In-game tiers

[Chou Toshio]

Funny, I barely remember the plot for GSC, and I actually remember RSE's even less. It was that forgettable. :P

[sarunibi]

Here is the tier that I would use for Yellow.

Pikachu
Rattata
Mankey
Spearow
Charmander
Bulbasaur
Squirtle
Diglett/Dugtrio

Rattata (as has been said before) I don't think really needs to be explained, nor does Spearow. Mankey is up there because you can get one extremely early in the game (west of Viridian city), and at level 9 it learns low kick. Without Mankey, Brock pretty much owns you in yellow as Pikachu and everyone else will be useless against Brock's Geodude and Onix. Plus, Mankey learns a good set of moves throughout the game and can evolve into Primeape. Machop you don't get till later in the game, and you have to trade to get Machamp. Hitmonlee you don't get till halfway till the game, and Hitmonchan sucks. Mankey/Primeape is the best fighter ingame.

Pikachu is good because without it, Misty owns you. In order to get Bulbasaur, Pikachu had to be really happy with you, and even if you managed to get Bulbasaur before facing Misty, Bulbasaur was still useless as it was underleveled (all the Kanto starters are at 10 when you get them) Pikachu is also the only pokemon in yellow that learns thunderbolt (which was 1 tm from Lt. Surge). Everyone else had to be taught it. If you trade your pikachu to Pokemon stadium, you can get Surf. If you then trade pikachu to Red/Blue and evolve to Raichu there, you can get yourself a surfing Raichu with thunderbolt. That alone makes pikachu better then jolteon or any other electric in the game. And if you have surf on pikachu, you don't need any water types as pikachu can serve as this. Surfing pikachu owns the first 2 Elite 4 members by himself.

Charmander is next because out of the 3 starters that you can get, it's the easiest to obtain. Bulbasaur requires you to make Pikachu really happy, while Squirtle requires you to beat Lt. Surge first. With Charmander, you just have to speak to him. Charmanders only problems are the first 2 gyms, but if you wait to get Charmander after you beat Misty, then this problem becomes moot. By the time you face Erika, you should be close to having Charizard (if you don't already), and can use HM fly. Once you have Charizard, you don't need any other flying type.

Bulbasaur is next as it's better then Bellsprout/Oddish in the long run. Squirtle's usefullness is hurt a bit due to the fact that just about any decent water can fill the role of water type, and if you have surfing pikachu, you really don't have a need for Squirtle unless you really need ice beam.

Diglett and Dugtrio are self explanatory.

[Chou Toshio]

I think ponyta also belongs in OU with Mankey because you can get it so early. Granted there's no flare blitz in Yellow, but Rapidash would still pull well overall, since Charm/bulb/squirtle (especially squirtle) show up kind of under-levelled.

[Deck Knight]

The Nidos should also be OU in Yellow since they learn Double Kick at Level 12 there and still have all the versatility of RB. Nidoran Male in particular gets two 60+ power moves by level 12 (Horn Attack and Double Kick).

[Mekkah**]

I appreciate the help but

Without Mankey, Brock pretty much owns you in yellow as Pikachu and everyone else will be useless against Brock's Geodude and Onix.

Butterfree.

If you trade your pikachu to Pokemon stadium, you can get Surf. If you then trade pikachu to Red/Blue and evolve to Raichu there, you can get yourself a surfing Raichu with thunderbolt. That alone makes pikachu better then jolteon or any other electric in the game. And if you have surf on pikachu, you don't need any water types as pikachu can serve as this. Surfing pikachu owns the first 2 Elite 4 members by himself.

and you have to trade to get Machamp

Pikachu is allowed to be traded to Stadium and back while you also have to go through something really annoying there to get Surf on him, and also getting to Red/Blue to evolve, but Machoke doesn't get a simple back-and-forth trade to trigger his evolution? What kind of double standard are you applying? Pikachu can't evolve in Yellow and doesn't learn Surf in Yellow, that's a point against him.

Charmander is next because out of the 3 starters that you can get, it's the easiest to obtain. Bulbasaur requires you to make Pikachu really happy, while Squirtle requires you to beat Lt. Surge first. With Charmander, you just have to speak to him.

You're going to be beating Lt Surge anyway or you can't advance. It just means you get Squirtle after 3 gyms and Charmander after one (or as you're saying, two). Pikachu will be fairly happy with you by the time you're at Misty anyway.

