Black & White Battle Subway Records (now with gen. 4 records!)

[Chinese Dood]

Thanks Peterko for the fast update! I updated my post with stuff.

[Manveru123]

Originally Posted by Fat Chinese Dood

EDIT: O yeah, @Manveru123, I tried slightly similar Spiritombs before in Gen IV (I tried CM / HP Fighting / Sub / Shadow Ball, and CM / Dark Pulse / Sub / Rest, and CM / Dark Pulse / Sub / Pain Split)... The Rest version worked the best, but even then... it's not really good. Even if I fully set up (+6/+6 with a sub) after the opponent's lead is gone, it's still so easy to lose, because its defenses aren't that amazing (they're basically slightly above average). Calm Mind can cover the special side, but even with 252 HP 252 Def, it's no Suicune. It's too slow, so a crit after sub is broken from a physical attack means game over, and that can happen fairly often. On top of that, even at +6 SpA, there are a handful of things that it cannot OHKO. And... that was just Gen IV. With the Sturdy ability change in Gen V, that's even more.

Dragonite's a good fighting resist. Gyarados is fine too with good synergy with Ferrothorn (well, most Dragon or water types do). If you want a special attacker, Latios (@Specs/LO) or Latias (with CM/Recover or Rest) are probably both fine. IF you are keeping Ferrothorn, your fighting resist really should resist fire too (hence Dragonite/Lati@s/Gyarados). I also think... something with recovery might be better, so then Ferrothorn can have Leftovers. Or... Ferrothorn can have leech seed replacing one of your moves.

My Fero has Leech Seed already so that's covered. Thanks for input everyone, for now I'll swap Spiritomb for Dragonite and see what happens :)

[Chinese Dood]

Haha, sorry I'm not sure what I was thinking. I did see Leech Seed there and forgot about it or something. Hope Dragonite gets you somewhere far!

[some_guy]

@Chinese Dood,

Congrats on the awesome streak!
I was wondering if you ever faced a lead, Defiant Bisharp with Taunt?

280 | Bisharp | Lax | Sitrus Berry | Night Slash | Metal Claw | Taunt | Metal Burst | HP/Def
805 | Bisharp | Adamant | Focus Sash | Taunt | Sucker Punch | Rock Smash | Iron Head | HP/Atk

I get that you could thunderwave, but it'd already be at +1Attk from the Intimidate, and you wouldn't be able to lower it, or set up through the taunt.

Can Dragonite take it on without setting up? I guess it doesn't have super effective moves at least.

[Chinese Dood]

Hm, nope I actually haven't, haha. I did face a couple Bisharp leads, but they weren't Defiant. I guess that's a fortunate thing, since I totally forgot about that. Yeah for sure it'd probably be annoying to deal with because of taunt. I'd most likely Twave, like you said, then scald it to death with Tentacruel and then try to set up on the next pokemon... as my back up plan. I would likely try to set up with Dragonite first though before it taunts.

That's also why I think I'll do better with Suicune. Better defense (and offense) and Pressure could potentially stall out of taunt PPs if needed (not in Bisharp's case, but... say in that Vanilluxe lead example, Suicune would have been fully set up already, and even if it isn't, taunt's PP would have been depleted from pressure and I could get Dragonite to set up). Suicune would also get rid of the mamoswine problem, as well as many ground types since it's not weak to ground, and would not be nearly as afraid of electric types like Tentacruel is.

[atsync]

Originally Posted by Fat ~Mercury~

So i went with Ice Beam, and it indeed froze him... but he immediately thawed out and killed Slowbro with a Draco Meteor crit.

Man that is just so cruel! The games toys with you by thinking that you've won, but then it screws you with a defrost + crit combo (though even without a crit you still had a chance to faint anyway). Typical factory. So much luck is involved in it. There was one occasion that I remember where the factory gave me 6 water weak things to choose from at the start and then the lead of the first battle was a damn Starmie! One of the few battles I've had where it was literally impossible to win...

Still, good luck if you try again. It took me so long to get my factory lv.50 gold symbol but it felt so awesome when I did.

