What will it take for the gold symbol at the Pike? [RMT]

[hbdragon88]

My seventh run this month was snapped at Room 70. I have 70 championships and still the closest I have gotten is 109 rooms set back in January. Here are the reasons:

• Messed up on EndFlail Kingdra, should have switched to Gengar to take the hit (Room 97)
• Houndoom with Crunch and Fire Blast killed Latios/Gengar and Metagross (Room 61)
• Regirock Countered Metagross, then Latios has timely paralysis (Kirlia/Dusclops), then Gengar was flinchaxed by Rock Slide (Room 89)
• Houndoom again, along with Claydol and Porygon2 (Room 61) (switched to Snorlax after this incident)
• Miltank got two critical hits on Snorlax, swept the rest with Shadow Ball (Room 101)
• Crobat swept Latios, almost swept Snorlax, and I was left with Gengar against an Overheat Arcanine (Room 61)
• ll three are paralyzed at the beginning. Gengar gets flinchhaxed three times by Aggron's Rock Slide, timely paralysis gets Latios killed (Room 69)

Is this just a matter of luck? Or does my team need overhaul?


Heracross@Choice Band
Ability: Guts
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spd, 6 HP
- Megahorn
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Brick Break

My new lead. I savor getting Toxiced in the Pike now because that makes him even more dangeorus. Hits hard, able to take down Snorlax, Slaking, and co. with Brick Break. Enemy Snorlax used to inspire fear because they could Curse up and my Snorlax had difficulty taking them on. Rock Slide deals with normal Bugs (Steel typed ones require Brick Break). Notable problems include paralysis or outright frozenness, and surprise Aerial Aces from unlikely Pokemon (such as Armaldo).


Latios@Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 SAtk, 252 Spd, 6 HP
- Dragon Claw
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Recover

My lead-off. Fast enough to outrun Pokemon even when paralyzed (in the wild Pokemon rooms). DC is for STAB, the rest follows for typing coverage that hits 10 types for SE. Shadow Ball is what typically brings him down.


Snorlax@Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
Nature: Adamant
EVs: (The ADV Smogon set)
- Curse
- Return
- Shadow Ball
- Rest

Curselax. Supposedly the answer to the original hole in my team - there were five Pokemon that could beat my Latios, Gengar, and Metagross every time - Kangaskhan (Shadow Ball/Earthquake), Miltank (SB/EQ/Counter), Snorlax (SB/EQ), Slaking (SB/EQ), and Houndoom (Fire Blast/Crunch). Metagross could Explode, but I often saw Snorlax and Miltank on one team, or something like that, and it was far too slow to explode on Houndoom before it used FB. Snorlax's bane is Fighting, but Gengar is immune to it and Latios resists. It even resists Ice attacks and can Curse up against opponents like Wobbuffet and in one case Absol (he kept trying to SB me).

Is there something fundamentally wrong with this team? Any moves that I should change to better meet the threats? Or is my doom at the Frontier just getting haxxed like crazy, and I need to just keep repeatedly assaulting the Pike until luck falls in my favor.

Old Pokemon


Gengar@Scope Lens (replaced by Heracross)
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SAtk, 252 Spd, 6 HP
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Fire Punch
- Giga Drain

The niche Pokemon. I give full credit to her for the abrupt disappearance of the Bug and Steel types that threatened Latios. Not a safe switch-in, though; Venomoth and Medicham, for instance, both now carry Psychic to deal with Gengar. Giga Drain is for Swampert/Quagsire, which occasionally appear. Fire Punch was supposedly for Steels, except that I've seen very few of them now, and I'm not sure if it's because Gengar carries Fire Punch or not.


Metagross@Lefovers (replaced by Snorlax)
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk, 129 HP, 129 SDef
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Explosion
- Agility

Agiligross. The problem was that any Fire attack gave it no chance to survive. Leading with it led to the rise of Exploding Forretress, Steelix. Neturality to Megahorn didn't help against Heracross. Still, a very sturdy Pokemon; a fully-powered Ninjask couldn't even OHKO with Shadow Ball.