By the time you face Erika, you should be close to having Charizard (if you don't already), and can use HM fly. Once you have Charizard, you don't need any other flying type.

Yes, but only after some massively annoying handholding. Charmander comes even more underleveled than pre-Misty Bulbasaur, and you have to feed on the wild Oddish/Bellsprout or something to make it good, because most of the trainers to the east just beat him (Geodude and Slowpoke have type advantage, and about everything else just has a higher level and you won't win against them without a lot of Potioning). There's a girl with four Grass Pokemon to the east of Cerulean on the road to Rock Tunnel, but they all know Sleep Powder/Stun Spore/Poisonpowder. Charmander isn't easy to train at all.

Pidgey up there imo, and maybe Pidgeotto as well (you can catch them at L9 in Viridian Forest, though rare, but then again so is Dugtrio, and going through Diglett Cave isn't even needed to complete the game). Bad movepool, but still great all day long. Fly makes a fine subsitute for Drill Peck, which Spearow/Fearow don't even get that quickly.

And yeah, Nido's. Versatile, help against Brock, Double Kicking Meowth + Rattata is awesome, Water Gun TM, very quick final evolution.

[sarunibi]

Ok, let me explain since it seems like I am using double standards...

If you don't go through the trouble of trading, then Pikachu is below Spearow, Mankey, and Pidgey. Pikachu is still the only pokemon to learn thunderbolt which was a huge deal back in the Kanto days (Electabuzz was troublesome to try and catch and even still, thunderpunch was nothing compared to thunderbolt). The physical attacks that it could learn were also pretty decent (Mega Punch for example). And Pikachu is still the best choice to taking out Misty quickly.

Now if you do go through the trouble of trading, then you have to count Machamp and it becomes the best fighter. With trading, Machamp is the best. Without, it's Mankey/Primeape. If you go through the trouble of trading, then pikachu is at the top. But just to make it simple, I'll make another list that doesn't include training to be fair.

Pidgey
Mankey
Spearow
Pikachu
Nidos
Rattata
Diglett/Dugtrio
Squirtle
Charmander/Bulbasaur

Pidgey, Mankey, and Spearow due to how early you pick them up, ease of use, and overall movepool from the beginning to the end. Pikachu is below them due to overall being faster then most things in the game, and being the only one that can get thunderbolt without a tm. Also could learn a decent amount of moves. Nido's everyone has brought up. Rattata for being a "jack of all trades" pokemon. Diglett/Dugtrio for being a kickass ground type with great speed.

The Kanto starters are a bit more tricky when I go back and think about it. Squirtle is now #1 out of the three due to the availability of water types this early in the game (your only other choice is magikarp either from the magikarp guy before Mt. Noon or fishing for one in Vermillion), and the versatility of water types in general (surfing and ice beam). Bulbasaur has competition from both Oddish and Bellsprout who carry an advantage of starting out with a grass move that actually does damage. You don't have to use Bulbasaur with 2 other pokemon to choose from. Charmander has competition from Pidgey and Spearow since the main things that you would be using Charmander for (grass and bugs) you can use a flying type for. However, you won't get another fire type till much later in the game.

[Chill Murray]

Something to know about D/P HM Slaves: between Pelipper and Bibarel, you can get 7 of the 8 TMs with two Pokemon. Pelipper learns Surf, Fly, and Defog, while Bibarel can learn everything but Fly and Defog. On my current Diamond run, I'll be running a Rock Climb/Strength/Cut/Rock Smash Bibarel, with my Floatzel picking up Waterfall.

However, if you're starting with Piplup, your Empoleon will probably have Surf anyway. In that case, it might be advisable to use a Cut/Fly/Defog Driftblim along with a Waterfall/Rock Climb/Strength/Rock Smash Bibarel. This is a bit worse than the first combo, though, since you'll have to level up your Driftblim a bit more than your Wingull.

[Pneuma]

A better D/P HM Slave combo is Bibarel (Surf/Waterfall/RockClimb/Cut) and Aerodactyl (Fly/Fog/RockSmash/Str). All 8 of 8 can be used between them and Aerodactyl is easy to dig up underground (although it's probably better to just use some lv2 starly for Fly/Fog Clear and some filler for RockSmash/Str).