Oh and congrats to you too Chinese Dood. I forgot to do that in my other post lol. But I'm just curious though. Would you say that Tentacruel (and Suicune I guess when you try it) actually contributed more to your team than Volcarona? I mean it seems that it did, but I just wanted to know if you actually felt that your streak with Stoutland/Dragonite/Tentacruel is longer due to it being better than Stoutland/Dragonite/Volcarona, or if it was just, well, luck. I'd probably rather use a water type over Volcarona anyway since it seems better on paper.

[R Inanimate]

Congrats Chinese Dood on your Singles Streak.

Originally Posted by Fat atsync

There was one occasion that I remember where the factory gave me 6 water weak things to choose from at the start and then the lead of the first battle was a damn Starmie! One of the few battles I've had where it was literally impossible to win...

That reminds me of how in Emerald, just about every time I reached battle 29 (first battle in the 5th set), I would end up losing. They usually gave me a trashy team selection. One time, no matter what I chose, I'd lose, since all six of my Pokemon could barely do anything to Raikou, either doing pitiful damage, or being flat out OHKO'd. Sometimes I would get a decent selection of 6, only for the opponent to still have the better team/counter team eg. getting a Latios and a Starmie, only to be walled by Regice.

[Chinese Dood]

Originally Posted by Fat atsync

Oh and congrats to you too Chinese Dood. I forgot to do that in my other post lol. But I'm just curious though. Would you say that Tentacruel (and Suicune I guess when you try it) actually contributed more to your team than Volcarona? I mean it seems that it did, but I just wanted to know if you actually felt that your streak with Stoutland/Dragonite/Tentacruel is longer due to it being better than Stoutland/Dragonite/Volcarona, or if it was just, well, luck. I'd probably rather use a water type over Volcarona anyway since it seems better on paper.

Thanks atsync, there are - of course - goods and bads about each pokemon. Overall, I think Tentacruel had more positives than negatives when compared to Volcarona.

Stuff for comparison

---

With Volcarona, electric types weren't that scary, since, well, Volcarona isn' weak to them, and it has rest to get rid of paralysis. Quiver Dance also makes it faster than the opponent so once Volcarona outspeeds, it's not going to be paralyzed by Discharge/Tbolt/Thunder again... assuming those moves don't break Volcarona's sub, and with QD boosting Sp Def, that's not a bad assumption. Volcarona also isn't walled by as many things (basically it's only walled by Soundproof Exploud, Mr. Mime, and Electrode, compared to a few more in Tentacruel's case). Tentacruel has more PP with Acupressure, but doesn't seem like it PP stalls as well as Volcarona, simply because it seems like it's always at full health and can't use rest lol.

Volcarona and Tentacruel both resist ice, but Tentacruel is a bit better though because a lot of ice attacks come from water types, which Tentacruel cares even less about (due to water types not having STAB on those ice attacks I mean). So yeah, Tentacruel has the obvious typing advantage here when going up against water types.

For ground types... which tentacruel has problem with... to be honest, Volcarona doesn't do much better. It's not weak to ground, but it still can't set up easily on earthquakes anyway. It probably does a bit better, but who knows. Most of the ground types have rock moves anyway, so I have to use Dragonite to set up regardless of whether it's Volcarona or Tentacruel in the team.

I didn't mention this before (because I almost forgot it myself), but this Tentacruel streak was really just an experiment how well Tentacruel will do. It was more like "Oh hey, there's this Bold Acupressure Tentacruel here that I RNG'd and EV'd a while ago. I don't remember having any success with this, but maybe with Stoutland's crippling help this might prove to be something useful." Recall, in the beginning Tentacruel had Acid Spray, and that was the moveset I used before which didn't go too too well. Mono-water was a fairly obvious option, but for whatever reason I never thought about trying that out until I had like 70+ streak or something.

Now about Suicune. Well, everyone reading Subway thread knows about how awesome Suicune is, so it's an obvious choice. I didn't use it because I've used Suicune so many times already, so I just wanted to try something different (thus Volcarona and Tentacruel), but there's very little doubt in my mind that Suicune is just better. In fact, when I was using Tentacruel, plenty of times I was really thinking, "Hm, Suicune would have done this better faster."

Volcarona team had fairly major problems with Regirock, especially with curse. Tentacruel can probably Scald it to death before Regirock can deal too much damage, but it can't be more obvious that Suicune would do better than Tentacruel here with much better defense, better Special Attack, as well as not having a ground weakness. Same thing with Metagross. With the Tentacruel team, Metagross is dealt with by Dragonite. The Trick Metagross seemed to be the most common one in my streak.

