DP Research Thread #3 ("Newer")

[Peterko]

did you read my post? why was I able to defense curl 6 times and amnesia 3 times? simple stat changes don´t cap at +/- 6?

the in-game description says something about "is prone to wild stat changes"


also tested METRONOME a bit, it was rather easy and fun with togepi

the moves in order of being metronomed:
kinesis, acupressure, bone club, crush claw, haze, double hit, perish song, last resort, mud bomb, attract, agility, withdraw, shadow ball, seed flare, flail, dragon rage, powder snow, take down, charge beam, head smash, sheer cold, gastro acid, avalanche, bubble, slack off, rock polish, ice ball, barrage, roost, rest, fury swipes, rage, ice punch, moonlight, ancientpower, embargo, needle arm, flare blitz, razor wind, lucky chant, gust, wake-up slap, roar, metal claw, astonish, transform, selfdestruct, aqua jet, silver wind, spark, trump card, seed bomb, rock blast, swagger, psychic, leaf storm, gyro ball, yawn, megahorn, submission, mega punch, dizzy punch, aqua ring, dragon rush, poison powder, blizzard, fly, icicle spear


I think we will be able to eliminate a lot of other similar (group) moves just from looking at the ones above...

I would need others to help me make groups of moves (does someone have a list of all moves? is the list in the competitor update topic relevant?) - maybe each researcher could find all moves for one or two groups from such a list and we will eliminate all the others from such a group according to what is metronomed?

stat ups -> accupressure, agility, withdraw, rock polish

healing moves -> slack off, roost, rest, moonlight, aqua ring,

1HKO moves -> sheer cold

2 turn moves -> razor wind, fly

fix base power -> dragon rage

status moves -> yawn, poison powder, attract,

other -> kinesis, haze, perish song, embargo, lucky chant, roar, transform, swagger, gastro acid,

damaging moves (can also be split into groups like multihit, variable move power etc.) -> bone club, crush claw, double hit, last resort, mud bomb, shadow ball, seed flare, flail, powder snow, take down, charge beam, head smash, avalanche, bubble, ice ball, barrage, fury swipes, rage, ice punch, ancientpower, needle arm, flare blitz, gust, wake-up slap, metal claw, astonish, selfdestruct, aqua jet, silver wind, spark, trump card, seed bomb, rock blast, psychic, leaf storm, gyro ball, megahorn, submission, mega punch, dizzy punch, dragon rush, blizzard, icicle spear,

[Team Rocket Elite]

did you read my post? why was I able to defense curl 6 times and amnesia 3 times? simple stat changes don´t cap at +/- 6?

Defense Curl still only rises the Defense level by 1. Amnesia still only rises the Special Defense Level by 2. You can still raise the stat level above 3, but levels 4 to 6 act the same as level 3.

[Blizzard]

Originally Posted by Fat Arseus

Why woud Unburden be an extra modifier? It's just like a new cap for stats that aren't Speed bascially, if I understand correctly. Also, I'm fairly sure my formula is how it works. Otherwise stuff would be waay faster after being Paralyzed. Also, Macho Brace, the Power items, and Iron Ball all multiply Speed by 0.5.

Both of the formulas have paralysis last...how would yours produce a different result, except for rounding differences? I'll try to change my order anyway.

And Unburden isn't an extra modifier, I just meant it adds to the normal speed modifiers, so a +6 speed pokemon would go to +7 if Unburden was in effect.

[Dragonfree]

Okay, I've tested Quick Claw pretty extensively by now, and I'm getting a considerably higher percentage than Peterko.

Stall Sableye of increasing levels, using Scratch on wild Bidoof and Starly in Route 301. I know it was insanely unpractical, but I did it that way anyway for some odd reason.

7/35
7/35
6/35
9/35
9/35
11/35
10/35
10/35
11/35
6/35
5/35
9/35
7/35
13/35
9/35
6/35

Quick Claw activated 130 out of 525 times: ~24.76%

It looks much closer to 25% than 18.75% to me. Maybe it's gone back to 23.4%.

I did this pretty much while on the computer and I wasn't always paying full attention, so although I am pretty sure I always watched after selecting my attack to see if Quick Claw activated, it is possible I may have missed a couple of activations. If so, however, it only strengthens my case that it's definitely not 18.75%, because I am very certain that I did not count any extra activations.

[Arseus]

Originally Posted by Fat Blizzard

Both of the formulas have paralysis last...how would yours produce a different result, except for rounding differences? I'll try to change my order anyway.

And Unburden isn't an extra modifier, I just meant it adds to the normal speed modifiers, so a +6 speed pokemon would go to +7 if Unburden was in effect.

