Solar Flare - a 5th Gen Sun team

[NoJohns]

Without Cresselia, your team looks prone to Rock Polish Terrakion, who can use Forretress as setup fodder and LO Boosted Stone Edge just might OHKO Venusaur, who is currently your best check. In theory, intimidate switching could work, but it still looks like a big threat, especially if your team has been weakened (It can OHKO 4/6 of your team).

[Benlisted]

@rara - thanks very much for the praise :D means a lot! I pine for the day when I can legally use giga drain, beating chansey and not having to worry about being stalled out of lo damage so much. I'm always somewhat anxious about anything without recovery, but since I sac arc a lot to reun and if I play well then recoil will often not be too much ol an issue. Actually, fb hits reun harder than crunch, but crunch is great chandelure insurance and for slowbro. Actually though, against better players who predict cc's use, crunch maims ghost and psychic switchins, which is excellent.

@leopard - the main reason I use sawsbuck over leavanny is the great coverage it gets. Leavanny simply can't hurt steels, which is a major issue in a dragon heavy meta. Recovery in wood horn and no sr weakness are the other pluses, as is double-edges sheer power. The mach punch and ground resists do seem nice, but sawsbuck gels really well with the team.

@dezza - true, I do, but to be quite honest it hasn't proved too much of an issue. The rise of balloon has reduced eqs use when not as stab, and I generally seem to be able to play around it pretty well. Balloon, intimidate and wow give my ground weak members some damage limitation ability against ground if all goes ill, and my offensive playstyle means my weakness doesn't trouble me too much I guess.

@nojohns - aha, very true, thanks for pointing that out. In sun sawsbuck can actually outspeed and revenge actually, but out of it he poses issues so ill have to look out for him. Luckily rp doesn't seem to get used too much, so if I make sure not to be setup fodder when sun is down I should be able to manage him.

[magic_leopard]

Originally Posted by Fat Dezza Laa

Just to let you know that since you've given up on Cresselia you've lost a VERY crucial ground immunity. You now rely on Sawsbuck's resistance to deal with it.

Bear in mind that Tran will have a balloon, so he can switch in with no worries. But yeah, once it pops you'll be missing that levitate.

[Texas Cloverleaf]

OKay Ben, I used the team for a while until I ran into a Pain Split, Fire Blast, Shadow Ball, filler CHandelure. I got raped hard. It survived Venusaur's unboosted Sludge Bomb and proceeded to Pain Split/attack everyting else on the team as the only way of touching it was through Cress's Psychic or Sawsbuck Horn Leech. Yeah, Chanderlure rapes Sun.

[Benlisted]

Originally Posted by Fat Texas Cloverleaf

OKay Ben, I used the team for a while until I ran into a Pain Split, Fire Blast, Shadow Ball, filler CHandelure. I got raped hard. It survived Venusaur's unboosted Sludge Bomb and proceeded to Pain Split/attack everyting else on the team as the only way of touching it was through Cress's Psychic or Sawsbuck Horn Leech. Yeah, Chanderlure rapes Sun.

Haha yeah, the odd Chandelure does rape it.. if you take a look at the OP though, I've changed it since you began to try the team - I've edited Arcanine to be able to deal with Chandelure, as well as running Tran over Cress now who can EP it to death as well. Chan really isn't too much of an issue now, which is fantastic.

[PrinceMush01]

Charizard is an excellent choice for sun teams as his new DW ability, Solar Power, is just brilliant by giving him a +1 in sp. attack. Sawsbuck is one of my favourite 5th gen's and an underrated sun sweeper. So, great team and good luck!

[Jenica]

Hello Ben! I want to suggest a set that caught my interest. This was originally used under Rain, but the concept is exactly the same. It also makes your team less reliable on Sun overall.

Latias (F)@ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 240 HP / 16 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Recover
- Calm Mind
- Dragon Pulse

This is from an RMT called Kami no Tenshi. The basic concept isn't to use the weather for abuse, but as a defense. With sun out, Latias does not have to worry about Sand or Hail damaging her, meaning she can set up easier. Substitute escapes status, much like refresh, but also allows her to pull out in case Tyranitar comes in. Calm Mind and Dragon Pulse are the main moves as they allow her to become a nice Special Defensive tank while destroying everything with Dragon Pulse.

Now, as far as replacing a member, I'm personally not sure. I would suggest replacing a Fire type, since both Venusaur and Sawsbuck are almost mandatory. If you have any questions, just ask. I should be around.

