The Philosophy of Smogon

[Carl]

Yes it is intimidating with all the infractions and mods always on your back to a certain extent but that also plays its role in keeping the casual battler that doesn't really want to learn out. If you're really interested in learning how to play this game competitively and play it well you'll stick it out despite how intimidating it might seem. I did back in the day and so do anyone else here. You'll find this attitude on many of the forums that strive to be the best at whatever the specialize in though because that's just the way the internet works. Smogon is not unique in the way it handles things, just unique in the way it handles things in the pokemon community.

[Sleep]

This thread should be read by anyone new to Smogon... it's a shame to see new users get offended by the staff or regulars and leave, when they could be improving themselves instead.

[Taylor]

I enjoyed the read. Forgot what i really wanted to say too.

[matg1002]

Originally Posted by Fat Misty

It should be noted, however, that the player who uses a lesser Pokemon and still attains victory consistently is rewarded with the utmost respect - so a player who values his or her "favorites" should consider investing the knowledge of Smogon into the lesser Pokemon.

I know what you meant here because I agree. I think it was kinda worded awkwardly tho. Under this wording, using whiscash with a moveset/ev spread identical to standard swampert and still winning is worthy of praise. To me it's a self-induced disadvantage not really worthy of note.

What I think you meant was that if you use your favorite in a unique way suitable to its characterists, that works well with your team, that's effective in the metagame (what most new people have trouble differentiating between), and that leads you to a victory, then that's worthy of praise. I'd completely agree with this meaning - it's what competitive battling is all about IMO. If everyone else read it like that and I'm alone on this misunderstanding, please completely ignore this.

Originally Posted by Fat Misty

It should be remembered that there have been some major changes from each generation to the next - GS adding new types and changing Hyper Beam; RS's EV system; and while the RS->DP changes seem to be less revolutionary, new, unthought-of standards like Choice Specs Salamence and Choice Scarf Outrage Garchomp are major players that change the shape of the metagame, making certain Pokemon and strategies less desirable while making others more effective.

I would argue that the major change between 3rd gen and 4th gen is making each attack either physical or special and no longer being reliant on the type of the move, which makes types less predictable - you can now have a physical dark type with STAB.


Overall, I agree with this philosophy. Some people love to use their favorite guys and duke it out. Nothing wrong with that. Other people love to abuse things and want to play with no sleep clause and an endure/spore/salac smeargle. Whatever. The people on this board like to treat pokemon like a pure strategy game, albeit with a lot more personality and customizability (is that a word?) than chess. In the end, it just comes down to your preference.

[Tinnacious]

Linx to topic

this is the anti-smogon-alliance, or ASA for short. I've always hated them, telling us what to do, telling us the ONLY sets and spreads. Telling us which pokemon can be used and which can't. There is no reason not to see a BL in a competitive battle, besides that smogon tells us so. They started as an organization to help others, but as they age they have grown arrogant and obsessed with their own authority. My dislike further intensified today, as they put the great SUICUNE IN BL TIER. This is blatantly stupid, suicune will wreck it like it isn't there, how dare they insult my fav. trio member. Even worse, their madness drove a great battler, starking, who was one the few that shared my passion for the uber tier, to quitting competitive battling out of disgust for how dog-eat-dog it got. So I'm sick of it, and I'm making an alliance to create OUR OWN movesets and OUR OWN ev spreads and we can fight with argument on what should be uber and what should be OU, instead of going blindly like sheep in a herd. It will be a long, hard road to ever rivaling smogon, so don't sign up if your not in it for the long haul. I won't lie to you, I'm not and incredible battler like hasire (although I'm not bad at all) nor am I a genius MS maker like Fantasty, but I do know that I can't do this alone. I'm going to need all the help I can get. So if your just in for ur own benefit or some minor support, welcome. But I will need some serious help.

