] Next in the lineup is Thundaga, my Zapdos. Originally sporting the Choice Scarf and HP Ice, these were quickly changed as I realised Azelf is a more effective revenge killer and that Swamperts are everywhere. Since then, Zapdos's job as been to switch in on Grass, Fighting or Ground type moves and either do as much damage as possible or give me some nice offensive momentum with Volt Switch. As soon as Lightningrod is released, that is what I'll be using as it will add some more synergy with Kabutops (assuming it doesn't make any of my moves illegal.) Hatter (Honchkrow) @ Life Orb Trait: Moxie EVs: 252Atk / 4Def / 252Spd Adamant Nature - Brave Bird - Sucker Punch - Roost - Substitute Bisharp was another Pokemon which was removed completely from my team. However, it was replaced by something not so different. Honchcrow can still do the same job of setting up on a switch (albeit with a Sub, not SD) and Sucker Punching. Only, Honchkrow is more powerful, faster, and has recovery, even though it isn't very bulky. Honchcrow also removes a Fighting weakness from the team, and gives it another Ground immunity, although at the cost of a Rock weakness. ... Gauntlett (Bisharp) @ Leftovers Trait: Defiant EVs: 252 Atk / 120 HP / 136 Spd Adamant Nature - Substitute - Swords Dance - Sucker Punch - Iron Head Bisharp is amazing. He has good defence, and so can Sub down fairly easily when faced with one of his many resistances. Then he can SD, and wreck havoc with Sucker Punch and, if necessary, Iron Head. Bisharp does this job ridiculously well. Too often I have played awfully and got myself into a bad spot, and proceeded to sweep most of the other team with just Sucker Punch. While it is unfortunate that he comes with an undesirable 4x weakness to Fighting, Venomoth conveniently alleviates that with it's lovely 4x resistance. Nice! The EV spread is to maximize attack while giving him a little more bulk, and enough speed to flinch-hax walls. And yes, I know, it's that 120 / 136 split again. I do that a lot, for some reason. Darquesse (Umbreon) @ Leftovers Trait: Synchronize EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def Careful Nature - Wish - Protect - Heal Bell - Payback Umbreon - the Pokemon that I am most dubious about, and yet the most reluctant to get rid of. While the shared fighting type weakness is a major problem, it does mean that I can get free wishes passed to Venomoth with relative ease. And there's one thing - it can Wish Pass. Oh, and Heal Bell too. Heal Bell is one of my favourite moves. I need to have a Special Wall but, as far as I can tell, there are no good ones which don't share weaknesses with more than one of my other Pokes! Other Pokemon I considered for this slot included Milotic, Roserade and Lanturn. Darquesse has proven herself, and remained the same. I had no reason to change her. Swish (Flygon) @ Choice Band Trait: Levitate EVs: 252Atk / 4Def / 4Spd Jolly Nature - U-Turn - Outrage - Fire Punch - Earthquake Flygon is the most recent addition to the team. After playing a few rated games on Showdown, and Wifi battles besides, I realised I desperately needed something that resisted Rock... but that it couldn't be weak to Ground or Fighting. Eventually, I settled on Flygon, after considering Gligar but rejecting him for his lack of offensive presence, and, in the few battles he's been in, he's proven his worth. For a time, all I changed was to use a Choice Band on Azelf rather than the Scarf, but it didn't help much. ... Sollux (Azelf) @ Choice Scarf Trait: Levitate EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd Adamant Nature - U-turn - Zen Headbutt - ThunderPunch - Ice Punch Not much to say about Azelf, really. He is my Scarfer and revenge killer. He was added because he resists Fighting type moves and is immune to Ground type ones, two of the major weaknesses in my team. Besides that, he has some nice coverage and the always-appreciated ability to give me switch advantage. Major Issues Pokemon such as Hitmonlee, Mienshao and Rhyperior still present a huge threat to this team, but they can be worked around. There is one pretty big issue with my team - this guy: He may only be RU, but he can ruin my team - as can others with the same coverage. Anything with access to Rock and Fighting type attacks can hit super-effectively on 5/6 of my team. Ouch. Unburden Hitmonlee also happens to be ridiculously fast. Possibly fast enough to outspeed Azelf, making that 6/6. Similarly, Ground/Rock will hit 4/6 for super-effective damage. Conclusion So that is my first stab at a serious UU team. It definitely has flaws, so feel free to rip it apart. Any changes to pokemon, EVs, abilities, movesets etc are welcome, but I would like to keep Venomoth if at all possible. Thank you in advance for your help :) Notes Flygon is a little up in the air. I don't feel like he has much synergy in the team, but he seems to work well the majority of the time. Thoughts? ... Changes (as well as titles) will be in bold. When I made this team, and for a few days after, I considered ghost-types. I considered Chandelure, but that was no good because it's weak to Ground and Rock. I considered Dusclops, but I didn't really want another defensive poke. Just now today I remembered that Misamgius is a Ghost type in this tier which may be a better fit than Zapdos. Thoughts? New Importable ... Silver (Venomoth) @ Leftovers Trait: Tinted Lens EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd Timid Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Sleep Powder - Bug Buzz - Giga Drain - Quiver Dance Blayde (Kabutops) @ Leftovers Trait: Battle Armor EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def Impish Nature - Rapid Spin - Stealth Rock - Waterfall - Rock Slide Soulfyre (Chandelure) @ Choice Scarf Trait: Flash Fire EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd Timid Nature - Energy Ball - Shadow Ball - Fire Blast - Hidden Power [Ground] Hatter (Honchkrow) @ Life Orb Trait: Moxie EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd Adamant Nature - Brave Bird - Substitute - Sucker Punch - Roost Darquesse (Umbreon) @ Leftovers Trait: Synchronize EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def Careful Nature - Wish - Protect - Heal Bell - Payback Swish (Flygon) @ Choice Band Trait: Levitate EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd Jolly Nature - U-turn - Outrage - Earthquake - Fire Punch Old Importable ... Silver (Venomoth) @ Life Orb Trait: Tinted Lens EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd Timid Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Sleep Powder - Quiver Dance - Bug Buzz - Psychic Blayde (Kabutops) @ Leftovers Trait: Battle Armor EVs: 252 HP / 120 Atk / 136 Def Impish Nature - Rapid Spin - Stealth Rock - Waterfall - Rock Slide Thundaga (Zapdos) @ Choice Specs Trait: Pressure EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd Timid Nature - Thunderbolt - Volt Switch - Heat Wave - Hidden Power [Grass] Gauntlett (Bisharp) @ Leftovers Trait: Defiant EVs: 252 Atk / 120 HP / 136 Spd Adamant Nature - Substitute - Swords Dance - Sucker Punch - Iron Head Darquesse (Umbreon) @ Leftovers Trait: Synchronize EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def Careful Nature - Wish - Protect - Heal Bell - Payback Sollux (Azelf) @ Choice Scarf Trait: Levitate EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd Adamant Nature - U-turn - Zen Headbutt - ThunderPunch - Ice Punch __________________ If I edit something, this is probably the reason: Making myself seem more intelligent than I actually am. My Youtube, wherein I talk and say 'um' too much. *I use legal hacks.* Last edited by Xelacalle; Aug 9th, 2012 at 5:14:46 PM. Reason: Added Importable, new note

