Black & White Battle Subway Records (now with gen. 4 records!)

[Eppie]

I gave Gravity a try since Rock Slide flinches and CH SE moves keep ruining my Trick Room streaks.

Thundurus (M) @ Focus Sash
EV's: 6 HP / 252 Sp.Atk / 252 Speed
IV's: 31/30/30/31/31/31
Stats: 155/121/90/177/100/179
Nature: Timid
Ability: Prankster

~ Thunder
~ Grass Knot
~ Focus Blast
~ Hidden Power Ice

Sableye (F) @ Lum Berry
EV's: 252 HP / 120 Def / 130 Sp.Def / 8 Speed
IV's: 31/31/31/31/31/31
Stats: 157/95/110/76/111/71
Nature: Careful
Ability: Prankster

~ Gravity
~ Will-O-Wisp
~ Night Shade
~ Wonder Room

Politoed (F) @ Choice Scarf
EV's: 252 Sp.Atk / 6 Sp.Def / 252 Speed
IV's: 31/30/31/30/31/31
Stats: 165/85/95/141/121/201*
Nature: Timid
Ability: Drizzle

~ Psychic
~ Blizzard
~ Hydro Pump
~ Focus Blast

Ludicolo (M) @ Life Orb
EV's: 36 HP / 252 Sp.Atk / 14 Def / 4 Sp.Def / 204 Speed
IV's: 31/21/31/31/31/31
Stats: 160/76/92/156/121/116
Nature: Modest
Ability: Swift Swim

~ Blizzard
~ Giga Drain
~ Grass Knot
~ Hydro Pump

Priority Gravity is awesome and the best part is that Gravity takes immediate effect. Firing off base 180 Thunders with 116% accuaracy is no joke.
I came up with Sableye and just put three fast Pokémon with overpowered innacurate moves together. Since the whole team works with Special moves bar Night Shade I gave Sableye Wonder Room to deal with stuff like Blissey. It's only a shame that Wonder Room has a negative priority.

I chose for Hydro Pump Politoed + Life Orb Ludicolo over Surf + Absorb Bulb because Hydro Pump actually makes Politoed a hard hitter for a Pokémon with ''just'' base 90 Sp.Atk. I barely lock Politoed into a different move than Hydro Pump since a resisted Hydro Pump in rain deals more damage than a neutral Focus Blast (135 vs. 120). Neutral Hydro Pumps reach a base power of 270 in rain which deals tons of damage.
Besides that, Thundurus and Sableye don't appreciate taking Stab Surfs in rain.

I'm gonna swap Taunt for HP: Ice or Wonder Room because Trick Room is probably gonna kill me sooner or later. I might even completely change the back up sweepers but for now it's alot of fun and streaks go sooooo fast.

[Jokethe1]

Originally Posted by Fat Eppie

Sableye (F) @ Lum Berry
EV's: 252 HP / 120 Def / 130 Sp.Def / 8 Speed
IV's: 31/31/31/31/31/31
Stats: 157/95/110/76/111/71
Nature: Careful
Ability: Prankster

~ Gravity
~ Will-O-Wisp
~ Night Shade
~ Wonder Room

I would use Spite over Will-O-Wisp because you'll deal easier against pokes like ScarfRampardos (with stalling his HeadSmashes out really fast) or other pokes with 5 PP moves like the powerfull DracoMeteor. Will-O-Wisp could help you to survive more physical attacks but we all know...a 75% hitting move will miss often in the Subway. Good luck anyways!

[Eppie]

Originally Posted by Fat Jokethe1

I would use Spite over Will-O-Wisp because you'll deal easier against pokes like ScarfRampardos (with stalling his HeadSmashes out really fast) or other pokes with 5 PP moves like the powerfull DracoMeteor. Will-O-Wisp could help you to survive more physical attacks but we all know...a 75% hitting move will miss often in the Subway. Good luck anyways!

Will-O-Wisp reaches 125% accuaracy during Gravity :)
It makes dealing with powerful physical threats so much easier..
Honestly, if you want to try Gravity, Sableye is the way to go and if two moves are certain, they are Gravity and Will-O-Wisp :)

Don't Forget that almost all Sturdy Pokémon are physical, reducing their physical power with 50% and the fact that it breaks sturdy is awesome !