[X-Act]

Or Zubat instead of Starly, which mysteriously learned how to fly in DP!

[Mekkah**]

I think competition isn't a very big issue, especially when comparing Pokemon that can be obtained at around the same time. We don't rank Farfetch'd lower in competitive Pokemon just because Staraptor, Dodrio, etc all outclass it - we rank it lower because it sucks.

But anyway, in case of Bulbasaur vs Oddish vs Bellsprout:
Bulbasaur
+ Leech Seed
+ Razor Leaf
- No Stun Spore
- Requires Pikachu use
- Sleep Powder doesn't come until the late 40s
- Level-based evolution

Bulbasaur evolves into Ivysaur two levels earlier than the other two, but if Pikachu isn't happy enough then Oddish and Bellsprout likely won't be behind much, if at all.

Oddish
+ Absorb (which owns Vine Whip with ease)
+ Leaf Stone evolution
+ Sleep Powder comes at L19 (evolves at L18, so cancel once)
+ Stun Spore at L17
- No Razor Leaf
- No Leech Seed

Also "Pedal Dance" according to Serebii, which has its uses: power against things you want to OHKO, after that you can just switch between the opponent's Pokemon, or live on because you were just killing a wild Pokemon.

Bellsprout
+ Leaf Stone evolution
+ Razor Leaf
+ Sleep Powder at L18
+ Stun Spore at L21
- No Leech Seed

Obviously Vine Whip sucks, but I already counted that as a pro for Oddish in the form of Absorb, since Bulbasaur has to cop with that as well, and then both get Razor Leaf later on.

So the way I see it, if Bulbasaur gets top tier in Yellow, then these two SURELY are top tier.

I don't want to take trading into account.

Pikachu is good early on, and Thunderbolt is pretty amazing obviously, but complete lack of an evolution with such base stats and easily being your most worthless Pokemon against Giovanni's gym (and one of the against Sabrina) is just gay. I'm not even sure with top tier, but sure, he's your only starter so theoretically his level lead just wins.

Squirtle is easy to replace. Super Rod lets you catch Staryu at Level 40.

I believe Super Rod only gets you those in GSC. I recall fishing up 20ish Pokemon with Super Rod in RBY.

[Chill Murray]

Originally Posted by Fat Pneuma

A better D/P HM Slave combo is Bibarel (Surf/Waterfall/RockClimb/Cut) and Aerodactyl (Fly/Fog/RockSmash/Str). All 8 of 8 can be used between them and Aerodactyl is easy to dig up underground (although it's probably better to just use some lv2 starly for Fly/Fog Clear and some filler for RockSmash/Str).

The thing is about Aerodactyl is that you need the National Dex to get it, and it's hard to find an Old Amber in the Underground. We're talking in-game, and you'll be done with the main story by the time you even get the chance to use it.

Pelipper, on the other hand, is relatively easy to obtain.

[Dragontamer]

Pikachu is good early on, and Thunderbolt is pretty amazing obviously, but complete lack of an evolution with such base stats and easily being your most worthless Pokemon against Giovanni's gym (and one of the against Sabrina) is just gay. I'm not even sure with top tier, but sure, he's your only starter so theoretically his level lead just wins.

I've done no-Pikachu runs in Yellow... now note that my memory may be bubbling over to Red and Blue catching locations... Fetch mankey, nidoran and a spearow. Oddish is enough to handle misty, and helps against Lt. Surge. Course, dugtrio helps a hell of a lot.

My fastest speed run was exploiting the mew glitch in Yellow, getting a Level 10 Mew before Misty. The only requirement is to catch an abra with teleport, and you can exploit the glitch. Obviously, mew should be something like uber tier in Yellow... essentially two-hits every pokemon with Psychic and OHKOs the vast majority of them.

So yeah, in terms of a speed run... get Mankey / Butterfree, beat Brock, level up in Mt. Moon, get Charmander, get Abra, get Mew, ditch Pikachu, level up in S. S. Anne, exploit mew glitch again and get a 2nd Mew, beat Misty then pwn the game.

Thats right, 2 mews before Misty.

[AJC]

Originally Posted by Fat WER

The thing is about Aerodactyl is that you need the National Dex to get it, and it's hard to find an Old Amber in the Underground. We're talking in-game, and you'll be done with the main story by the time you even get the chance to use it.

