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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,061
London
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Introduction
Little Cup was spawned in Pokemon Stadium 2. The idea was that you bred to achieve the perfect baby Pokemon to battle. It was later reintroduced for Advance, and now Little Cup is back for the 4th Generation. The metagame is generally faster-paced than the standard OverUsed metagame which results in a speed-centered environment where Pokemon rely on their resistances and immunities to counter the opponent's team and from there, execute their own team's strategy. Rules
Item Clause In the earlier stages of Little Cup, it was thought necessary that Item Clause should be in effect, the main reason being the propensity of players to put the item Focus Sash on multiple Pokemon and allow the Pokemon to survive what should be an OHKO and perhaps kill its counter. Since then, there has been a shift of thinking and Item Clause is widely thought to be unneeded. One of the main reasons for this is the prominence of Stealth Rock, which when laid early will nullify Focus Sash unless it is removed by Rapid Spin. Furthermore, D/P brought Little Cup two new auto-weather inducers in the form of Snover and Hippopotas and so a Focus Sash user will die at the end of the turn should it use its item and take damage from Hail or the Sandstorm. Finally, the addition of Life Orb means that the typical Focus Sash users, frail but fast Pokemon, are forced to give up the extra damage output afforded by Life Orb over the ability to potential survive a hit that would normally kill it. Banned Pokemon
DeepSeaTooth Clamperl is not banned but the DeepSeaTooth item is. DeepSeaTooth can give Clamperl up to 36 Special Attack, more than a Modest Choice Specs Abra, whilst still retaining freedom to switch attacks. Surf, Ice Beam and Hidden Power [Electric] or Hidden Power [Grass] provide good coverage and not even Munchlax, the Pokemon widely considered to be the best Special wall in Little Cup, can switch in on Surf, being 2HKOed even taking Oran Berry into account. Its low speed is a problem but if it is Baton Passed one Agility then it will be incredibly dominant over an opponent's team. Without DeepSeaTooth however, Clamperl is much more manageable. Eligible Pokemon RBY Pokemon GSC Pokemon RSE Pokemon D/P Pokemon Move Legality - Credit to Mr Happy for the research Since Little Cup is played with Level 5 Pokemon there can be discrepancies with Level 100 play in the OverUsed metagame with regards to what moves certain Pokemon can or cannot learn at that level. It is important to check whether or not certain Pokemon can legitimately learn at Level 5 since it is forbidden to use moves that cannot be learnt by the Pokemon by said level. This section will guide you through the ways in which certain moves and move combinations are illegal. Note that impossible breeding combinations such as Hypnosis + Nasty Plot Zubat are already assumed illegal. Genderless Pokemon Genderless Pokemon lack the ability to breed unless it is with a Ditto. Thus, they do not have egg moves and lack the ability to pass on level-up moves to their offspring. As a consequence, genderless Pokemon in Little Cup cannot have any level-up move that is learned beyond Level 5. Take for example a Porygon. Its staple move is Tri Attack. However, it learns it at a higher level than 5, and is genderless. Thus, Tri Attack Porygon is illegal at Level 5. Bronzor is in the same boat: its evolution, Bronzong is often seen with Hypnosis, which Bronzor learns at Level 7 and thus is illegal in Little Cup. D/P Introduced Moves Moves, both egg and level-up, that were introduced in the fourth generation moves, and are learned after Level 5, are illegal together with third generation Move Tutor moves. For example, Body Slam + Fire Fang Houndour is illegal, since Fire Fang is learned after level 5, and is thus not compatible with Body Slam, a 3rd generation move tutor attack. Third Generation Move Tutor / Other Game Special Moves These moves are illegal together with any move introduced in D/P that is an egg move or is learned after Level 5. An example of this would be Body Slam (third generation tutor move) + Cross Chop (egg move) Elekid. They are also illegal with any new ability introduced in D/P, since the ability change only occurs during evolution. For example, Pickup Meowth with Double-edge is legal, but Technician Double-edge Meowth is not. Little Cup Pokemon that can use a move that comes from Pokemon XD and is caught in that game at a level higher than 5 are illegal with that move. In the event they are able to use it, it will be illegal together with any egg or level-up move. Special moves from Pokemon Box eggs are illegal with any level-up or egg move, as they come from a pre-made egg that hatches at Level 5. This is the reason why Belly Drum + ExtremeSpeed Zigzagoon is illegal; as ExtremeSpeed comes from an egg from Pokémon Box, and it hatches at Level 5. For Belly Drum to be available to that Zigzagoon, it would be needed for two Linoone with Belly Drum to breed, but that egg cannot hatch with ExtremeSpeed. Event Moves Event moves are illegal together with any Egg Move or Level-up move learned after Level 5. If said event took place in D/P, they are also illegal with any 3rd generation move. EV Distribution in Little Cup - Credit to Mr Happy for the research Code:
Little Cup is a metagame that is played at Level 5. As such, the stats are calculated in a different way. Pokémon at Level 5 need different types of EV spreads than Level 100 ones. This guide will attempt to explain how to achieve the maximum potential of the 510 EV points you have at your disposal. At level 5, there is not a huge gap when comparing very similar Base Stats. Take for an example: if we compare a Hippotas's (base 72) and Goldeen's (base 67) Attacks at level 100 with maximum EV investment in both, we can see that Hippotas beats Goldeen by 10 points (243 against 233). But if we take those same Pokémon and set them to Level 5, we can see that they both have 16 Attack. Why is that? Wasn't Hippotas stronger than Goldeen? And why do a Level 5 Jolly Buizel and Jolly Magby, with Base Speeds of 85 and 83 respectively, tie in max Speed (both 19)? This happens because EVs affect stats differently at Level 5, and some Base Stat numbers max out with fewer EVs than others. Continuing with our previous example, we can see that: -Hippotas has a Base 72 Attack and maxes out with 180 EVs, the final stat is 16. -Growlithe has a base 70 Attack and maxes out with 196 EVs, the final stat is 16. -Turtwig has a base 68 Attack and maxes out with 212 EVs, the final stat is 16. -Goldeen has a base 67 Attack and maxes out with 220 EVs, the final stat is 16. -Koffing has a base 65 Attack and maxes out with 236 EVs, the final stat is 16. -Stunky has a base 63 Attack and maxes out with 252 EVs, the final stat is 16. -Snover has a base 62 Attack and maxes out with 180 EVs, the final stat is 15. We can observe a pattern here. Turtwig and Goldeen have a 1 BS point of difference between them, and they max out the stat with 8 EVs of difference. Koffing and Stunky have a BS difference of 2, and max out by a difference of 16 EVs. Yet, it