[DarthChocoboz]

Hey dude definatly a sweet team and i have faced it many times [PO pairs me with rain and sun teams only because it hates life] And i have played all except the second version of this team. First thing is first, Ninetails. I honestly believe that its not bulky enough to operate as you want it to. However i believe you could still make it work by shifting the SP DEF investment to Speed and adding Hidden Power Ground Over toxic. Now you have a very fast burn coming up off something that doesn't carry it that often and then again no one expects you to rest up and get HP back which is something i definatly would hate on ninetails. I play over 100 PO games daily and i have never seen Ninetails rest ever, so that might tell you how frail it is.

Next is i don't understand the HP investment on Venasaur, arcanine and Sawsbuck. Honestly on Arcanine and Sawsbuck just stick to 252|252|4 since they are much more effective. As you your self said vena is having trouble with Heatran, Try out the mixed set which has been mentioned before as it works the best.

You might also want to consider Thunder Fang/Wild Bolt/Morning Sun/Flame Charge on Arcnine since Rest/Talk gyara might give you trouble if played well, I recommend dropping Crunch for this option as it doesn't matter since Fire is more powerful then super effective Crunch

Hope i helped cool team Good Luck

Venasaur Set

---

Venasaur | Life Orb/ Leftovers
6 Atk|252 SP Atk|252 Speed| Mild/Rash
Growth|Earthquake|Energy Ball/Power Whip|Hidden Power Ice/Fire

[Benlisted]

Heh, boy was I surprised to see this thread's tomb being excavated! I honestly haven't been focusing on this team in a long time, so am not looking for new comments too much, though they are appreciated! Anyway, to respond to you guys:

Originally Posted by Fat PrinceMush01

Charizard is an excellent choice for sun teams as his new DW ability, Solar Power, is just brilliant by giving him a +1 in sp. attack. Sawsbuck is one of my favourite 5th gen's and an underrated sun sweeper. So, great team and good luck!

Whilst I agree Zard is a great nuke in Sun, you really do have to build a team around him due to his low speed, hatred of SR, and uselessness out of Sun. I couldn't just slap him on over say Tran and be done with it unfortunately, since Forry cannot keep SR away reliably enough. Moreover, Darmanitan and Victini offer pretty huge competition for the nuke role at present as well, and are easier to slap onto a team. Thanks for the compliments though!

Originally Posted by Fat Jenica

Hello Ben! I want to suggest a set that caught my interest. This was originally used under Rain, but the concept is exactly the same. It also makes your team less reliable on Sun overall.

Latias (F)@ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 240 HP / 16 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Recover
- Calm Mind
- Dragon Pulse

This is from an RMT called Kami no Tenshi. The basic concept isn't to use the weather for abuse, but as a defense. With sun out, Latias does not have to worry about Sand or Hail damaging her, meaning she can set up easier. Substitute escapes status, much like refresh, but also allows her to pull out in case Tyranitar comes in. Calm Mind and Dragon Pulse are the main moves as they allow her to become a nice Special Defensive tank while destroying everything with Dragon Pulse.

Now, as far as replacing a member, I'm personally not sure. I would suggest replacing a Fire type, since both Venusaur and Sawsbuck are almost mandatory. If you have any questions, just ask. I should be around.

As much as CM Latias works wonders on Sun, I turned to much more offensive style when I dropped Cress running a very similar set (Latias probably does it better tbh) and really like the fact that I have 3 deadly sweepers able to set up at the drop of a hat and potentially end the game right there. Latias, whilst a potent threat with CM, can't really do the same in terms of being an immediate threat, so I probably wouldn't add it purely on that basis. If I were fond of a more balanced style then I would certainly give it a whirl, since that Ground immune makes her certainly a far better fit to my team than say Tran - and anyone looking to try this team I would advise to attempt Latias>Tran in this way too. Good call basically.

Originally Posted by Fat DarthChocoboz

Hey dude definatly a sweet team and i have faced it many times [PO pairs me with rain and sun teams only because it hates life] And i have played all except the second version of this team. First thing is first, Ninetails. I honestly believe that its not bulky enough to operate as you want it to. However i believe you could still make it work by shifting the SP DEF investment to Speed and adding Hidden Power Ground Over toxic. Now you have a very fast burn coming up off something that doesn't carry it that often and then again no one expects you to rest up and get HP back which is something i definatly would hate on ninetails. I play over 100 PO games daily and i have never seen Ninetails rest ever, so that might tell you how frail it is.