[Jokethe1]

Originally Posted by Fat Eppie

Will-O-Wisp reaches 125% accuaracy during Gravity :)

Oh man! I'm really dump -.-... I totaly forgot the Grafity boost! Btw have you ever faced the ScarfManetric with the team? If yes how did you handle against it? Does it attack with Thunder or Switcheroo?

[SA1TS]

I finally managed to catch a Technician Breloom on my Black 2 cartridge and I've been busy breeding for a decent one which I'm planning to use as a Sash lead (Spore | SD | MP | BS). *Question is, what EV spread should I use?

I'm definitely going Adamant 252Atk, but how much speed should I run? I took a cursory glance over the Subway speed tier list but nothing jumped out at me and I'm considering just running 252Spd. I don't want to miss out on keeping the Sash intact by being outsped by something I could have KO'd/Slept with speed investment but I also don't want to waste EV's that could be better used in HP investment.

Input would be much appreciated.*

[Jokethe1]

Originally Posted by Fat SA1TS

I finally managed to catch a Technician Breloom on my Black 2 cartridge and I've been busy breeding for a decent one which I'm planning to use as a Sash lead (Spore | SD | MP | BS). *Question is, what EV spread should I use?

I'm definitely going Adamant 252Atk, but how much speed should I run? I took a cursory glance over the Subway speed tier list but nothing jumped out at me and I'm considering just running 252Spd. I don't want to miss out on keeping the Sash intact by being outsped by something I could have KO'd/Slept with speed investment but I also don't want to waste EV's that could be better used in HP investment.

Input would be much appreciated.*

Do you mean SeedBomb?

That could maybe help you

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...8&postcount=10

[Manitary]

BS means Bullet Seed I think, because of Technician

[SA1TS]

Yip, Bullet Seed. On average it's much more powerful than SeedBomb with Technician. It also helps against Sturdy pkmn.

[Pikiwyn]

I would go for a speedy nature rather than adamant, spore is one of the best moves in the game, so I think being able to use spore first 10% more often is better than a 10% attack boost, it's very situational I guess.

Anyway I tried the shell pass bait team, the power is insane! Shell Smash, Choice Specs, Helping Hand Eruption OHKOs every Pokemon in the game except Kingdra has a small chace to survive and Thick Fat Walrein survives, I got the Baton Pass most of the time, but when I don't get it there's a chance that I will lose and the subway always stacks the odds against you, Gorebyss is actually really good with a Shell Smash though so it's not dead weight, back to my old bait team for now

[SA1TS]

Originally Posted by Fat Pikiwyn

I would go for a speedy nature rather than adamant, spore is one of the best moves in the game, so I think being able to use spore first 10% more often is better than a 10% attack boost, it's very situational I guess.

Thanks for the input. I've considered a Jolly nature but a few things put me off. The main idea behind Breloom as a lead is to kill what I can immediately and use Spore as insurance for a safe switch or to incapacitate something I can't 1HKO. Power is the priority and Spore the back-up. The reason for this is Subway hax; sleep isn't as reliable on the Subway as I would like with all the one turn sleeps the AI is bound to get.*

The question remains, where is the trade off between power, speed and bulk at a premium on Breloom in the subway?

[Pikiwyn]

What's the rest of your team? Spore is awesome as a switching move if you have stallers

[SA1TS]

I haven't decided yet. I'm theorymoning different combinations of Suicune, Latias, Salamence and Scizor as numbers 2 & 3. At this stage I'm thinking Salamence (with Intimidate) and Suicune are the best candidates; good synergy and pretty self sufficient.

[cant say]

Originally Posted by Fat SA1TS

I haven't decided yet. I'm theorymoning different combinations of Suicune, Latias, Salamence and Scizor as numbers 2 & 3. At this stage I'm thinking Salamence (with Intimidate) and Suicune are the best candidates; good synergy and pretty self sufficient.