seems their Base Stats all belong to a certain group of Base Stat numbers where the stat maxes are 16 with a neutral nature. Except for Snover, Snover only hits 15 Attack, and it needs 180 EVs to reach it. What we can conclude from here is that we can organize Base Stats at level 5 by 'Stat Ranges'. A Stat Range is comprised of a range of Base Stat numbers which are able to be maxed out to the same stat number but require a different amount of EVs to do so. Stat Ranges start on a Base Stat number which ends in 3, and finish with a Base Stat number which ends in 2. So, an example Stat Range would be: 63 (Stunky / 252 Evs) 64 65 (Koffing / 236 Evs) 66 67 (Goldeen / 220) 68 (Turtwig / 212 Evs) 69 70 (Growlithe / 196 Evs) 71 72 (Hippotas / 180 Evs) All these Base Stat numbers max out at 16 with a neutral nature. We can confirm that ONLY these numbers belong to this range, since a Pokémon with a Base 62 Attack (Snover) at level 5 with a neutral nature only reaches 15 Attack (thus, 62 belongs to the range below); in a similar way, a Pokémon with Base 73 Speed, at level 5 and with a neutral nature maxes out at 17 Attack (thus, 93 belongs to the range above). We can then conclude that as the Base Stat nears the next range, it needs less and less EVs to max out. On the other hand, the nearer the number is to the previous range, the more EVs it needs to max out. This amount of EVs needed to gain stats is directly related to the last digit of the Base Stat number. Table of EVs required for Stat gains This table will tell you how many EVs you need to raise a stat a certain number of points. It all depends on what digit the Base Stat ends in. If the Base Stat number ends in # then - x/y/z EVs are required required for 1/2/3/4 stat point gain: 3 - 12/92/172/252 EVs 4 - 4/84/164/244 EVs 5 - 76/156/236 EVs 6 - 68/148/228 EVs 7 - 60/140/220 EVs 8 - 52/132/212 EVs 9 - 44/124/204 EVs 0 - 36/116/196 EVs 1 - 28/108/188 EVs 2 - 20/100/180 EVs Note that these numbers not only apply to Speed; they apply to all stats. This means that the absolute minimum number of EVs to max a stat will be 180, and this will only happen if your Base stat's last digit is a two. This means that investing more than 180 Evs in Rattata's Speed (Base 72), Snover's Attack (Base 62) or Hippopotas's Special Defence (Base 42) will not get you any more points, and leaves some "spare" EVs once you have invested in your main two stats. On the other hand, the absolute maximum of EVs you will need to max a stat is 252, IF your Base Stat's last digit is a three. Magby's Speed (base 83), Corphish's HP (base 43) and Shuppet's Special Attack need the full 252 EVs to max out, however they have the advantage that your first stat point will only need 4 EVs. Stat Ranges A list of the Stat Ranges at Level 5 follows. This table will quickly tell you which number will reach your Pokémon once EVs are adjusted, depending on the Base Stat range it belongs to. --- RANGE 1: Stat maxes at 10 with a neutral nature, at 11 with a positive nature; HP maxes at 20 Base 5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12 RANGE 2: Stat maxes at 11 with a neutral nature, at 12 with a positive nature; HP maxes at 21 Base 13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22 RANGE 3: Stat maxes at 12 with a neutral nature, at 13 with a positive nature; HP maxes at 22 Base 23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32 RANGE 4: Stat maxes at 13 with a neutral nature, at 14 with a positive nature; HP maxes at 23 Base 33,34,35,36,37,38,39,40,41,42 RANGE 5: Stat maxes at 14 with a neutral nature, at 15 with a positive nature; HP maxes at 24 Base 43,44,45,46,47,48,49,50,51,52 RANGE 5: Stat maxes at 15 with a neutral nature, at 16 with a positive nature; HP maxes at 25 Base 53,54,55,56,57,58,59,60,61,62 RANGE 6: Stat maxes at 16 with a neutral nature, at 17 with a positive nature; HP maxes at 26 Base 63,64,65,66,67,68,69,70,71,72 RANGE 7: Stat maxes at 17 with a neutral nature, at 18 with a positive nature; HP maxes at 27 Base 73,74,75,76,77,78,79,80,81,82 RANGE 8: Stat maxes at 18 with a neutral nature, at 19 with a positive nature; HP maxes at 28 Base 83,84,85,86,87,88,89,90,91,92 RANGE 9: Stat maxes at 19 with a neutral nature, at 20 with a positive nature; HP maxes at 29 Base 93,94,95,96,97,98,99,100,101,102 RANGE 10: Stat maxes at 20 with a neutral nature, at 21 with a positive nature; HP maxes at 30 Base 103,104,105,106,107,108,109,110,111,112 RANGE 11: Stat maxes at 21 with a neutral nature, at 22 with a positive nature; HP maxes at 31 Base 113,114,115,116,117,118,119,120,121,122 RANGE 12: Stat maxes at 22 with a neutral nature, at 23 with a positive nature; HP maxes at 32 Base 123,124,125,126,127,128,129,130,131,132 RANGE 13: Stat maxes at 23 with a neutral nature, at 24 with a positive nature; HP maxes at 33 Base 133,134,135 RANGE 14: Nonexistant for Little Cup, no eligible Pokémon with a Base Stat between 143 and 152 RANGE 15: Stat maxes at 25 with a neutral nature, at 26 with a positive nature Base 160 *Range 1 starts at 5, the lowest Base Stat for a Pokémon allowed in Little Cup (Happiny's Attack / Munchlax's Speed) **Range 13 ends at 135, the highest Base Stat number of its range before entering the next (Munchlax's HP) ***Range 15 only includes Onix's Defense (160), as no other numbers enter this range. It is also the highest base stat of any Little Cup Pokémon. Demonstration To apply all this to a practical example, let's EV a Lv5 Totodile. We want it to be a physical sweeper, so we will maximize Attack and Speed, and if possible, dump the remaining EVs into HP or the defences. Totodile's Base Stats are 50 HP / 65 Atk / 64 Def / 44 SpA / 48 SpD / 43 Spe Its Attack is Base 65, so it falls under Range 6. We will use a Jolly nature, so Attack will max out at 16. Since 65 ends in 5, according to the table its Attack will max at 236 EVs. So far our spread is 236Atk. The Speed sits at Base 43. This is Range 5, so it will reach 15. It ends with 3, so we need 252 EVs to max it. The spread is now 236Atk / 252 Spe. We have 22 EVs remaining now. To gain a point in another stat, we need said stat to end in 2, 3 or 4. HP and the defences end in 0/4/8, respectively. Which means that you can get an extra 1 point in Def for 12 EVs. The spread is now 236Atk / 12 Def / 252 Spe We now have 10 remaining but we can't get a single point with them so they will go to waste. Now take a Lv. 5 Cyndaquil. We'll make this a Mixed Sweeper, with mainly Special attacks. Cyndaquil's Base Stats are 39 HP / 52 Atk / 43 Def / 60 SpA / 50 SpD / 65 Spe. Using a Naive nature, we see that the Speed is in Range 6, giving us 17 Speed. Special Attack belongs to Range 5, maxing out at 15. 