Jul 30th, 2012, 5:29:30 PM	#3
Xelacalle Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 63 UK	The problem I have with Armaldo is that it's weak to rock and doesn't resist fire. What would you suggest taking off of Zapdos for Air Slash? Togekiss is also weak to Rock, and I don't think it's that good of a wall... Recent ideas I've had include using Choice Scarf Chandelure instead of Zapdos (and giving Azelf back its Choice Band) and Honchkrow instead of Bisharp. While this means more Rock weakness, it gives me something that's immune to fighting as well as losing the poke 4x Weak to fight. __________________ If I edit something, this is probably the reason: Making myself seem more intelligent than I actually am. My Youtube, wherein I talk and say 'um' too much. *I use legal hacks.*

Jul 31st, 2012, 9:21:07 PM	#5
Xelacalle Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 63 UK	I know Snorlax can be a great Special Wall. And the problem isn't really worrying about fighting types switching in... It's about being able to switch into them :p At the moment I have major issues with a lot of fighting types because they can hit both of my walls very hard and I can't get a safe switch due to coverage. With the team as it is above, when faced with a fighting type-pokemon, I will usually have to let something die and then switch into Azelf. That's all I can really do. If Azelf is gone, and the Poke isn't Choice-locked into something then I'm pretty much done for. __________________ If I edit something, this is probably the reason: Making myself seem more intelligent than I actually am. My Youtube, wherein I talk and say 'um' too much. *I use legal hacks.*

Aug 9th, 2012, 4:32:27 PM	#7
Xelacalle Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 63 UK	I'm definitely interested in having a look at some of these pokes. However, seeing as it has been quite a while since I posted this, the team has changed a little now. I think what I will do is place the team as it as now in another hide section, and replace it with what it is now. Then people can have a look at that, idk. __________________ If I edit something, this is probably the reason: Making myself seem more intelligent than I actually am. My Youtube, wherein I talk and say 'um' too much. *I use legal hacks.*

Jul 30th, 2012, 11:41:13 AM	#2
morningsun Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 100 A place where time is too short and stops for no one	Don't get rid of zapdos. It's your only solid water counter. Try putting air slash on zapdos. Or maybe replace umbreon with togekiss. If possible, try eliminating another Pokemon instead of zapdos for mismagius. You could try aqua jet on kabutops if hitmonlee is really giving you that much trouble. The ability to have a priority water type move might also help with the faster ground/rock types. You may also want to take armaldo into consideration over kabutops, as it isn't weak to fighting type moves and should be able to tank a hit from a non-STAB rock type move.

Jul 31st, 2012, 6:41:55 PM	#4
TIO Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 734	Snorlax is a good special wall, FYI. It can use RestTalk with it's 160 base hp and 110 base SpD, and it's risky for fighting-types to come in on it, due to a brutal 110 Att stat and STAB return and body slam. (Parahax can be VERY annoying.)

Aug 11th, 2012, 9:22:29 AM	#8
Explorer Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 275	There are 2 adjustments you should make: You said you originally had Psychic in place of Giga Drain on Venomoth; you should revert back to Psychic to deal with Fighting-types, in particular, you can work towards outspending and KOing Mienshao. Second, on Chandelure HP Fighting is a better choice than HP Ground, and it also gives the classic Ghost/Fighting coverage, and you can still hit Rock-types and Ground-types very hard (thanks to Energy Ball).