Team Preview to be enabled at all VGC stops

Sixonesix · Apr 23rd, 2011, 7:50:16 PM

With the full ruleset finally out for public viewing, team preview has been confirmed to be turned on in the upcoming VGC.

Originally, VGC 2011 style battles were played assuming team preview would be on, like it is for most other battle modes. However, after hearing some testimony confirming it would be off in the Battle Competition by default, followed by a statement from Mike Liesik saying the decision to turn it on or off was up to him, we decided to turn it off on the simulator ladders, pending confirmation from TPCi either way. It has since been turned back on for the Skarmbliss ladder and for all future tournaments.

One major, incontrovertible plus to having team preview on is that it makes it much simpler to host genuine VGC battles on the cartridges independent of the actual tournament. Wifi battles cannot be held without team preview at all, and IR battles are level 50 all, which ruins some sets such as lv. 1 Endeavor Whimsicott.

Reactions to playing with team preview have been mixed. Some dislike team preview because it destroys the lead metagame, others praise it because it reduces the luck factor from lead matchups.

Anyway, please discuss.

ncsbert · Apr 23rd, 2011, 8:00:12 PM

Overall, while this is a disruptive change, I think it is a very good one.

VGC matches last so few turns already, and if you get blind-sided by poorly mismatched leads, you're already at a major disadvantage. Any mitigation of luck in the VGC is fine by me.

~~mudkipmaster~~ · Apr 23rd, 2011, 8:12:20 PM

This could decrease the use of fighting types, and increase the use of ghost types by utilizing immunities. Also, zoroark will be used on 0 teams.

CakesOfSpan · Apr 23rd, 2011, 8:17:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat mudkipmaster

Also, zoroark will be used on 0 teams.

While it may take up a spot on your team, having Zoroark forces your opponent to think about possibilities that he/she wouldn't normally have to consider - especially players in the early rounds that aren't as used to the standard VGC metagame.

**voodoo pimp** · Apr 24th, 2011, 1:36:00 AM

I wouldn't be surprised if some people put Zoroark on their team but never actually use it, just for the psychological factor.

Also, having Team Preview means that there's some actual strategy involved in choosing your four mons every battle. I approve of this change.

Werecario · Apr 24th, 2011, 1:49:14 AM

As much as I liked not having team preview, I do also like having it. It makes you have the upper hand if you can analyze a team well and figure out what type of team the 4 will be based off the 6 shown. I can usually spot a TR team or a sunny day team etc from the team preview and can plan accordingly. I think that this change will make good stuff teams a lot better.

Sy123 · Apr 24th, 2011, 2:08:54 AM

That means Team preview is actually good for Zoroark? I do the same for single battles, but yeah those metagames are largely different

**voodoo pimp** · Apr 24th, 2011, 2:22:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Sy123

That means Team preview is actually good for Zoroark? I do the same for single battles, but yeah those metagames are largely different

It's not good so much as different. In terms of actually using it, not having Team Preview is probably better, because it's uncommon enough that most people won't expect it. But if they know it's on your team, then you can play mind games that would otherwise be impossible.

soul_survivor · Apr 24th, 2011, 2:25:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Sy123

That means Team preview is actually good for Zoroark? I do the same for single battles, but yeah those metagames are largely different

not really as they can see zoroak on team preview. so they kno your either trying to strike paranoia or your actually intent on using zoroak which take a perfectly fine slot which could've been used for a better pkmn.

keelhauled · Apr 24th, 2011, 4:52:31 AM

However, I've seen numerous instances where people have seen Zoroark, and started Mach Punching a chandelure, so that seed of doubt could potentially give you a huge advantage. Moreso in the actual VGC where it is Bo1, that one mach punch could lead to you pulling off a kill, and taking an early advantage, which is very beneficial

mattj · Apr 24th, 2011, 7:14:28 AM

Mike had a good point. It actually gives meaning to "bring 6, pick 4".