Defensive synergy is important. I always find the subway throwing fire 'mons at me when I have 2 or (not very often) more fire weak guys in my team. If you do chose Scizor you'll need something to counter them, so one of your other 3 options there could end up being your third. I've found Heatran to be good though, abusing flash fire on predicted fire moves is fun (will also help with Breloom's Flying, Ice and Psychic weaknesses

[SA1TS]

Heatran's an interesting option but I think I've got the Fire weakness pretty well covered between Suicune and Salamence. Brelooms more of a suicide lead as well and I'd like both backup pkmn to have boosting moves (in this case CM and DD, respectively). If I'm up against a lead Flying type I'll just Spore as I'm taken down to Sash or do as much damage as possible before going down in the event of Lum or Insomnia. Cune should beat specially based ones with CM and Intimidate can help against physical ones.

[Jokethe1]

Originally Posted by Fat SA1TS

I haven't decided yet. I'm theorymoning different combinations of Suicune, Latias, Salamence and Scizor as numbers 2 & 3. At this stage I'm thinking Salamence (with Intimidate) and Suicune are the best candidates; good synergy and pretty self sufficient.

Tyranitar could be a good poke because it resists all of Breeloom's weaknesses (Ice is the only type which Tyranitar doesn't resist). But SandStream would break Breeloom's FocusSash :/
But a pokemon like Wobbuffet could be good to strike with Counter/MirrorCoat back or using Tickle to lower the defense and kill the poke with boosted STAB MachPunch after Wobbuffet died

[Hozu]

I wouldn't recommend Tickle Wob considering that it's an ancient 3rd gen JP only event. Meaning that pretty much nobody has a legit one, let alone a good legit one.

[Jokethe1]

Originally Posted by Fat Hozu

I wouldn't recommend Tickle Wob considering that it's an ancient 3rd gen JP only event. Meaning that pretty much nobody has a legit one, let alone a good legit one.

Yeah true but it's a pretty funny combo with Tickle and MachPunch Breeloom

[lordmookie]

Hey everyone, I've been reading battle tower/subway stuff for a while and am excited to finally post on one of these groups. My team is pretty unoriginal, and thus maybe a little boring, but it was fun for me to finally get a substantial streak (just got into rng'ing...it changed everything).

Streak was in singles: 178

Starmie @ Life Orb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest
- Surf
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Psychic

Garchomp (M) @ Lum Berry
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant
ROUGH SKIN**
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- SD
- Sub

Scizor (F) @ Leftovers
EVs: Jump's bulky spread
Adamant
- Swords Dance
- Roost
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite

As I said, nothing too creative but man was it easy to play. It was good for really getting my feet wet in the subway. "Strategy" was pretty simple. OHKO with Starmie if possible or leave myself a bullet punch away on sturdy users. Natural cure was essentially the reason starmie led instead of scizor. Scizor felt like the star. Found myself instantly switching to it often because there are so many pokemon it can set up on. Chomp was needed for the electric cover but honestly didnt use it too much. One subtle difference is rough skin. Given the frequency (and implied frustration) of sturdy users, this ability saved me a good couple times.

I lost by playing like a moron against a pretty mediocre AI team
AI sends out whiscash, I don't a true answer for this so I just try to dent it
Starmie surf brings whiscash down to yellow
Whiscash earth power takes starmie ~30% hp
Starmie surf inexplicably doesnt 2hko
Whiscash takes out starmie
I send out scizor (maybe this was an error) and take it out with bullet punch
AI sends out tentacruel
I try to set up SD while it rattles of surfs
would have been fine but I got hit by one too many crit and scizor went out
I send out chomp, sub
Tentacruel surf breaks the surf
Chomp sends sub (another error)
Tentacruel surf breaks the surf
Now i just eq for the ko
AI sends out togekiss
I panic and go with outrage, which does about 55% but togekiss has a sitrus berry
Now I know I'm in trouble, but wait, air slash ch gametime

Just a bad (and boring) way to go out... now I have to wonder how to alter this crew. Would be interested in suggestions. The bitter part of me thinks that if I just had grass knot on starmie I'd still be going, but STAB psychic is probably the right choice.

I can post the screen shot of the record if anyone cares to see it, think I'll wait and repost if I break 200 (my goal is to get the berry after battle 203)

[SA1TS]

Welcome lordmookie. If you want to change anything on your current team I'd recommend using a Timid Starmie and Jolly Garchomp, Scizor is fine. Both Starmie and Garchomp miss out outspeeding critical pkmn if you dont run +speed. If you feel 'chomp wasn't that helpful you could try go with a Scarf set instead. Good luck

Originally Posted by Fat Hozu

I wouldn't recommend Tickle Wob considering that it's an ancient 3rd gen JP only event. Meaning that pretty much nobody has a legit one, let alone a good legit one.

