Bronzong vs Cresselia

Tracker · Sep 25th, 2007, 10:14:37 PM

After watching and playing on wifi and shoddy a bit, I've come to notice that many people use Bronzong and Cressy as mixed walls. It seems that cressy is better, but I want other opinions

Bronzong stats: 67/89/116/79/116/33
Use: lead set up with Trick Room, Stealth Rock, Reflect, Light Screen

Cresselia stats: 120/70/120/75/130/85
Use: can sweep with calm mind/charge beam hax, RestTalker, T-wave support and Lunar dance if you are crazy

ultimifier · Sep 25th, 2007, 10:16:55 PM

cresselia can sweep?? who actually gets swept by a cresselia

sleep talking versions get walled very easily, and calm mind cresselias can be walled by blissey or tyranitar

Tracker · Sep 25th, 2007, 10:18:12 PM

But which is better?

PS: base 85 speed is only a TINY bit slower than porygon-Z/gyarados

PaulC · Sep 25th, 2007, 10:23:15 PM

Cresselia is really easy to set up on. If you use it, I'd have a secondary wall that can Roar.
Bronzong always has the ability to be a nuisance, but as a lead it's way too vulnerable to being Taunted.

Chompy · Sep 25th, 2007, 11:01:27 PM

cressellia is bascially like a weaker version of blissey if you focus on its special defense. Cresselia is a stronger version of weezing but with more HP. Cresselia has a wide array of movesets and same with Bronzong. But cresselia has higher speed and higher durability as far as hit points, defense, and special defense goes.

maddog · Sep 25th, 2007, 11:08:02 PM

Brozong also gets Gyro Ball, Hypnosis, SR, EQ, Explosion, and has very useful resisances, including dragon, ice, grass, and is not weak to pursuit.

CT20 · Sep 25th, 2007, 11:13:12 PM

They both lack a great recovery move, but Cresselia is a bit bulkier and has somewhat better recovery(More HP too). They are really different things, Cresselia is quite good at stopping Dragons. Bronzong is more of a general wall.

Fishin · Sep 25th, 2007, 11:14:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat super_spiker

PS: base 85 speed is only a TINY bit slower than porygon-Z/gyarados

Unlike the aforementioned two pokemon, though, Cresselia likely won't be investing any EV's in speed.

I prefer Cresselia, personally. Her defensive stats are just plain excellent on both sides, and she does get a recovery move, even if it's not one of the better ones out there. Bronzong's typing is much better for tanking, though, especially with levitate. And it can explode.

Loetke · Sep 25th, 2007, 11:16:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat CT20

They both lack a great recovery move, but Cresselia is a bit bulkier and has somewhat better recovery(More HP too).

Somewhat better? Bronzong doesn't even have a recovery move, lol. Rest doesn't count because it incapacitates you for two turns. Moonlight isn't perfect, but only because of Sandstorm. Yeah, a lot of teams use TTar and Hippowdon, but "a lot" is still only like 1 in 5.

That being said, I have never used Cress, and I probably never will. She takes a LOT of the fun out of battles.

Swimrunner · Sep 25th, 2007, 11:33:12 PM

bronzong does more than just sit around and wall stuff hehe

~~toy~~ · Sep 25th, 2007, 11:36:55 PM

with a negative nature and 0 spd IVS

gyro ball hits shit really hard

Aeroblacktyl · Sep 25th, 2007, 11:39:13 PM

Does it really now? Isn't the most common moveset for Bronzong usually along the lines of:

Hypnosis
Stealth Rock
Light Screen/Rain Dance/Reflect/Trick Room/Sunny Day
Gyro Ball

Gyro Ball, the steel move, the attacking type steel, which is quite possibly the third worst offensive typing move there is. It just doesn't sit there, seriously? At least Cresselia can do damage to the things it's suppose to stop (Gyarados/Garchomp/Salamence).

Loetke · Sep 26th, 2007, 12:09:50 AM

I personally run the "Self Sustaining Sweeper" setup with Sassy and 0 Speed, and I've never wished I had different moves on it. It hasn't failed me yet.