Forgive me if I've said anything confusing about formulas Blizzard; Maths isn't my greatest subject, and I'm not very good at communicating what I'm trying to say in numbers.

As for Unburden, I'm sorry if I said anything odd. I misread Unburden for "Unaware" the first time around. My mistake. However, I am still pretty sure it is a seperate modifier, under the Ability Modifier. Otherwise, it should be passable by Baton Pass, but it has been discovered that it is not. Also, it makes no sense for a stat to go to +7. The game wouldn't allow it.

[Blizzard]

Originally Posted by Fat Arseus

Forgive me if I've said anything confusing about formulas Blizzard; Maths isn't my greatest subject, and I'm not very good at communicating what I'm trying to say in numbers.

As for Unburden, I'm sorry if I said anything odd. I misread Unburden for "Unaware" the first time around. My mistake. However, I am still pretty sure it is a seperate modifier, under the Ability Modifier. Otherwise, it should be passable by Baton Pass, but it has been discovered that it is not. Also, it makes no sense for a stat to go to +7. The game wouldn't allow it.

What the crap, why did I think it was a +1 stage boost? The ability description says speed doubles...did someone test this? I guess I need to search all the research threads now. >_>

[Boa1891]

Originally Posted by Fat Blizzard

What the crap, why did I think it was a +1 stage boost? The ability description says speed doubles...did someone test this? I guess I need to search all the research threads now. >_>

Actually, I was whining recently that it had never been conclusively tested. Easiest way to test it is to have something 2xDrifblim's speed, minus one. If it's 2x, it'll outspeed it. If not, it won't and we'll have to test for 1.5 and 1.75x.

[X-Act]

Originally Posted by Fat Peterko

ok first of all, someone has to clarify what in the world the ability simple does...my bibarel could use amnesia three times and defense curl six times...

I repeat myself, I have no clue what simple actually does, I don´t even understand the in-gmae description properly ._.

Yes, you can still use Defense Curl six times. The fourth, fifth and sixth Defense Curls don't do anything though. I had tested this, like, 6 months ago. ._.

You could go here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=364 and read from there until around post #379.

[Boa1891]

Originally Posted by Fat X-Act

Yes, you can still use Defense Curl six times. The fourth, fifth and sixth Defense Curls don't do anything though. I had tested this, like, 5 months ago. ._.

Well, they're passable. If Bibarel were to pass 3 stat ups, even though they act like 6 to him, the receiver still gets 3 that act like 3. I think you also posted this on your research, but it might have been someone else.

[X-Act]

Originally Posted by Fat Boa1891

Well, they're passable. If Bibarel were to pass 3 stat ups, even though they act like 6 to him, the receiver still gets 3 that act like 3. I think you also posted this on your research, but it might have been someone else.

The problem is that Bibarel doesn't learn Baton Pass. :) However, if you pass a +3 Attack to Bibarel, it is a +6 for him. If you pass a +4 Attack to Bibarel, it is still a +6 for him.

[Boa1891]

Originally Posted by Fat X-Act

The problem is that Bibarel doesn't learn Baton Pass. :) However, if you pass a +3 Attack to Bibarel, it is a +6 for him. If you pass a +4 Attack to Bibarel, it is still a +6 for him.

Well, you could always say that Skill Swap Drifblim learns Baton Pass. ;D

[Peterko]

ok did everyone just ignore my simple+gravity+dynamicpunch test or
a) is the PBR in-game description more believable?
b) simple doesn´t consider evasion/accuracy as stat changes?

I´ve read the link X-Act and you tested double team as well

I tested Double Team against the Noctowl with Air Slash, Reminiscent Headbutt, Extrasensory and Take Down. From 53 tries, Biidaru was hit 31 times after one Double Team, which is 58.5% of the time. Considering that Air Slash is 95% accurate and Take Down is 90% accurate, this translates to 2 Double Teams against any other Pokemon.

extrasensory is 100%, air slash 95%, zen headbutt 90% and take down 85% accurate...I mean 0.75 zen headbutt (67) and take down (63) are very near 58.5 and you know how the RNG can play with you, it´s not that I doubt your test, my question is: do we know for sure that accuracy/evasion wasn´t changed like many other things?

anyway, I´m gonna test simple with double team again to prove that the PBR gravity description is wrong

100 accurate moves with 3 double teams = 50% and if simple is applied 1/3, right?




nice to know that no guard+ohko move was proved in january ._.

[X-Act]

I think that is the only semblance of a DT test that anyone has ever done. Since I got to that percentage, I assumed that the percentages stayed the same as they were in ADV.