That one was dealt with somewhat easily, since Dragonite just has to stall out 10 turns of Meteor Mash (its only other attack is EQ). Yeah, if Meteor Mash never misses, no full paralysis, and a few early attack increases, ... then Dragonite will lose, but usually, Meteor Mash misses eventually, or full paralysis happens sometime in the first 4 turns. Dragonite gets to keep its sub to roost back to full health, at which point Meteor Mash doesn't break the multiscale sub and Dragonite can DD. That one also Protects sometimes. AND it also sometimes earthquakes, after Dragonite roosted once. Anyway, that was totally unrelated to Suicune/Tentacruel/Volcarona haha.

Well, Suicune does the best vs both of those Clear Body pokemon (Metagross and Regirock). In fact, it does better against Tentacruel/Registeel too. Volcarona totally laughs at Regice, but Suicune doesn't do too badly even if Regice has Tbolt. Suicune will fairly likely beat a paralyzed Tbolting Regice one on one. It just needs a couple "lucky" full paralysis and it should be able to PP stall Regice out of Tbolts.

Basically, just to summarize:

Tentacruel > Volcarona due to better typing (fits the team better). Volcarona can deal with electric types better. Tentacruel can deal with water types and clearbody pokemon better.

Suicune > Tentacruel due to better everything stat-wise. Tentacruel has the luxury of using Black Sludge, but that poison typing also brings in the ground weakness (psychic too but that's not too huge), making Suicune even better. Suicune's grass weakness is basically not an issue since Dragonite deals with pokemon carrying grass moves fairly easily. Yes, Tentacruel has acupressure to boost all stats, but really, Calm Mind is usually what is needed for a water type to take on those electric attacks.

I still got to say, Quiver Dance is totally more fun than 21 turns of Acupressuring.

OH YEAH, as for whether or not I think Tentacruel was the "key" making the difference from the Volcarona's 276 streak vs this 349 streak... I totally forgot to answer that, and to be honest, I'm not sure, because I did face different pokemon in those 2 streaks. I can't say with any certainty, but I can just say what I think. What I think is that I was actually more lucky in the Volcarona streak than the Tentacruel streak. What I think that means is... IF I were to have used Tentacruel in the 276 streak (i.e. I faced the exact same pokemon), I am pretty sure it would have made it further than 276. It also means that if I used Volcarona in this 349 streak, I think I probably would have lost earlier than 349. I'm actually pretty sure I would have.

Basically I'm saying I think that the Volcarona streak had an "easier time", but still "only" go 276 streak. Tentacruel streak had a "harder time", but still got a higher streak. That still doesn't necessarily mean that Tentacruel was the reason for this +73 streak though. I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's not really too comparable lol, because I'm almost sure that if I try Volcarona team again I'm not going to get exactly 276 again. So, let's just say it's a combination of luck and also team. Sorry I'm not thinking very well today :D

By that token, Suicune would have extended this 349 streak to higher than 349, if I had been using it in this 349 streak. It's "sort of" obvious why I mentioned Suicune, I hope. The only major close calls I had before losing were both Mamoswine related. Mamoswine EQ beats Tentacruel and ice move beats Dragonite. Suicune solves that problem. Stoutland Charms Mamoswine once and it's basically battle won. Then I lose stupidly to taunt Vanilluxe. Suicune can PP stall that taunt and then set up or let Dragonite set up.

Also, thanks some_guy and R Inanimate!

[atsync]

I think I understand what you mean. Basically, Volcarona is troubled by more stuff but is more efficient when it works (and vice versa for Tentacruel).

Yeah it did seem to me like you kind of just decided to try out Tentacruel to see how it went, and then had it turn out to be 'accidently better' than Volcarona (at least in terms of streak length). That's what makes it even better though! It's more satisfying when something works better than expected (as opposed to just using things that others have shown work already, although sometimes you have to use what's best even if it's a bit boring).

But yeah I can see why Suicune would be better than Tentacruel anyway. Good luck trying it out.

