(VGC) The Brave and The Bold

Leahn Novash · Dec 9th, 2012, 5:09:21 AM

So, I had this team all planned, but it seems that it is in need of a little tweaking. Well, here it goes. The point of this team is to counter the Salamence / Hitmontop combo. Of all the battles I fought, at least one of those Pokemon were present, if not both. In fact, they're both present on my team, as well.

Bisharp @ Dark Gem
Ability: Defiant
EV: 252 HP, 252 ATK, 4 DEF
Nature: Adamant
Sucker Punch
Night Slash
Iron Head
Protect

Bisharp is the main counter to Intimidate teams, having its attack increased instead of lowered, and with Sucker Punch and Dark Gem, it can OHKO Latios and other dragon types that threaten Salamence.

Salamence @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EV: 4 HP, 252 ATK, 252 SPE
Nature: Adamant
Dragon Claw
Earthquake
Crunch
Protect

Salamence is the main sweeper of the team. Not only it reduces the physical attack of the other side, but it is able to outspeed and OHKO most stuff that threatens Bisharp.

Chandelure @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
EV: 252 SpA, 4 SpD, 252 SPE
Nature: Modest
Heat Wave
Shadow Ball
HP Ice
Energy Ball

Chandelure is on the team for two reasons. To soak up fighting attacks and to soak up fire attacks, both of which Bisharp are weak against. It also has Energy Ball, just in case I make a good prediction that the other side will switch a water type in, and to surprise Tyranitar switching in.

Rotom-W @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
EV: 252 HP, 252 SpA, 4 SpD
Nature: Modest
Hydro Pump
Thunderbolt
HP Ice
Protect

Rotom is here to counter Rain teams. The other three Pokemon are kind of water weak, so Rotom enters to jolt all those fish into submission with its Thunderbolt.

Abomasnow @ Focus Sash
Ability: Snow Warning
EV: 252 HP, 4 DEF, 252 SpA
Nature: Quiet
Blizzard
Giga Drain
Ice Shard
Protect

No mystery here. 0 SPE IV Abomasnow to set up hail and remove whatever other weather effect is in place. Ice Shard kills dragons, Blizzard is the standard STAB Spread Move to use under hail, with its 100% accuracy.

Hitmontop @ Fight Gem
Ability: Technician
EV: 252 HP, 252 ATK, 4 SPE
Nature: Adamant
Fake Out
Close Combat
Mach Punch
Wide Guard

Hitmontop closes the team by giving it the ability to strike hard Dark, Rock and Steel types, with its ability strengthening both Fake Out and Mach Punch for greater damage.

Golden Piloswine · Dec 9th, 2012, 12:18:23 PM

Well here's what I have to say:

Hitmontop: Why??? Technician with Close Combat, I don't understand. Also your descriptions are lacking. Why did you choose the moves that you, did, and why do you have CC, and Mach Punch on the same set.

Abomasnow: Ice Shard kills Dragons. That's not specific. Try a damage calculator, because you have no Attack Ev's invested. What kind of Dragon? Dragonite. Which often has Multiscale, which makes it's bulk even more impressive.

Rotom: Try a damage calculator, your not being specific. All you say is it just goes in there and destroys everything. There's no examples or anything.

Salamence & Chandelure, is the same thing I have above. I just need more specifics.

I like Bisharp's Defiant idea very much. I just need more info on how it does in battle, besides absorbs Intimidate.

Sorry if this message sounds rough, but you need data to back up your team, and an explanation of how it does in battle.

Leahn Novash · Dec 9th, 2012, 2:17:31 PM

As I said, the team needs tweaking.

> Hitmontop: Why???

To hit hard Dark, Rock and Steel types which otherwise resist me. Hitmontop's other abilities are Intimidate and Steadfast, which I don't feel that help enough when using a Fighting Gem. If I had a Life Orb, maybe Intimidate would be a better idea, but such item is on Salamence already, and you know, Item Clause and all that.

> Why do you have CC, and Mach Punch on the same set.

Because I don't have the resources to teach it Sucker Punch, and I don't think I will see a lot of Psychic types running away from a Fighting type to make Pursuit worth having.

I felt like it was the best option given the movepool accessible to me.

Mach Punch to hit anything that is weak to Fight and Close Combat to hit anything that is neutral to it. Fake Out's use is obvious, and Wide Guard is just common sense.