65 ends in 5, so we'll make use of 236 EVs. The spread is 236 Spe. SpA ends in 0, so we'll have to invest 196 EVs to get to the maximum. This leaves us with 196SpA / 236Spe with 78 EVs remaining. We can gain a stat point more if one of the other base stats end in 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 0, 1 or 2. On our priority list, Attack is next. Fortunately, Attack's Base Stat ends in 2, so we only need 20 EVs to up it 1 point, but we don't have enough EVs for two points. The spread is now 20Atk / 196SpA / 236Spe with 58 EVs remaining. We can still gain a point if a Base Stat ends in 8, 9, 0, 1, 2, 3 or 4. Both HP and Def fit into this, HP is more important so we will do it first. It ends in 9, so we need 44 EVs, Making the Spread 44 HP / 20 Atk / 196 SpA / 236 Spe. Now there is only 14 evs left but maybe we can still squeeze one more point out of them. Def ends with 3 so it only needs 12 to get that extra point, we have just enough! Since we won't be able to up the other stats we are left with a final spread of 44 HP / 20 Atk / 12 Def / 196 SpA / 236 Spe. On these two examples, we first maximized the two most important stats and then checked if there was a way to extract some juice from the leftover EVs, thus maximizing the points gained from the EVs, you may not think that it is important for just one or two points but look at the differences between the spreads we just made and quick and easy 252/252 spreads: Totodile: 21/16/12/9/11/15 21/16/13/9/11/15 It may not look much different, but with spread 2 you will take every Physical attack 8% better, is that worth a few seconds of your time? Cyndaquil 20/11/10/15/9/17 21/12/11/15/9/17 Quite an obvious change here, 9% more Physical offence (almost as much as nature boost!), and it takes Special hits 5% better but Physical hits 15.5% better. That will significantly help Cyndaquil in quite a few situations. Hidden Power If you ever need to change the IVs of a Pokémon for Hidden Power purposes, make sure you add 4 EVs for each IV you substract. To make this clear: Say you want to give our Cyndaquil Hidden Power Grass 70. You need an Attack and Special Attack IV of 30. We were left with only 2 EVs going to waste on the previous spread, so we'll have to reduce defence (or HP, but HP is more important in this instance) to make up for it. use them to fix the attacking Stats. Changing the spread to 44HP / 24Atk / 200SpA / 236Spe should leave Cyndaquil's more important stats intact. Use this guide as a reference when EVing Pokémon for Little Cup to find the best possible spreads, and also to know whether your Pokémon will outrun, tie or go after a certain opponent. Stat Formula If anyone wants it here is the formula to work out the any stat at level 5: For HP (((2 x Base + IV + (EV / 4)) x 5 / 100 + 10) If the stat is not HP: ((((2 x Base + IV + (EV / 4)) x 5 / 100 + 5) x Nature) Base = The base stat for that Pokemon. EVs = The number of EVs invested in that stat. IVs = The IV for that stat (normally 31). Nature = 1 if the nature is neutral for that stat, 1.1 if it is boosting and 0.9 if it is hindering. Round down the answer to the nearest whole number, and if the stat is HP simply add 10 points to the end result. Some fun facts about stats at Lv. 5: 80 EVs = 1 Stat point 1 Base stat Point = 8 EVs 1 IV = 4 EVs This is quick sample of common Pokemon and their likely movesets. It is important to remember that this list is not exhaustive and you will likely encounter Pokemon not listed here and so it is recommended that you read the full list of eligible Pokemon. Notable Walls Bronzor @ Oran Berry / Shed Shell Levitate 220 HP / 4 Atk / 68 Def / 148 SpD IVs: 0 Spe Relaxed ~ Stealth Rock ~ Gyro Ball ~ Earthquake ~ Reflect / Light Screen Bronzor is the most prominent defensive Pokemon in Little Cup thanks to its wide array of resistances coupled with two further immunities. This allows it to take on powerful threats on both sides of the spectrum, such as Teddiursa, Gligar, Larvitar and Abra. Bronzor plays in a similar fashion to Bronzong in the OverUsed metagame, being an equally reliable Stealth Rock user as its evolution. Hypnosis is absent as Bronzor is genderless and it thus cannot learn it at Level 5. In its place, either Reflect or Light Screen can be used for team support. Shed Shell is a viable option on Bronzor, as Magnet Rise allows Magnemite to beat it one on one. Chinchou @ Oran Berry / Shed Shell Volt Absorb 156 HP / 52 Def / 228 SpD / 60 Spe Calm ~ Surf ~ Thunderbolt ~ Thunderwave ~ Confuse Ray Although Chinchou's 75 HP / 38 Def / 56 SpD defensive stats may seem lacking, its resistances certainly are not; Chinchou enjoys resistances to Water, Ice and Fire as well as healing 25% should an Electric attack be directed at it. These are common attack types used by special attackers which makes Chinchou worthy of a slot in your team should you want extra protection from the likes of Porygon, Houndour, Staryu and others. Surf and Thunderbolt takes advantage of Chinchou's unique dual-STAB to provide good type coverage (as such an Agility sweeper set is very viable) and in addition, Chinchou can make use of Parafusion to slow your opponent's momentum. Chinchou is very vulnerable to Diglett and so again, Shed Shell is an option. Perhaps the greatest tribute to Chinchou is the fact that many Water and Fire types carry Hidden Power Grass. Gligar @ Oran Berry Sand Veil 236 HP / 236 Def Impish ~ Earthquake ~ Roost ~ Stealth Rock ~ Stone Edge / Taunt Gligar makes an almost impervious physical wall with 105 base Defense and access to Roost. Consequently, Gligar is one of the best users of Stealth Rock as well as being a great switch into Fighting-type attacks but must be wary of Ice Punch, which both Mankey and Machop have access to. Despite this, it is one of the best switches into Cranidos, Larvitar, Rhyhorn and Croagunk. Mantyke @ Oran Berry Water Absorb 236 HP / 36 Def / 40 SpA / 196 SpD Calm ~ Surf ~ Ice Beam ~ Hidden Power Grass ~ Protect / Haze Whilst generally less common than Chinchou, Mantyke has a few advantages over its fellow special wall. Firstly, Mantyke has no fear of being trapped by Diglett and secondly, Mantyke boasts a huge 120 base special defense, meaning that it gets 24 HP and 23 Special Defense with these EVs. Its raw defensive stats allows it to negate most special threats that do not carry Thunderbolt and it has a useful niche in stopping Water-types and Fire-types that tend to use Hidden Power Grass for the more common Chinchou. The moveset is rather self-explanatory with the three damage-dealing attacks given to maximize type coverage whilst in the last slot, Protect can scout for a random Electric move whereas Haze can help with dealing with Croagunk and other stat boosters. Munchlax @ Oran Berry / Chesto Berry Thick Fat 76 HP / 156 Atk / 236 SpD Careful / Sassy ~ Return ~ Earthquake ~ Pursuit ~ Fire Punch / Fire Blast / Rest Munchlax is a top tier Little Cup pokemon, being both an offensive juggernaut as well as an effective special wall. Munchlax's massive 135 base HP and 85 base Special Defense turns it into a one-stop counter for all but the most powerful special attackers with Thick Fat only serving to further emphasize its credentials. On the offensive side of things, Munchlax's Return from 85 base Attack is one of the most powerful physical moves around and in combination with Earthquake, a fire-type attack of choice and Pursuit for Gastly and Misdreavus, Munchlax achieves perfect coverage. With regards to item choice, Munchlax's massive HP means that an Oran Berry heals around 30% of maximum HP and so the option of Rest and Chesto Berry is very viable. Shieldon @ Oran Berry / Shed Shell Sturdy 196 HP / 132 Def / 20 SpA / 132 SpD Relaxed / Sassy ~ Stealth Rock ~ Ice Beam ~ Thunderbolt / Flamethrower ~ Magnet Rise Shieldon is an extremely useful wall in Little Cup, being the