CAP1 - Part 12.5b - (Pre-Evo Stat Spread Poll 2)

[Rising_Dusk]

This poll will determine the combination of abilities that CAP1's pre-evolution will have. This will be a bold vote, which means that you can vote for only one of the poll's options.

The following are options for this poll:

zyrefredric
Deck Knight
Nails

Many of these spreads were determined by calculations and competitive forethought, despite that PreCAP1 is purely founded in flavor. I think this is important, as otherwise we risk creating a superpowered behemoth for the LC metagame, which would not be good. Anyway, let's get this moving, and remember: This is a purely flavor segment of the CAP; CAP1's pre-evo will be banned during playtest, so don't assume that anything decided here will change the playtest in any way.

Here are the slated submissions in order of survival from the last poll:

Originally Posted by Fat zyrefredric

I am expecting that this rule (or the absence thereof) may lead to CAP pre-evos with relatively high BSTs, so i figured to do a little checking on current game data. I compiled a list of pre-evos of two-stage pokemon with the highest BSTs, presented below:

...

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*Scyther 500
*Tangela 435
*Misdreavus 435
*Gligar 430
*Sneasel 430
Ponyta 410
**Archen 401
*Porygon 395
*Yanma 390
***Muchlax 390
*Onix 385
*Lickitung 385
*Nosepass 375
Vullaby 370
*Aipom 360
Larvesta 360
**Omanyte 355
**Kabuto 355
**Lileep 355
**Anorith 355
**Tirtouga355
Growlithe 350
**Cranidos 350
**Shieldon 350
Buneary 350
Mienfoo 350
Rufflet 350
Drifloon 348

* pokemon that evolved at a later generation
** fossil pokemon
*** a pre-evo of an old gen pokemon

As you can notice, most of them are pokemon that evolved at a later generation. Most pre-evo BSTs range around 350 or lower. Ponyta way up there is a weird case though. I never knew it had that high BST before evolving. I was hoping to suggest a pre-evo BST range/limit, but Ponyta alone makes my whole argument moot, so I guess it really just depends on the submissions and TL discretion then. ^^ I personally opted for 350, same as Growlithe and Buneary.


105 HP / 60 Atk / 90 Def / 115 SpA / 80 SpD / 85 Spe (Total 535) — Tomohawk's stats
55 HP / 85 Atk / 80 Def / 20 SpA / 70 SpD / 40 Spe (Total 350) — Tomo's baby bro!


First thing to notice is how the pre-evo has a high attack (85 Atk) but abysmal special attack (20 SpA). I envision the pre-evo to be a fierce warrior cub, incapable of using arcane spells, but skilled in physical combat. Only after evolving into Tomohawk does it gain magic capabilities.

Second, it has really high defenses (55 HP / 80 Def / 70 SpD). Eviolite is, for me, the best competitive item Gen5 has brought to the metagame. I'm hoping CAP1 pre-evo can let us "evaluate" it's competitive merit.

Lastly, low speed (40 Spe), as without the wings (yet) it must be considirably slower than Tomohawk. Besides, Prankster allows us to bypass this low stat.

Level 5 LC stats
55 HP: 22 - 25 (236)
85 Atk: 15 - 18 (236) 19+
80 Def: 14 - 17 (196) 18+
20 SpA: 8 - 11 (196) 12+
70 SpD: 13 - 16 (196) 17+
40 Spe: 10 - 13 (196) 14+
(^ format stolen from Deck Knight)

(as requested)
Physical Sweepiness (PS): 78.73
Special Sweepiness (SS): 38.74
Physical Tankiness (PT): 97.96
Special Tankiness (ST): 87.32
Base Stat Ratings (BSR): 136.32

Even with a low BST of 350, you may notice that the PS, PT and ST are quite high. This is due to the low SpA, so you can say that my proposed stat spread is optimized to be a physical attacker.


Last thoughts:
I get the feeling that this Pre-evo stage in CAP is more for the LC players. But with eviolite, a pre-evo with this stat spread can be put to good use in the current metagame. I have no clear experience with Little Cup, so please advise me if this stat spread would make a broken defensive behemoth in LC.

Originally Posted by Fat Deck Knight

Yeah, I ain't doing big calcs for this.

Evo Stats: 105 HP / 60 Atk / 90 Def / 115 SpA / 80 SpD / 85 Spe (Total 535)

Prevo Stats: 65 HP / 45 Atk / 70 Def / 90 SpA / 55 SpD / 60 Spe (Total 385)

PT: 94.2233
ST: 76.2119
PS: 58.8863
SS: 107.1584
BSR: 158.4036

Stat: Base +3 (EVs) +

HP: 23 > 26 (236)
Atk: 11 > 14 (236) 15+
Def: 13 > 16 (196) 17+
SpA: 15 > 18 (196) 19+
SpD: 12 > 15 (236) 16+
Spe: 12 > 15 (196) 16+

Evolution Growth style: Munchlax (-5) -> Snorlax (-5).

Our prevo doesn't have its wings yet, but it's got a pretty good fighting spirit (Scrappy) so it's speed is middling. It's got a pretty good special attack, but it's HP is too high for it to abuse 19HP Life Orb. Considering that with Scrappy, Normal + Fighting is unresisted STAB, this is an acceptable balance. Our prevo is resistant to Sucker Punch and theoretically gets Vacuum Wave, so it should be just fine. Vacuum Wave/Aura Sphere/Hyper Voice/Hidden Power (Ice/Fire/Psy/Flying) should work quite nicely as a Scrappy set.