Next is i don't understand the HP investment on Venasaur, arcanine and Sawsbuck. Honestly on Arcanine and Sawsbuck just stick to 252|252|4 since they are much more effective. As you your self said vena is having trouble with Heatran, Try out the mixed set which has been mentioned before as it works the best.

You might also want to consider Thunder Fang/Wild Bolt/Morning Sun/Flame Charge on Arcnine since Rest/Talk gyara might give you trouble if played well, I recommend dropping Crunch for this option as it doesn't matter since Fire is more powerful then super effective Crunch

Hope i helped cool team Good Luck

Venasaur Set

---

Venasaur | Life Orb/ Leftovers
6 Atk|252 SP Atk|252 Speed| Mild/Rash
Growth|Earthquake|Energy Ball/Power Whip|Hidden Power Ice/Fire

Heh, just realised i was using SpD and Spd as my EV notations, will be sure to alter that! Yeah basically my Tales does actually run max speed in order to do exactly as you say. Her being Tran weak is indeed quite a nasty problem, given how my team has issues with Balloon+Sub Tran in particular. I can't rely upon HP Ground for exactly that reason, however, so I could potentially go with HP Fight instead. However, I primarily use Tales to set sun and merely survive, as without Sub she cannot hope to beat Tran or TTar as reliably as many Tales. Since I lack a Wishpasser I am forced to use Rest, meaning i simply don't have the moveslots to do everything I want to with Tales. And whilst Rest does work wonders for my survivability, it really resricts what Tales can do, so essentially I am forced to double switch her if I run into problems quite a lot.

The HP investment on my mons is less that I need to run that HP and more that I've cut my speed down to a level where I beat something significant in order to have a tad more bulk (typically HP). Unless a Sawsbuck Speed creep occurs I'll stick with it since it helps reduce recoil, for instance.

Crunch is primarily to give me some way to kill Chandelure outside of Tran, as well as catching the ghosts who switch into the CC they thin is heading for a TTar. At a level where your opponent knows you want to CC his Tar, Crunch is hilariously effective at killing random Gengar, Jellicent etc.

[Jenica]

Originally Posted by Fat Benlisted

As much as CM Latias works wonders on Sun, I turned to much more offensive style when I dropped Cress running a very similar set (Latias probably does it better tbh) and really like the fact that I have 3 deadly sweepers able to set up at the drop of a hat and potentially end the game right there. Latias, whilst a potent threat with CM, can't really do the same in terms of being an immediate threat, so I probably wouldn't add it purely on that basis. If I were fond of a more balanced style then I would certainly give it a whirl, since that Ground immune makes her certainly a far better fit to my team than say Tran - and anyone looking to try this team I would advise to attempt Latias>Tran in this way too. Good call basically.

Thank you for the compliment! Glad I could at least attempt to help out. :3

[DarthChocoboz]

Originally Posted by Fat Benlisted

Heh, just realised i was using SpD and Spd as my EV notations,

Crunch is primarily to give me some way to kill Chandelure outside of Tran, as well as catching the ghosts who switch into the CC they thin is heading for a TTar. At a level where your opponent knows you want to CC his Tar, Crunch is hilariously effective at killing random Gengar, Jellicent etc.

Lol? But i forgot about jellicent i was only thinking shandelure, you could double switch back to something else but thats a hassle.

[Mong00se]

Open with Forretress and run both Spikes and Stealth Rock. Then Explode.

Arcanine and Ninetales can then PHaze with Roar for some extra damage and some control.

Also, I really like the idea of a MixSaur. With Growth, Venosaur can then utilize EQ AND a STAB. I like Solarbeam>Energy Ball>Giga Drain, but with the abundance of other weather, it's totally up to your play style. I like to run Sludge Bomb over Sleep Powder for other Grass types and a STAB.

[Benlisted]

Originally Posted by Fat Mong00se

Open with Forretress and run both Spikes and Stealth Rock. Then Explode.

Arcanine and Ninetales can then PHaze with Roar for some extra damage and some control.

Also, I really like the idea of a MixSaur. With Growth, Venosaur can then utilize EQ AND a STAB. I like Solarbeam>Energy Ball>Giga Drain, but with the abundance of other weather, it's totally up to your play style. I like to run Sludge Bomb over Sleep Powder for other Grass types and a STAB.

