Winning - A GenV RMT

[Woodford]

Yes; this is another generic rain team RMT, and I'm honestly sorry, but I figure rain will be banned (in full) eventually, and I may as well see if I can get some help to push into the top 100 for the ladder (peaked ~1300 / 110th). So, without further ado, I give you: "Team Winning"

Team Building Process:

...

---

The original rain team I ran was based around spamming Swift Swimmers, thus the reform to another generic team. The core and original idea of this team are two hard hitting rain abusers: Specs Tornadus and Band Gyarados.


Then I looked for the best (read: most generic) ways to support these two choice locked beasts, and noticed firstly, the lack of speed, and secondly, the common electric and rock weaknesses. Thus I chose a defensive core of possibly the most used BW 'mon Ferrothorn and everybodys best friend, Blissey. These two synergised fairly well (other than that glaring fighting weakness, but Gyra handles that OK) and acheived the purpose of covering my two Choiced sweepers weaknesses and supporting with paralysis.


Next I added a general failsafe to most fuck ups, and also another Thunder Wave'er: Prankster T-Wave Thundurus. This guy is a premier rain abuser with his massive 100% accurate Thunders, and most useful; that priority T-Wave for when things get a little too set up. .


So now I had my Genie Bros, and two fairly solid defensive supporters along with a physical attacker... what else needs to go on a rain team.. oh wait. Politoed! Alot of people really hate seeing this on a team preview these days, and that's probably fairly warranted. Anyway, on with the team.

Winning:
3 affected by Spikes, 3 immune.
3 weak to Stealth Rock, 2 neutral, 1 resistant.
2 affected by Toxic Spikes, 4 immune.



In Depth:




Sheen (Politoed) (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Perish Song
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hypnosis

Set overview:
You can't have a rain team without a rain inducer... Right? Well, Toed is probably one of the more unusual sets on the team, as it is used to counter a wide variety of opposing weather based threats such as Landlos, Excadrill and 'Chomp by killing their power, speed and hax respectively and KO'ing right back. He also serves as the teams best method of beating difficult last pokemon like Pringles and a form of phazing in Perish Song.

EV corner:
A simple spread of 252/252 to ensure he can counter the afformented 'mons and maximize the ability to fill in as a revenge killer if needed. Timid over Modest in this speed based metagame to let Toed outspeed base 130's such as Jolteon and hit them with a hard Hydro Pump.

Playing style:
Most weather starters are played very conservitely, but I break the mold with this one. I usually end up doing lots of reckless double switches into hazards to get the weather back. I think the best moments Toed sees are when people put their Breloom in the lead spot to deal with Toed, and end up getting slept rather than sleeping me. I've considered changing him to a standard bulkytoed set so he can stick around longer to rain on peoples parades, but having him really offensive helps keep alot of momentum, which is quite important for the flow of the team.

Changes

---

-Changed Toxic to Hypnosis
-Changed Hidden Power [Electric] to Ice Beam

Goddess1 (Blissey) (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 200 HP / 224 Def / 84 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Wish
- Protect
- Thunder Wave
- Stealth Rock

Set Overview:
Ahh, Blissey, the undisputed number one special wall in the game... other than her 'little-no-more' sister, Chancey. Though I still prefer Blissey for that very valuable leftovers recovery that works well with Protect. All this praise is for a reason, base 255 HP, 135 SpD and a typing that gives virtually no weaknesses on the special spectrum, and the cherry on top: the ability to pass the biggest Wishes in the game. I've previously used a Softboiled Blissey, but Wish helps Gyra counter some of the fighting threats to Blissey like Concledurp and Scrafty. Blissey is the main Thunder Wave-er of the team, spreading paralysis like a champ. SR, while not as dominant as it was last Gen, can still, arguably, put its hand up for best move in the game, crippling many top threats in todays metagame such as the Genies and Ulgamoth, while also destroying Sun teams.

EV Corner:
Blissey runs a fairly standard "physically defensive" varient, which adds a ton to her overall bulkiness, She can now stay in to T-Wave things like Gyra and DNite for a turn with out the same fear of being OHKO'd.

Playing Style:
Blissey has, and always will be the closest thing to a full stop for special attackers. Sure, there are things like Hammer Arm Thunderus that make her wee her pants, but given the right support she can sit there and take them any day.