Ya I don't have a Tickle Wob. Trying out 'Cune and 'Mence at the moment, it's early into the streak (49) but I'm seeing decent potential. 'Loom's been boss so far, I went max speed Adamant. Considering breeding a Jolly one though, I miss out on outspeeding quite a few flying types with Adamant but, damn, the powers awesome. I'll stick with it until this streaks over.

[Pikiwyn]

Just out of curiosity, when you guys come up with /breed/rng a new team that you are confident in how many times will you lose before say 49 before abondoning the team? I feel like I might be getting too impatient with new attempts lately

[SA1TS]

Originally Posted by Fat Pikiwyn

Just out of curiosity, when you guys come up with /breed/rng a new team that you are confident in how many times will you lose before say 49 before abondoning the team? I feel like I might be getting too impatient with new attempts lately

I draw the line at 5 attempts, if the team hasn't cracked 70 by then I move on to the next idea. There are too many possibilities to explore to stick to something that isn't paying off. And I start getting pissed off.

[Pikiwyn]

I give up on 3, unless I lose to really bad hax or misplay, but I have some of my teams reach 100 and then have the same team lose in the 20s several times, I guess luck is a huge part of the subway, wish it was just strategy.

[RED Pyro]

I haven't posted here in quite a long time, not since my weak T-tar and alakazam streak. After that I lost some motivation and got lost in school and other games. Lately I've tried a Mienshao/zapdos/murkrow/registeel doubles team, but it didn't turn out well, and left me longing for a good streak. I've turned to weather to (specifically sun) to hope cure that problem.

I'm still at the theorymon stage, but I think a nice general format to think about when making the team would be: a dragon killer, preferably something with ice shard, such as weavile or mamoswine, a bulky wideguard user to stop those pesky rockslides and surfs, and an actual abuser of sun.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

[Pikiwyn]

@ RED Pyro

Originally Posted by Fat Jokethe1

Hm...I've thought about a team which could work pretty good with your Entei...

Ninetails (Drought ability)
Nature & Item: Timid - HeatRock
Ev's: 252 Sp.Attack & 252 Speed & 4 HP
Moves: Flamethrower/HeatWave, HP Ground, SunnyDay, Solarbeam

SunnyDay for weatherchangers like Tyranitar or Hippowdon and for boosting your own Fire moves

Entei (FlashFire ability)
Nature & Item: Modest - ChoiceScarf
Ev's: 252 Sp.Attack & 172 Speed & 86 HP
Moves: Eruption, SolarBeam, Flamethrower, HP Electric

Simple set. 172 Speed to outspeed Electrode with the ChoiceScarf

Venusaur (Chlorophyll ability)
Nature & Item: Modest - ChoiceSpecs
Ev's: 252 Sp.Attack & 128 Speed & 128 HP
Moves: LeafStorm/EnergyBall, Solarbeam, HP Ice, SludgeBomb

128 Speed to outspeed ChoiceScarf Garchomp, LeafStorm/EnergyBall just for moments if SunnyDay isn't up (because of weatherchangers). SludgeBomb for STAB and HP Ice for Dragons like Garchomp, Salamence etc.

That should be a good team but as 4th poke ... I don't know maybe Gastrodon with StormDrain to absorb water attacks and hit with a boostet HP Fire back.

Instead of Ninetails you could use Vulpix too:

Vulpix (Drought ability)
Nature & Item: Timid - FocusSash
Ev's: 252 Sp.Attack & 252 Speed & 4 Speed
Moves: SunnyDay, Protect, Disable, Will-O-Wisp/Grudge

Defense and Sp.Defense Iv's should be zero

This team seems really good, as a forth member I wouldn't suggest Wide Guard though, Blizzard and Rockslide can mostly be countered by something like Mach punch or Bullet Punch, maybe Metagross or Scizor. Metagross gets Ice Punch and resists dragons too

[RED Pyro]

I really like the concept of a vulpix bait, and will definitely give metagross a try, as long as Timer0 stops trolling me.