Originally Posted by Fat Nails

Base Stats: 60/35/70/65/60/65 - 355 BST

PS: 50.8995 SS: 88.2326 PT: 89.8389 ST: 78.9829 BSR: 139.7232
ODB: -.7514 (Biased toward Defense) PSB: -3.8785 (Moderately Biased toward Special)

No investment stats: 22/10/13/13/12/13

Various EV Spreads

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Offensive: Timid; 36 HP, 236 SpA, 236 Spd; EVs unaffected by HP Ice; Gives 23/9/13/16/12/17, giving it similar offensive power to Houndour stat-wise (one less SpA point and the same speed). However, it has far lower base power on its attacks, and far worse super effective coverage than Houndour, and would likely not carry a life orb.

• Hidden Power Ice vs Defensive Gligar (76 HP, 76 SpD) - 21-25 - A guaranteed ohko after Stealth Rock, and possible before. It cannot heal with roost on average.
• Aura Sphere vs Eviolite Scraggy - 19-22 - A small chance for a ohko after stealth rock. It has a 50% chance to ohko with modest, and with a life orb and timid Scraggy has a very small chance of living Aura Sphere without rocks. I feel that Scraggy should be a check to Minihawk (it can DD and then ohko with Drain Punch), so I tried to avoid the ohko on Scraggy, while also allowing Minihawk to bypass Scraggy, at the cost of a speed point or a significant amount of bulk.
• Scrappy Aura Sphere vs Offensive Misdreavus - 15-17 - Never a ohko. Does not 2hko on average if Misdreavus has an Oran Berry, however it's almost guaranteed to 2hko with Stealth Rock support. However, Misdreavus can ohko non-eviolite versions with psychic and has a shot to ohko with hidden power fighting after stealth rock, and it also outspeeds. Eviolite Minihawk is solidly 2hkoed by hidden power fighting (56% minimum).
• Hyper Voice vs Slowpoke - 11-13 - Never 2hkoes. Though unlikely, slowpoke can ohko Minihawk with Psychic in return with Stealth Rock support.

Defensive: Timid; 196 HP, 40 Def, 76 SpA, 116 SpD, 76 Spe; Accounts for a 30 Defense IV for Hidden Power Ice, but it doesn't affect the actual stats (it has enough leftover evs). 25/9/14/14/14/15 Stats, giving it 25/21/21 defenses after Eviolite is applied. The defenses are similar to Bulky Misdreavus (24/21/22 after Eviolite, assuming a spread with max speed), however, it doesn't have Will-o-Wisp, its immunity is far less useful than any of Misdreavus', and its offenses and speed are all lower. Additionally, its weaknesses are way more easily accessable than Misdreavus', so while its defenses are solid, they will be far from unbreakable.

• Timburr Drain Punch - 18-21 - Doesn't quite ko, but it underspeeds you and can heal off any damage you do to it. Mach Punch ohkoes next turn.
• Taillow Brave Bird before Guts - 23-27 - An example of a revenge killer, and a weak one at that.
• Slowpoke Psychic - 16-19 - A clean 2hko. Zen Headbutt also always 2hkoes.
• Timid Scarf Chinchou Hydro Pump - 11-13 - A shot at a 2hko. Modest 2hkoes most of the time.

Minihawk lacks coverage moves or stat up moves, and can't abuse status. It has a glaring weakness to fighting attacks, the best and most common type in Little Cup. Though it has a great ability in Prankster, it can't effectively use it, as it then loses coverage against ghosts. To compensate for its shortfalls, I gave it enough SpA so that it can hit a lot of stuff pretty hard and enough bulk to live a hit or two, while still remaining counterable/checkable. The abundance of fighting types and its good, not great speed means that it won't be sweeping anything any time soon, as it is easy to revenge and even with perfect prediction is has effective counters.

Here's our CAP so far:

Originally Posted by Fat Cartoons!

Support:

http://ivnbvn.com/images/fightflying_back.png

A backshot of the hulking figure.

http://ivnbvn.com/images/fightflying2.png
http://ivnbvn.com/images/fightflying.png

Name: Tomohawk
Typing: Flying / Fighting
Base Stats: 105 HP / 60 Atk / 90 Def / 115 SpA / 80 SpD / 85 Spe
Abilities: Intimidate / Prankster
Pre-Evos: One

Here's our pre-evo so far:
Typing: Normal / Fighting
Abilities: Scrappy / Prankster

[jas61292]

Nails

[reachzero]

zyrefredric

[Tomahawk9]

zyrefredric

[Korski]

zyrefredric

[zarator]

Nails

[Nastyjungle]

zyrefredric

[Xiom]

zyrefredric

[mudkipmaster]

Deck knight

[fairytale]

Nails

[ShyGuy1221]

Nails

[petrie911]

Nails

[Al_Alchemist]

Nails

[Eldrake]

zyrefredric

[NijaSkills]

Nails

[Naxte]

zyrefredric

[Sambobz]

Nails

[worcestershire]

zyrefredric

[AlphaJolt]

Nails

[NTT]

zyrefredric

[Jeslimak]

zyrefredric

[sp unit 262]

zyrefredric

[Darkhuaza517]

Deck Knight

[Flarephoenix332]

Deck Knight

[sax king]

Nails