Changes

---

-None

Goddess2 (Ferrothorn) (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Gyro Ball
- Spikes

Set Overview:
One of the most popular contenders of the fifth gen, everybody's favorite little iron plant joins my team in an effort to combat the over abused and very effective play style we all call rain.... As he is replacing Forretress, Ferrothorn serves as a hazards platform that help with wearing down opposing weather changers and limit double switches, thus letting me win the weather war. Gyro Ball replaces Thunder Wave so as to not be Taunt bait and to counter opposing threats such as Gengar and other fast, frail sweepers. Leech Seed used in tandem with Protect and rain support make this peice of steel-plant-mush a pain in the ass to take down, as something as powerful as Latios' and Magnazone's HP [Fire]'s can be outstalled. Stupid, right?

EV Corner:
128 Def / 128 SpD and a Sassy nature gives perfectly balanced defences of 330 Def, 330 SpD. allowing Ferrothorn to counter a variety of threats.

Playing Style:
Just like the rest of the team, I probably play Ferrothorn over aggressively, often leaving him in to Leech Seed basically anything so as to pass that extra healing onto a counter.

Changes

---

-Used to be:
Goddess2 (Forretress) (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 44 Def / 214 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes
- Gyro Ball
- Spikes

-Changed Thunder Wave to Gyro Ball

Winning1 (Tornadus) (M) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hurricane
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Dark Pulse

Set overview:
Who doesn't love a 100% accurate, 120 BP, STAB, 30% chance of confusion attack that has lovely neutral coverage? Why not throw in 125 base SpA, a Modest nature and Choice Specs to boot. Basically, switch Tornadus in and start clicking the Hurricane button as fast and as hard as you can till the opponents ragequit. Focus Miss and Dark Pulse give the unnessacary yet 'perfect' neutral coverage when combined with Flying-STAB, though they do see some use against the occasional Ferrothorn/Jellicent/Rank when I don't want to risk a non-Rainy Hurricane. Not sure if i've ever used psychic.. Considering replacing with Hammer Arm for something else to hit the predicted Blissey switch with, though, once again, Hurricane takes a nice chunk anyway!

EV Corner:
Too frail to consider investing in any defensive stats, so max SpA and Spe for this Bro. Modest over Timid mostly for the surprise power. People don't like it when their Ferrothorn gets 2HKO'd with some previous hazards damage.

Playing style:
Following the mould of many Specs sweepers, I try and get Tornadus in early game as much as possible (especially before rocks are up), with rain up, to punch huge holes and force switches in the opposition. Because of his epic power, often a resist is 2-3HKO'd where they expect a switch. The occasional confusion hax also add to this cause.

Changes

---

-None

Winning2 (Gyarados) (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Bounce

Set Overview:
Gyarados usage is finally rising again in the BW metagame after taking a brief hiatus from ruling GenIV, while people played with their new BW toys. With perma rain giving a pseudo CB to Waterfall, and an actuall CB boosting that, and all his other moves, a Band Gyra is actually quite a good alternative to the more traditional DD and Bulky DD/DTail sets. Waterfall for Double STAB, CB'd goodness with Bounce offering a secondary STAB. QuakeEdge rounds out the coverage and gives the ability to hit other (generally para'd) Gyarados' and a suprising threat in Toxicroak super effectively.

EV Corner:
Some more bland, predictable 252/252 EV's. I have been considering moving some EV's to HP/Def in order to help counter Fighting types, but max offensive stats are just too good to pass up on at the moment.

Playing Style:
Gyarados probably sees the most use on the team, and thus often dies first (or second behind the suicidal Thunderus). My two defensive pokemon share a common weakness and offer the opportunity for Fighting types to come in and set up. Enter: a flying type with Intimidate (yay for CaP's Tomohawk!). Win. If more Concledurp's ran SE, he wouldn't be nearly as good a counter, but at the moment, my rain boosted Waterfall's out damage their +0 paybacks. PS: I've learnt the hard way that a Gyra DOES NOT counter a Terrakion. Sad panda.

Changes

---

-None

Winning3 (Thundurus) (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 88 Atk / 168 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Thunder
- Thunder Wave
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Hammer Arm

Set Overview:
Added as a catch all revenge T-Wave-er, Thundurus servers the job admirably, often coming in on a set up 'mon and sacrificing himself in order to Paralyse so that Gyra/Tornado Bro can come in and revenge. Thunder, in the same vein as Hurricane on Tornadus, is that beautiful 100% accurate, 120 BP, STAB'ed, nice side effect move that makes Thundurus such a good rain abuser. HP [Ice] gives BoltBeam coverage and OHKO's Gliscgor and co. Hammer Arm is my best answer to Ferrothorn and Blissey/Chancey.

