(Gen 3) Advanced Tiers Revisited revisited - Page 9

Mr.E · Nov 30th, 2006, 3:31:40 PM

I still stand by Tentacruel/Regirock/Golem bumping up a level each. At least we moved Steelix down.

And don't keep giving me that "power is irrelevant in tier formation" garbage. Or maybe it's supposed to be and we still need to refine the list a bit. I mean, how often is something like Donphan used anyway? ;/ Unless we have a secret list of usage percentages that everybody is hiding from me.

Jackal · Nov 30th, 2006, 6:14:36 PM

I forgot I posted in this topic.

Slowking is really bad, I wouldnt reccomend using it in competitive UU really as it doesnt benefit from an awesome DEF like slowbro has. Walreins defensive stats are more solid.

And walreins RARELY have eq, encore is even rare (unless you are 0rz apparently). Azumaril is really not that good and is not even that good a counter. Poliwrath is meh but you have to think about it this way: Do I want to use the subpar poliwrath on my team solely to counter walrein? I would much rather use walrein itself and let the other team worry about it. Lanturn really is the number one counter, and besides that what most people rely on is their own walrein something almost all (good) competivie players are running in the metagame currently.

The bottom line is, if your team does not have walrein or lanturn or one of those other subpar water types, and your opponent is running walrein with the standard set me and g80 mentioned, you are going to lose and there is nothing you can do about it (barring a timely ch).

There are ways to make kanga and the like switch out. Walrein fears (almost) nothing.

Ban walrein please. Especially for the upcoming weak sneak tourney. It will make the world a better place.

EDIT: clarified my slowking part as husk thought I was recommending moving it down to NU.

Mr.E · Dec 2nd, 2006, 5:42:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Jackal

Azumaril is really not that good ... Poliwrath is meh ...

argh no stop >:O

and kangaskhan owns you and owns walrein because he is gay but not as gay as dewgong still

Reflect Suicune · Dec 4th, 2006, 12:16:00 AM

my opinions... the more valid and better thought-out ones are at the top

Any NFEs that are too strong for the tier they would naturally fall into should be moved somewhere else. Random Example: No one uses Chansey, but it is too strong for UU play and thus should be moved to BL

Using chaos' example about people in tourneys, I am just bringing up the point that few people use BP teams in tourneys so no matter how common certain pokemon are on BP teams, the fact is, BP teams and their trademark pokemon are rare, and should therefore all be moved to BL...

Alakazam, Exeggutor, Venusaur, Marowak(not having lefties significantly diminishes his value), Gardevoir(used even less than zam is) should all be moved down to atleast BL, as they are rarely used, and are all not nearly as useful as many other pokemon that are OU.

I do not see regirock any more than I see registeel, and they are both equally useless, so one should be moved to the other's tier.

I could see Venusaur being in UU, because there are plenty of psychics, fires and other stuff that can easily handle him.

The UU metagame is filled with fire punches, flamethrower, waters and other stuff that can easily counter scizor, therefore it should be moved to UU.

This is just my experience but Cradily is boring and annoyingly hard to handle in UU, and I think it should be moved to BL

edit: nevermind dodrio, someone reminded me how awesome fearow already is

SHUCKLE MAN · Dec 9th, 2006, 4:19:10 PM

Ive just found out that Venusaur has been moved down to BL. I cant believe it. Hes used more than stuff like Dragonite and Vaporeon, and they are Standards (and imho they definately deserve to be where they are).

Sure, Vensuaur is not the world's best Pokemon, but he does pose a threat to some Standards and he is used a fair bit.

Well, I guess I cant do anything about it, and he is near the bottom of the Standard tier anyways...

Muchabi · Dec 11th, 2006, 8:46:13 PM

Vaporeon is used a more than Venusaur. More than lots of stuff. It's one of the 4 standard bulky waters, along with Suicune, Milotic, and Swampert. Wish, BP, and Haze make it stand out among the 4, though it's still the least used... Don't knock vap! lol. Srry, vap fan here. (see: avatar)

Oh, if Suicune ever rises any more in popularity, Vaporeon numbers will grow with that, as it IS the best wallish thing for it. Haze + water absorb.

I also use dragonite for heal belling, but yeah I'll agree it should maybe be borderline because everyone's stupid with Salamences. There's like 5 ppl that have ever used dragonite for an extended period of time.

Venusaur should stay in BL because I haven't seen many. Never EVER seen one on a tournament-caliber team...