StrangerDanger · Sep 26th, 2007, 12:27:19 AM

If you're looking for a mixed wall, Dusknoir can do a pretty good job of it, although most times it's better to make it Specially defensive, and then just add WoW to calm physical attackers, but Pain Split may be too ineffective for your liking as the only recovery move. Still, base 100 ATK is good for something that learns a STAB priority move, all elemental punches, and Focus punch. (and trick room)

Uxie is a worse cresselia in most regards, although 75/130/130 defenses with 95 speed ain't half bad, considering it can T-wave, U-turn, set up Rocks AND trick room. While Cresselia only does 1/4th of those things, what you'll find is it isn't so much a mixed wall as an all-around support pixie, with a lack of (reliable) recovery.

Spiritomb falls into the same category. While its immunities and Defenses can seem appealing to dual-wall, it shouldn't be used for that purpose alone. Getting STAB Pursuit/Sucker Punch, Hypnosis/Wow, Taunt, and then even the capability to use Nasty Plot and Dark Pulse is too good to pass up. Still, you'll find yourself relying on Pain Split for recovery.

Spiritomb's close, but my vote is go with the Self-sustaining Battleduck. Bronzong seems to be all wall, no bite, while Cresselia can not only wall, but can strike back against many common threats (Specsmence, Mixmence in the absence of Crunch, Garchomp, Gyarados, and to a lesser extent, Infernape) while still chargin' her special attack that can lead to a stalemate, and then an eventual win over Standard Blissey, with some luck. (with enough investment, Ice Beam becomes a surefire 3HKO iirc, that coupled with SS and a lucky freeze/ch can overcome the whore, while you LOL at its Tossing with your 444 HP.) The optimal recovery now seems to be RestTalk, but if that puts you off, try Moonlighting. While it allows a good 50% and some more diversity, SS teams will give you a hard time when it comes to 33%.

It comes down to preference. Bronzong will give you a lot of opportunities to set up whatever support/combos you wish to execute, Spiritomb/Dusknoir can make your opponent pull their hair out if they aren't prepared, what with their support/offensive options, and Pressure. Cresselia, however, just may make your opponents eat that hair.

ace15 · Sep 26th, 2007, 12:55:13 AM

They cover diffrent things, so it depends on your team.I personaly used cresselia and I didn't like it much so I'm currently using the self sustaining sweeper sassy set and it's pretty good.

Tracker · Sep 26th, 2007, 12:57:02 AM

I'm thinking that i'll be safer sticking to weezing as one of my wall.

liwi · Sep 26th, 2007, 6:19:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Aeroblacktyl

Does it really now? Isn't the most common moveset for Bronzong usually along the lines of:

Hypnosis
Stealth Rock
Light Screen/Rain Dance/Reflect/Trick Room/Sunny Day
Gyro Ball

Gyro Ball, the steel move, the attacking type steel, which is quite possibly the third worst offensive typing move there is. It just doesn't sit there, seriously? At least Cresselia can do damage to the things it's suppose to stop (Gyarados/Garchomp/Salamence).

Actually, Gyro Ball isn't that bad of a move on Bronzong. IIRC if Bronzong has its minimum speed of 63, Gyro Ball OHKO's max speed Weavile. It also does significant damage to Tyranitar, especially if its a DD variant. Gengar, Aerodactyl, and Azelf also take significant damage due to their high-speed-low-defense stats.

The_Rider · Sep 26th, 2007, 6:34:43 AM

Truthfully I was rather apprehensive of using Bronzong(it looks weird >_< very shallow I know...)but it really is good at what it does lack of a decent recovery move and a rather low HP stat hurts it the most but it still is very good at what it does Wall/SR/status Gyro Ball is really good on it IMO but personal preference varies with the player. I however since the start loved Cresselia(I also dislike Blissey so I guess that's another reason for me using Cresselia)and a lot of people laugh at it saying that it can't do shit but wall. I disagree with these guys however I know I am in the minority but I actually like Cresselia's sweeping(or ko'ng) ability. And i'm sure it kills on a more regular basis compared to Blissey.