Pelipper, on the other hand, is relatively easy to obtain.

its possable to get the N-dex before beating the main game granted you have to diliberally lose against the E4 to do it

when thats done you can start digging up the other fossils and old amber hell i got anorith in diamond before i got the my first after main game pokemon

[infernovia]

We are assuming no glitch I believe.

I am not sure if its the same for yellow but since Lt. Surge only opens up fly HM, I think you can continue the game without beating him and then come by later.

Also, if you are using squirtle, I also want to point out that you can leave the celadon gym until after you can get TM ice beam without problem. Squirtle can take down a lot of people still (granted you get support from Dugtrios) if you don't do the gym in order.

[Pneuma]

The thing is about Aerodactyl is that you need the National Dex to get it

Forgot about that, so disregard. I guess you wouldn't really be pressed for space in party anyway since you're only using 2-3 pokemon max.

[Alienjesus]

piplup is in no way a top tier in game diamond and pearl pokemon. (i know i used it). its movepool consists of mostly weak moves that run of its lousy base attack, it levels up seemingly slower then the other starters, and it needs babying a lot of the time as its only good moves are bubble and bubblebeam until you get the ice beam tm....near the 7th gym. its steel typing makes it lose to the e4 infernape ( and take surprisingly large damage from the rapidash too), and makes it simply die to garchomp, who you would be wanting to ice beam with empoleon.

when highlightd of your movepool include bide, and unstabbed peck (and at a much later level, drill peck) and brine, which is a less pp bubblebeam in nearly all cases, its simply not worth it. catch a marill/buizel/remoraid/magikarp/random one of diamond and pearls other 70 water types instead if you want to breeze through the game, this guys meant for the long haul imo

[Dilasc]

In Yellow, you can cheat Pikachu's happiness up by giving a fully healed one a potion. It won't use the potion yet it will get happier so you can keep doing it right after you take your potion out of the PC and feed a fully healed Pikachu over and over again.

I'm not sure if this'd count as cheating though.

Also, you can get a Machamp in Yellow. Unfortunately, you need to catch a Cubone if I remember right. Trade the Cubone for the girl's machoke and it'll evolve as its trade. Of course, Cubones are hard to find and they need the Sliph Scope first, and even then they're rather uncommon.

[Mekkah**]

Glitch abuse is not considered legit. We're also not talking speed runs, just normal runs where you don't want to do a shitload of babying. Basically, if you would want to measure the quality in sheer numbers, you'd have to take into account playing time, # of Pokecenter visits, total level-ups or EXP gained, money left, and, though really hard to keep track of, combat performance and maybe # of total faints.

- Also underleveled Machamp would be kind of annoying in Yellow but remember it has traded EXP to counter that. Plus the time you get Cubone is also the time Machop is available (Rock Tunnel) so it doesn't matter all that much - just that you get evolved stats for more levels in trade for not having him in your team for less time. Fair trade, since in the end the Machoke won't become a Machamp.

The huge problem with that is that the timing for Machop/Machamp in Yellow is absolutely horrible.
- Saffron? Even against the Fighting gym, bad against Team Rocket (Zubat, Golbat, Koffing, Weezing, Ekans, Arbok, and then neutral against things like Magnemite), somewhat bad against Gary (Alakazam, Exeggcute and Pidgeot all would love to fight Machamp), overall tie against Giovanni and lolJesseJames (Meowth/Persian/Kangaskhan/Onix/Rhyhorn mixed in with Nido's, Arbok and Weezing)...and then Sabrina's Psychic gym where he gets raped, and Koga's Poison gym (with lots and lots of Grimer/Muk/Koffing/Weezing on the Bike Road btw), and then he is overall neutral against Blaine and the final version of Giovanni, and sucks against the Elite Four. Oh, did I mention Machamp's STAB sucks?

EDIT: anyone else feel free to do a D/P tier list (Good, Okay, Bad is the best way of splitting them imo). Even though I haven't played the game, I doubt Piplup is bad or anything. It's your starter so he'll have a level advantage. And I severely doubt that its EXP required to level-up is higher than for Chimchar/Turtwig since they're like the same class of Pokemon.