Vap: Stays OU.
Drag: BL?
Venusaur: Stays BL.

Do make it clear that BLs should stay out of UU fights unless a warning is given, it really sucks when you play a rated UU match and a freakin Dodrio/Miltank/Jumpluff comes out... BL = TOO STRONG FOR UU

...and Walrein users should be required to put "I USE WALREIN" in their profile for UU teams. That is, if it doesn't go to BL.
(Meh, I'd just like to say that I'm not a horrible UU player, I win 90%+ of my matches (okay, okay, most UU players just play it for fun, but whatever), but a certain guy with Walrein beat me three times. And I have to say that it was the Walrein that did it, not the other pokes. Try playing UU with a team that you didn't specifically put Walrein counters in, and you'll see something.)

Think of Walrein in UU as Blissey in OU, annoyingly hard to kill, usually takes forever, but dang, we don't get stuff like tyraniboah or McIceGar in UU...

On another note that's not Walrein hating...
Donphan: BL? Effectively extinct methinks, since everyone that needs a ground uses... um... well... rhydon's apparently considered cooler, and swampert's more used.

***Mekkah***** · Dec 12th, 2006, 7:35:03 AM

Oh boy, that's a lot of nonsense you're posting there. : (

Quote:

Think of Walrein in UU as Blissey in OU, annoyingly hard to kill, usually takes forever, but dang, we don't get stuff like tyraniboah or McIceGar in UU...

Poliwrath. Substitute, Focus Punch, Hydro Pump, Hidden Power Ghost/Rock. Or squeeze in Bulk Up or Belly Drum. There's your antistaller everythingcritter that messes up Walrein for good. If you're affraid of Toxic, use Sleep Talk.

"I USE WALREIN"...god what's next? That smells like these suckers that are so scared of brazilians getting angry about their Skarmory/Blissey teams that they put "I use Skarm and/or Bliss" in their profile.

Quote:

Do make it clear that BLs should stay out of UU fights unless a warning is given, it really sucks when you play a rated UU match and a freakin Dodrio/Miltank/Jumpluff comes out... BL = TOO STRONG FOR UU

It's already there.

Quote:

I also use dragonite for heal belling, but yeah I'll agree it should maybe be borderline because everyone's stupid with Salamences. There's like 5 ppl that have ever used dragonite for an extended period of time.

What would you know about how many people used Dragonite? Noobster nearly won Smogon Tournament #2 with his Dragonite team (changed teams in the last rounds though), Dragonite was a staple on one of my premiere RS Bot teams and was going to be on my Smogon Tournament #3 team, lots of people have used it.

Vaporeon isn't used as much as the other three bulky waters, but still enough for OU status.

rekt · Dec 12th, 2006, 10:40:26 AM

Quote:

Think of Walrein in UU as Blissey in OU, annoyingly hard to kill, usually takes forever, but dang, we don't get stuff like tyraniboah or McIceGar in UU...

Why complain about Walrein in UU, when there are tons of things that can kill it such as Stantler, Kanga, Granbull. Complaining about a Pokemon being too hard to kill that doesnt have a recovery move(not rest) is stupid. Celebi and Blissey make sense, though Blissey dies to physical attacks, same with walrein. There are no celebi in UU, or anything likeit.

Jackal · Dec 12th, 2006, 12:14:05 PM

Stantler is my fav pokemon but even I know it cannot kill walrein ;__;

The only one of those three that stands a chance is kanga (the rest version, not the wish ones).

And Mekkah I don't want to be forced to use poliwrath =|

But I don't really care anymore I made 2 new solid uu teams and both have lanturn with rest so im not fucked by that fucking walrus. Too bad this is what I have to resort to.

Mr.E · Dec 12th, 2006, 2:53:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat SilverShadow

I do not see regirock any more than I see registeel, and they are both equally useless...

Regirock absolutely shits on Registeel.

And I'm a bit on the bubble about Walrein. I've been saying since 200 that Walrein was basically Lapras without Tbolt.

Pratty · Dec 12th, 2006, 3:38:28 PM

This may be minor, but Butterfree doesn't deserv UU status IMO. Things can sleep better then it in UU and it would be a perfect fit in NU. It gets countered Very Easy in UU, but in NU it seems to fit much better.