Oh also someone posted above that Dusknoir has a base 90 Atk actually it has a base 100 Atk

Monkeydude85 · Sep 26th, 2007, 4:06:33 PM

Bronzong. Cressilia is way too cliche for me.

***Great Sage***** · Sep 26th, 2007, 4:08:28 PM

Personally, I like Cresselia better due to its superior stats; a lot more HP and better defenses on both sides is the main deciding factor. Note that Cresselia is the only true counter to Pokemon like mixed Salamence (well, SePh's, and not the sucky ones). Also, Calm Mind Cresselia is very dangerous and very underrated; I've swept quite a few teams with mine.

strikesocom · Sep 26th, 2007, 4:36:18 PM

You really can't sweep sweep with Cress's 85 base speed, I thought that was covered.

They are both fine, really. I personally think Cress is better than Bliss (if you can actually SR for one) since it has great Hp/Def/SpcDef and has a Resistance to fighting moves. Pursuit isn't fairly common these days, either. Bronzong is good as well, having a higher attack and Hypnosis.

In an ever-growing world of Bulkytauntrados's, Sleep-Talking-Charge/Ice-Beaming Cresselia out classes Brozong. Charge Beam does a huge 30.99% - 36.46% to Gyarados, and that is with only 50 BP. Bronzong dies if taunted with this set "Trick Room, Stealth Rock, Reflect, Light Screen". Lets just say it has either Gyro Ball/EQ/Explosion.

All calculations done with Intimidate.

Gyro Ball 150 BP (max) 12.76% - 15.10%

EQ Immune

Explosion 56.51% - 66.41%

***Great Sage***** · Sep 26th, 2007, 5:17:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat strikesocom

You really can't sweep sweep with Cress's 85 base speed, I thought that was covered.

To the contrary, it is highly possible. If you're saying that 85 base Speed isn't enough to sweep, then you neglect the potential of Pokemon like Curselax, Calm Mind Slowbro, and Suicune.

nomargu46 · Sep 26th, 2007, 5:22:21 PM

you are missing Bronzong's greatest asset -- Hypnosis.

it can cripplejust about every pokemon.

Tracker · Sep 26th, 2007, 5:28:06 PM

sleep clause...

scorchedsky · Sep 26th, 2007, 5:32:29 PM

I use both for different things. Running Gyro Ball/Hypnosis/Stealth Rocks/Reflect on Bronzong is great (gyro ball OHKOs Salamence after a DD with stealth rocks btw)

They're both very different pokemon, despite their defensive stats being sort of similar. Cress is my sleep absorber/resttalker, while Bronzong is support and eats dragon attacks for breakfast.

Sep 25th, 2007, 10:14:37 PM	#1
Tracker Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 520 The true north strong and free	Bronzong vs Cresselia After watching and playing on wifi and shoddy a bit, I've come to notice that many people use Bronzong and Cressy as mixed walls. It seems that cressy is better, but I want other opinions Bronzong stats: 67/89/116/79/116/33 Use: lead set up with Trick Room, Stealth Rock, Reflect, Light Screen Cresselia stats: 120/70/120/75/130/85 Use: can sweep with calm mind/charge beam hax, RestTalker, T-wave support and Lunar dance if you are crazy

Sep 25th, 2007, 10:23:15 PM	#4
PaulC Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 119	Cresselia is really easy to set up on. If you use it, I'd have a secondary wall that can Roar. Bronzong always has the ability to be a nuisance, but as a lead it's way too vulnerable to being Taunted. __________________ FC: 1633 1668 3358 Trade thread: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28012

Sep 25th, 2007, 11:33:12 PM	#10
Swimrunner Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 868 Maryland USA	bronzong does more than just sit around and wall stuff hehe __________________ 4554 2991 9838

Sep 25th, 2007, 11:39:13 PM	#12
Aeroblacktyl The pizza doesn't scream in the oven! LOL! Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 8,334	Does it really now? Isn't the most common moveset for Bronzong usually along the lines of: Hypnosis Stealth Rock Light Screen/Rain Dance/Reflect/Trick Room/Sunny Day Gyro Ball Gyro Ball, the steel move, the attacking type steel, which is quite possibly the third worst offensive typing move there is. It just doesn't sit there, seriously? At least Cresselia can do damage to the things it's suppose to stop (Gyarados/Garchomp/Salamence). __________________