Yes with Simple, you're supposed to hit Bibarel only 1/3 of the time after it uses 3 DTs.

[Boa1891]

Well, evasion/accuracy ARE stat changes in Simple's eyes (someone needs to test Simple+Focus energy, eh eh?), but Simple ONLY applies to stages, and not to other modifiers (choice items or field effects). For example, it doesn't effect Tailwind's speed boost, so why on earth would it affect Gravity's evasion negative?
Just what I've observed.

[Peterko]

I got poor 11/48 hits with quick attack after 3 DTs, so around 23%

ok what boa is saying seems reasonable...gravity is probably an evasion modifier like brightpowder, lax incense and sand veil, not a stat modifier like double team, defog, sweet scent etc.

ok how can we prove that it isn´t a stat change? if I use DT 6 times and gravity is in effect...if it is a stat change it would be -4 evasion, 3/7 or 42.8571428%, if it is not a stat change, 3/9 x 5/3 = 5/9 or 55.55%?
DT 5 times + gravity = 3/6; or 5/8 if it doesn´t use the same scale
DT 4 times + gravity = 3/5; or 5/7 if it doesn´t use the same scale
DT 3 times + gravity = 3/4; or 5/6
DT 2 times + gravity = both the same
DT 1 time + gravity = 3/2; 5/4

nvm if this is a false assumption

[Arseus]

Originally Posted by Fat Obi

Do you know if Shield Dust blocks effects that occur on the user of the move, rather than the target that has Shield Dust? Like, I know it blocks Ice Beam's chance to Freeze, but does it also block Silver Wind's chance to increase all stats?

This is a very interesting question, and I don't think anybody has looked into this. A good way to test would be to use the move Charge Beam against something with Shield Dust. Also, Mist does not block things like the Superpower or Curse drops, correct?

EDIT : I just posted on this same page, and there's only one post below me, so I see no reason for a new post.

What happens if a Pokémon with more than one type uses Conversion2? Will just the type that the move was super effective against change? Will both types change if the Pokémon has a 4x weakness?

[david stone]

Originally Posted by Fat Peterko

ok how can we prove that it isn´t a stat change?

How I would test it is by using Double Team once under Gravity. If it's actually -2 Evasion for all, moves would have 4/3 their normal Accuracy, but if it's * 5/3 Accuracy, moves would have 3/4 * 5/3 = 5/4 their normal Accuracy, meaning a 75% accurate move (Sleep Powder without Compoundeyes) would have 100% Accuracy for -2 Evasion, but 93.75% Accuracy (possibly rounded to 93%) for * 5/3, as I suspect it is.

[leafgreen386]

Could someone test if Perish Song gets its PP lowered by Pressure? It just happened to me on shoddy, and I don't remember that happening in adv.

[Boa1891]

Originally Posted by Fat leafgreen386

Could someone test if Perish Song gets its PP lowered by Pressure? It just happened to me on shoddy, and I don't remember that happening in adv.

If any target has Pressure, it has PP lowered. The same applies to Sunny Day or Teeter Dance, even if it's your partner in a 2v2 match.

[Blizzard]

Originally Posted by Fat Boa1891

Actually, I was whining recently that it had never been conclusively tested. Easiest way to test it is to have something 2xDrifblim's speed, minus one. If it's 2x, it'll outspeed it. If not, it won't and we'll have to test for 1.5 and 1.75x.

83 speed chimecho, 42 speed drifloon, CRAP IT HAS AFTERMATH. Does anyone else want to test this since my test totally failed? XD

[Team Rocket Elite]

Drimblim - 56 speed
Volbeat - 103 speed

Drimblim was faster after Unberden activated.

[aura_lucario]

I can test razor fang, disable, and encore if you want me to. PM me if you do still need help with those. I'll try to do it as soon as possible if you want me to.

[Rubberbandman]

Has anyone tested to see if Ice fang and Thunder Fang bypass wounder guard?

[ΩDonut]

Originally Posted by Fat Rubberbandman

Has anyone tested to see if Ice fang and Thunder Fang bypass wounder guard?

That was the first thing I tested when I was testing Fire Fang + Wonder Guard. They do not bypass Wonder Guard.

[balladofwindfishes]

didn't know if this has been tested or not, but do Pokemon with Poison Heal absorb Toxic Spikes, or do they just simply get poisoned?

Serebii just updated with some weather effects. Some of them seem odd. Can thunder and blizzard seriously hit through Protect/Detect 1/4 of the time?

Also, does Arceus still gain the 1/3 boost from having his plate. Say I use the plate for grass moves. If my grass type arceus uses a grass move, will it gain, not only stab, but also the normal boost the plate item would give a regular Pokemon.