13Random37 · Apr 24th, 2011, 7:33:06 AM

At first I really hated the change, because I had played without preview for some months :p
But I think, that it is a good thing for better players, since you can easily play around gimmicks, see the incomming threat of trick room, can guess about tail wind and so on.
Imprison Chandelure has it's shining team, giving TR teams no set-up, pokemon with a middle speed, like Hydreigon can be an effective way of dealing with the slow tr pokemon, after TR was sealed.
Against Tailwind you could probably TR yourself to get the speed advantage etc.
About the Zoroak thing: I don't think it's worth the slot. It would only work against good players and a good player wouldn't Mach Punch a Chandelure, just because he has seen a Zoroak on the preview.

soul_survivor · Apr 24th, 2011, 1:39:04 PM

yea i the bring 6 use 4 now has meaning. also instead of wasting a slot on zoroak ppl can use these slots to gain upper hand when it comes to battling tw and tr. i also think that there might be a rise in imprison chandelure as having trick room stops tw teams and having imprison messes w/ trick room itself,

drug_duck · Apr 24th, 2011, 3:04:48 PM

yeah now everyone just techs in a random imprison tr chandelure if their team isnt build properly to gain the upper hand in the speed war, I dont see where's the team building skill in this

~~mudkipmaster~~ · Apr 24th, 2011, 3:34:23 PM

Oh. Now I see the usage for Zoroark. Thanks to all!

Aqueos · Apr 24th, 2011, 6:56:34 PM

/: Now I need 2 more pokes.

Sniffles · Apr 24th, 2011, 8:47:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Aqueos

/: Now I need 2 more pokes.

Ugh, this also kills my choice scarf Excadrill because without any sandstormers it'll look really suspicious. So, for me it's 3 more pokemon.

breh · Apr 24th, 2011, 9:21:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Aqueos

/: Now I need 2 more pokes.

Pretty much my philosophy. Although team preview makes it far easier for success, it's still a bit of a pain to have to train more pokes.

(I knew taking a hiatus until rules solidified was a good idea!)

soul_survivor · Apr 24th, 2011, 11:30:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat drug_duck

yeah now everyone just techs in a random imprison tr chandelure if their team isnt build properly to gain the upper hand in the speed war, I dont see where's the team building skill in this

pretty much, but it was gonna be part of my lead anyway, so team preview helps me so much now. i dnt always have to lead chandelure w/o knowledge of a tr team or not, making me sub him out a battle i know trick room won't be apart in it.

kingofkongs · Apr 25th, 2011, 12:34:19 AM

At first I hated Team Preview, but now I'm loving it. Beat Up Whimsicott and Terakion always was a bitch to my team, and I couldn't do anything without changing my team completely. Now that team preview is in effect, I can just run a Meinshao in reserve just to beat it. Also, I find that the game is more strategic now, having to predict what your opponent is going to bring based on what you have based on what you have brings a whole new level of strategy to the game.

Huy · Apr 25th, 2011, 1:02:43 AM

Though this certainly makes it easier, I still don't like it as much. It takes a lot of emphasis away from building a successful team and has made it into more of a "pick 6 Pokemon that cover your weaknesses well" sort of game. Before, when you had a bad matchup, it was because you didn't cover all of your bases while you were building your team. Now, it's pretty much "fuck I'm weak to this, let's use this as a tech."

But for the simple fact that practice is now viable via WiFi instead of PO... yay.

drug_duck · Apr 25th, 2011, 12:14:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Huy

Though this certainly makes it easier, I still don't like it as much. It takes a lot of emphasis away from building a successful team and has made it into more of a "pick 6 Pokemon that cover your weaknesses well" sort of game. Before, when you had a bad matchup, it was because you didn't cover all of your bases while you were building your team. Now, it's pretty much "fuck I'm weak to this, let's use this as a tech."

But for the simple fact that practice is now viable via WiFi instead of PO... yay.

amen

you sir, are a gentleman and a scholar

Pokemafia · Apr 25th, 2011, 2:47:08 PM

If you built a good team to begin with it doesn't matter what your opponent sees and what they throw at you, atleast it shouldn't anyways.

BKC · Apr 25th, 2011, 2:51:49 PM

Yeah what Huy said really. I've never been a fan of team preview so I was excited to play some sort of gen 5 without it, and now this happens...ugh.

ImpendingDoom94 · May 8th, 2011, 10:55:26 AM

I'm perfectly fine with the team preview feature this year. If you build your team right, and have either a deceiving extra 2 or 2 other pokemon you can actually use, then I don't see a problem. I do like the idea of throwing a zoroark in my 6, I wouldn't use him of course, but team preview is definitely a great advantage for anyone whether they are using a zoaroark or not. Basically, the only way you could not benefit from this, is randomly getting beat by someone who successfully predicted and countered your team. I think it'd be pretty funny to have your extra two pokemon be at like level 48 or something like that, just to make your opponent think you're bad, lol.