Some reasons that it seems this is:

Butterfree is easily outclassed in UU by other Double-Powder pokes. It dies to almost any attack in UU and will never be used a lot in UU.

in NU it might be able to sleep stuff with speed, Then Paralyze it! Sleep it! Flamethrower/Thunderbolt/Ice Beam/Rock Slide/Hidden Power Rock/Rock Blast(Nothing that learns Rock blast is in NU, but I'm showing you that most SE attacks will kill it). Also, After Double Powder, What does it have? Psychic? I came up with a Sweepers set for it, but it only swept 1/2 Pokes in NU and none in UU testing(Didn't even bother with Standards, It was obvious it wouldn't work). Others can test it out in UU/NU, they will see it doesn't Drastically change the NU metagame but is the pits in UU.

***Mekkah***** · Dec 13th, 2006, 3:39:29 PM

I'm just saying Poliwrath can act as a "Boah" of sorts by using Walrein to set up his dangerous stuff. Anyway I couldn't care less if Walrein was banned from UU, something else will become dominant and we'll keep it coming. Though Walrein's stats are surprisingly good.

Animerocks · Dec 23rd, 2006, 1:14:19 PM

Is there any good reason Ludicolo is standard? Because if he is standard then so is Eggy. =/

***Mekkah***** · Dec 23rd, 2006, 3:36:03 PM

Ludicolo counters Waters, especially Swampert. In Smogon Tours he's quite good due to lack of Celebi. Exeggutor doesn't counter anything completely. Apples and oranges, or coconuts and pineapples if you will.

Great Sage · Dec 23rd, 2006, 4:56:49 PM

Eggy needs a turn of setup for a Solarbeam against bulky waters, and during that turn its weak Special Defense gets slapped by a SE Ice Beam.

Mr.E · Dec 30th, 2006, 6:28:11 AM

Or you could just not use a SunnyBeam-based moveset. Exeggutor is versatile enough to warrent using something more "normal," you know.

Not that this has a damn thing to do with its tier placement. Eggy is the man, though.

DChiuch · Jan 29th, 2007, 12:18:11 AM

Many people will probably disagree, but in my opinion, Dragonite should be Borderline and not Standard.

As the tiers represent usage, Dragonite should be moved down to UU, as it is not used much (Breloom is used a lot more). It would then be bumped up to Borderline, because it is too powerful.

Quote:

What would you know about how many people used Dragonite? Noobster nearly won Smogon Tournament #2 with his Dragonite team (changed teams in the last rounds though), Dragonite was a staple on one of my premiere RS Bot teams and was going to be on my Smogon Tournament #3 team, lots of people have used it.

Yes, that is true, but people should also note that it is seen much less than Breloom, Ninjask or Cloyster (which are all Borderline).

david stone · Feb 1st, 2007, 9:43:54 PM

We really need to get started with NFEs. I recommend placing all non-distinct Pokemon (so not Vigoroth, Pikachu, etc., those are actual Pokemon) on the BL tier by default. This means we don't have to have Kadabra and stuff on the tiers at all, just say that all Pokemon not mentioned are considered BL. Then we look at the really weak NFEs. Put those into NU. To simplify things, we could just say that all NU NFEs are also NU. Then you don't have to include stuff like Ratata and Pidgey. NU could then include Pokemon like Diglett and the like.

Or, if this is not seen as a good move, then just say "All other Pokemon are considered BL", so these Pokemon at least have a tier.

teh n00b · Feb 2nd, 2007, 2:17:46 PM

Obi's first idea is cool++

And I thought the second idea was being used now ._.

david stone · Feb 2nd, 2007, 6:27:37 PM

Right now we have no information whatsoever on NFEs on the tier.

david stone · Feb 7th, 2007, 7:59:21 PM

Clamperl needs a tier. I recommend UU, as those poor defenses, combined with pathetic Speed, means it can't really make use of its boosted Special Attack. I don't want to add this unilaterally, because it can have an effect on a current tournament, Smorgasbord, although I doubt anyone would even use it. =)

Also we might want to consider either cleaning out this thread or making "Advanced Tiers Revisited yet again", because a 9 page thread is kind of intimidating and unwieldy, and many of the stuff on earlier pages has already been decided.

Mantis · Feb 7th, 2007, 9:35:44 PM

Let me just say this: Walrein does not deserve BL status.

Walrein isnt hard to counter at all. Any choicebander with a decent attack that isnt weak to ice beam/surf will win. Walrein is not the "Blissey of UU" and needs no Boah to stop it. It's weak to fighting and rock, and pokes such as wrath, kabutops , any of the hipmons beat it. And HEY! My name is Tentacruel and I laugh at walrein,who can't even toxic me. Sub to check for earthquake and if no EQ, GG.

