Venomoth Discussion Thread

[Vemane]

Why this little bugger is not #1 in usage is absolutely beyond me. It can singlehandedly win game after game, with virtually no skill required. Being the only (viable) pokemon able to pass quiver dance, it provides every special attacker, of which there are a plethora of, with the boosts that will have them plowing through teams in a heartbeat.


Venomoth @ Focus Sash
Trait: Tinted Lens
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Timid Nature
- Baton Pass
- Quiver Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Sleep Powder

This right here is the only set that you will need to wreak havoc. Completely unprepared for and extremely easy to pull off, there is almost nothing that can prevent you from doing your job. Sleep Powder on turn 1, Quiver Dance once or twice, and then pass to any special sweeper. It is simple, it is dangerous, it is effective.

Example Team:
What better to showcase Venomoth's ease of use and outstanding capabilities than an example team?


Venomoth @ Focus Sash
Trait: Tinted Lens
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Baton Pass
- Quiver Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Sleep Powder


Meloetta @ Expert Belt
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Psyshock
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Psychic


Raikou @ Life Orb
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Rash Nature
- Aura Sphere
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt


Nidoking (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Earth Power
- Fire Blast
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt


Shaymin @ Life Orb
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Seed Flare
- Earth Power
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Ice]


Gorebyss @ White Herb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Shell Smash
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Baton Pass

Basically, set up with venomoth and then pass to whichever sweeper will either have the easiest time or will be able to take the post-pass attack the best. If a crobat is waiting to brave bird, send out raikou. If a mismagious is going to shadow ball, send out meloetta. When in doubt, send out nidoking, as it is by far the most potent of the lot and can 1hko nearly the entirety of the meta. Gorebyss serves as a back up passer, as well as a poke to absorb strong fire attacks (think darmanitan)

Why hasn't venomoth received the recognition it deserves? Will this change?

[cim]

It totally has gotten recognition. It's on the A-rank list in the Viability thread and was the subject of a very popular RMT.

By the way, in your example team, I think having a Shell Smash passer is redundant when you could just pass two Quiver Dances. I mean, Wonder Skin lets you get away with it.

Also, Tinted Lens is simply way worse than Wonder Skin.

[superbadd]

I had my doubts on venomoth at first, but after using it, I have to say this thing is phenomenal, truly the most underrated threat in uu atm. I've been passing the boosts to special victini who's also pretty amazing. He has the bulk to survive quite a bit of priority along with the power to decimate everything @+2.

The best EV spreed imo is 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe with a Timid nature. At +1 Venomoth can outspeed crobat and at +2 it outspeeds every scarf user in the tier. The defense maximizes on its bulk allowing to survive random priority attacks and even scarf flygon's outrage!

[Blue_Star]

venomoth is insanely broken. i've been getting free wins on the ladder with this beast. wonder skim now affects Roar and Taunt, so the moth simply can't be countered. good thing it's not used enough, though. but if it does become used, i recommend a ban...

[Uomo Solo]

Well is the one of best quick passer on the game, i used it and it s very difficult to stop, I used Nidoking and Virizion like recipients and won 80% of the battle in rank 4 or 5-0. I suggested much time ago to ban it xD Anyway there are pokemon in UU tier that are more useful and this is the reason because is not 1# in usage.

[Vemane]

Originally Posted by Fat cim

It totally has gotten recognition. It's on the A-rank list in the Viability thread and was the subject of a very popular RMT.

By the way, in your example team, I think having a Shell Smash passer is redundant when you could just pass two Quiver Dances. I mean, Wonder Skin lets you get away with it.

Also, Tinted Lens is simply way worse than Wonder Skin.

Imo, it should DEFINITELY be S-tier, and its usage should be MUCH higher than it is.

| 74 | Venomoth | 343 | 1.428% | 285 | 1.432% |

This is astounding to me

Gorebyss' job is not to replace venomoth, its to either back it up in the case of hax or a failed sweep (as in, another try, in essense)

And I disagree on the ability. Wonder skin has its merits, but tinted lens allows venomoth to actually DO something if its passing attempts have been thwarted or it is the last pokemon, or even just to get rid of an annoying threat. (ie. 252 +2 SpAtk Venomoth Bug Buzz vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Darmanitan: 105.13% - 123.93%)

The best EV spreed imo is 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe with a Timid nature. At +1 Venomoth can outspeed crobat and at +2 it outspeeds every scarf user in the tier. The defense maximizes on its bulk allowing to survive random priority attacks and even scarf flygon's outrage!