As for what I'm planning on doing (when I find time to do it that is; university can be shitty if it wants to be), I'm gonna revive my Scrafty/Beheeyem Trick Room combo. Thunderbolt over HP Fire on Beheeyem and Fire Punch over Ice Punch on Scrafty. Bronzong will be replaced by Metagross. As for Gyarados, I'm not sure. It isn't amazing, but it's nice to have something that can switch into Fighting and Bug attacks. Maybe Dragonite could work better, since it has priority, or maybe Jellicent, because it's cool and has great coverage (and it can deal with Curse users better). I'll probably just stick with Gyarados for now and see where it gets me...

[Chill]

Someone really needs to make a battle tower app! It would be really handy to be able to look up pokemon/trainer sets on the go.

[Zari]

Well, I finally lost my super doubles streak (to ridiculous hax, of course). Lost at battle 185, so this streak beats my old record, with 184 wins! Anyways, it's the same team as before, so I'll just put the stuff in hide tags.

team preview

---

Garchomp @ Yache Berry
IVs: 31/31/31/21/31/31
EVs: 0/252/0/0/6/252
Jolly Nature
~Earthquake
~Dragon Claw
~Rock Slide
~Protect


Hydreigon @ White Herb
IVs: 31/x/31/31/31/31
EVs: 6/0/0/252/0/252
Modest Nature
~Draco Meteor
~Dark Pulse
~Flamethrower
~Protect


Rotom-W @ Sitrus Berry
IVs: 31/2/31/30/31/31
EVs: 250/0/4/248/4/4
Modest Nature
~Hydro Pump
~Thunderbolt
~Hidden Power [Grass]
~Protect


Politoed @ Choice Scarf
IVs: 31/x/31/28/31/31
EVs: 6/0/0/252/0/252
Timid Nature
~Scald
~Surf
~Ice Beam
~Focus Blast

dunno if this is allowed as proof (I don't have access to a camera sadly), but here's the battle vid of battle #185 (the one I lost on): 94-50102-61798. The reason I lost was a DM miss on turn 1. Everything basically just went downhill from there....but this beats my old record, so I'm happy!

[Manveru123]

Just got a new streak, and I think that it's time to end my subway adventure and wait until Black/White 2. The streak stands at 61 and I find it's good enough for me :) It was tons of fun anyway, and my original goal was just to beat subway boss :P

Anyway, first thing I did, was replacing Spiritomb for Dragonite.

Dragonite @ Leftovers
Jolly
Multiscale
252 hp, 212 spe, 44 atk
- Fire Punch
- Dragon Claw
- Roost
- Dragon Dance

I was also trying Gyarados here, but the combination of self recovery and Multiscale is too good to pass up. Solid and strong team member.

Ferrothorn @Rocky Helmet
Relaxed
Iron Barbs
252 hp, 168 spd, 88 def
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball

Same as before. I like Ferro a lot.

As for my sweeper.. well, after a while I stopped using Cloyster. He was too unreliable, and stopped way too easily by status. So I tried Darmanitan instead. This didn't work out well enough also, as he was too random at times: Fire Blitz sometimes failed to one shot stuff it should, and I ended up U-Turning a lot more. He just didn't fit. So, after some thought, I decided to try this guy:

Gengar @Focus Sash
Timid
Levitate
252 spa/spe
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
- Destiny Bond

This is the same gengar that ~Mercury~ used. It was what I needed and worked pretty damn well as my lead. I was also trying Frosslass here, but even though she's faster, her SpA is too low compared to this guy.

How I lost:
vs Black Belt Unsu

He sends out Volcarona, I send out Gengar.

Turn 1:
Gengar used Shadow Ball, Volcarona down to 70% after Leftovers.
Volcarona uses Quiver Dance.

Turn 2:
Volcarona used Heat Wave. Gengar down to Sash.
Gengar uses Shadow Ball. Volcarona down to 50% after Leftovers.

I should've really used Destiny Bond here, but I was expecting to still be faster than Volcarona after one dance..

Turn 3:
Gengar out, Dragonite in.
Volcarona Bug Buzz. Dragonite's SpD fell. Dragonite at 98% after Leftovers.

Turn 4:
Volcarona Hurricane. Dragonite confused and down to 10% after Leftovers.
Dragonite Dragon Claw. Volcarona down to 20% after Leftovers.

I was not expecting such a huge Hurricane hit, and it wasn't even CH!

Turn 5:
Volcarona Bug Buzz, Dragonite down. Gengar out.