[MegaMewtwo]

I'm sorry for not really adding anything to this discussion, but why was Surfing Pikachu only mentioned for Yellow? You can get Surf on it in Red/Blue the same way. Then again, the whole trading it to a game with a Lv100 team is kinda longwinded and inconvenient. Just saying that it's not a Yellow exclusive.

[Zenigame]

Originally Posted by Fat Mood4food77

well i know for a fact, DP

OU
starly
shinx
starters
bronzor
bidoof

bidoor is a HM slave

Piplup is a terrible choice in-game. He learns nothing valuable until you're pretty far in the game, when you have the option of betters (Quagsire).

[Mood4food77]

but i mean

if you choose him, i'm pretty sure something like 90% of players will keep him on the team

[Deck Knight]

Deck's DP List:

God:
Bidoof (this is a joke)

Good:

Turtwig
Chimchar
Piplup
Starly
Shinx
Budew
Zubat
Geodude
Drifloon

OK:
Abra
Gastly
Cranidos
Gible
Bronzor
Meditite
Aipom
Heracross
Munchlax

Crap:

Everything Else.


Logic:

OK, The starters win for level advantage primarily. Torterra learns EQ at Level 32 and since Heart Scales only require a little pounding in the underground, you can get Wood Hammer too if you want.

Infernape rapes everything like it usually does.

I have no experience with Piplup, but Empoleon has an awesome defensive typing for random enemies and can use Surf quite readily.

Staraptor is just godly. Close Combat, Return, and Brave Bird waste everything.

Despite Shinx's low BP moves, a LOT of enemies are weak to Spark, Intimidate is a great ability, and Luxray is an all around awesome pokemon in-game. Getting it early doesn't hurt any.

Abra requires some level of babying to be effective. Gastly can't hit the ever-present Bidoof and Starly for a while until you buy a Thunder TM at Veilstone. The Gible line suffers from the fact that Dragon Rage starts awesome and then has diminishing returns, and they don't learn EQ without a TM. You have to know where the secret entrance to the cave inder the bike path is, but that is a minor problem. Bronzor has an unholy defensive typing and Extrasensory. It's tough to level it up but Bronzong is near-unkillable. Drifloon comes at a high level relative to your other pokemon and you can angineer your capture of it to get good stats.

Cranidos starts with Headbutt, has an immense 125 base attack (more than Staraptor and Luxray) is a perfect candidate for the Rock Slide TM, and Rampardos just steamrolls everything in game. Of course, Cranidos only helps Diamond users. Sheildon blows. Aipom, Munchlax, and Heracross require copius amounts of luck to get and don't get levels with parity. Meditite and Medicham can be found in enough places and again, Heart Scales are easy to get so Medicham gets a lot of attack diversity.

The DP Bugs suck. None of them get Sleep powder.

[Mekkah**]

if you choose him, i'm pretty sure something like 90% of players will keep him on the team

Yes, because it'd be a pretty big waste of EXP and such and because he will be slightly better than whatever else you can catch at the very moment. But I mean, it's not about that, it's about whether that Pokemon is helping you a lot or not.

[E=mc^2]

Murkrow/ Honchkrow deserves a mention. Poor speed, but helps in Gardenia, Maylene, Fantina, Aaron, Lucian and kills many neutral pokemon too. It also evolves, despite the speed reduction, and its attack is quite impressive. U can't catch it as early as starly, but sometimes, insomia also helps a bit.

[Chou Toshio]

I think Gyarados should be at least ok in D/P if not good. Sure it's a bitch to raise magikarp, but D/P has the pretty cool point of having Gyara as a COMMON find with super rod, at level like 40-ish. Sounds good to me! Along with intimidate, ability to use HMs (including the ass-kicking waterfall, and the fairly decent in-game strength) it has got utility, bulk for long journeys, and power. It also has a pretty damn good run agains the E4, having flying type advantage against bugs, super effective STAB against Ground and Fire, and fairing decently against Cynthia and her Garchomp (I learn ice fang naturally ftw!).

Like in every gen (except G/S/C, I miss free Red 'Dos . . .) Gyara take a bit of work to add to your team (somewhat underleveled after super rod, raising karp is a bitch), but once its on . . . man its on. Particularly this one, because waterfall and strength completely compensate for its overall crappy natural movepool, and DD + Ice fang are a big help too. Even has aqua-fang if you're raising it before you get waterfall.