EV Corner:
Max Speed (Naive over Timid so as to not hinder Hammer Arm's output) for the best sweeping capabilities. 88Atk EV's gaurantee the 2HKO on blissey with Spike/SR support.

Playing Style:
I often find that I lead with Thundurus and end up wearing him down via LO without even having started rain. He just leaves such large holes in so many teams that aren't prepared to handle the coverage and power. As I said before, he is often KO'd first via suicide Paralysing.

Changes

---

-Changed Focus Blast to Hammer Arm
-Changed Timid Nature to Naive Nature
-Changed 252 Spe / 252 SAtk / 4 HP to 252 Spe / 88 Atk / 168 SAtk

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In Conclusion:
This team has many flaws, but the one thing it excels at is abusing it's strengths. Hopefully you guys enjoyed.

[Woodford]

Threat list (in alphabetical order) (stolen from Iconic with some edits)

Black is fine.
Orange can be problematic.
Red is dangerous, I really have to play my best to handle it.

Arcanine

• Physical attacker:
  Gyra can switch in on anything other than Wild Charge and Intimidate, otherwise Ferrothorn will take anything other than a Flare Blitz, with can be shrugged off with rain support.

Birijion

• Calm Mind: A great rain counter. Blissey can come in and TWave, then switch to Tornadus on the predicted CM, then KO.
• Swords Dance: I'm often saccing Thunderus to TWave, then Tornadus can KO. Gyra can do OK with variants lacking SE

Blissey

• General wall: Once a pink whore, always a pink whore. Gyra doesnt like the status, so my Blissey is the initial switch to scout what set it's running and to set up SR, then once I know Thunderus/Gyra can come in safely they can Hammer Arm/Waterfall respectively for the 2HKO

Borutorosu

• Nasty Plot: Whatever varient it is, it's dangerous. Hammer Arm is the only threat to Blissey, so she normally switches in and TWaves it then we go from there..

Breloom

• SubPunch: A bitch if they do the smart thing and sub first. Depending on how skilled the player is, I'll send (or leave) in Ferrothorn to get spored, then swap to Gyra on the focus punch to break the sub, then if he survives, KO, but if not, Tornadus will KO. HELP!
• Subseed : See above.

Bronzong

• Wall: Thundurus is the best switch in to start Thundering away.
• Offensive TR: If given set up opportunity will cause a bit of a problem, but TR can be stalled out by Freeothorn/Blissey with protects.

Burungeru

• Wall: Any water absorber will be annoying to rain. Thunderus is a good switch in, Ferrothorn can switch in, but hates a burn.

Cloyster

• Shell Break: Most often seen as a lead, thus Toed will 2HKO and can survive a +2 Ice Spear

Deoxys-D

• Spiker?:Tornadus/Gyra blast holes into it.
• Agility: See above.

Deoxys-S

• Lead: Politoed 2HKOes while they Taunt and Stealth Rock. Probably the best way of handling it.
• Attacker: Actually quite threatening, usually Gyro Balled/ Leech Seed stalled down by Ferrothorn.

Doryuuzu

• Swords Dance: Politoed generally comes in, kills it's speed and KO's. If I've lost the weather war, Thunderus can survive a +0 EQ and KO back, so I can't let him set up. Ferrothorn has a chance of Leech Seed stalling him down if played correctly.

Dragonite

• Dragon Dance: Multi-Scale makes it annoying, make sure Rocks are up to break the buff, then KO with Toed or Thundurus.
• MixNite: Get Ferrothorn in on a non-fire move, and then (with rain) Leech Stall down.

Erufuun

• Annoying little thing: The Tornado Bros. can KO with HP [Ice] or Hurricane respectively.

Espeon

• Calm Mind: Normally they come in on Ferrothorn to reflect a hazard. So I can either Gyro Ball for solid damage, and hope a HP [Fire] isn't coming my way, or swap to Thundurus to Thunder.

Forretress

• Spiker: Toed and Tornado Bros. hit it on its weaker side, though it will usually achieve its goal of spinning.

Garchomp

• Swords Dance: Thundurus can revenge, but generally Toed comes in on the SD, then they stay in hoping for the kill, but he Ice Beams first.
• Choice Scarf:Ferrothorn comes in on the dragon move and sets up.
• Choice Band: See above. It just hits harder. And Ferrothorn needs to actually avoid Fire Fang.