Turn 6:
Volcarona Heat Wave, Gengar down. Ferro out (ugh).

Turn 7:
Volcarona Heat Wave, Ferro down.

Nice story of how a single Volcarona owned my team :P I could have probably won if I used Desting Bond on second turn, that was just miscalculation. The other Pokemon were Durant and Mienshao, both setup fodder for Dragonite.

[NoCheese]

Originally Posted by Fat Manveru123

This is the same gengar that ~Mercury~ used. It was what I needed and worked pretty damn well as my lead. I was also trying Frosslass here, but even though she's faster, her SpA is too low compared to this guy.

A minor point, but Froslass is not faster. Froslass and Gengar both have a base speed of 110, so will speed tie if they have the same IVs, EVs, and nature. Froslass does have one small advantage as a Destiny Bond sasher in that hail doesn't break its Focus Sash, but yeah, Gengar is definitely better.

Congrats on the streak!

[Chinese Dood]

Froslass also has more powerful ice moves which might be of use (but yeah Gengar is obviously better overall).

But Manveru123, I find the EVs for your Dragonite to be strange. A number of us use Adamant with EVs mostly focused on HP and Attack, for setting up more than 1 DD while delivering massive damage.

The only reason to use Jolly Dragonite, in my opinion, is if you really only want to have 1 DD. 212 Speed EVs is also odd in that case, because 139 Speed (208 after 1 DD) isn't a critical number outspeeding anything (see: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...8&postcount=10 for Subway Speed Tiers). It also just speed ties the 170 Speed EV Hydreigon.

I don't see anything with 211 Speed (Charizard, Heatran, Electrode) or 216 (Accelgor) being too huge of a threat, though you could raise the speed to 142 (+1DD = 213) if you want. Otherwise, getting to 134 (201) should be sufficient for outspeeding Aerodactyl.

If you were planning to have more than 1 DD, it's best to just use Adamant. But yeah, with Jolly, you want 1 DD, which means you also want max Attack to take advantage of that 1DD ... which also somewhat lessens the need/want for roost (i.e. you'd want another attack like EQ alongside fire and dragon for perfect coverage) ... that should be the implications of running Jolly imo.

Also, neither of the QD Volcaronas in Subway run any Speed EVs, which means your Dragonite outspeeds, so when it was +1QD Volcarona vs Dragonite, Dragonite should have used DD to outspeed next turn. Of course, your Dragonite was confused anyway, so it might not have made a difference (well, it's 50/50). But just saying, that's the correct move.

Of course you were just trying to beat the subway boss and you did it! So congrats! :)

EDIT: O yeah, as for me, I haven't had time to play any pokemon the past few days. Probably won't until my project is over sometime next week. ... making an iPad/Phone game with a team.

[Manveru123]

I went with Jolly and that EV spread because I wanted to try outspeeding more pokemon without DD. This is useful occasionally when I'm facing a weakened pokemon who would one shot me otherwise, or when I'm weakened myself and can't afford to take a hit. Let's just say that a lot of different situations happened to me in the subway, although next time I'll most likely get more Atk EVs.

Roost gives me more staying power and is especially useful when I have to battle with statuses on me. Losing flying typing is also crazy useful sometimes and was one of the reasons I went with this guy instead of Gyarados. I never felt like I needed another attack between Dragon Claw and Fire Punch, stuff that Earthquake hits super effectively is usually fodder for Ferro (even if he doesn't SE hit it, he can wall it).

Obviously I'm still a noob and any feedback is appreciated. That Volcarona loss also gave me an idea of trying a Volcarona/Suicune/some physical attacker (Lucario perhaps?) team, and I get the feeling that eventually I'll be back in the subway. It's really addictive :)

[Chinese Dood]

Yeah, it's clear why you wanted Jolly and roost, so you can probably see why it might not have worked out that well too. Outspeeding more pokemon without DD is only good if you are KOing your opponent, so that's why I said if you are going with Jolly, you should just max attack too to increase that chance.

Just that Jolly + Dragon Dance + not max or nearly max attack EVs = something that tries to do too many things at once, or just something that simply does not go well together. The roost part totally aligns with the HP EVs though of course.