I really need Forry to live as long as possible - to keep SR up since I have no spinblocker as well as remove Spikes and SR, which my team is pretty vulnerable to. He's also my main defensive pivot since Tran wants to keep his Balloon intact, so I need him alive for that reason too. Exploding doesn't work as well as it used to, with the power drop anyway.

Arcanine needs the 4 move coverage else a ton of things wall him, and Roar on Tales is primarily for stopping setup mons from taking advantage of her, not for causing minimal damage with SR, so I can't use that strategy unfortunately. Essentially if I repeatedly try to Phaze with Tales stuff will just attack and kill her instead, which would probably lose me the game if another weather is involved.

MixSaur sacrifices a ton of power for little gain - as I sum up in my Venusaur writeup. As well as that, EQ hits Tran and Chandelure (if they don't have a Balloon) but loses me hits on DNite, Mence and Lati@s, who are much more common and bigger threats. SolarBeam is pointless since I need to use Venusaur to take out Gliscor in SS and Toed in Rain a fair amount, and Giga Drain is illegal, which I mention in the writeup too.

No offence, but did you read my descriptions? I only say that because if you do want to help out there's no point suggesting stuff I explain away in them, so you really should. Not all your tips were I know, but particularly Giga Drain was mentioned a few times in Venu's section.

[DRB322]

I love this team, The Sawsbuck is deadly :)

I usually start with Ninetales and roar out everyone it can't kill

Forry is usually last he usually always faces someone thats weak against steel and wins it for me

[Jared]

Just curious, why are you running intimidate on Arcanine over Flash Fire? Maybe I'm just missing something obvious but I'm just getting back into serious battling and I'm a bit confused over that choice :P

You do mention that two fire immunes is unnecessary, but can it hurt? I would say it would help more than Intimidate :]

[Stunt]

ok not being cocky or anything, but heres an amazing suggestion to your sun team. I havent been able to try it out, but I plan to and theory-wise it should be perfect:

I suggest this Espeon set:
Espeon (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 20 SAtk / 16 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Baton Pass
- Morning Sun
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Its pretty much my Sunny Day Espeon set, except with Baton pass over sunny day.
Now this guy can take the role of your forretress. He reflects hazards coming at you, and can baton pass out on pursuiting tyrannitar. Hidden Power Fire puts Ferrothorn, Skarm, and Forretress in a bad spot, while Psychic puts 33 % down on bulky politoed every switchin.To work with this guy, you'd have to have a pretty solid tyranitar switchin.

Which you dont, so I'd suggest sacking one of your fire sweepers for something more defense k ;) prob something that also helps with your ground type weakness.

[Scarfwynaut]

I know a few other people have said this, but double edge really is uneeded, and just overkill. I get plenty of 1HKOs with return without swords dance. The boost from double edge does little more then add unessisary recoil.

Aside from that, this team looks fine, although I think balloon heatran is a bit overkill. I tried balloon-tran a bit, and to hyper offense teams, you just lose so I don't use it myself, but I suppose its good for steel typing in the end.

[Jared]

Sorry to post again so soon, but man, have I found a problem. Nothing on this team can easily take a draco meteor from a specd Latios very well, and have a way of recovering. Jirachi or Cress might do the trick.



Jirachi @ Leftovers
Nature: Calm
252 HP/4 Attack/252 Sp. Def
- Iron Head
- Wish
- Protect
- Body Slam

This thing is an amazing thing to come in on a draco meteor from a spec'd latios. It can live 3+ consecutive draco meteors from full health, and can heal back up with wish + protect while also giving heals to another pokemon, provided that you can switch in without dying. Although this doesn't take advantage of the sun, I believe if it's necessary to have this on your team replacing heatran. Doing so would mean giving Flash Fire to Arcanine.


Cresselia @ Light Clay
252 HP/108 Def/148 Sp. Def
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Moonlight
- Psychic/Psybeam

Another option besides Jirachi. This set can take 2-3 consecutive draco meteors from a choice spec latios, while having moonlight which recovers 66% of your health in the sun. With dual screens up it also allows Venusaur or Sawsbuck to set up more easily. I think this would be best off replacing heatran. Please share your opinions :]

Edit:
Since you're replacing Heatran you need something that can pack a earth power/earthquake so on Sawsbuck I would replace Jump Kick with Nature Power (Which is EQ)

[WiredSushi]

maybe want to think about payback on forry, to take out lati@s and stuff like that.