Gengar

• Life Orb: Ferrothorn can take even a HP [Fire] and Gyro Ball through its paper thin defences.
• SubSplit: If its SubSpilt with FocusBlast Ferrothorn will get really hurt trying to 2HKO it.

Gliscor

• Poison Heal: For some reason they quite often stay in on thundurus after absorbing an Electric move to be KO'd by HP [Ice]. Otherwise a water move will do the trick.

Gyarados

• Dragon Dance: I generally have to sac something to get a paralysis off, or i can try to outstall with Ferrothorn.
• Resttalk: Wait till Thundurus is phazed in then KO. He can't really touch anything else.

Heatran

• Choice Scarf: Gyrados absorbs Fire moves and Dragon Pulse and is immune to Earth power, making him a good switch.
• Balloon: See above.
• Substitute: See above.

Hihidaruma

• Physical attacker: Those FB's hurt even through rain. Gyra's intimidate helps here too.

Hippowdon

• Wall: Most of the time they will be switching in on Ferrothorn/Thundurus to reset the weather then gtfo'ing to avoid my water types, so having hazards helps wear it down.

Infernape

• Mixape: Gyra can switch into it with out much care.
• Swords Dance: See above.
• Nasty Plot: See above.

Jirachi

• Calm Mind Wish: Once I know it's a CM variant, I may try to cripple it with TWave, otherwise hammer it with a water move/Thunder.
• Choice Scarf: Often in the lead spot, so toed will Hydro Pump as they trick, other wise bring Toed in on the iron head and hit back hard,
• Sub + TWave (or TWave in general): MUCH more annoying, basically try and get a Leech Seed in with Ferrothorn as its the only one who can take both Iron Heads and TWave and just annoy it enough to force a switch.

Jolteon

• Special attacker: The only ones I've seen this gen spam Volt Change and generally make a bad switch sooner or later and get KO'd. Ferrothorn is pretty much a full stop as well.[/B]

Kabutops

• Swords Dance: Rarely seen now due to the compound ban, though if it manages to get rain up the old fashioned way it can be a threat, KO'ing even Ferrothorn with Low Kick, so the best bet its just to switch intelligently between Ferrothorn and Gyra to stall out rain, then KO with Thundurus.

Kingdra

• Dragon Dance: Ferrothorn stalls out.
• Special attacker: See above.

Kojondo

• Physical attacker: Often seen as a lead, Toed takes the Fake Out, then outspeeds and OHKO's, or gets to the sash then dies.

Kyuremu

• Special attacker: Kill the hail to get rid of it's 100% Blizzards and then use Ferrothorn to draw a Focus Blast for Tornadus to switch in on and KO back.

Latias

• Calm Mind: These things are a bitch as they will slowly stat up enough to overpower even Ferrothorn and Blissey, who normally wear the pants. Hopefully they don't have a sub up, so I can TWave with Blissey/Thundurus and then slowly wear him down with my attackers. Something usually ends up biting the dust.
• Choice Specs/Scarf: With rain neutering HP [Fire] variants, Trick is the only thing Ferrothorn is threatened by.

Latios

• Calm Mind: See Latias.
• Choice Specs/Scarf: See Latias.

Lucario

• Swords Dance: Gya can Intimidate to soften the blows. Try not to let it set up, but if it does I basically have to hope Toed is healthy enough to live through a +2 Extreeme Speed and O Back. Otherwise he pretty much sweeps.
• Nasty Plot: Blissey CAN wall him, though he'll just keep setting up. So switch the Bros. in on the NP, then survive the Vacuum Wave and KO back.

Ludicolo

• Rain Dish: Depending on its coverage move, switching between Blissey, Gyra and Ferrothorn will eventually wear him down. not really 'threatening'.

Machamp

• [Color="DarkOrange"] 4 attacks[/Color="DarkOrange"]: Tough to handle. Still predominatly seen as a lead, thus toed has a 50/50 chance of 2HKO'ing him before he does to me.
• Sub + 3 attacks : Such a bitch to take down, SOMETHING will more than likely die to break the sub. though can be handled easier if Gyra gets an intimidate in before the sub.

Magnezone

• Trapper: It all depends on what move of Ferrothorns he switches into. If its Leech Seed I win, If its anything else, he can sub before i seen and thus either wear me down or start charge beaming for the win. Threat varys based on the switch-in situations.
• Choice Scarf: See above, though no SubCharge makes it less threatening to the team overall.