best counter available to mixed Dragon Dance Dratini. Stealth Rock is rarer in Little Cup than in the normal OverUsed metagame and Shieldon's multiple resistances allows it to make good use of it. Magnet Rise allows it to escape the grasps of its nemesis Diglett as well as being able to avoid Earthquakes from common Pokemon like Munchlax and Bronzor. Ice Beam is listed to hit Dratini and Gible for super effective damage. Thunderbolt hits water-types and forms part of the BoltBeam combination whereas Flamethrower hits steels. Shed Shell can be used to keep Shieldon safe from Magnemite should you opt against Flamethrower. Finally, it is worth noting that Shieldon's already excellent 88 base Special Defense (higher than Munchlax's for instance) allows it to become an excellent special wall in sand, when paired with Hippopotas. Koffing @ Oran Berry Levitate 196 HP / 236 Def / 36 SpA Relaxed ~ Taunt ~ Sludge Bomb ~ Flamethrower / Thunderbolt ~ Explosion / Pain Split / Will-o-Wisp Koffing boats 95 base Defense and a typing that makes it the best fighting-type counter in the metagame. Taunt is useful for stopping sweepers using it as set-up bait. Sludge Bomb and Flamethrower provide good coverage, and the latter will hit Dry Skin Croagunk for super effective damage, although it could be replaced by Thunderbolt. Most Koffing tend to explode after they have finished their job although there are alternatives, should you want Koffing to stick around longer. Hippopotas @ Oran Berry Sand Stream 212 HP / 20 Atk / 212 Def / 20 SpD / 20 Spe Impish ~ Stealth Rock ~ Earthquake ~ Rock Slide ~ Slack Off / Yawn Hippopotas is one of the elite band of Pokemon in the metagame that can set up Stealth Rock reliably and is also one of two physical walls -- the other being Gligar -- that has access to a reliable recovery move. With these EVs, Hippopotas generates 26 HP and 18 Defense which combined with its Ground typing allows it to be an effective counter to Cranidos, Larvitar and Rhyhorn amongst others. Despite this, Hippopotas's premier attraction is its Sand Stream trait which makes it essential for sandstorm-based teams. Common Sweepers Dratini @ Life Orb Shed Skin 84 Atk / 196 SpA / 196 Spe IVs: 0 HP Rash ~ Dragon Dance ~ Outrage ~ Fire Blast ~ Draco Meteor The Mixed-Dancer Dratini is one of the most potentially destructive sweepers in the metagame. After one Dragon Dance, Dratini will reach the magical 21 speed mark which allows it to outpace all Pokemon without a speed boost (with the exception of the banned Sneasel and Scyther). A +1 Life Orbed Outrage will tear through anything without a gargantuan Defense stat that isn't of the Steel type and most Pokemon that can withstand Outrage will get roasted by Draco Meteor. For example, Gligar (with Max HP / Max Def+) which takes around 70% on average from a boosted Outrage, has a chance of being OHKOed by Draco Meteor and is OHKOed on average with Stealth Rock down. Fire Blast is almost the perfect move to round off the set, being another high base power move and completing the Dragon/Fire attacking combination which is unresisted. The most common Steel type, Bronzor, takes around 90% damage from Fire Blast. Shieldon (particularly in the sand) is the only Pokemon that can reliably take on and beat Dratini, although smart playing to lure out Outrage or Draco Meteor will help immensely when trying to stop it. However, do not be intimidated by Dratini, it is relatively slow before a Dragon Dance at 14 speed, so you can usually hit it hard before it sets up. It is also quite easily revenge killed with any moderately fast Pokemon with Choice Scarf and is weak to Ice Shard. Note: The 0 HP is to lower its HP stat to 19, meaning that Life Orb recoil is 1 HP or approximately 5% instead of taking twice that amount. Gligar @ Oran Berry / Yache Berry Sand Veil 236 Atk / 236 Spe Jolly ~ Swords Dance ~ Earthquake ~ Stone Edge / Aqua Tail ~ Quick Attack / Brick Break / Baton Pass Gligar can also function as a semi-bulky Swords Dancer and a very good one at that. Its defenses, typing and Oran Berry mean that a Swords Dance, or even two, is not hard to come by, after which it can hit very hard, OHKOing common Pokemon like Munchlax with Earthquake and dealing upwards of 80% damage to even Hippopotas, a physical wall. All this comes off the back of a speed stat of 19, which places it in the second highest bracket of unboosted speeds. Stone Edge hits Flying-types but Aqua Tail has the bonus of OHKOing outright opposing Gligar and Hippopotas after a Swords Dance With regards to the last slot, Quick Attack is useful for preventing revenge-kills whilst Brick Break is Gligar's best chance of beating Bronzor (it will nullify Reflect). Baton Pass can be used to bail out if Gligar faces a Pokemon it cannot beat with Buizel in particular making a good recipient of Swords Dance due to its complementary typing and access to priority attacks. Gligar @ Life Orb Sand Veil 156 HP/ 236 Atk / 76 Spe Adamant ~ Agility ~ Earthquake ~ Stone Edge / Aqua Tail ~ Brick Break / Roost / Baton Pass Agility Gligar functions more as a cleaner rather than a brute attacker like the Swords Dancer. Before an Agility, Gligar has a respectable 16 speed which in the space of one turn doubles into 32 speed, at which point you outspeed all Pokemon, even with Choice Scarf. Even without Swords Dance, a STAB Life Orbed Earthquake from 18 Attack is not to be underestimated; the same Hippopotas mentioned in the Swords Dance set comments, takes over 60% on average from Earthquake and the same Munchlax takes 87% on average. Stone Edge or Aqua Tail again, supplements Earthquake's coverage. In the last slot, Roost can help to preserve Gligar, taking advantage of the more defensive EV spread and recovering off Life Orb recoil. Gligar can also make a potent Agility-passer with Baton Pass an ever credible option. This set has more troubles with traditional Gligar counters such as Bronzor and bulky Grass- and Water-types but also punishes opponent's who rely on revenge killers such as Elekid or Choice Scarfers to beat Gligar. Misdreavus @ Oran Berry / Salac Berry / Life Orb Levitate 240 SpA / 240 Spe Timid ~ Calm Mind ~ Shadow Ball ~ Hidden Power Fighting / Thunderbolt ~ Destiny Bond / Substitute Misdreavus is a top-tier Little Cup Pokemon. Its three immunities - all of which are common types - allow it to come in often unscathed and its 19 speed stat means it will more often that not attack first. Misdreavus is most commonly seen as Calm Mind user and with just two attacks, it can gain complete type coverage. Its STAB Shadow Ball will hit hard after a Calm Mind and Thunderbolt hit Mantyke and other Waters whilst Hidden Power Fighting helps it beat Munchlax rather easily. Despite Misdreavus's offensive nature, Oran Berry is a good item choice for it as after a Calm Mind, Misdreavus will have 22 HP / 22 SpDef defenses and can function as a special wall of sorts. Salac Berry on the other hand, works well with Substitute and allows Misdreavus to outspeed most scarfers after a boost. Croagunk @ Life Orb / Focus Sash Dry Skin 108 Atk / 188 SpA / 198 Spe Rash ~ Nasty Plot ~ Vacuum Wave ~ Sludge Bomb / Dark Pulse ~ Sucker Punch / Cross Chop Houndour @ Life Orb / Focus Sash / Shed Shell Flash Fire 200 SpA / 40 SpD / 244 Spe