> Ice Shard kills Dragons. That's not specific.

Ice Shard is a priority move that is physical in a PokeMon built for special attacks. It won't hit hard enough anything that's not weak to Ice, so namely, Dragons. Anything else is not worth using it against, so Blizzard is the main attack power.

Ice Shard is there so I have a chance to drop any Latios that survives the first Blizzard on the second turn before it has a chance to drop Abomasnow.

> Rotom: Try a damage calculator, your not being specific.

I do not have to OHKO stuff. Rotom-W is a Water/Elec type. It resists Water attacks and it is suppereffective against them. It will hit a Kingdra with no EVs invested in SpD for 57% of its HP, on average, even under Rain. It will almost kill a Politoed, or even OHKO it on a lucky shot, and hit a Ludicolo for 52% on average.

> Salamence, is the same thing.

Dragon Claw with Life Orb is the main attack. Earthquake is just the standard coverage move. Crunch is there for Psychic types, except Cresselia. Salamence should simply run away from Cresselia.

> Chandelure, is the same thing

As I said, Chandelure is there to soak up Fighting and Fire attacks. It is meant to support Bisharp.

> I like Bisharp's Defiant idea very much. I just need more info on how it does in battle

It can almost always OHKO a Cresselia with a non-defensive nature using Sucker Punch, even if it has full EVs on DEF, after one attack increase. It will 2HKO even a defensive one without attack increases.

It can OHKO Latios with Sucker Punch.

It will OHKO Tyranitar with Iron Head after one attack increase.

Is that what you want to know?

tlyee61 · Dec 9th, 2012, 2:18:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Golden Piloswine

Well here's what I have to say:

Hitmontop: Why??? Technician with Close Combat, I don't understand. Also your descriptions are lacking. Why did you choose the moves that you, did, and why do you have CC, and Mach Punch on the same set.

Abomasnow: Ice Shard kills Dragons. That's not specific. Try a damage calculator, because you have no Attack Ev's invested. What kind of Dragon? Dragonite. Which often has Multiscale, which makes it's bulk even more impressive.

Rotom: Try a damage calculator, your not being specific. All you say is it just goes in there and destroys everything. There's no examples or anything.

Salamence & Chandelure, is the same thing I have above. I just need more specifics.

I like Bisharp's Defiant idea very much. I just need more info on how it does in battle, besides absorbs Intimidate.

Sorry if this message sounds rough, but you need data to back up your team, and an explanation of how it does in battle.

Top: I would also suggest Intimdate. Mach Punch provides some nice priority.

Abomasnow: Ice Shard also gives Aboma a nice priority. While it won't always be killing things, it can pick off Focus Sash users.

Rotom-W: I disagree. He doesn't exactly need a damage calc to provide examples. Since he has full investment, he will be killing things.

Salamence and Chandy: Like I said, he doesn't really need any damage calcs because he went for full investment.

He did explain his reasoning behind Bisharp, which was to kill of Psychic types that threaten Hitmontop and to kill Latios, which outspeeds most of his team and KOs.

Now onto my advice:
Mence:
I would go for a mixed set with Draco Meteor / Heat Wave / Rock Slide or HP Flying and Protect with 252 evs in Special Attack

Overall looks like a very solid team, with its only glaring weakness is fighting, but you have resistances to that. Nice Job!

Golden Piloswine · Dec 9th, 2012, 2:52:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Leahn Novash

As I said, the team needs tweaking.

> Hitmontop: Why???

To hit hard Dark, Rock and Steel types which otherwise resist me. Hitmontop's other abilities are Intimidate and Steadfast, which I don't feel that help enough when using a Fighting Gem. If I had a Life Orb, maybe Intimidate would be a better idea, but such item is on Salamence already, and you know, Item Clause and all that.

> Why do you have CC, and Mach Punch on the same set.

Because I don't have the resources to teach it Sucker Punch, and I don't think I will see a lot of Psychic types running away from a Fighting type to make Pursuit worth having.

I felt like it was the best option given the movepool accessible to me.

Mach Punch to hit anything that is weak to Fight and Close Combat to hit anything that is neutral to it. Fake Out's use is obvious, and Wide Guard is just common sense.

> Ice Shard kills Dragons. That's not specific.

Ice Shard is a priority move that is physical in a PokeMon built for special attacks. It won't hit hard enough anything that's not weak to Ice, so namely, Dragons. Anything else is not worth using it against, so Blizzard is the main attack power.