Metagross

• Agility: Natteroi can wall, and can really only Leech Seed Stall and hope for not too many Meteor Mash boosts.

Nattorei

• Tank: Basically just a massive pain in the ass.. Will eventually be worn down if it switches into too many Hurricanes, Hydro Pumps and Thunders, other than that Hammer Arm/Focus Blast with the Tornado Bros.

Ninetales

• Nasty Plot: Politoed will always beat it 1 on 1, as the best it can do is energy ball on the switch.
• Defensive: Can be annoying, but the worst they do is generally spam Will-o-Wisp, keeps rocks up and kill it's weather.

Onokusu

• Choice Band: Swap in Natt, if it's outrage, leave him in and set up, if it's EQ, switch to Gyra to Intimidate.
• Dragon Dance: See above.
• Swords Dance: See above.

Politoed

• Defensive: I like their weather, so no need to stop it raining, basically slowly wear them down, Ferrothorn is immune to toxic, and takes nothing from Boil over. Blissey sets up rocks and TWaves.
• Choice Specs/Scarf: Blissy/Ferrothorn, as long as you avoid a specs focus blast, which will go to Gyra.

Porygon2

• Wall: Hammer arm? Wall with Ferrothorn? Just annoying, not threatening.

Randorusu

• Rock Polish: Rain gets rid of sand power, then Toed will need to take the unboosted EQ and KO back. Gyra's intimidates help. Ferrothorn can do a decent job of walling.
• Swords Dance: Switch toed in on the SD, then proceed to outspeed and KO.

Rankurusu

• Calm Mind: Hopefully rain is up, so Gyra can take the Psychic and 2HKO back. Tornadus
• Trick Room: Try and stall out trickroom with Blissey, and pass a wish to Tornadus so he can Dark Pulse. Will probably lose someone.

Roobushin

• Bulk Up: Will probably come in on Ferrothorn/Blissey and Bulk Up on my switch to Gyra leaving him with +0 Atk and +1 Def.

Rotom-W

• Wall: Rain makes HP [Fire] Crippled, thus Ferrothorn can outstall, but WoW is annoying.
• Choice Specs/Scarf: Watch out for Trick on Blissey, but other than that predict the attacks accordingly.

Salamence

• Dragon Dance: Ferrothorn as per usual, maybe pivoting in Gyra on fire moves to Intimidate then back to Ferrothorn to absorb Outrages.
• Mixmence: If Ferrothorn comes in on a DMeteor, a -2 Fire Blast does isn't threatening.

Sazandora

• Special attacker: Blissey survives any hit and TWaves and sets up Rocks. Probably won't see many till Lat@s goes.

Scizor

• Choice Band: Ferrothorn can take anything bar Super Power
• Swords Dance: Depending on how defensive it is, and Gyra's health upon switching in, I will generally just waterfall to try KO it.

Shandera

• Choice Scarf: Blissey for anything. Gyarados also does pretty well.

Skarmory

• Spiker: Thundurus and Toeds SpA will scare it off, and the only physically biased 'mon I have will still do a chunk with waterfall.

Starmie

• Special attacker: Ferrothorn and Blissey set up all day on him.

Tentacruel

• Toxic Spiker: The best answer I have is Thundurus, but he will acheive his goal of a Spin or a layer of TSpikes on the rest of the team pretty much.. HEY! There's a use for Tornadus' Psychic!

Terakion

• Double Dance: A tough customer indeed, as it doesnt even need its boosts to CC my defensive duo to hell and back. Basically pivot between Gyra and Ferrothorn getting intimidates.
• Choice Scarf: Predict accordingly. Ferrothorn for Rock. Gyra for Fighting.

Tyranitar

• Mixtar: Usually a lead, so i'll but Thundurus out front, who can OHKO with Hammer Arm if Tar is left in. Otherwise I get rain back up ASAP in order to let Ferrothorn to Seed Stall.

Urugamosu

• Sweeper: I usually have Stealth Rock and Spikes up so it's already below 40% when it comes in. Blissey can then TWave to kill its speed and let Gyra come in easily.

Vaporeon

• Wish support: Thundurus' Thunder eats it for dinner.

Venusaur

• Growth: Blissey for special variantsto kill its speed, then Tornado Bro. can KO.

Zapdos

• Special attacker: Blissey walls. It's usually seen swapping into Gyra, who, with rain and SR support will OHKO non-Physically defensive varients on the switch.