[sandman]

blissey walls two of your guy, tyranitar could cause problems another is just luck

[hbdragon88]

It depends on the Blissey. Gengar can take ones without Ice Beam (immune to ST, Counter, and Toxic), and I eventually won out once she ran out of Softboiled PP. Another variant tried to use Shadow Ball on Latios (I switched to Snorlax, so no damage). The only one that I fear is a CM one that had Fire Blast and Blizzard. I had Thick Fat Snorlax, but I wasn't going to test out how long Snorlax would last against that Blissey.

[Thorns]

Regarding Gengar, I would make him your lead, equip him with Thunderbolt/Ice Punch (if possible)/Explosion/Hypnosis. Hypnosis the first Pokemon, beat up on it, repeat. Explosion for when you're in dire need.

[z0MG]

"Fast enough to outrun Pokemon even when paralyzed" wtf ><
lati is an uber, replace

[hbdragon88]

Originally Posted by Fat z0MG

"Fast enough to outrun Pokemon even when paralyzed" wtf ><
lati is an uber, replace

I was referring to the wild Pokemon rooms, actually...that was confusing. That's also probably because the run away formula in those rooms is skewered; in my last battle Vaporeon (65 speed) went first against Latios, while I can easily run away from Milotc (81 speed) in the wild Pokemon rooms.

Nintendo doesn't recognize him as an uber, he's the best darn Boltbeamer that ADV has to offer (too bad Soul Dew doesn't work in the Frontier). However, if you think the typing doesn't complement Gengar and Snorlax, what would you suggest?

[gorm]

you could try boltbeam surf recover starmie over lati

[Little Green Yoda]

I beat the Battle Pike in one streak. <_<

Try CBMetagross over Gengar. Metagross does a great job complementing Lati_s typewise though I used a CMLatias instead of a raw sweeping Latios. I don't remember the Pike being very difficult but I do remember getting very lucky in the final match against Lucy's Gyarados (no EQ to finish off my para'd Metagross while I Rock Slided it to death was pure hilarity).

[hbdragon88]

Okay, that does it. I have 80 championships. Nine runs at the Pike this month, 793 rooms in this month alone. I got swept by a Miltank+Kangaskhan double battle in room 80. Fucking Miltank. Latios and Gengar fell, of course, and Miltank used Focus Punch three times. The first FP was my fault; I was trying to Curse. The next two were because Kangaskhan had Attracted me and I couldn't move. I am this close to raising a female one to counter that bitch.

I think Gengar needs to go. Ideally, in a 6-vs6, you would bring Gengar into resistances or immunities, but here? She's the last stand, essentially, and she doesn't take hits well. As mentioned before, I switch her into Venomoth or Medicham, and I get hit with Psychic. I can't make her the front runner, as someone suggested, because if she dies early, then I'm stuck against the niche Pokemon: stuff like Swampert, Quagsire can easily walk all over me if they're the third ones and Gengar has already fainted. Heck, Heracross could almost 2KO her with Megahorn even with a 4x resistance to it.

What I need a bulky, hard hitting sweeper that doesn't suffer from horrible typing or move redundency. Okay. Gengar has excellent typing, but she shares two weaknesses with Latios, and that means that a lot of things can rip holes through my team (since SB is a TM). This means that, off the bat, Slaking and Salamence are out, unless I want to replace them with Snorlax and Latios. In practice Latios barely survives Ice Beams at full HP; Salamence will be oblierated by them. And Slaking takes far too many hits during Truant turn.

Here are, I suppose, the three choices out of the OU tier list

Regice - Not sure which variant, I could use help here. I raised a Calm-natured one with a Boltbeam moveset to Level 50 but, like most Pokemon, I just stuck it in the box and haven't used it. I used to think that I needed Boltbeaming redundency - that's why in earlier teams I had Latios and Latias - but I realize that I really just need something that hits hard.