Ice Shard is there so I have a chance to drop any Latios that survives the first Blizzard on the second turn before it has a chance to drop Abomasnow.

> Rotom: Try a damage calculator, your not being specific.

I do not have to OHKO stuff. Rotom-W is a Water/Elec type. It resists Water attacks and it is suppereffective against them. It will hit a Kingdra with no EVs invested in SpD for 57% of its HP, on average, even under Rain. It will almost kill a Politoed, or even OHKO it on a lucky shot, and hit a Ludicolo for 52% on average.

> Salamence, is the same thing.

Dragon Claw with Life Orb is the main attack. Earthquake is just the standard coverage move. Crunch is there for Psychic types, except Cresselia. Salamence should simply run away from Cresselia.

> Chandelure, is the same thing

As I said, Chandelure is there to soak up Fighting and Fire attacks. It is meant to support Bisharp.

> I like Bisharp's Defiant idea very much. I just need more info on how it does in battle

It can almost always OHKO a Cresselia with a non-defensive nature using Sucker Punch, even if it has full EVs on DEF, after one attack increase. It will 2HKO even a defensive one without attack increases.

It can OHKO Latios with Sucker Punch.

It will OHKO Tyranitar with Iron Head after one attack increase.

Is that what you want to know?

Yes, this clears things up. I understand it better now!

**TheMantyke** · Dec 9th, 2012, 3:45:27 PM

...

You have a pretty solid team on your hands, but you can do a few things to spruce things up.

Substitute > Night Slash on Bisharp
Night Slash isn't too crucial on Bisharp; Sucker Punch can be unreliable at times, but it gets the job done for the most part. On the other hand, substitute is really, really cool on Bisharp. You put pressure on your opponent to attack you, making it easier for you to pull off a Sucker Punch. Additionally, Substitute puts a hefty amount of pressure on your opponent to attack them, making it easier for your partner to attack.

Overheat > HP Ice or Energy Ball on Chandelure
One of the coolest things about Scarf Chandelure is to get that wicked powerful Overheat off quick. It's a shame you're missing it. Hidden Power Ice and Energy Ball are mostly filler as is, so you can chose to drop either to add on Overheat. Personally, I'd recommend replacing Energy Ball as your targeting very few things it with it

Special Attacking Salamence > Physical Salamence
Physical Salamence is really bland in VGC. Dragon Claw and Earthquake aren't the strongest and just using Earthquake requires an assortment of levitating partners (of which you lack). Special Salamence, on the other hand, has just enough its movepool to be really effective. I'd recommend a simple set akin to what's listed in Smogon's Analysis.

@

Intimdate
Modest
8 HP / 248 SpAtk / 252 Speed
-Draco Meteor
-Heat Wave
-Hidden Power Flying
-Protect

Hope my advice helps!

tlyee61 · Dec 9th, 2012, 5:15:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat TheMantyke

[hide]
Special Attacking Salamence > Physical Salamence
Special Salamence is really bland in VGC. Dragon Claw and Earthquake aren't the strongest and just using Earthquake requires an assortment of levitating partners (of which you lack). Special Salamence, on the other hand, has just enough its movepool to be really effective. I'd recommend a simple set akin to what's listed in Smogon's Analysis.

@

Intimdate
Modest
8 HP / 248 SpAtk / 252 Speed
-Draco Meteor
-Heat Wave
-Hidden Power Flying
-Protect

Hope my advice helps!

I assume you meant Physical?

Leahn Novash · Dec 9th, 2012, 6:09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat tlyee61

Top: I would also suggest Intimdate. Mach Punch provides some nice priority.

May I ask why? Technician increases the damage on Mach Punch and Fake Out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat tlyee61

Now onto my advice:
Mence:
I would go for a mixed set with Draco Meteor / Heat Wave / Rock Slide or HP Flying and Protect with 252 evs in Special Attack

Men, I so will need to rebreed the Salamence for HP Flying...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat tlyee61

Overall looks like a very solid team, with its only glaring weakness is fighting, but you have resistances to that. Nice Job!

Credits are not mine, but belong to TalkingLion. The team was his suggestion, although the moves are mine. Now guess which part needs tweaking? :-P

Leahn Novash · Dec 9th, 2012, 6:20:50 PM

Quote:

Substitute > Night Slash on Bisharp
Night Slash isn't too crucial on Bisharp; Sucker Punch can be unreliable at times, but it gets the job done for the most part.