People I'll Really need:

a good website maker. essential, as I'm clueless there.
someone willing to right down many warstories, I'm too impatient, but this shouldn't be hard to find.
People to make EV spreads and MS: PLEASE COME IN DROVES!!!
tier testers: I'll need an army, seriously, I'm talking about retesting many, many, pokemon. Luckily with shoddy this shouldn't be half as bad as it sounds.
A good vid maker for those stuck in DP/PBR only, although I'm primarily shoddy ATM.

If I could get some well reputed people to join, it would well help our growth, or if you have good relations with someone like that.

And to the smogonites: the ASA is purely a name to attract those who see you as the oppressors of Pokemon (albeit ur kind of becoming that way) I think that smogon as a whole is diseased, but I mean no emnity to the individual smogonites. I extend my hand in friendship to them in hopes that they will realize that in pokemon, something is wrong, there is one voice telling the masses what to do, unchecked and unchallenged. I do not stand to stand against you, only to stand for those without a voice in the Dog-eat-dog world that pokemon has sadly become.
---
PBR FC: 3050-4662-0721

[Misty**]

I don't think any sort of appeal to common sense (this document) works in that instance.

[chaos**]

Balb brought that up in #smogon today. I responded to the topic and as of now, nobody has posted anything anti-Smogon after my post.

Some of it is so misguided that it's hard to believe. Granted, these people wouldn't really get along here on the forums, but that's a personal problem and not our fault.

*smogon:guys i just heard people are using togekiss alot wat should we do*staff: we should(thinking)ban it yea:)*smogon:grrrrrreat lets get on it*kids in the park playing pokemon*i choose u lugia*smogon:hey that pokemon is banned give me that DS (steps on it)*kid1* hey wat was that for*kid2:we were in the middle of a battle.smogon:so that pokemon u just sent out was an uber*kid1:wat the heck is a uber.*smogon:an uber is a pokemon that has to much stats.*kid1:it was only on lvl50.*smogon:well you see? (runs off back to office)*kid2:that guy was a retard.*kid1:yea

what? lol

[monkfish]

Great article Misty, not many points to bring up (Those that I had noticed were mentioned by earlier posters). I hope this is put somewhere noticeable on the main site to prevent misinformed ranters like the gamefag shown above.

[Rianne]

Awesome article! It definitely sums up what Smogon is about, I think. As a fairly new member I've actually found everyone to be very welcoming and willing to answer questions- not 'elitist' or 'arrogant' at all. I've also learned a lot by being willing to acknowledge that I don't know everything... go figure.

[Fire Electric Cat-Gonk]

I find it funny that a Gamefag is complaining about Ubers being banned under standard rules, when, if I recall correctly, Evade Clause came from GameFAQs.

[Alysanne]

I want to know where that guy is getting the idea that people can't make their own movesets or EV spreads already. And nothing is stopping people from using BL pokemon in OU.

Besides, if he's an Ubers player, he shouldn't even give a shit about what is listed under what tier. I didn't even know there was a tier list already.

[Whitesky12480]

Good article Misty! I've also read the Gamefaqs article and well...Whiskey Tango Foxtrot O_o!

When I first joined, I came in with a similar additude about me having some fair ideas that I didn't see being considered and made the mistake of posting something that I should of known wouldn't work. I actually thank that for getting me to take what is said about battling competively seriously.

Because of me taking it seriously, I've started to analyze my team with the help of recording through my webcam and than watching the battle again to find mistakes or pokemon that underperform. I've also taken to breeding for IVs (Got a good result on my Milotic but not so great on my Gabite). I only do this with Wifi battles by the way.

I do have a friend who thinks I am twinking (D&D term) because of my IV breeding and that I am not all the fun to battle. She though admitted to using a Pidgeot with Fly & Hyper Beam. I doubt anything short of getting beaten into the ground will wake her up (Marines are stubborn).

I do though have another friend who is open to learning new things as she recently had a Wifi battle between her Empoleon and a Sandslash. I berated her when she told me she used Aqua Jet (erasing Bubblebeam) and explained to her why with the help of Bulbapedia. Aqua Jet was a bigger mistake to put on Empoleon than keeping Bubblebeam. This was confirmed when I saw how high the Special Attack stat was on her Empoleon during a trade and told her she needed to do that.
I do also need to teach her how to IV breed cause she gave me a Charmander Egg for my Diamond along with another two Eevee's (already hatched) but the Charmander didn't have great IVs.

