(Programming) Pokemon+ : Luck-free server (DONE!)

[Chispy]

Sleep Talk suggestion

Might require a bulk of coding, but maybe it would choose slot based on what turn it is?

So like..Turn 1 = Upper left, Turn 2 = Upper Right, etc etc. Turn 5 = Upper Left, and thus it has been reset.

This way it's not truly abusable; you have to get the timing right.

CompoundEyes and +Acc moves should make anything that was banned for "not enough acc" be counted as 100 Acc, in my opinion.
CompoundEyes, Gravity, or +1 means stuff like 60% Acc hitting, and the penalty on 120s disappearing.
Telekinesis, Lock-On, Mind Reader, or +2 means stuff like DynamicPunch and Zap Cannon hitting.

[breh]

TBH you really shouldn't be applying the power reduction to Fire Blast and Hydro Pump. I say this because when you look at the two moves, they don't have accuracy that's terrible enough.

I'll put it this way: you will never see anything run Blizzard outside of a Hail team; same goes for Thunder and rain. I can't say the same for Fire Blast or Hydro Pump though. Hell, there are few Pokemon that run Flamethrower in the first place. Fire Blast's meh accuracy is a far smaller aspect of the move than that of Blizzard and Flamethrower.

Otherwise, make sure that you remember Gravity for the SpA drop thing if you decide not to remove it.

Anyway, this should be fun if people actually play on the server. Sadly, I do not expect many to do so.

[PI-Dimension]

imo Dragon Rush/Iron Tail/Megahorn/other physical moves should deal recoil, while special moves drop. For example, i think all recoil moves are physical, and moves that lower the attacking stat are almost all special, with the exception of superpower. I might be wrong, but this seems like the trend.

[eric the espeon]

Originally Posted by Fat Innocent Criminal

What do you guys think of this format for each round :
- one competitively viable host team
- one gimmicky host team
- one "standard" battle with player-made, different teams (still with PK+ mechanics).

In this case, I think it might be very interesting to try and make a team without even having a metagame to look at, and guess what works best, what your opponent is most likely to use.
As for the gimmicky teams, it could help showcase some of the new mechanics by taking their consequences to an extreme degree. For exemple, a team made of 6 phazers without any entry hazard could make a very interesting battle with the new mechanics.

What do you think ?

Depends on the point of the tour, having one match with team advantage would go against the no luck thing. And rather than calling the second gimmicky, it'd be best to just make it a team designed specifically to make an interesting match, bring out some unusual mechanics. Some of the teams in the tourney I ran before were quite brilliant. I'd stay away from pushing the edited mechanics too much though, better to have it as close to real Pokemon as possible, minus luck.

As for who's running it, I'd mostly set up the rules/post signups and leave it to you two. Maybe make some suggestions for teams. Can send a proposal when we've figured out the rough structure.

aaand

Oh, and for the server, add some more tiers! At least make doubles and triples tiers :p. Ubers would be nice too.

[Lady Salamence]

We'll talk on Sunday, OK?

[XienZo]

It might be better to change things like Confusion instead of replacing them altogether with other negative nerfs, since that won't change things like Own Tempo Petal Dance or allow Thrash Spinda.

My proposal, in particular, is to have Confusion last a set 3 turns and cause the afflicted pokemon to suffer Struggle-esque recoil (1/4th max HP, not affected by Magic Guard, also afflicts non-attacking moves).

It's still a strong incentive to switch, but just like the original Thrash-induced Confusion, the user is still able to continue potentially dealing major damage if they feel it's advantageous to, whereas the -2/-2 basically forces them to switch no matter what.

[Pocket]

What do you think of using a similar mechanism for deciding speed ties to select moves that were sleep-talked? If the Sleep Talker moved first -> 1st move, if the Sleep Talker moved second -> 2nd move, if the opponent switches -> 3rd move. Sort of random. If you want to reduce further control from the Sleep Talker, you can possibly select the priority (1st, 2nd, 3rd move) through alphabetical order rather than the actual order it shows up on the Pokemon's moveset (ie, Whirlwind would be assigned as the "3rd move" even if it is on top of the moveset).

Originally Posted by Fat Breludicolo

TBH you really shouldn't be applying the power reduction to Fire Blast and Hydro Pump. I say this because when you look at the two moves, they don't have accuracy that's terrible enough.

I'll put it this way: you will never see anything run Blizzard outside of a Hail team; same goes for Thunder and rain. I can't say the same for Fire Blast or Hydro Pump though. Hell, there are few Pokemon that run Flamethrower in the first place. Fire Blast's meh accuracy is a far smaller aspect of the move than that of Blizzard and Flamethrower.

I have to agree that Hydro Pump and Fire Blast got nerfed significantly. For 80% accuracy and above, perhaps have the Attack / Special Attack drop happen once? So at first, the Pokemon can utilize a 120 BP move, but the subsequent attacks would hit at 80 BP. Fire Blast is still nerfed even then, but comes close to the actual power relationship.