Even the electrics beat it. ALL of them.

EDIT: Subpunch wrath is kind of unnecessary. Any experienced player would predict the sub and use encore. Just. Use. Brick Break.

nomargu46 · Feb 9th, 2007, 8:08:40 PM

espeon should be OU

flareon should stay UU

Great Sage · Feb 21st, 2007, 10:01:53 AM

I'd like to see Slaking moved down to BL. I haven't seen any of those for probably two weeks of heavy Netbattling.

rekt · Feb 21st, 2007, 10:37:29 AM

Slaking wouldn't see any more use in BL than it would in OU. Slaking is still a monster, people just choose not to use it.

Nov 30th, 2006, 3:31:40 PM	#201
Mr.E im the best Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,769	I still stand by Tentacruel/Regirock/Golem bumping up a level each. At least we moved Steelix down. And don't keep giving me that "power is irrelevant in tier formation" garbage. Or maybe it's supposed to be and we still need to refine the list a bit. I mean, how often is something like Donphan used anyway? ;/ Unless we have a secret list of usage percentages that everybody is hiding from me. __________________ FREE AND the Jump non ice beam cleric blissey

Nov 30th, 2006, 6:14:36 PM	#202
Jackal I'm not retarded I'm Canadian it's different Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6,129 Canada eh	I forgot I posted in this topic. Slowking is really bad, I wouldnt reccomend using it in competitive UU really as it doesnt benefit from an awesome DEF like slowbro has. Walreins defensive stats are more solid. And walreins RARELY have eq, encore is even rare (unless you are 0rz apparently). Azumaril is really not that good and is not even that good a counter. Poliwrath is meh but you have to think about it this way: Do I want to use the subpar poliwrath on my team solely to counter walrein? I would much rather use walrein itself and let the other team worry about it. Lanturn really is the number one counter, and besides that what most people rely on is their own walrein something almost all (good) competivie players are running in the metagame currently. The bottom line is, if your team does not have walrein or lanturn or one of those other subpar water types, and your opponent is running walrein with the standard set me and g80 mentioned, you are going to lose and there is nothing you can do about it (barring a timely ch). There are ways to make kanga and the like switch out. Walrein fears (almost) nothing. Ban walrein please. Especially for the upcoming weak sneak tourney. It will make the world a better place. EDIT: clarified my slowking part as husk thought I was recommending moving it down to NU. __________________ Last edited by Jackal; Nov 30th, 2006 at 7:06:12 PM.

Dec 4th, 2006, 12:16:00 AM	#204
Reflect Suicune Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 553 Agrabah	my opinions... the more valid and better thought-out ones are at the top Any NFEs that are too strong for the tier they would naturally fall into should be moved somewhere else. Random Example: No one uses Chansey, but it is too strong for UU play and thus should be moved to BL Using chaos' example about people in tourneys, I am just bringing up the point that few people use BP teams in tourneys so no matter how common certain pokemon are on BP teams, the fact is, BP teams and their trademark pokemon are rare, and should therefore all be moved to BL... Alakazam, Exeggutor, Venusaur, Marowak(not having lefties significantly diminishes his value), Gardevoir(used even less than zam is) should all be moved down to atleast BL, as they are rarely used, and are all not nearly as useful as many other pokemon that are OU. I do not see regirock any more than I see registeel, and they are both equally useless, so one should be moved to the other's tier. I could see Venusaur being in UU, because there are plenty of psychics, fires and other stuff that can easily handle him. The UU metagame is filled with fire punches, flamethrower, waters and other stuff that can easily counter scizor, therefore it should be moved to UU. This is just my experience but Cradily is boring and annoyingly hard to handle in UU, and I think it should be moved to BL edit: nevermind dodrio, someone reminded me how awesome fearow already is __________________ Originally posted by mfair4d I don't think salamence should be moved to uber. Recently a mence switched into me when i was using icebeam and bam down before it could move. Last edited by Reflect Suicune; Dec 4th, 2006 at 2:41:45 AM.