She is also still using Bibarel and Luxray and used Ditto against me in a battle. But, she is willing to learn to battle competively so I should be able to get her to come to this place to learn from what I consider is the best.

Because of Smogon, I am looking and always analyzing my pokes' for weaknesses and strengths (though I am still VERY unwilling to part with my Torterra).

Keep up the good work!

[Jackal]

Great thread, I had to find this out the hard way back on tvsian, but once you see what this community can offer and how awesome the people are, you really cant leave. I joined up as a confused 12 year old, and even though I feel too old for this game quite often (even though i'm only 16 lol, I can imagine people like hip and chaos!) i cant help but coming back. The allure of competitive battling is just too great. To new people though don't be intimidated if you want to be a part of what this place is about and lurk enough, you will get it and fit right in.

On that note though, I think it might be optimal to write something like this about this sites sense of humour too, as dumb as that sounds. I think Steelicks is hilarious now, but really when you are a new member as I was at tvsian and you see the moderator of a forum create a topic called "To the Combate xD" it kind of gives the wrong impression if you dont quite understand the history behind any of it. I know I was really confused by the humour at first, as pretty much every user had something along the lines of "D-man is a carpet muncher" in their sig.

There are two sides to this community, the competitive pokemon, which new users with intelligent things to say are coming at an alarming rate...reading people like CT20's and phuquophs posts, I am astonished at how fast they picked up on how the community operates. But it is sad that I never see either of these two users in firebot, as im sure they have a great sense of humour...they might just be confused about the whole thing. When cloud makes a topic about arcanine, and then locks everyone else who makes a topic about arcanine after him, its intimidating. New users want to impress the admins by being like them, and this is the one site where the admins dont want that. For this reason its no surprise we hardly see new funny users, save foreys and kelloggsequent, but compared to the amount of new intelligent DP people its miniscule.

So although this article does a great job at showing people what smogon is about, it doesnt capture ALL of it. There is a reason Doommullet and Bonnet are here, who dont even know what a pokemon is. This community has a great humour side, and this would be a perfect way to make all the "Stark Mountain Only" users see smogon at its fullest...a combination of competitive pokemon and good times with efriends.

wow holy fuck this got tl;dr please someone say they read that :P

[Whitesky12480]

Hey, If you wanna talk old Jackal; I'm 26 years old and still playing Pokemon! :P

I read that and I think this place has a great sense of humor.

[chaos**]

I'm only 19! I'm one of the youngest out of the mods.

[Mexi-Kade]

I always assumed the philosophy of Smogon was:
Peace is a lie; there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
Smogonness shall free me.

[StrangerDanger]

Originally Posted by Fat Kade Zonglo

I always assumed the philosophy of Smogon was:
Peace is a lie; there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
Smogonness shall free me.

I think that's only Hazerider.

[Vyacheslav]

I've only encountered a few problems with Smogon over my entire time here. One was during the last Grand Tour..My opponent never responded to my PMs, I reported this about five times in the thread, PMed Aeroblactyl (I believe he was hosting it, I forget..), and I was attentive at all times. Despite me always being ready, because I was really a no-name competitor my battle didn't get the 'he didn't show up, you get to go on' treatment, we got it to go to a coinflip and I lost. I was quite peeved.

The only other problem with smogon I find is that it is losing its culture nowadays. It seems to be absorbing /b/, LUE, GOON culture more and more. Smogon was always like NPO (if any of you know that) to me..very professional.

[Synre]

Believe me, we have no intention of turning into 4chan or LUE or any other forum that does such a good job of bastardizing the internet

[Ancien Régime]

The thing I've always admired about Smogon is the whole "zero tolerance for idiocy" thing, and that is all well and good.