I personally prefer the 252/252+ spread simply for the sake of outspeeding scarf darmanitan who, along with snorlax, is one of the only threats to this kind of team.

Anyway there are pokemon in UU tier that are more useful and this is the reason because is not 1# in usage.

I disagree wholeheartedly. There is not a single pokemon capable of such immediate and skilless destruction than venomoth in my opinion. It simply provides much too easy wins and is, to me, quite the broken little butterfly. The only thing preventing venomoth from being suspected, I would think, is its usage.

[cim]

Okay, guys, you are seriously overhyping Venomoth here. Yes, wonder skin means you can't phase it, and it has a sleeping move. It's clearly very, very good. But it's not unbeatable at all. You can attack it directly (sup Chandelure), or you can phaze the recipient, or you can set up Stealth Rocks... It is not "uncounterable".

I think, much like Moxie Heracross, Kingdra, and Roserade before it, it will get popular, the metagame will respond, and we will move on.

[Vemane]

Originally Posted by Fat cim

Okay, guys, you are seriously overhyping Venomoth here. Yes, wonder skin means you can't phase it, and it has a sleeping move. It's clearly very, very good. But it's not unbeatable at all. You can attack it directly (sup Chandelure), or you can phaze the recipient, or you can set up Stealth Rocks... It is not "uncounterable".

I think, much like Moxie Heracross, Kingdra, and Roserade before it, it will get popular, the metagame will respond, and we will move on.

It's not venomoth that is the "good" one though

It is the pokemon it supports.

For example:
1. Venomoth vs. Scarf Chandy
2. Chandy uses fire blast, venomoth down to sash as it QDs
3. Venomoth passes to nidoking and it tanks the hit (+1 spdef) or it can sleep powder chandy and QD again and probably get nido in unharmed and even stronger
4. Nidoking sweeps the entire team

Or even better, veno could pass to gorebyss who can surf or smash and pass to something else to have an even cleaner sweep

Venomoth can be stopped, but sometimes (almost all the time) the pokemon it passes to simply can't

[cim]

Honestly that situation is entirely your fault for not putting hazards down, what kind of self respecting team in the 5th generation (1) doesn't have stealth rock and (2) can't outspeed or take a single hit from a +1 nidoking, which is Not That Fast for boosted standards

Again, you're highly overrating Venomoth, which is impressive because it's already really good. I don't want to minimize how good it is, but you're being ridiculous.

[Vemane]

Originally Posted by Fat cim

Honestly that situation is entirely your fault for not putting hazards down, what kind of self respecting team in the 5th generation (1) doesn't have stealth rock and (2) can't outspeed or take a single hit from a +1 nidoking, which is Not That Fast for boosted standards

Again, you're highly overrating Venomoth, which is impressive because it's already really good. I don't want to minimize how good it is, but you're being ridiculous.

Venomoth goes out first, stealth rock doesn't make a difference.

And usually nido is at +2 because of sleep powder.

I feel like if I'm overrating the moth, it isn't by a lot, at least from my perspective, because the little bug, in my opinion, is simply ridiculous, moreso because of the utter lack of skill needed to pull it off.

It isn't that it is this absolutely perfect pokemon, simply a very very good offensive supporter within the uu environment

[LionKingMax]

Taunt.

Veno is good, the best Baton Passer of UU hands down, but I don't see him as dangerous as people claim him to be. Wonder skin is shaky at best, 50% chances to dodge phazing moves (Does it block Dragon Tail)? Only on Veno though, the BP receiver will still get phazed.

Also, Crobat is a good check (It make sure you can't lead with Veno, and you just need to set up rocks afterwards) and is in a lot of team (because it checks so much stuff).

Also, sleep powder is 75% accurate, meaning that ''hax'' will ruin you 1/4 of the time.

[kokoloko*]

As much as I love Venomoth and think it's an amazing Pokemon, this thread has taken a turn towards the retarded side of things and I don't think it's salvageable at this point.

Locking.