Dec 11th, 2006, 8:46:13 PM	#206
Muchabi Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 384	Vaporeon is used a more than Venusaur. More than lots of stuff. It's one of the 4 standard bulky waters, along with Suicune, Milotic, and Swampert. Wish, BP, and Haze make it stand out among the 4, though it's still the least used... Don't knock vap! lol. Srry, vap fan here. (see: avatar) Oh, if Suicune ever rises any more in popularity, Vaporeon numbers will grow with that, as it IS the best wallish thing for it. Haze + water absorb. I also use dragonite for heal belling, but yeah I'll agree it should maybe be borderline because everyone's stupid with Salamences. There's like 5 ppl that have ever used dragonite for an extended period of time. Venusaur should stay in BL because I haven't seen many. Never EVER seen one on a tournament-caliber team... Vap: Stays OU. Drag: BL? Venusaur: Stays BL. Do make it clear that BLs should stay out of UU fights unless a warning is given, it really sucks when you play a rated UU match and a freakin Dodrio/Miltank/Jumpluff comes out... BL = TOO STRONG FOR UU ...and Walrein users should be required to put "I USE WALREIN" in their profile for UU teams. That is, if it doesn't go to BL. (Meh, I'd just like to say that I'm not a horrible UU player, I win 90%+ of my matches (okay, okay, most UU players just play it for fun, but whatever), but a certain guy with Walrein beat me three times. And I have to say that it was the Walrein that did it, not the other pokes. Try playing UU with a team that you didn't specifically put Walrein counters in, and you'll see something.) Think of Walrein in UU as Blissey in OU, annoyingly hard to kill, usually takes forever, but dang, we don't get stuff like tyraniboah or McIceGar in UU... On another note that's not Walrein hating... Donphan: BL? Effectively extinct methinks, since everyone that needs a ground uses... um... well... rhydon's apparently considered cooler, and swampert's more used. Last edited by Muchabi; Dec 11th, 2006 at 9:01:45 PM.

Dec 12th, 2006, 12:14:05 PM	#209
Jackal I'm not retarded I'm Canadian it's different Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6,129 Canada eh	Stantler is my fav pokemon but even I know it cannot kill walrein ;__; The only one of those three that stands a chance is kanga (the rest version, not the wish ones). And Mekkah I don't want to be forced to use poliwrath =\| But I don't really care anymore I made 2 new solid uu teams and both have lanturn with rest so im not fucked by that fucking walrus. Too bad this is what I have to resort to. __________________

Dec 9th, 2006, 4:19:10 PM	#205
SHUCKLE MAN Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,098	Ive just found out that Venusaur has been moved down to BL. I cant believe it. Hes used more than stuff like Dragonite and Vaporeon, and they are Standards (and imho they definately deserve to be where they are). Sure, Vensuaur is not the world's best Pokemon, but he does pose a threat to some Standards and he is used a fair bit. Well, I guess I cant do anything about it, and he is near the bottom of the Standard tier anyways...

Dec 12th, 2006, 3:38:28 PM	#211
Pratty Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 556	This may be minor, but Butterfree doesn't deserv UU status IMO. Things can sleep better then it in UU and it would be a perfect fit in NU. It gets countered Very Easy in UU, but in NU it seems to fit much better. Some reasons that it seems this is: Butterfree is easily outclassed in UU by other Double-Powder pokes. It dies to almost any attack in UU and will never be used a lot in UU. in NU it might be able to sleep stuff with speed, Then Paralyze it! Sleep it! Flamethrower/Thunderbolt/Ice Beam/Rock Slide/Hidden Power Rock/Rock Blast(Nothing that learns Rock blast is in NU, but I'm showing you that most SE attacks will kill it). Also, After Double Powder, What does it have? Psychic? I came up with a Sweepers set for it, but it only swept 1/2 Pokes in NU and none in UU testing(Didn't even bother with Standards, It was obvious it wouldn't work). Others can test it out in UU/NU, they will see it doesn't Drastically change the NU metagame but is the pits in UU. __________________ "'Let me give you some advice, Captain,' he said, 'It may help you to make sense of the world. I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are the good people and the bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides.'" — Lord Vetinari, Guards! Guards! Last edited by Pratty; Dec 12th, 2006 at 5:05:17 PM. Reason: Added a more Comprehensive Arguement for my case.