But people get the wrong idea because sometimes its interpreted as being "hard-assed" or "smacking people down just because they feel like it" i.e "elitism".

I've always believed that if someone is wrong, then one should explain WHY someone is wrong, even though it may seem like common sense of the highest order.

Also, it IS intimidating that the more known people seem so inaccessible - nearly all the forums I've been on I've been able to get to know everyone in it fairly quickly; granted, none of them were as big as this one.

[Mexi-Kade]

I'm not ashamed to say Smogon intimidates me just a little. There have been times where I've wanted to post my thoughts on something or perhaps give a new take to old standards when halfway through I'll just give up, telling myself that it was either pointless or so painfully obvious no one ever mentions it.

[Ishi-Goturi]

Originally Posted by Fat Kade Zonglo

I always assumed the philosophy of Smogon was:
Peace is a lie; there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
Smogonness shall free me.

So does this make chaos like Darth Malak?

Yeah, I like this thread. I might start quoting it the next time kids start berating competitive play on other forums I frequent. It really frustrates me that some players won't give this side of the game a chance because they want to be unique or get attention or whatever. They just don't understand that the method of playing Pokemon this forum advocates is really based on not much more that common sense, fun, and elements Game Freak put into the game anyway.

I used Smogon when I entered JAA last year, and I've learned a lot more since then mainly by lurking. This place is an invaluable resource for anyone who wants to learn the nuances of competitive Pokemon, because it really would take years before anyone could figure out all this on his own. The title of "Smogon University" really fit this place well.

[chaos**]

Originally Posted by Fat mikhail bakunin

The only other problem with smogon I find is that it is losing its culture nowadays. It seems to be absorbing /b/, LUE, GOON culture more and more. Smogon was always like NPO (if any of you know that) to me..very professional.

I want to punch something. We try out hardest to keep other cultures out of Smogon; but new people who come in don't lurk and post their retarded cats pictures, etc.

[Trax]

Originally Posted by Fat chaos

No way, we aren't trying to be intimidating at all. We just don't want people to get away with not reading the rules. If you adhere to the rules, you shouldn't get into any trouble.

This would, in my opinion work better if the rules for certain forums (*cough*firebot*cough*) were a fraction less subjective (and thus ambiguous for new posters), yes, I'm talking about rule 5. Things that are not clear tend to intimidate people.

The only thing I didn't really like about smogon was the "unspoken clauses" to do with skarmbliss etc, using skarmbliss in GSC was about the easiest way to find yourself getting bitched at by pretty much anyone from old regs to newbies. Doesn't really matter so much now because GSC is practically dead, but it was annoying at the time.

[blackshellbowser]

Originally Posted by Fat Kade Zonglo

I'm not ashamed to say Smogon intimidates me just a little. There have been times where I've wanted to post my thoughts on something or perhaps give a new take to old standards when halfway through I'll just give up, telling myself that it was either pointless or so painfully obvious no one ever mentions it.

I feel that way too. Not that it's a bad thing though. It's just a different feel to it, as some forums have the dumbest topics posted every few minutes. I like how while people like Steelicks keep this forum light-hearted, our Mods ensure that this is a place to learn and improve our skills in Pokemon and not a place to post some retarded joke or advertise a lame site.

I'll be honest and say that I felt a slight bit of "eliteness" coming from Smogon when I first looked into it, but on the first day of posting and lurking, I was glad I was wrong. You guys are here to help, not brag which truly makes me feel welcomed at Smogon.

While this isn't a contribution or anything, I am glad to say that I spread whatever knowledge I gain from this site. Many of my Pokemon-loving friends don't even know what an IV or EV is!

I also set some people straight. I meet many cocky people who claim they are the best, but don't know a DV from an EV and only win b/c they versus little kids. For example, one of my co-workers claimed he was really good at the RBY Metagame. When I looked into it, he was lazy and just Rare Candied his Pokes and gave them some vitamins. I had fully raised my team and given them decent movesets. I ended up winning our little battle 4-0 and showing him just how much of an advantage it is to know how to play competively correctly!