Swampert - I don't have a problem wtih Thunderbolt (Latios isn't weak to it), but he tanks well and can hit hard. Restalk is out of the question since I used the Rest talk tutor on my now-defunct Lapras. Again, moveset is unknown here. Cursepert seems redundant to Curselax. Does Mixpert really not damage things well like the Smogon analysis says?

Metagross - Well, back to the old standby. I can try CBgross since he will be in the background, not out in front (I usually run Agility in the beginning). Part of the problem was that EQ and Fire moves were common; I get an extra Fire resist with Snorlax, who can Curse up to boost his Defense.

I may also try a CM Latios over raw sweeping one. In theory, the Pike is such that you're supposed to recover, but I seem to rarely get the opprotunity to, as Latios gets 2KOed by stuff it isn't resistant to, such as Sludge Bomb.

[Tyrano]

Actually Mixpert works quite well, or at least when I used it. I think Heracross could be a good pokemon on your team. With the full sweeper set (RS/EQ/MH/BB) he can deal with Slaking, Miltank, Porygon2 and Blissey. If Claydol doesn't carry Psychic he somewhat deals with him. Like you said with your Metagross, you can easily switch into a Fire type move and Curse up. He can stop Regirock and Metagross and if he gets paralyzed from Kirlia/Dusclops, he gets that extra attack boost from Guts. If not Heracross then another poke that can hit hard with Fighting type attacks. Just a suggestion.

[hbdragon88]

Yikes, argh, okay, I give up, I surrender to destiny. I was doing the Dome today since the better had rotated to that area, and I got owned. Hard. I switched Gengar out for CBgross, and the Steels came back: Steelix, Forretress, and Skarmory. During the first Dome battle, Forretress Exploded on Latios and Steelix did the same to Snorlax after EQ whittled down his HP enough. Luckily the referee ruled in my favor - not sure if it would ever rule against me. The second battle entailed a Reversaiken that OHKOed Metagross and Latios. Would have been stopped cold by Gengar, or Bullet Punch of this was D/P.

I think I should keep to two specials. The only huge special walls are Milotic, Blissey, and Claydol (IIRC), and Blissey is the only one who comes with frequent regularity. According to the Smogon chart, Umbreon and Tyanitar are also there as well, but I have few problems with Umbreon (it depends on whether it has Faint Attack or Double Edge; Snorlax/Metagross easily take on the Faint Attack version, whiel Gengar is immune to Double Edge and Metagross resists it), and haven't faced Tyanitar. Those are not a pain to take out. However, there seem to be more physical walls, such as Aggron, Steelix, Forretress, and Skarmory, and they seem to leap up in spades when Gengar is not there, as the Dome experience just demonstrated.

The typing is sexy, I admit that. That's why I was using it. It covers Latios well. Maybe the Dome is better since you know what Pokemon you will face and can adjust accordingly. I had a simlar experience when I stuck Agiligross out in front first during one run at the Tower. A Tower run ended at room 36 exactly like how my Dome run nearly ended: Forretress and Steelix Exploded (the difference was that Marowak took out Metagross with EQ).

I think I'll try Heracross. I miss Close Combat and Stone Edge, but let's see how the AI adjusts to Hera.

[hbdragon88]

K, got my butt kicked four more times in the intervening week. Bad shit happens when Heracross goes down, like the Snorlax that KOed Latios and then my Snorlax after Heracross had gone down to Aerial Ace in a previous battle. Another time, I was pretty sure Blastoise was running Countercoat, and Heracross was dead, so I switched to Snorlax and attempted to max out Curses; well, he had been poisoned by Kirlia before, and when he was down to about 60 HP Blastoise used BB to kill him.