Sep 26th, 2007, 12:27:19 AM	#14
StrangerDanger the wind is passing by. Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,763 Santa Monica, CA	If you're looking for a mixed wall, Dusknoir can do a pretty good job of it, although most times it's better to make it Specially defensive, and then just add WoW to calm physical attackers, but Pain Split may be too ineffective for your liking as the only recovery move. Still, base 100 ATK is good for something that learns a STAB priority move, all elemental punches, and Focus punch. (and trick room) Uxie is a worse cresselia in most regards, although 75/130/130 defenses with 95 speed ain't half bad, considering it can T-wave, U-turn, set up Rocks AND trick room. While Cresselia only does 1/4th of those things, what you'll find is it isn't so much a mixed wall as an all-around support pixie, with a lack of (reliable) recovery. Spiritomb falls into the same category. While its immunities and Defenses can seem appealing to dual-wall, it shouldn't be used for that purpose alone. Getting STAB Pursuit/Sucker Punch, Hypnosis/Wow, Taunt, and then even the capability to use Nasty Plot and Dark Pulse is too good to pass up. Still, you'll find yourself relying on Pain Split for recovery. Spiritomb's close, but my vote is go with the Self-sustaining Battleduck. Bronzong seems to be all wall, no bite, while Cresselia can not only wall, but can strike back against many common threats (Specsmence, Mixmence in the absence of Crunch, Garchomp, Gyarados, and to a lesser extent, Infernape) while still chargin' her special attack that can lead to a stalemate, and then an eventual win over Standard Blissey, with some luck. (with enough investment, Ice Beam becomes a surefire 3HKO iirc, that coupled with SS and a lucky freeze/ch can overcome the whore, while you LOL at its Tossing with your 444 HP.) The optimal recovery now seems to be RestTalk, but if that puts you off, try Moonlighting. While it allows a good 50% and some more diversity, SS teams will give you a hard time when it comes to 33%. It comes down to preference. Bronzong will give you a lot of opportunities to set up whatever support/combos you wish to execute, Spiritomb/Dusknoir can make your opponent pull their hair out if they aren't prepared, what with their support/offensive options, and Pressure. Cresselia, however, just may make your opponents eat that hair. Last edited by StrangerDanger; Sep 26th, 2007 at 8:04:14 AM.

Sep 25th, 2007, 10:16:55 PM	#2
ultimifier Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,095 toronto, canada	cresselia can sweep?? who actually gets swept by a cresselia sleep talking versions get walled very easily, and calm mind cresselias can be walled by blissey or tyranitar

Sep 25th, 2007, 10:18:12 PM	#3
Tracker Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 520 The true north strong and free	But which is better? PS: base 85 speed is only a TINY bit slower than porygon-Z/gyarados

Sep 25th, 2007, 11:01:27 PM	#5
Chompy Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 281 Deerfield IL	cressellia is bascially like a weaker version of blissey if you focus on its special defense. Cresselia is a stronger version of weezing but with more HP. Cresselia has a wide array of movesets and same with Bronzong. But cresselia has higher speed and higher durability as far as hit points, defense, and special defense goes.

Sep 25th, 2007, 11:08:02 PM	#6
maddog is a master debater Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,323 get it	Brozong also gets Gyro Ball, Hypnosis, SR, EQ, Explosion, and has very useful resisances, including dragon, ice, grass, and is not weak to pursuit.

Sep 25th, 2007, 11:13:12 PM	#7
CT20 Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 929 on a seagull's wing	They both lack a great recovery move, but Cresselia is a bit bulkier and has somewhat better recovery(More HP too). They are really different things, Cresselia is quite good at stopping Dragons. Bronzong is more of a general wall.