Apr 23rd, 2011, 7:50:16 PM	#1
Sixonesix Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,592	Team Preview to be enabled at all VGC stops With the full ruleset finally out for public viewing, team preview has been confirmed to be turned on in the upcoming VGC. Originally, VGC 2011 style battles were played assuming team preview would be on, like it is for most other battle modes. However, after hearing some testimony confirming it would be off in the Battle Competition by default, followed by a statement from Mike Liesik saying the decision to turn it on or off was up to him, we decided to turn it off on the simulator ladders, pending confirmation from TPCi either way. It has since been turned back on for the Skarmbliss ladder and for all future tournaments. One major, incontrovertible plus to having team preview on is that it makes it much simpler to host genuine VGC battles on the cartridges independent of the actual tournament. Wifi battles cannot be held without team preview at all, and IR battles are level 50 all, which ruins some sets such as lv. 1 Endeavor Whimsicott. Reactions to playing with team preview have been mixed. Some dislike team preview because it destroys the lead metagame, others praise it because it reduces the luck factor from lead matchups. Anyway, please discuss.

Apr 24th, 2011, 1:36:00 AM	#5
voodoo pimp Apply directly to the forehead Moderator Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 2,962	I wouldn't be surprised if some people put Zoroark on their team but never actually use it, just for the psychological factor. Also, having Team Preview means that there's some actual strategy involved in choosing your four mons every battle. I approve of this change. __________________ Check out Smogon's new Doubles metagame! White FC: 4126-4421-4056 Black 2 FC: 3311-0920-4475 My Pokécheck Pokémon RNG is kind of like firing a gun. Why shoot blindly in every direction until you're lucky enough to hit the target when you can just take the time to aim properly and hit it with one shot?

Apr 24th, 2011, 1:49:14 AM	#6
Werecario Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 649 Posts: 0	As much as I liked not having team preview, I do also like having it. It makes you have the upper hand if you can analyze a team well and figure out what type of team the 4 will be based off the 6 shown. I can usually spot a TR team or a sunny day team etc from the team preview and can plan accordingly. I think that this change will make good stuff teams a lot better. __________________ HG FC: 3009 1616 9575 B/W FC: 3182 2310 5228

Apr 24th, 2011, 4:52:31 AM	#10
keelhauled Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 629 i love tab	However, I've seen numerous instances where people have seen Zoroark, and started Mach Punching a chandelure, so that seed of doubt could potentially give you a huge advantage. Moreso in the actual VGC where it is Bo1, that one mach punch could lead to you pulling off a kill, and taking an early advantage, which is very beneficial __________________ AMERICA VGS 2008 SENIORS - DID NOT COMPETE UK LONDON VGC 2009 SENIORS - DID NOT COMPETE UK BIRMINGHAM VGC 2010 SENIORS - DID NOT COMPETE UK BIRMINGHAM VGC 2011 MASTERS - TOP 32 UK BIRMINGHAM VGC 2012 MASTERS - TOP 387 LONDON ZIMBABWE CHILD ABDUCTION AND TRAFFICKING AWARENESS TOURNAMENT - 3RD PLACE CHATEAU LE DOZZ SHROVE TUESDAY ROUND ROBIN INVITATIONAL - 6TH VGC ABUJA, NIGERIA 2001 - LEFT OUT BY LOTTERY SO SPECTATED

Apr 24th, 2011, 1:39:04 PM	#13
soul_survivor Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 876 StatenIsland, NY	yea i the bring 6 use 4 now has meaning. also instead of wasting a slot on zoroak ppl can use these slots to gain upper hand when it comes to battling tw and tr. i also think that there might be a rise in imprison chandelure as having trick room stops tw teams and having imprison messes w/ trick room itself, __________________ FC: 2709 6546 0200

Apr 23rd, 2011, 8:00:12 PM	#2
ncsbert Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 232 GA	Overall, while this is a disruptive change, I think it is a very good one. VGC matches last so few turns already, and if you get blind-sided by poorly mismatched leads, you're already at a major disadvantage. Any mitigation of luck in the VGC is fine by me.

Apr 23rd, 2011, 8:12:20 PM	#3
~~mudkipmaster~~ Banned deucer. Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 751 credit to Fatecrashers for awesome avy	This could decrease the use of fighting types, and increase the use of ghost types by utilizing immunities. Also, zoroark will be used on 0 teams.