Dec 13th, 2006, 3:39:29 PM	#212
*Mekkah* pfbwowbfobwobwobfwowbf Administrator** Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,847 Most of them are good	I'm just saying Poliwrath can act as a "Boah" of sorts by using Walrein to set up his dangerous stuff. Anyway I couldn't care less if Walrein was banned from UU, something else will become dominant and we'll keep it coming. Though Walrein's stats are surprisingly good. __________________ onions videos cameras models steroids dinoturtlethings

Dec 23rd, 2006, 1:14:19 PM	#213
Animerocks Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 381	Is there any good reason Ludicolo is standard? Because if he is standard then so is Eggy. =/

Dec 23rd, 2006, 3:36:03 PM	#214
*Mekkah* pfbwowbfobwobwobfwowbf Administrator** Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,847 Most of them are good	Ludicolo counters Waters, especially Swampert. In Smogon Tours he's quite good due to lack of Celebi. Exeggutor doesn't counter anything completely. Apples and oranges, or coconuts and pineapples if you will. __________________ onions videos cameras models steroids dinoturtlethings

Dec 23rd, 2006, 4:56:49 PM	#215
Great Sage Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 5,875 Boston, MA	Eggy needs a turn of setup for a Solarbeam against bulky waters, and during that turn its weak Special Defense gets slapped by a SE Ice Beam.

Dec 30th, 2006, 6:28:11 AM	#216
Mr.E im the best Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,769	Or you could just not use a SunnyBeam-based moveset. Exeggutor is versatile enough to warrent using something more "normal," you know. Not that this has a damn thing to do with its tier placement. Eggy is the man, though. __________________ FREE AND the Jump non ice beam cleric blissey

Feb 1st, 2007, 9:43:54 PM	#218
david stone Fast-moving, smart, sexy and alarming. Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 5,152	We really need to get started with NFEs. I recommend placing all non-distinct Pokemon (so not Vigoroth, Pikachu, etc., those are actual Pokemon) on the BL tier by default. This means we don't have to have Kadabra and stuff on the tiers at all, just say that all Pokemon not mentioned are considered BL. Then we look at the really weak NFEs. Put those into NU. To simplify things, we could just say that all NU NFEs are also NU. Then you don't have to include stuff like Ratata and Pidgey. NU could then include Pokemon like Diglett and the like. Or, if this is not seen as a good move, then just say "All other Pokemon are considered BL", so these Pokemon at least have a tier. __________________ Previously obi. Technical Machine, a Pokemon AI. "Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat." - Sun Tzu

Feb 2nd, 2007, 6:27:37 PM	#220
david stone Fast-moving, smart, sexy and alarming. Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 5,152	Right now we have no information whatsoever on NFEs on the tier. __________________ Previously obi. Technical Machine, a Pokemon AI. "Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat." - Sun Tzu Last edited by david stone; Feb 7th, 2007 at 7:58:06 PM.

Feb 7th, 2007, 7:59:21 PM	#221
david stone Fast-moving, smart, sexy and alarming. Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 5,152	Clamperl needs a tier. I recommend UU, as those poor defenses, combined with pathetic Speed, means it can't really make use of its boosted Special Attack. I don't want to add this unilaterally, because it can have an effect on a current tournament, Smorgasbord, although I doubt anyone would even use it. =) Also we might want to consider either cleaning out this thread or making "Advanced Tiers Revisited yet again", because a 9 page thread is kind of intimidating and unwieldy, and many of the stuff on earlier pages has already been decided. __________________ Previously obi. Technical Machine, a Pokemon AI. "Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat." - Sun Tzu

Feb 7th, 2007, 9:35:44 PM	#222
Mantis Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 31	Let me just say this: Walrein does not deserve BL status. Walrein isnt hard to counter at all. Any choicebander with a decent attack that isnt weak to ice beam/surf will win. Walrein is not the "Blissey of UU" and needs no Boah to stop it. It's weak to fighting and rock, and pokes such as wrath, kabutops , any of the hipmons beat it. And HEY! My name is Tentacruel and I laugh at walrein,who can't even toxic me. Sub to check for earthquake and if no EQ, GG. Even the electrics beat it. ALL of them. EDIT: Subpunch wrath is kind of unnecessary. Any experienced player would predict the sub and use encore. Just. Use. Brick Break. Last edited by Mantis; Feb 7th, 2007 at 9:42:20 PM.

Feb 9th, 2007, 8:08:40 PM	#223
nomargu46 Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 954 Pyrite Town	espeon should be OU flareon should stay UU

Feb 21st, 2007, 10:01:53 AM	#224
Great Sage Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 5,875 Boston, MA	I'd like to see Slaking moved down to BL. I haven't seen any of those for probably two weeks of heavy Netbattling.

Feb 21st, 2007, 10:37:29 AM	#225
rekt Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,473 Massachusetts	Slaking wouldn't see any more use in BL than it would in OU. Slaking is still a monster, people just choose not to use it.