Timid ~ Nasty Plot ~ Flamethrower / Fire Blast ~ Dark Pulse ~ Hidden Power Fighting Teddiursa @ Toxic Orb Quick Feet 116 HP / 196 Atk / 196 Spe Jolly ~ Protect ~ Facade ~ Crunch ~ Close Combat Teddiursa owes its potency to its Quick Feet ability, which allows it to reach the famed 21 speed mark should it be inflicted with status. On the first turn, you should use Protect to activate the Toxic Orb. From there, Teddiursa can decimate opponents with its STAB 140 base power Facade running off 17 Attack. Crunch hits Ghost-types whilst Close Combat hammers Rock- and Steel-types. Of Pokemon of those two types, only Bronzor and defensively EVed Onix and Rhyhorn can survive a Close Combat. Teddiursa is rather vulnerable to being revenge-killed, so Choice Scarf Diglett makes a useful partner as you can pick off bulky Rock-types and also slower Choice Scarfers that would normally try to end Teddiursa's sweep. Larvitar @ Toxic Orb Guts 36 HP / 244 Atk / 188 Spe Jolly ~ Dragon Dance ~ Earthquake ~ Stone Edge ~ Superpower / Protect After one Dragon Dance, this Larvitar is able to reach 36 Attack and 21 Speed and is ready to wreak havoc onto opposing teams with dual-STAB on Earthquake and Stone Edge. Superpower is a great option for hitting Bronzor, who is the main adversary of this set, dealing an estimate of 76% damage after a Dragon Dance. In its place, Protect can be used to safely activate Guts if you do not have the time to use Dragon Dance to further boost your power. Toxic Orb is the recommended item as it deals less damage to Larvitar in the first few turns of the battle than a Flame Orb induced burn. Rhyhorn @ Life Orb / Oran Berry Rock Head / Lightningrod 236 Atk / 236 Spe Adamant / Jolly ~ Rock Polish ~ Earthquake ~ Stone Edge ~ Megahorn / Fire Fang Abra @ Choice Specs Synchronize 240 SpA / 200 Spe Modest / Timid ~ Psychic ~ Hidden Power Fire ~ Signal Beam ~ Energy Ball Staryu @ Life Orb Natural Cure 200 SpA / 236 Spe Timid ~ Surf / Hydro Pump ~ Ice Beam ~ Thunderbolt ~ Hidden Power Grass Staryu is one of the best late-game cleaners, in part due to it reaching 19 speed and not being weak to any priority moves but also due to its fantastic type coverage these 4 attacks afford it. Surf will 2HKO or threaten to OHKO to anything that doesn't resist it and that does not have significant investment in special defense and is usually superior to Hydro Pump due to its better accuracy, although the raw power of the latter is not to be underestimated; Staryu deals at least 50% to Munchlax. Staryu, unlike most other Water-types, has the ability to make use of Electric- and Grass-type attacks on the same set; Thunderbolt will OHKO Mantyke whilst Chinchou takes in the region of 70% from Hidden Power Grass. Porygon @ Life Orb / Oran Berry Download 120 Def / 240 SpA / 80 SpD IVs: 30 Def / 30 SpA / 30 SpD / 2 Spe Quiet ~ Trick Room ~ Ice Beam ~ Thunderbolt ~ Hidden Power Fighting Gastly @ Life Orb / Leftovers / Wide Lens Levitate 116 HP / 196 SpA / 196 Spe Timid / Naive ~ Hypnosis ~ Shadow Ball ~ Thunderbolt / Hidden Power Fighting ~ Explosion / Substitute Buizel @ Life Orb Swift Swim 236 Atk / 36 SpD / 236 Spe Jolly ~ Bulk Up ~ Aqua Jet ~ Waterfall ~ Return Buizel can take advantage of the defensive prowess of the pure Water typing to squeeze in some Bulk Ups to aid a sweep. It can set up easily on physical Water-types as well as weak physical-based walls like Bronzor and then use Waterfall and Return to gain perfect coverage. Aqua Jet seals the deal in a way, making Buizel tough to stop with its speed stat of 19 and good defensive typing combining with STAB priority to limit the number of effective revenge killers. Elekid @ Life Orb / Petaya Berry Static 176 Atk / 80 SpA / 236 Spe IVs: 3 HP / 30 Atk / 30 SpA Mild / Hasty ~ Thunderbolt ~ Ice Punch ~ Cross Chop / Focus Punch ~ Hidden Power Grass / Substitute Magby @ Expert Belt / Shed Shell Flame Body 236 Atk / 252 Spe Hasty ~ Flare Blitz ~ Cross Chop ~ ThunderPunch ~ Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Ice / Overheat Magby can make good use of a physical-based set thanks to its ability to reach the 19 Speed tier and formidable Attack. Flare Blitz slams hard into anything that doesn't resist it and has the added bonus of OHKOing Bronzor, a prominent wall. Cross Chop dismantles any Munchlax silly enough to flaunt Thick Fat and has a chance to OHKO offensive Rhyhorn as well as any Rock-types less defensive than it. ThunderPunch will keep the Water-types at bay. In the last slot, Hidden Power Grass is usually the best option to ensure an OHKO on defensive Rhyhorn, Onix and other Rock/Ground types in addition to deterring Chinchou whereas Hidden Power Ice is a clean OHKO on Gligar. Overheat is alternative attack against Fire weak Pokemon which deals huge damage without the recoil damage of Flare Blitz. Expert Belt is chosen over Life Orb due to the propensity for Flare Blitz recoil to combine with a Stealth Rock weakness to result in residual damage building up quickly. Shed Shell can be used to punish teams reliant on stopping it with Diglett. Revenge Killers Mankey @ Choice Scarf Vital Spirit 36 HP / 200 Atk / 240 Spe Jolly ~ Close Combat ~ Ice Punch ~ Punishment ~ U-turn Psyduck @ Choice Scarf Cloud Nine 24 Atk / 240 SpA / 236 Spe Naive ~ Surf ~ Ice Beam ~ Hidden Power Grass ~ Cross Chop Carvanha @ Choice Scarf Rough Skin 36 Atk / 236 SpA / 236 Spe Naive / Rash ~ Aqua Jet ~ Surf ~ Ice Beam ~ Crunch Diglett @ Choice Scarf / Life Orb / Focus Sash Arena Trap 36 HP / 236 Atk / 236 Spe Lonely / Hasty ~ Earthquake ~ Sucker Punch ~ Hidden Power Ice ~ Pursuit / Shadow Claw / Aerial Ace Cranidos @ Choice Scarf Mold Breaker 236 Atk / 36 SpA / 212 Spe Naughty ~ Stone Edge / Head Smash ~ Earthquake ~ Ice Beam ~ Superpower / Pursuit / Zen Headbutt Useful Leads Meowth @ Focus Sash / Life Orb Technician 236 Atk / 76 Def / 196 Spe IVs: 0 HP Jolly ~ Hypnosis ~ Fake Out ~ U-turn ~ Bite / Return Meowth functions as a useful lead as well as a potent revenge killer later on in the match. Technician boosts Fake Out to 60 base power, which combined with STAB and Life Orb will put a sizeable dent into any opposing lead that doesn't resist Normal. Should the opponent be wary of this tactic and switch in a suitable Pokemon to sponge the Fake Out, Meowth can then proceed to Hypnosis the next switch in and U-turn out, without having taken damage from the opponent. Bite is Technician boosted and hits Ghost-types whilst Return is the most reliable damage-inflicting attack that Meowth possesses. Meowth's high speed is what makes it able to make full use of this set, reaching 19 speed which only Elekid, Diglett and Voltorb can beat without a speed boost. Note: The 0 HP IV reduces Meowth's HP stat to 19 and so reduces Life Orb recoil. Chimchar @ Focus Sash Blaze 84 HP / 4 Def / 212 SpA / 4 SpD / 188 Spe Timid ~ Flamethrower ~ U-turn ~ Taunt / Fake Out / Protect ~ Stealth Rock Chimchar is one of the better options for stopping set up leads. Immediately, that STAB Flamethrower frightens Bronzor and Gligar. Taunt can be used to stop Stealth Rock leads and Baton Passers, although Fake Out can be used in conjuction in U-turn in a similar way that Meowth does but Chimchar is inferior in that respect as Meowth has 19 speed stat compared to Chimchar's 16 and Meowth's Fake Out base power is over twice as high as Chimchar's. Chimchar can use Protect in the same slot to help scout the opponent's next move and safeguard itself from Meowth and other Fake Out users. Chimchar does have some advantages over similar leads, primarily its ability to set up Stealth Rock but also its oft-overlooked Blaze trait which works well with Focus Sash. For example, Chimchar can survive a Diglett Earthquake with Focus Sash and then OHKO back with a Blaze-boosted Flamethrower. Ponyta @ Wide Lens Flash Fire 236 Atk / 76 Def / 196 Spe Jolly ~ Hypnosis ~ Will-o-Wisp ~ Flare Blitz ~ Return Drifloon @ Wide Lens / Petaya Berry Unburden 196 HP / 4 Def / 36 SpA / 4 SpD / 196 Spe Timid ~ Hypnosis ~ Substitute ~ Baton Pass ~ Shadow Ball Offensive Threat List Code:
Staryu Water 45 Atk / 70 SpA / 85 Spe Fast and hits with good type coverage. A Life Orbed Surf will OHKO or 2HKO most Pokemon that it hits neutral with Stealth Rock down, and Thunderbolt and Ice Beam hits the majority of pokemon that Surf cannot. Dratini Dragon 64 Atk / 50 SpA / 50 Spe Can boost its mediocre speed with Dragon Dance and gets Outrage, which is resisted by very few , to take advantage of its heightened attack. Draco Meteor is another powerful STAB move that it gains, along with Fire Blast which can combine with a STAB move to make a combination that hits every Little Cup pokemon at least neutral. Elekid Electric 63 Atk / 65 SpA / 95 Spe It has access to a diverse movepool, including Thunderbolt, ThunderPunch, Ice Punch, Psychic Cross Chop and Fire Punch which when coupled with its high speed, enables it to use a Mixed Set effectively. Gligar Ground/Flying 75 Atk / 35 SpA / 85 Spe With its high defences, Gligar is often able to find time to boost its already credible attack with Swords Dance and it can then sweep using a combination of Earthquake and Stone Edge and has the option of Baton Passing its Attack boosts to an ally as well as being able to Baton Pass Agility boosts. Abra Psychic 20 Atk / 105 SpA / 90 Spe A Choice Specs Psychic will OHKO most pokemon in Little Cup, and the threat it poses is enhanced by his high speed which ties with the likes of Elekid, Magby, Misdreavus and Staryu amongst others. Gastly Ghost/Poison 35 Atk / 100 SpA / 80 Spe Shadow Ball, Thunderbolt and Hidden Power [Fighting] provides excellent coverage off its high Special Attack and Speed. Life Orb or Choice Specs enable it to OHKO or 2HKO most pokemon with Shadow Ball, and can also use Hypnosis, Will-o-Wisp and Explosion to beat some of its counters. Cranidos Rock 125 Atk / 30 SpA / 58 Spe It is able to fire STAB Stone Edges and Head Smashes off the same base Attack as Heracross. Mold Breaker means Gastly and Bronzor do not enjoy immunity to Earthquake and it can remedy its modest speed with Choice Scarf or Rock Polish. Misdreavus Ghost 60 Atk / 85 SpA / 85 Spe Three immunities allow it switch in repeatedly, coupled with good Speed and Special Attack. Notable moves include Calm Mind, Shadow Ball, Thunderbolt, Will-o-Wisp and Taunt. Magby Fire 75 Atk / 70 SpA / 83 Spe Similar to Elekid, in regards to his high Attack, Special Attack and Speed. Also akin to Elekid, this is combined with a great movepool, which notably includes Fire Punch, Flare Blitz and Flamethrower as STAB moves as well as Focus Punch, Psychic, Cross Chop and ThunderPunch. Teddiursa Normal 80 Atk / 50 SpA / 40 Spe Once inflicted with status, via a Toxic Orb often, Teddiursa outspeeds all non-scarf pokemon with the exception of the banned Sneasel and Scyther. At this point, it can attempt to sweep with a combination of a STAB 140 power Facade, Close Combat and Crunch, a combination that no pokemon in Little Cup resists. Houndour Dark/Fire 60 Atk / 80 SpA / 65 Spe With respectable, if not spectacular, Special Attack and Speed, Houndour can make good use of Nasty Plot to power up its STAB Flamethower or Fire Blast and Dark Pulse which few pokemon resist in tandem. It also can use STAB Pursuit on the physical side, to punish fleeing victims, making a Choice Scarf set very useful. Flash Fire is another thing to take into consideration. Kabuto Rock/Water 80 Atk / 55 SpA / 55 Spe Swift Swim allows it outrun most of the metagame, provided with some Speed EVs, in the rain. It can then sweep with its almost unresisted dual STAB. Has access to a priority move in the form of Aqua Jet to outspeed other priority users. Rhyhorn Ground/Rock 85 Atk / 30 SpA / 25 Spe Gains STAB on two high powered moves in Stone Edge and Earthquake which provide good coverage in Little Cup and run off its high Attack. Megahorn and Fire Fang can be used to supplement its STAB moves. A common strategy is to use Rock Polish on it, which doubles its poor speed after one use, and makes Rhyhorn into a deadly sweeper. Mankey Fighting 80 Atk / 35 SpA / 70 Spe It has access to Close Combat, Elemental punches (illegal with the aforementioned Close Combat) and a wide array of physical moves running off its high Attack as well as access to U-Turn to scout switches. Often seen making use of Choice Scarf. It can also gain immunity to Sleep thanks to Vital Spirit. Carvanha Water/Dark 90 Atk / 65 SpA / 65 Spe Can attack with a combination of STAB moves which are resisted by few together with the option of Physical moves such as Crunch, Waterfall, Aqua Jet and Ice Fang which run off its great Attack or Special moves such as Surf, Ice Beam and Dark Pulse which run off its lower but still respectable Special Attack. Often uses Choice Scarf to boost its slightly lacking Speed. Munchlax Normal 85 Atk / 40 SpA / 5 Spe A STAB Return from his large attack threatens to OHKO or 2HKO most pokemon that it hits for neutral. For those who resist Return, Munchlax gets access to Earthquake, Pursuit, Focus Punch, Zen Headbutt as well as Fire Blast to hit Bronzor for SE damage. Especially dangerous under Trick Room conditions. Diglett Ground 55 Atk / 35 SpA / 95 Spe Not a direct threat a such, but a good battler will be wary of its ability to trap pokemon at will and pick them off. Choice Scarf allows it to outspeed almost everything whilst Earthquake, Sucker Punch, Rock Slide, Pursuit and Aerial Ace are common moves can be boosted by Choice Band and Life Orb, making use of its high speed. Even an unboosted Earthquake will do over 50% to most pokemon. Omanyte Rock/Water 40 Atk / 90 SpA / 35 Spe Swift Swim and a high Special Attack makes Omanyte a potent threat in the rain. With Life Orb, anything that doesn't resist Water is OHKOed by Surf, bar Munchlax who is 2HKOed, in conjunction in Surf, a STABbed AncientPower and also Ice Beam can be used for good coverage. Gible Dragon/Ground 70 Atk / 40 SpA / 42 Spe Poses a threat due STAB on Earthquake and Outrage coming off its relatively high attack, and when equipped in a Choice Band, these moves will OHKO the vast majority that do not resist it. It is only held back by its poor speed, which can be cured to an extent by a Choice Scarf. A STAB Draco Meteor can also threaten opponents. Porygon Normal 60 Atk / 85 SpA / 40 Spe Its already high Special Attack can be boosted spontaneously by Download and whilst it lacks a reliable STAB Special Move, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Shadow Ball and Hidden Power [Fighting] provides more than enough coverage between them. It