Swampert really is good. I thought, oh yes, I've got a burned Heracross to kill whoever comes her way. Well, even with the x2 boost (CB and Guts), Swampert survived Megahorn, and Countered back.

it seems that all the best moves are TMs, which leads to the nastiest surprises, such as Shadow Ball Espeon.

For one, I know that Swords Dance probably won't work. Heracross is already getting killed by surprise AAs; better to use a Choice Band and hope to get burned or poisoned, because paralysis is most unkind and sleep and freeze wholly nullify it from moving (that reminds me: Kirlia put Hera ans Snorlax to sleep once, and they stayed asleep for four turns each, and I got swept by Whiscash in room 38).

Snorlax is now third, and Heracross leads. Curselax hasn't been kind to me; the last attempt, on room 84, ended because Kingdra had gotten three SDs in as he slept (to get rid of burn status) and then used Double Edge with impunity. Yet in most of November's runs, it was really useful to have someone who could set up and sweep, especially to take down Wobbuffet, Blissey, and some strange sets.

Should I make her Jolly? It's hard to anticipate the AI. I will never forget the time where I thought, "Oh shit" because it was down to foe Kangaskhan and my Eengar and the Kangaskhan didn't carry Shadow Ball. I haven't seen Miltank, but I have seen Kangaskhan (once). Those would be the key reason to boost her speed to beat Miltank, but they could just as easily outrun me with Jolly as well.

I'm up to 107 championships now. But I think I have a relatively solid team, so, onwards with the next one?

[xBLUEx]

OH MY GOD DID I JUST MAKE ANOTHER POST COMPLETELY VOID OF CONTENT

[hbdragon88]

I'm up to 117 championships now...got blasted the first time by a fucking Aerodactyl that got two Anicentpower boosts in a row, the last one being a critical hit on top of that. That's a .06% of that happening, which almost rivals my loss in the Tower when Metagross missed Meteor Mash four times in a row (.05%). The conventions are strange. Okay, well I can understand why Latios got smacked with two APs - he took the first hit intended for Hera, and Aero is faster, so he struck first. Yet, when I had the same scenario today, the reverse happened. This time I let Hera die (was locked in CB EQ), and when Latios came out after she fainted, he went first - not Aero. It sometimes happens when a new Pokemon comes in - Snorlax will go first with Curse even though he's ridicuously slow.

I need a list of Pokemon that know AA. Armaldo just surprised me (another surprise) by killing Hera with Aerial Ace. Then Muk came out, and he took down Latios (DC 3KOs, while Sludge Bomb 2KOs back), and Exploded on Snorlax. The quirks of the AI are unpredictable - I know that Forretress and Steelix will Explode at full health, but Muk waited until he was down to the red to do so. So I don't know what triggers them to do Explosion.

The AI can literally bluff its way to beat me because I'm increasingly over-thinking in trying to beat it. One such example was a Swalot, and I switched Latios out because I thought it might carry Shadow Ball, but it instead tried to use Sludge on my incoming Metagross. As stated above, I was all "oh shit" when it was down to Gengar and Kangaskhan, only to find out that Kangaskhan only had Fake Out and not Shadow Ball. So I may anticipate AA...only to find that I could safely use Hera anyway...

[Little Green Yoda]

The Battle Frontier sticky topic has a list of every BF Pokemon so that should help you scout movesets.

I'm wondering...are you avoiding battles as much as possible in the Battle Pike? I still can't imagine how unlucky you are at this.

[hbdragon88]

Originally Posted by Fat Little Green Yoda

The Battle Frontier sticky topic has a list of every BF Pokemon so that should help you scout movesets.

I'm wondering...are you avoiding battles as much as possible in the Battle Pike? I still can't imagine how unlucky you are at this.

I'll try that. I thought it was only for the Battle Factory, but I've seen them in the Pike too - the Shadow Ball-less one has a Focus Band and only Normal and Fighting moves. On the other hand, there's one that packs both Aerial Ace and Shadow Ball. Yikes.