Having tried teams with Volcarona and Suicune together myself, I guess I'll give a comment... that from my experience (which may totally be different from everyone else's), the two just seem to fulfill fairly similar roles. I mean, of course, Volcarona can cover for Suicune's grass weakness, and Suicune can take those physical hits for Volcarona fairly well, etc. But most of the time, I find that Volcarona/Suicune are useful in a team because of their ice resistance... i.e. ice resistance to cover for a dragon team mate usually (though Suicune pairs well with Gliscor too which is also 4x weak to ice).

So not that they shouldn't be on the same team, but more so: is that the best way to go about it? Like, with Volcarona, Suicune, Lucario, there are 3 steel resists and 3 ice resists, but nothing covering for Lucario's fighting and ground weakness, and Volcarona's rock weakness is mainly covered by Lucario's resistance (but just about all pokemon with rock moves will have fighting/ground moves), so that's putting a lot of dependence on Suicune's good defense to take on all those fighting, ground, and potentially rock moves.

EDIT: O yeah, i totally forgot Volcarona resists fighting, haha, but like how most rock move users have fighting/ground moves, many fighting move users have another physical attack that will put some hurt to Volcarona (though, I think not as common as the other way around I think).

So, when I look at that, I'd think, "if I want to keep Lucario, I might want to switch Volcarona out for something that can cover for Lucario's weaknesses better." Or, alternatively, switch Suicune out for something like Gyarados which pairs well with Lucario, but then there's the double rock weakness. So it's a constant switching around things until something seems to fit nicely I guess. Haha. Hope I didn't sound like I was bashing your ideas or something. It's sort of just the feedback of my thought process of the potential team.

[some_guy]

Super Singles streak 214

Shuckle @Chesto
Bold (+D -A) Sturdy
EVs: HP - 252, D - 80, SD - 176
-Power Split
-Rest
-Struggle Bug
-Stealth Rock

Gastrodon @Bright Powder
Calm (+SD –A) Storm Drain
EVs HP – 252, D – 252, SD – 4
-Yawn
-Flash
-Recover
-Memento

Salamence @Leftovers
Adamant (+A –SA) Intimidate
EVs HP – 252, A – 252, SD – 4
-Substitute
-Dragon Dance
-Roost
-Dragon Claw

Just another Shuckle/Mence variation.
Gastrodon is a good switch in for Shuckle, and its Storm Drain works even better than Water Absorb Vaporeon, as the AI just keeps on spamming water while I lower their accuracy.

Yawn is the most useful move on Gastrodon. I hardly ever use Memento except in combination with Yawn in order to switch Salamence safely into a fast poke with status moves.

I was a bit dubious about using a mono-attack Mence, as Static and the like could mess him up, but it didn’t seem to be much of an issue. At +6 he can 1HKO everything except a few steels, and most of them just Curse without attacking anyway.

I’ve faced just about every Taunt, Substitute, Belly Drum, Volt Switch, U-Turn and Explosion in the subway without any trouble, but still managed to lose in an absurdly simple way.

Battle 215 facing an Ice worker:
They led with a Frosslass, I used Power Split and 1 Struggle Bug before Blizzard froze Shuckle, I stalled out the remaining Blizzards whilst fully frozen for 6 turns, and then fainted.
I sent in Gastrodon, used 6 Flashes and a Yawn, then switch to Mence who set up with 6 Dragon Dances.
As I used Dragon Claw, Frosslass used Ice Shard, which hit, and critical hit, and took out my Sub.

Abomasnow came in and I realised I hadn’t had a chance to get Stealth Rocks up.

I use Dragon Claw, Abomosnow’s Focus Sash activates. It KOs Salamence with Blizzard and Gastrodon with Wood Hammer.


I don’t understand how other Power Split Shuckle users can get by without Stealth Rock.
The one time I don’t have it on the field it destroys me.

Anyway, I think I’ll keep using the team as it deals so well with almost everything in the subway.

[SimicCombine]

Originally Posted by Fat KimTheHuman

...