Zoroaak

• Nasty Plot: Hopefully its disguise is revealed by entry hazards, otherwise i may lose something to surprise, though it cant do too much to blissey.

Zuruzukin

• Bulk Up: Gyra is the best bet, to absorb Drain Punch.
• Dragon Dance: I can be gutsy and try to Protect on a predicted HJK with Ferrothorn or Blissey, otherwise Intimidate with Gyra.

[jhuni]

The biggest problem I see here is your 3x stealth rock weakness (Gyarados, Thundurus, Tornadus) and you don't have a spinner.

[Woodford]

Yeah, the best way to currently deal with SR (well, preventing SR) is just to put as much offensive pressure as possible right of the bat.

As for spinners, any recommendations as to where I can fit one in? 'Mons that I've tested for the spot so far:
-Forretress > Ferrothorn: Forretress just doesn't synergise as well with the rest of the team, and, to be frank, just isn't as good a Pokemon as Ferrothorn in the metagame.
-Tentacruel > Gyarados: Tentacruel is useful, and probably provides a much more reliable switch in to fighting types, though I found that I missed the offensive pressure and threat Gyra's rain-boosted Waterfall's brought.

I've considered an offensive spinning Starmie, but it feels like Concledurp/Scrafty will just Payback/Crunch on the switch to neuter him.

Any other suggestions?

[kingdra]

You are aware that Blissey cannot learn Wish, correct?

[Woodford]

My Pokemon Online team, along with many others begs to differ. But yeah, it doesn't come up on Serebii and the likes, but I'm fairly sure it came from an event way back.

The problem with this set is that getting Wish may be nearly impossible in-game. Chanseys with Wish were only given out from a special event in the New York Pokemon Center. Since that doesn't exist anymore, you cannot get a Blissey with Wish unless you trade with a person who has attended that event.
Because of this, the only possible natures this set can have are Modest or Calm, since those were the only two natures that the Chanseys had. If you spot a Wish Blissey of any other nature, you can be sure that it has been hacked.

Taken from Arkeis.

So yeah, a Bold Nature Blissey is technically illegal, but as long as PO allows it, then I'm sure many people will use her.

[Juice!]

Originally Posted by Fat jhuni

The biggest problem I see here is your 3x stealth rock weakness (Gyarados, Thundurus, Tornadus) and you don't have a spinner.

Not only that, but two of the SR-weak Pokémon are Choiced, meaning they'll be doing a fair amount of switching. Ferrothorn on rain teams is amazing, since having a grass type is nice, but since you're not even using a grass type attack on it, is it really worth using over Forretress? I think on your specific team, Rapid Spin is just leagues better than Leech Seed/Protect.

You said you used to run Forry, but I don't think you actually explained why you made the switch? If you did, I missed it, my bad. =P

[Woodford]

Yeah, the switching around when the opponent gets SR up is painful. I usually try to limit their opportunities to get it up, but you can't always stop them, so when that happens I try to limit the Bro's switch in's. it's actually surprising how much Leech Seed and Wishes mitigate SR...

Yeah, I agree that Rapid Spin > LS+Protect on this team, but, as you said; Ferrothorn shits over Forretress. Plus I rely on Ferro to counter so much, and when I had Forry I found him basically useless outside of spinning.

I'll give him another whirl, but if anybody else has any other suggestions about counteracting that SR weakness, it would be awesome!

Thanks for the input so far. :)

[Woodford]

Bump;

Still looking for help with this team. I'm sure you guys have some suggestions.

I've been playing with Forretress and Ferrothorn and it's still pretty much worth losing rapid spin in order to gain Ferrothorn's winning-ness.

So any help would be great. :)

[Chimpakt]

I think you should replace Thundurus with Toxicroak. It absorbs toxic spikes which could destroy your Bliss/Toed, and takes random water attacks your team doesnt want to take. It heals 18% per turn if it has Black Sludge and because of rain, you don't need to worry much about gliscor walling it.

The set i was thinkking was Max hp max spdef @ Bulk up / Sub / Drain punch / Sucker punch. You could also run Swords dance over bulk up and be more of a sweeper with less defensive investment.

I also don't like spikes on such an offensive team. Looking at your threat list, most of the pokemon that are big threats to your team can take on ferrothorn pretty well, so stealth rocks is pretty effective on it. It also frees up a move on blissey so it can seismic toss or heal bell.