Yeah, I've been avoiding them as much as possible, and again it's quirky. I used to think that the ratios are rigged in the upper divisions, but during my last run in the 70-84 I got no battles at all, so no. But yeah, during one run six of the seven rooms were battles, and the only reason I ever survived that time was because the one of them healed up all three Pokemon (this was when I had Gengar, and both her and Latios fainted). I shudder to think how Curselax would have handled the next four rooms by himself. In other runs (SB/Explosion Muk ended my 15th run since 11/5), I've noticed that it gets jacked up from 2-3 battles to about 4-5 or so, or at least it feels like that.

Anecdotally, today I recall getting three "somewhat-tough trainers" in a row. I rarely get normal ones; they're either double, somewhat tough, or the Kirlia rooms. I have to be careful around those, too - Toxic and WoW are the only good conditions, and poisoning from one time doomed me against a Blastoise (he waited until I was down to low health before BB'ing me, though I had to Curse up because I suspected he packed Countercoat - the BF list shows othewise now). Ice Beam and Hypnosis aren't good, period, and I hate paralysis. Already bad enough that Hera gets outrun by a lot of things wiht a paltry 85 speed. I should note that that run had two regular trianers in a row, which beat up my beat pretty badly, so it's not always true that the ST trainers are the ones that kill me all the itme.

[Little Green Yoda]

Whenever I play the Battle Pike, I tend to avoid the status rooms ("wave of nostalgia") as much as possible. Frankly, I'd take my chances with a battle than random status. When the lady has that saying, I just pick one of the other two rooms and cross my fingers.

Again, I'm still baffled as to why it's giving you such a hard time. The team I used (CMLatias, Agiligross, Boomlax) isn't all that different from yours. I guess I'll play it again when the gambling man decides to wager on the Pike to see if I can think of anything else.

[hbdragon88]

Weee. Crushed again, in room 72. Honest to god, I'm this close to hacking the game up, with 999 stats, or 130 defenses and speed on Heracross. Slowking, like Houndoom before (with Gengar/Latios/Metagross), can seriously dent my team. It used Psychic, killing Heracross (because Megahorn missed), and then used Ice Beam on Latios, seriously damaging him. I tried to Recover but Granbull's Mega Kick knocked me down anyway, and then - for the love of god - it scored a critical hit Mega Kick on Snorlax. It probably doesn't work, but the % chance of MH missing and then the CH Mega Kick is .9%.

In retrospect, it was an old Latios - he had Recover instad of Calm Mind. If I had Calm Minded when he was up against Slowking he would gained enough power to KO Slowking, and possible to do the same to Granbull. Same thing happened before with the Whiscash and Kingdra - as it stands now Latios can't OHKO Kingdra with an unboosted Dragon Claw.

So. 17 runs since November 5, with 1371 rooms cleared, and I'm back to square one at 0 rooms.

[hbdragon88]

Crushed again. But at least this time I reached room 120, en route to a 131st championship. Complete BS too. Due to a series of unfortunate events, I lost Heracross and Snorlax in room 114. Opposing Heracross are hard to deal with, and I thought I would try Rock Sliding her and Magmar to death, except that Magmar dodged the attack. In room 120, Gyarados survived Latios' TB, paralyzed it, then damaged him with Return. Dewgong came out, and obviously Ice Beamed Latios to death to end that run.

Hmm. Consulting the Battle Frontier guide, the only Gyarados variant it could have been was the Careful one, but the Careful one doesn't have Return on it...that is strange. I guess they can sub out Return and Frustration on a need-to-use basis. What AM I supposed to do? Do I try Rock Sliding it to death instead?

[hbdragon88]

It happened again. Last time, it was Miltank who scored two critical hits on Snorlax as he tried to Curse up. This time - in room 22 - it was Pidgeot who scored two critical hit Aerial Aces to shut down Snorlax, again. For god's sake. Two critical hits has a .3% chance of it happening and it happens. Why can't I ever get those crutical critial hits?