I agree. Now that you mention it, Bisharp also has Iron Head, which is also a STAB move that will hit most stuff for at least neutral damage. I don't need another STAB move, specially one that overlaps with another move. Thanks for the suggestion.

Quote:

Overheat > HP Ice or Energy Ball on Chandelure
One of the coolest things about Scarf Chandelure is to get that wicked powerful Overheat off quick.

HP Ice is useful against Flying, Grass and Ground types, the latter seriously threatening Chandelure with STAB Earthquakes. Now, I already have Heat Wave, which has already a good damage output and doesn't cripple the Pokemon. Do I really need both Heat Wave and Overheat?

Quote:

Special Attacking Salamence > Physical Salamence

Seems to be the general consensus. But I will have to rebreed it.

**TheMantyke** · Dec 9th, 2012, 6:47:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Leahn Novash

HP Ice is useful against Flying, Grass and Ground types, the latter seriously threatening Chandelure with STAB Earthquakes. Now, I already have Heat Wave, which has already a good damage output and doesn't cripple the Pokemon. Do I really need both Heat Wave and Overheat?

Heatwave is a reliable STAB attack. Overheat is a powerful attack you can use once in a while to blast a specific target. If you need something dead quickly, you can fire off an Overheat off of Chandelure's massive Special Attack and usually net a quick KO. The moves serve entirely different purposes. Scarf Chandelure can catch a lot of fellows off guard and an attack as strong as Overheat allows you to capitalize on that. You already have Pokemon like Rotom-W and Abomasnow helping Chandelure with Water / Ground / Rock Pokemon as is, I think you can afford swapping out Energy Ball for Overheat.

Quote:

Seems to be the general consensus. But I will have to rebreed it.

Remember, Smogon has a large group of users committed to getting people the Pokemon they need for events. If you can't rng, it's a great place to pick up the Pokemon you need.

Leahn Novash · Dec 10th, 2012, 2:28:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat TheMantyke

The moves serve entirely different purposes.

Understood. Will Comply.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat TheMantyke

Remember, Smogon has a large group of users committed to getting people the Pokemon they need for events. If you can't rng, it's a great place to pick up the Pokemon you need.

I can RNG. It is not a matter of ability, but of time. I needed this team ready for next weekend. Even though I don't need to level them up to 100 since we can battle using RF and have it autolevel to 100, I still need it EV trained. Alas, I will have time to do so, if I start now.

Dec 9th, 2012, 5:09:21 AM	#1
Leahn Novash Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 11 São Paulo, Brazil	The Brave and The Bold So, I had this team all planned, but it seems that it is in need of a little tweaking. Well, here it goes. The point of this team is to counter the Salamence / Hitmontop combo. Of all the battles I fought, at least one of those Pokemon were present, if not both. In fact, they're both present on my team, as well. Bisharp @ Dark Gem Ability: Defiant EV: 252 HP, 252 ATK, 4 DEF Nature: Adamant Sucker Punch Night Slash Iron Head Protect Bisharp is the main counter to Intimidate teams, having its attack increased instead of lowered, and with Sucker Punch and Dark Gem, it can OHKO Latios and other dragon types that threaten Salamence. Salamence @ Life Orb Ability: Intimidate EV: 4 HP, 252 ATK, 252 SPE Nature: Adamant Dragon Claw Earthquake Crunch Protect Salamence is the main sweeper of the team. Not only it reduces the physical attack of the other side, but it is able to outspeed and OHKO most stuff that threatens Bisharp. Chandelure @ Choice Scarf Ability: Flash Fire EV: 252 SpA, 4 SpD, 252 SPE Nature: Modest Heat Wave Shadow Ball HP Ice Energy Ball Chandelure is on the team for two reasons. To soak up fighting attacks and to soak up fire attacks, both of which Bisharp are weak against. It also has Energy Ball, just in case I make a good prediction that the other side will switch a water type in, and to surprise Tyranitar switching in. Rotom-W @ Sitrus Berry Ability: Levitate EV: 252 HP, 252 SpA, 4 SpD Nature: Modest Hydro Pump Thunderbolt HP Ice Protect Rotom is here to counter Rain teams. The other three Pokemon are kind of water weak, so Rotom enters to jolt all those fish into submission with its Thunderbolt. Abomasnow @ Focus Sash Ability: Snow Warning EV: 252 HP, 4 DEF, 252 SpA Nature: Quiet Blizzard Giga Drain Ice Shard Protect No mystery here. 0 SPE IV Abomasnow to set up hail and remove whatever other weather effect is in place. Ice Shard kills dragons, Blizzard is the standard STAB Spread Move to use under hail, with its 100% accuracy. Hitmontop @ Fight Gem Ability: Technician EV: 252 HP, 252 ATK, 4 SPE Nature: Adamant Fake Out Close Combat Mach Punch Wide Guard Hitmontop closes the team by giving it the ability to strike hard Dark, Rock and Steel types, with its ability strengthening both Fake Out and Mach Punch for greater damage.