---

I'm kinda new to the battle subway but I've given it a go. I'm at 27 right now which isn't much compared to what I've seen here but I'm really enjoying it. I'm leaning towards a hyper offense team at the moment so here's a glimpse of my team ( I'm kinda lacking pkmns from past gen so I'll have to make due with these)

Darmanitan @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sheer Force
Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
IVs and EVs both unsure since it's from my in-game team ;-;
-U Turn
-Hammer Arm
-Flare Blitz
-Earthquake

Starmie @ life orb
Ability: Natural Cure
Nature: Modest
IVs: 21/xx/x/25/x/26
EVs: 4hp, 252 SpA, 252 Spd
- Ice Beam
-Thunderbolt
-Psychic
-Surf

Haxorus @ Choice Band
Nature: Adamant (+Atk, - SpA)
IVs: 31/31/x/x/x/31
EVs: 4hp, 252 Atk, 252 Spd
-Earthquake
-Dual Chop
-Outrage
-Dragon Dance (same haxorus I use in wifi :s)

*OR*

Garchomp @ Focus Sash
Nature: Jolly (+Spd, -Sp.A)
IVs: 31/31/x/x/x/31
EVs: 4HP, 252Atk, 252Spd
-Earthquake
-Outrage
-Stone Edge
-Swords Dance/Fire Fang

I do know the ivs of Starmie and Darmanitan are messed up and it's probably going to kill me when the opponent's poke become perfect. I'm in the process of breeding a better one atm.

I'm really debating between the Garchomp and Haxorus. I really do miss Mold Breaker but I'm scared of base 100s outspeeding and KOing me. When using haxorus, I was stopped cold by some trainer using Mandibuzz, Dragonite and Salamence. Probably loss due to misplay since I should have saved Starmie for Salamence and let Haxorus deal with Dargonite. Wasn't thinking straight that time. I tried fixing the 4x ice weakness of Garchomp with the focus sash and it does seem more useful that Choice Band in many situations . I'm also in a dilemma when it comes to trick room teams but I'll usually stall it out but are there any huge obvious flaws with my team at the moment~? I haven't gone far but those are the problems I have atm. I am really interested in the TrickScarf strategy but are there any good trick users available in 5th gen~?

All constructive criticism is well appreciated and sorry in advance if I do sound 'noobish' I'm still a novice :D Good Luck with your streaks and thanks for taking your time to read this :)

Your team is pretty similar to mine. I'd run Rock Slide on Darmanitan over Hammer Arm. Rock Slide is just a little weaker than Stone Edge thanks to Sheer Force, and Hammer Arm is a bit of a nonbo with choice scarf. I've been trying Yache chomp with SD, EQ, Outrage, and Fire Fang with pretty good results. Yache berry lets you survive essentially every ice attack, letting you either set up or hit hard. I tried Stone Edge for a while, but the coverage didn't do much for me and the lousy accuracy nailed me pretty often. Stone Edge hits flying types you don't want to get locked into Outrage against, but Fire Fang helps against levitating Steels and Skarmory. Not much survives a +2 Outrage, and if Darmanitan does its job, you shouldn't have to worry about confusion. A bulky Pokemon in place of one of your sweepers will help stall out against Trick Room. I run Suicune, but other good stallers are available.

[~Mercury~]

@some guy:
Congratulations to that streak.
Have you considered using a Lum Berry instead of Chesto to avoid being unable to do anything due to an untimely freeze / para? You could still use Rest and wake up immedately if your berry is not consumed before, and only a burn oder poison would "waste" it, while it could save you from bad luck with freezes, para and confusion. And poison won't be much of a problem, as with Toxic you are pretty much assured to get at least one Power Split and Stealth Rock out if the opponent uses it, and if the side effect of other poison attacks activates the foe will probably be unable to do serious damage to Shuckle anyway. Only burns from strong fire moves could be a bit annoying...

Oh and btw. your Gastrodon's nature-EV split combination is slightly suboptimal, as with a Bold nature and 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SDef you would get one additional defense point without any drawbacks. Of course that usually won't matter, but just that you know^^
Shuckle would also get an additional Defense or Special Defense point without losing one if you change the split to 252 HP / 84 Def / 172 SDef or 252 HP / 76 Def / 180 SDef respectively.
However, if you have imperfect IVs that might be different.

[some_guy]

Thanks ~Mercury~

You're right, it makes a lot of sense to switch to a lum! I never thought of that because Salamence was always using it with Outrage. Avoiding that first turn confusion is a big plus, as it's got about a 90% chance to hurt itself.

Thanks for the advise about the evs also. It's probably time to get serious about optimal spreads. The subway seems like the kind of place that'll take advantage of that missing stat point.