Heracross works really well, and I mean, really well. Shuts down Normals, threats, etc. particularly Tyranitar. Since learning that Rock is SE against Bug, I've been having a fun time Rock Sliding Venomoth, Ninjask, and Illumise to death, although there is the threat that Venomoth can Psychic back to kill Hera.

Bad things happen when it goes down. Magneton is quite frankly a bitch. A bitch. It only has 50/75/90? It took five hits (STAB DC and Return) from Latios and Snorlax to kill that thing while suffering from repeated Thunderdance hits. And I need SB to take down Ghosts (the only counter), so I don't want to drop it in lieu of EQ.

[blastoiselover100]

I run Snorlax or Blissey, Flygon, and Ninetales. I beat the Battle Pyramid for the Silver Symbol in one go. Currently trying for Gold. I beat Brandon's Regis with Blissey alone even after Regirock exlpoded on me.

[JJE8489]

You got me wanting to play Emerald again and just rush into the Frontier. LOL

[Little Green Yoda]

OK, my gambling guy happened to wager on the Pike today so I'll try to get in some sets to see if I can think up any more tips for you. After tacking on 3 more sets to an existing streak, I've just passed 84 rooms.

I'm using CBSala, Shell Bell Gross, and Blissey. So far the only close call has been a heavily weakened, but Focus Band'd, Blastoise surviving Mence's EQ and KOing it with IB. This was followed by Blissey almost losing to DTLudicolo.

If I get any more sets in, I'll post the results.

[hbdragon88]

Score another understimation in room 84, trying to score my 143rd championship. Just like how Magneton with 50/95/70 walled the hell out of Latios' DC and Snorlax's Return...Tentacruel with 80/65/120 took a Guts- and CB-boosted Megahorn and barely survived. Megahorn missed the first time, and Heracross died to two STAB Hydro Pumps. Muk 2KOed Latios with Sludge Bomb, and then Exploded on Snorlax (Snorlax had been frozen before). For the love of god, why if I Explode I lose, while if the AI explodes and we're both on the third Pokemon they win?

A helping of bad luck, I'll say, nothing really horrible though. 15% chance that Megahorn misses, with a 72% chance of Tentacruel hitting twice with Hydro Pump. Snorlax had to be unfrozen that turn in order to Return Muk to death, but it didn't happen.

This compares nothing to the discovery that the Latios in the Battle Tower carries a working Soul Dew, though. I was on round 49 and my Latios knocks off 70% of the foe's Latios' HP. Foe Latios OHKOs my Latios with the same move.

[Little Green Yoda]

Unless the Battle Frontier Pokemon list is wrong/incomplete, none of the Lati_s carry Soul Dew. Min/max damage, weird EV spreads, imperfect IVs perhaps?

Was it a random status effect that froze Lax or was a stray Ice Beam/Blizzard? I've learned never to take chances when it comes to picking a "status" room. Always go in the room with a trainer if directed unless you're getting desperate and never go in rooms that might have status in them. Ever.

And I think your game just hates you. =p You're getting some crazy in-battle hax at some pretty low number rooms. In my recent close call (room 82?), there was a bunch of crazy hax, but in the end Ludicolo could've iced the victory had it used Leech Seed on Blissey. Instead, it chose to DT the last few turns while I somehow managed to connect repeatedly with Seismic Toss (despite me missing several times earlier in the battle). That's why I always felt the game used a rubberband AI that is more "forgiving" at lower levels. Apparently not the case with you. XD

Also, consider using Blissey. Aromatherapy/Heal Bell comes in handy once in a while but her true strength lies in her special walling abilities and Softboiled. You can heal your teammates outside of battle with Softboiled (at Blissey's expense) and can usually sneak Blissey in against a special attacker to reheal itself (and defeat the opposing Pokemon while you're at it).