can also threaten on the physical side, with STAB Return, should Download boost its Attack. Often carries Trick Room, to reverse the detrimental effect of its low Speed. Croagunk Poison/Fighting 61 Atk / 61 SpA / 50 Spe The main danger it poses is through a combination of Nasty Plot and STAB Vacuum Wave complemented by STAB Sludge Bomb and often Dark Pulse. However, with respectable attacking stats on both side of the spectrum and with Cross Chop, a choice of physical priority moves in addition to X-Scissor and Rock Slide, Croagunk can also pose a significant threat on the physical side. Item Analysis Common Strategies ================================================== ============= Update 30 Aug: Longer sections in CODE tag to cure the tl;dr-itis. This is temporary. Also started to add to standards section Update 10 Oct: Added more to standards section, added the stat boosting pokemon Update 12 Oct: Added new section to standards: Sweepers. Added to other sections of standards too. Update 15 Oct: Pokemon sets - complete! Just need to add commentary to all the pokemon. Update 18 Oct: Eric's EV guide updates added and some commentary added on sets. Update 24 Oct: Commentary complete for all of the listed walls. Update 5 Feb: Begun to make adaptations due to Murkrow's banning. Update 25 March: All Murkrow references removed Update 27 March: Legality section updated thanks to Dragonite24
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You Go? Last edited by sbc; Mar 27th, 2009 at 3:25:13 PM. |
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#2 |
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dreams of ladybugs crushed forever
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,366
five years here and i can't change my custom title :(
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I'll finish the Defensive Threats guide so you can use it.
Don't forget that any base stat ending in 4 can go up 4 points, I think. Anyways, this is an awesome start.
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i was nobody we're all a little bit strange, don't worry about it |
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#3 | |
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Join Date: May 2008
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OXYGEN
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Why do you have Pursuit listed under Diglett when it has Arena Trap?
I wasn't aware that Shed Shell was even used in this meta. Quote:
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Battle Hall: Garchomp (49), Leafeon (37) FC: 2750 8747 1987
White FC: 1420 6672 5883 Last edited by Arcaseven; Aug 27th, 2008 at 6:17:02 AM. |
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#4 |
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Join Date: Sep 2007
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Good for trapping Gastly, Misdreavus, Duskull and the like.
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not a counter |
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#5 |
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Join Date: May 2006
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Duskull doesn't have Arena Trap so...
Is your Offensive Threat List finished, or will you still add in some? I can think of a few who are not inside, but really deadly.
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<+Raikage> 'what the hell is a recoome' <+Raikage> 'and a burter' |
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#6 |
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maybe I just misunderstood
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Join Date: Aug 2007
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No it is not finished yet, Here is the topic if you want to help.
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#7 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
I've decided against a DTL since I don't want to overload the reader with "watch out for this" stuff, I'll mention them in the standards though.
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You Go? Last edited by sbc; Aug 30th, 2008 at 12:59:32 PM. |
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#8 |
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maybe I just misunderstood
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The EV guide needs a couple of fixes, but I will post that on LCF.
Do you think it would be possible to give a link to the Completed Analysis subforum on LCF? I am not sure if Smogon would be comfortable with it but it does have a lot of useful info for LC players. Otherwise looking great DN.
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#9 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
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I am still working on this, but I have a lot of school-related stuff to do and it doesn't help getting 2 hours of maths homework a night.
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#10 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
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OK, this has been updated, I have lengthened the sample pokemon section and I am looking for advice on how to sort and organise the common movesets of pokemon. At the moment I am thinking: Walls, Stat-Boosters, Sweepers and Support pokemon. Although the middle two may be combined.
This is not too far from completion, just: ~ Finishing the common pokemon sets+ adding commentary ~ Speed Tiers (already written on LCF) ~ Item Analysis (already written) ~ Common Strategies (which I plan to be a short summary of themed teams with maybe some general tips) Help as always is appreciated.
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#11 |
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qibz official stalker
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good question
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Agility + Baton Pass Gligar is listed twice under "stat boosters" (#3 & #5).
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#12 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,061
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thanks - I need to be more careful with my ctrl v
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just came to say hello
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Quote:
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Last edited by jumpluff; Oct 16th, 2008 at 7:05:38 AM. |
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maybe I just misunderstood
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It is more of a collection of all the most important articles written on the LCF than a single one.
The Move Legality guide (There is a newer version, it is a LOT longer and much more comprehensive), Speed Tiers, EV distribution Guide (Which is actually outdated here, I rewrote it due to some errors.), were written as separate articles. Also I need to go over the Speed Tiers and remove the ones that don't see much/any play. I wrote it before people started playing so its quite inaccurate. Maybe EvilBob's LC Stat program could get a mention? hmm.. I really think this needs to be split up into its separate parts, if Smogon is ok with having multiple guides.