Sep 25th, 2007, 11:36:55 PM	#11
~~toy~~ Banned deucer. Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,863	with a negative nature and 0 spd IVS gyro ball hits shit really hard

Sep 26th, 2007, 12:55:13 AM	#15
ace15 Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,317 Everywhere	They cover diffrent things, so it depends on your team.I personaly used cresselia and I didn't like it much so I'm currently using the self sustaining sweeper sassy set and it's pretty good.

Sep 26th, 2007, 12:57:02 AM	#16
Tracker Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 520 The true north strong and free	I'm thinking that i'll be safer sticking to weezing as one of my wall.

Sep 26th, 2007, 6:34:43 AM	#18
The_Rider Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,307 The hell do you care???	Truthfully I was rather apprehensive of using Bronzong(it looks weird >_< very shallow I know...)but it really is good at what it does lack of a decent recovery move and a rather low HP stat hurts it the most but it still is very good at what it does Wall/SR/status Gyro Ball is really good on it IMO but personal preference varies with the player. I however since the start loved Cresselia(I also dislike Blissey so I guess that's another reason for me using Cresselia)and a lot of people laugh at it saying that it can't do shit but wall. I disagree with these guys however I know I am in the minority but I actually like Cresselia's sweeping(or ko'ng) ability. And i'm sure it kills on a more regular basis compared to Blissey. Oh also someone posted above that Dusknoir has a base 90 Atk actually it has a base 100 Atk __________________ Slice n Dice has kindly accepted to tutor me in the field of competitive battling. Besides being a pro at battling he is also an avid breeder/trader. Check out his thread here.

Sep 26th, 2007, 4:06:33 PM	#19
Monkeydude85 Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 273 Alaska	Bronzong. Cressilia is way too cliche for me. __________________ Pure happiness is having the same amount of tortilla chips and salsa when you've finished your bowl.

Sep 26th, 2007, 4:08:28 PM	#20
*Great Sage* Administrator** Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 5,872 Boston, MA Mentor	Personally, I like Cresselia better due to its superior stats; a lot more HP and better defenses on both sides is the main deciding factor. Note that Cresselia is the only true counter to Pokemon like mixed Salamence (well, SePh's, and not the sucky ones). Also, Calm Mind Cresselia is very dangerous and very underrated; I've swept quite a few teams with mine.

Sep 26th, 2007, 4:36:18 PM	#21
strikesocom Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,545 Rhode Island	You really can't sweep sweep with Cress's 85 base speed, I thought that was covered. They are both fine, really. I personally think Cress is better than Bliss (if you can actually SR for one) since it has great Hp/Def/SpcDef and has a Resistance to fighting moves. Pursuit isn't fairly common these days, either. Bronzong is good as well, having a higher attack and Hypnosis. In an ever-growing world of Bulkytauntrados's, Sleep-Talking-Charge/Ice-Beaming Cresselia out classes Brozong. Charge Beam does a huge 30.99% - 36.46% to Gyarados, and that is with only 50 BP. Bronzong dies if taunted with this set "Trick Room, Stealth Rock, Reflect, Light Screen". Lets just say it has either Gyro Ball/EQ/Explosion. All calculations done with Intimidate. Gyro Ball 150 BP (max) 12.76% - 15.10% EQ Immune Explosion 56.51% - 66.41% __________________ Platinum: 3051 7600 2966 Mewchu Pearl: 2320 2717 1693 Brendan HeartGold: 1119 2995 7835 DeFran Trade Thread 1st YouTube Video. More to come. Team Forretress 2

Sep 26th, 2007, 5:22:21 PM	#23
nomargu46 Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 954 Pyrite Town	you are missing Bronzong's greatest asset -- Hypnosis. it can cripplejust about every pokemon.

Sep 26th, 2007, 5:28:06 PM	#24
Tracker Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 520 The true north strong and free	sleep clause...

Sep 26th, 2007, 5:32:29 PM	#25
scorchedsky Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 261	I use both for different things. Running Gyro Ball/Hypnosis/Stealth Rocks/Reflect on Bronzong is great (gyro ball OHKOs Salamence after a DD with stealth rocks btw) They're both very different pokemon, despite their defensive stats being sort of similar. Cress is my sleep absorber/resttalker, while Bronzong is support and eats dragon attacks for breakfast.