Hydro Pump in BW OU in 3 turns: (120*0.8) * 3 = 288
Surf in 3 turns: 95 *3 = 285
Hydro Pump in 3 turns in your server: 120 + 80 + 60 = 260
Hydro Pump in your server with this suggestion: 120 + 80 + 80 = 280

This suggestion also applies to Megahorn.

[Innocent Criminal]

Hone Claw is basically only +1 now, like Meditate and Howl.

@Chispy: This is still abusable, as Rest only lasts two turns. You could for exemple run Roar + Dragon tail on the first two positions. Sleep Talk might still come back, but after having a metagame to look at. The other main reason is that Sleep Talk basically doesn't exist in BW OU. Should stall happen to dominate, you'll be glad Sleep Talk is gone ;)

@Breludicolo & Pocket : I did this mostly to increase diversity and make both 95 and 120BP viable. It still has far less consequences than, for exemple, Hypnosis Gengar or even Sleep Talk would. This is mostly a design choice, a matter of preference and flavor. Should an imbalance appear during playtesting, I'll definitely reconsider other options, but without an objective way to choose, I implemented what I myself consider to be the best options.

@ete : Thanks, that's what I meant (as for who's running it). About the "gimmicky" team, I couldn't think of a better word but I meant something similar to some of your tourney's host teams.

Depends on the point of the tour, having one match with team advantage would go against the no luck thing.

Well, that's why I wanted to have two host teams, so that only one game is potentially imbalanced. The idea behind this choice was that teambuilding is also a skill, and I think many people might like to explore a new metagame this way. Still, we might give the players a "no teambuilding" option, if they don't want to. In a given pairing, should one player not want to build a team, he would play a mirror match using its opponent's team. Should both player chose this option, they would then use team A (viable), unless they both agree to use team B.
In this case, any player wanting a completely fair game will get it, while those who desire say mays still try their own teams.$

@XienZo : that would be a huge buff, even with bigger recoil than you suggested, as the worst about confusion isn't the recoil but the inability to move. Salamence is usually in KO range after calming down anyway, so he'd rather make one last kill before going down than having a 50% chance to lose its turn and still be KOed.

[Brazeku]

Suggestion: The previously high crit moves

Give them the chip away effect

[Chispy]

Hm, should we buff Chip Away to the par of Slash, then? Or maybe even higher since I think more 'mons get Slash...

[Pocket]

I feel like it would be reasonable for the Pokemon using a shitty set-up move as Hone Claws to be freed of the Atk / SAtk drops of the select < 85% accurate moves.

Originally Posted by Fat Innocent Criminal

@Breludicolo & Pocket : I did this mostly to increase diversity and make both 95 and 120BP viable. It still has far less consequences than, for exemple, Hypnosis Gengar or even Sleep Talk would. This is mostly a design choice, a matter of preference and flavor. Should an imbalance appear during playtesting, I'll definitely reconsider other options, but without an objective way to choose, I implemented what I myself consider to be the best options.

The closer the power relationship is to the BW OU, the more diverse and viable the 120 BP moves will be. Only having a single attack / special attack drop after subsequent use would allow > 79% accurate moves to function more like they are supposed to imo. You either use Flamethrower that hits 95 BP all the time, or use Fire Blast that hits 120 BP the first time and hits like a Lava Plume in subsequent hits.

[Innocent Criminal]

I'd rather not bloat this with too many unnecessary changes : the goal of this project isn't to make every move/ability/pokemon viable, so options that don't see much/any use in standard play most likely won't get buffed. As for the 120BP family, like I said, suggestions are acknowledged but will only be considered after much more playtesting, when we will have actual data to look at.


I also made some slight modifications to the server :
- Iron Tail lowers Spe 1 stage and Dragon Rush has 1/3 recoil.
- We now have Ubers, OU and UU tiers, both Singles and Doubles.
- If you experienced troubles with Wifi clause, it was because your team was invalid in the only existing tiers. You should now be able to challenge people for an Uber battle with Wifi clause.
- Shed Skin's count does not reset upon switching anymore.
- 30% status requires you to hit your opponent twice, but not necessarily consecutively. This resets upon switching.


As we're working on a tournament, this server is now under a Feature Freeze : there won't be any additional modification to the mechanics until it's finished.

[Brazeku]

The purpose of my suggestion was to provide a defensive boost breaking option outside of (p)haze, toxic and unaware. I think you are going to see problems with calm minders in particular but I suppose let it play out.

[Himanattsu]

What is Mudder Water's new effect, or is it banned?

[djtoxic]

What happened with this project?

[breh]

It had a nonexistent playerbase. IIRC about one person was on when this was "active". It's a neat concept, but it's kind of like Facebook vs. Google Plus; normal server had too much inertia.

[White symphoni]

does this server exist now?

[Lady Salamence]

No.