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#15 | ||
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Quote:
It is long, yes, but I suspect that the 40-odd pokemon sets makes it seem longer than it perhaps is. I could drastically cut the size of the EVing guide and just perhaps make a list of the base stat last number and the number of EVs needed to max it. I will have to see what is said about splitting the guides up, and it's a bit of a dilemma, I think it is worth keeping all the team-building related stuff in one place, but perhaps the pokemon sets are too big to have in one place. As I said, I have to think stuff through and talk to the site staff about whether it would be allowed. Thanks again. Just a thought, perhaps 3 sections: Rules (everything up to and including move legality), Team Building (EV Guide, Threat List, Pokemon sets) and Strategy and Guides (speed tiers, item analysis and strategies) I think the lengths are decent, although the team building section may be longer (although expected). Quote:
Yeah, I'm thinking of speed tiers being quite concise. At the moment I'm trying to complete the framework of the guides and then trying to fix it up. I will probably end up rewriting some of the guides partly myself too. If you have posted the updates on LCF, I'll have a look. I aim to have this done and dusted within 3 weeks if I don't have a gay amount of work.
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:D
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Dixie, if you don't mind, I'd like to do the Item and Metagame analysis sections of this guide. I've already been working on both of them for a while, and if you want, I'll post what I've got. I just want to make sure we're not working on the same parts of the guide. If you can, hit me up on the Smogon server for more details.
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#17 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
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OK that's fine with me. Although I may add / edit parts of it for whatever reason. I'll credit you of course.
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#18 |
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maybe I just misunderstood
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Dixie, I really think that this should be done in separate sections, not the 3 you proposed but each guide as it is posted on the LCF for easy reading. So EV spreads, Move Legality, Speed Tiers, threat lists and all the others would get their own guides, OU can't be incorporated into a single guide so why should LC?
The general LC guide would include links to most or all of the individual guides, and a overview of the metagames differences from OU and others. I would like to discuss this with you when there is a chance.
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#19 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
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IMO 3-4 sections is enough, having 7/8 different guides isn't going to be convenient for anyone who wants to quickly get into LC and I don't think stuff like the Item Analysis section would be long enough to warrant a new page.
Like I said I need to contact site staff.
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#20 |
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maybe I just misunderstood
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But surely it would be more easy to access if you did not have to scroll past all the stuff you are not trying to get to..
I think Ubers is the example we should follow, they have one page for general stuff like team making and how the metagame plays out (http://www.smogon.com/dp/articles/uber_battling) and another for Speed Tiers. Now Little Cup is more complicated we have quite interesing illegal moves and EV spreads work totally differently. There are two ways I see to go about this: 1. Cram everything into one guide, them split it into sections. This seems to be the way you are doing it. Basicly you merge the 3 main guides (Speed Tiers, Move Legality, EV spreads) into one and abreviate tham all then cut it up again because its just to big. 2. Put up the 3 main guides indervidually then write up another one which would have an overview of LC, it would include Eligible Pokemon, Rules, and introduction to LC, how Items work differently in LC some example sets I see no reason not to put at least some of the most important guides on their own page if we can get them that way. And its not like there would be "7/8 different guides", just 4. Edit: After talking for a while in the main chat and him agreeing that the Move Legality guide should be separate: Code:
eric the espeon: So Dixie do you agree with the other 2 main guides getting their own page? (Speed tiers and EV spreads) I need to know for the plan for LC which I will be working on, as well as what to tell people. eric the espeon: If yes you would still b working on the main general guide, but you would not need to chop it up or add in those specific parts, and I would be able to prepare for submitting the EV guide. Dixie Normas: speed tiers doesn't really need one Dixie Normas: ev spreads doesn't really tbh eric the espeon: Ubers has one separately Dixie Normas: meh eric the espeon: And EVs is pretty big and may not be of interest to those who just want an overview of LC eric the espeon: Also if those 3 bits are taken out you will not need to cut the general guide up Dixie Normas: EV guide is in teambuilding eric the espeon: it will not be too big to fit in one eric the espeon: How? Dixie Normas: it would still be too big eric the espeon: Teambuilding is something else eric the espeon: KD is working on it eric the espeon: I don't think so, sure it would have a few big lists and a heap of sets (most of the sets can go once the analysis are up) Dixie Normas: no theres a teambuilding section eric the espeon: But it would be manageable because there would not be to many parts eric the espeon: If you take out the big 3 you can fit everything into one so there is no need for a team building section Dixie Normas: I dunno tvh Dixie Normas: let me finish most of it and then worry about it eric the espeon: please dont.. eric the espeon: that makes it much more complex.. Dixie Normas: not really eric the espeon: Yes. eric the espeon: It means I have to wait and not get the EV guide up soon eric the espeon: And it means a rewrite (not massive) if you change your mind Dixie Normas: ill have a think anyway Dixie Normas: gtg eric the espeon: fine Dixie Normas: bye eric the espeon: bye
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For people who like storing things: The Box Reading and LC? LCF, LC Guide, LC Analyses Good channels: #littlecup, #C&C, #1v1, others And for SCMS editors: SCMS group Last edited by eric the espeon; Oct 18th, 2008 at 1:28:53 PM. |
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#21 |
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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in a couple of places you have it stated that mankey cannot learn ice punch and close combat
but then you have it under the commonly used sets so you might want to fix that (i know it can learn it now due to platinum) |
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#22 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,061
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Thanks, I'm aware of that - the examples given in the move legality guide are slightly outdated. I think there is a newer version of it however.
OK, I'm planning a significant overall to the structure of this: a) Move Legality will be much shorter. Swinub_Toupee (not sure of his Smogon name) has written a comprehensive article on the legality issues and has even identified ALL the illegal combinations for LC pokemon. Eric will/has asked him to post it in C&C and hopefully it can be uploaded onto the site and linked to from this article instead. b) EV distribution will be much shorter c) Speed Tiers will have its own article. Eric has written the speed tiers and once he reformats it he will post it on C&C and then perhaps hosted on the site and then linked from this article.
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You Go? Last edited by sbc; Oct 19th, 2008 at 10:06:50 AM. |
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#23 |
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dreams of ladybugs crushed forever
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,366
five years here and i can't change my custom title :(
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EV Distirbution is simply this:
1. List the 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 points 2. 4 evs = 1 IV that's it. speed tiers takes up not really all that much room, but if it works in another article then sure. I can start some short descriptions of the threats. Are we working under the assumption that Murkrow will be voted Uber on Little Cup Forums? Abra does not tie Elekid in Speed. Most Misdreavus don't use Life Orb and run CM / SB / HP Fighting / Destiny Bond or Sub @ Oran/Salac
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i was nobody we're all a little bit strange, don't worry about it Last edited by cim; Oct 23rd, 2008 at 4:28:02 AM. |
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#24 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,061
London
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Yeah I plan to do that for EV distribution and Eric made a forumla iirc.
I'm working under the assumption that Murkrow is not uber, it would be easier to change it if it does become so than assuming it uber and then having add stuff. Re Abra and Elekid: noted. Will update the OTL assuming that's where you saw it later when I complete the set comments. Misdreavus is a bit tricky in trying to show its options in one set because you can have a semi-bulky Missy with Oran and Destiny Bond, an all out Calm Minder with life orb or a sub-CM with random boost berry at the end. All of the sets look similar so 2 separate sets would look dumb but all play rather differently. I've done my best to avoid slash-itis particularly on items although I may look at changing leftovers for Oran in that case. thanks for the feedback
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maybe I just misunderstood
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,693
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Just so you know after further testing I found that my original formula was wrong and fixed it in the guide.
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