Apr 24th, 2011, 2:08:54 AM	#7
Sy123 Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 1,034 Orbiting the Sun	That means Team preview is actually good for Zoroark? I do the same for single battles, but yeah those metagames are largely different

Apr 24th, 2011, 7:33:06 AM	#12
13Random37 Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 142	At first I really hated the change, because I had played without preview for some months :p But I think, that it is a good thing for better players, since you can easily play around gimmicks, see the incomming threat of trick room, can guess about tail wind and so on. Imprison Chandelure has it's shining team, giving TR teams no set-up, pokemon with a middle speed, like Hydreigon can be an effective way of dealing with the slow tr pokemon, after TR was sealed. Against Tailwind you could probably TR yourself to get the speed advantage etc. About the Zoroak thing: I don't think it's worth the slot. It would only work against good players and a good player wouldn't Mach Punch a Chandelure, just because he has seen a Zoroak on the preview.

Apr 24th, 2011, 3:04:48 PM	#14
drug_duck Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 325 Erlangen, Germany	yeah now everyone just techs in a random imprison tr chandelure if their team isnt build properly to gain the upper hand in the speed war, I dont see where's the team building skill in this __________________ German VGC Runner-up 2009 VGC Germany 2011: Qualified for Worlds

Apr 24th, 2011, 3:34:23 PM	#15
~~mudkipmaster~~ Banned deucer. Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 751 credit to Fatecrashers for awesome avy	Oh. Now I see the usage for Zoroark. Thanks to all!

Apr 24th, 2011, 6:56:34 PM	#16
Aqueos Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 747 Slaving away for VGC	/: Now I need 2 more pokes. __________________ My Black FC:4040 6014 4141 My Trade Thread Aqua Falls If I cmt in your thread respond in mine.

Apr 25th, 2011, 12:34:19 AM	#20
kingofkongs Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 694 a fistful of quarters	At first I hated Team Preview, but now I'm loving it. Beat Up Whimsicott and Terakion always was a bitch to my team, and I couldn't do anything without changing my team completely. Now that team preview is in effect, I can just run a Meinshao in reserve just to beat it. Also, I find that the game is more strategic now, having to predict what your opponent is going to bring based on what you have based on what you have brings a whole new level of strategy to the game. __________________ "I am an overachiever and proud of it! Put this in your signature too if you agree!"

Apr 25th, 2011, 1:02:43 AM	#21
Huy INSTANT BALLS Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,510 for me it was tuesday.	Though this certainly makes it easier, I still don't like it as much. It takes a lot of emphasis away from building a successful team and has made it into more of a "pick 6 Pokemon that cover your weaknesses well" sort of game. Before, when you had a bad matchup, it was because you didn't cover all of your bases while you were building your team. Now, it's pretty much "fuck I'm weak to this, let's use this as a tech." But for the simple fact that practice is now viable via WiFi instead of PO... yay. __________________ (╯°□°）╯︵ [ニニニ] ＬＯＧＴＲＡＰ (╯°□°）╯︵ [ニニニ] ＬＯＧＴＲＡＰ (╯°□°）╯︵ [ニニニ] ＬＯＧＴＲＡＰ (╯°□°）╯︵ [ニニニ] ＬＯＧＴＲＡＰ (╯°□°）╯︵ [ニニニ] ＬＯＧＴＲＡＰ (╯°□°）╯︵ [ニニニ] ＬＯＧＴＲＡＰ (╯°□°）╯︵ [ニニニ] ＬＯＧＴＲＡＰ (╯°□°）╯︵ [ニニニ] ＬＯＧＴＲＡＰ (╯°□°）╯︵ [ニニニ] ＬＯＧＴＲＡＰ

Apr 25th, 2011, 2:47:08 PM	#23
Pokemafia Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 262 TOP CAT.	If you built a good team to begin with it doesn't matter what your opponent sees and what they throw at you, atleast it shouldn't anyways. __________________ TOP CAT TOP HAT IT'S A CONSPIRACY.

Apr 25th, 2011, 2:51:49 PM	#24
BKC Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,217 far away from the sun	Yeah what Huy said really. I've never been a fan of team preview so I was excited to play some sort of gen 5 without it, and now this happens...ugh. __________________ RYM

May 8th, 2011, 10:55:26 AM	#25
ImpendingDoom94 Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 75 Abysmal territory, US	I'm perfectly fine with the team preview feature this year. If you build your team right, and have either a deceiving extra 2 or 2 other pokemon you can actually use, then I don't see a problem. I do like the idea of throwing a zoroark in my 6, I wouldn't use him of course, but team preview is definitely a great advantage for anyone whether they are using a zoaroark or not. Basically, the only way you could not benefit from this, is randomly getting beat by someone who successfully predicted and countered your team. I think it'd be pretty funny to have your extra two pokemon be at like level 48 or something like that, just to make your opponent think you're bad, lol.