[lmitchell0012]

What do you guys think of this team?? I posted this in RMT, but I didn't get any responses. I should've come here.

As my wifi isn't working very well right now, I've really gotten into the battle subway metagame. In the past, I've tossed together some random pokemon to see how far I get, but I'm sick of having to restart after I already have like 28 wins (just an example). I thought a long time about the pokemon I was going to use for this team, and after giving it some serious thought, I've decided that these pokemon cover each others weaknesses and compliment each others abilities very well.


Tyranitar (M) @ Expert Belt
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 56 Atk / 252 SpA / 200 Spe
Naive Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Flamethrower/Fire blast
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse
- Superpower

Without tyranitar, this team would not be possible. Not only does he provide the sandstorm excadrill needs but he also dents physical walls making sweeping easier for excadrill. I thought long and hard about which spread to use, and I decided that this set is the best choice for tyranitar. I don't really need two physical attackers, since I already have excadrill, and the accuracy of his stab rock attacks is not appealing to me at all. Flamethrower completely destroys any steel type that stands in my way. Fire blast is an option as well, but again the accuracy is not intriguing.(Except scizor, who would bullet punch me to hell and back. He is handled by jellicent.). Ice beam takes care of the dragons, and dark pulse takes care of ghost and psychic types. I could have used thunderbolt over dark pulse, but jellicent already walls any water type who gets in my way so it's kind of unnecessary. Finally, superpower takes care of heatran, blissey, snorlax, and opposing tyranitar. Since tyranitar has issues with fighting, water, and steel type attacks, I have jellicent, who doesn't mind these attacks at all. In return, tyranitar doesn't mind the ghost and dark type attacks aimed at jellicent.

Excadrill (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Sand Rush
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- EQ
- Rock Slide
- X-Scissor

Excadrill is my main offensive powerhouse. With the sand provided by tyranitar, he will wreck unprepared teams. He is also able to absorb electric attacks for jellicent, which is greatly appreciated. I really what nature, EV Spread, item to use, but what I have above seems to make sense. Sand rush is used to outspeed the numerous pokemon who are faster than him (weavile, elemental genies, lati@s, etc.). EQ and rock slide are obvious attack choices, as the coverage they provide is greatly needed. X-scissor is chosen over shadow claw because my team is weak to grass attacks, and the extra damage against grass types is appreciated.

Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 172 HP / 252 SpA / 84 Spe
Modest Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Surf
- Energy Ball
- Shadow Ball
- Recover

Jellicent is my wall for this team. I've considered other water types, but jellicent can freely switch into fighting type move that other water types can't switch into (at least not as easily). However, I will consider other water types for this job if you have ideas. I've taken the choice specs set from the strategydex and replaced it with leftovers. This will allow jellicent to soften up opponents for excadrill and tyranitar before going down. Surf and shadow ball are my main stab attacks. I decided not to use scald since I don't like to rely on hax to win battles. Shadow ball is my other main STAB attack, and the occasional special defense drop is always appreciated. Finally, energy ball helps me deal with opposing bulky waters. I could have used ice beam instead, but since tyranitar already has it I feel it isn't necessary.

[ashez]

I'm thinking about a double's trick room team involving these as leads.

Slowking + Lightning Rod Marowak

So was wondering if anyone had any thoughts or ideas?

[Sir Real]

Has anyone tried No Guard Machamp + OHKO moves in Super Doubles? I don't have the patience to search this entire thread!

What would be the best poke with a OHKO move to use alongside Machamp? I'm was considering Landorus with Fissure but flyers, levitators, and balloon users can dodge it (unless No Guard overrides balloons?). My other idea was Durant with Guillotine, since the only thing it doesn't effect would be ghosts. No Guard would get rid of Hustle's downside too (or am I wrong?).

[Manveru123]

What do you mean? In double battles, No Guard only applies to the pokemon with this ability and any pokemon targeting it. So how would that work?

Also, since I'm considering a crippler lead, what would be the best defensive EV/nature spread for Uxie? Would max hp/def with Calm (+spd) work?

[ashez]

Originally Posted by Fat ashez

I'm thinking about a double's trick room team involving these as leads.

Slowking + Lightning Rod Marowak

So was wondering if anyone had any thoughts or ideas?

Sorry it would have to be Slowbro or Jellicent since i can't trade any more :(

So any ideas?