Dec 9th, 2012, 12:18:23 PM	#2
Golden Piloswine Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 422 Pittsburgh	Well here's what I have to say: Hitmontop: Why??? Technician with Close Combat, I don't understand. Also your descriptions are lacking. Why did you choose the moves that you, did, and why do you have CC, and Mach Punch on the same set. Abomasnow: Ice Shard kills Dragons. That's not specific. Try a damage calculator, because you have no Attack Ev's invested. What kind of Dragon? Dragonite. Which often has Multiscale, which makes it's bulk even more impressive. Rotom: Try a damage calculator, your not being specific. All you say is it just goes in there and destroys everything. There's no examples or anything. Salamence & Chandelure, is the same thing I have above. I just need more specifics. I like Bisharp's Defiant idea very much. I just need more info on how it does in battle, besides absorbs Intimidate. Sorry if this message sounds rough, but you need data to back up your team, and an explanation of how it does in battle. __________________ How do-you feel -about chocolate? Originally Posted by Fat jumpluff Also, I love chocolate... My "The Smog" Article \| ✞ I am proud to be close with Jesus Christ ✞

Dec 9th, 2012, 2:17:31 PM	#3
Leahn Novash Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 11 São Paulo, Brazil	As I said, the team needs tweaking. > Hitmontop: Why??? To hit hard Dark, Rock and Steel types which otherwise resist me. Hitmontop's other abilities are Intimidate and Steadfast, which I don't feel that help enough when using a Fighting Gem. If I had a Life Orb, maybe Intimidate would be a better idea, but such item is on Salamence already, and you know, Item Clause and all that. > Why do you have CC, and Mach Punch on the same set. Because I don't have the resources to teach it Sucker Punch, and I don't think I will see a lot of Psychic types running away from a Fighting type to make Pursuit worth having. I felt like it was the best option given the movepool accessible to me. Mach Punch to hit anything that is weak to Fight and Close Combat to hit anything that is neutral to it. Fake Out's use is obvious, and Wide Guard is just common sense. > Ice Shard kills Dragons. That's not specific. Ice Shard is a priority move that is physical in a PokeMon built for special attacks. It won't hit hard enough anything that's not weak to Ice, so namely, Dragons. Anything else is not worth using it against, so Blizzard is the main attack power. Ice Shard is there so I have a chance to drop any Latios that survives the first Blizzard on the second turn before it has a chance to drop Abomasnow. > Rotom: Try a damage calculator, your not being specific. I do not have to OHKO stuff. Rotom-W is a Water/Elec type. It resists Water attacks and it is suppereffective against them. It will hit a Kingdra with no EVs invested in SpD for 57% of its HP, on average, even under Rain. It will almost kill a Politoed, or even OHKO it on a lucky shot, and hit a Ludicolo for 52% on average. > Salamence, is the same thing. Dragon Claw with Life Orb is the main attack. Earthquake is just the standard coverage move. Crunch is there for Psychic types, except Cresselia. Salamence should simply run away from Cresselia. > Chandelure, is the same thing As I said, Chandelure is there to soak up Fighting and Fire attacks. It is meant to support Bisharp. > I like Bisharp's Defiant idea very much. I just need more info on how it does in battle It can almost always OHKO a Cresselia with a non-defensive nature using Sucker Punch, even if it has full EVs on DEF, after one attack increase. It will 2HKO even a defensive one without attack increases. It can OHKO Latios with Sucker Punch. It will OHKO Tyranitar with Iron Head after one attack increase. Is that what you want to know?