Smogon's First "Create a Pokemon": Poll 4

[dragonsyth1]

this was orignally posted in the art one as a response to soy-monks drawing(which i REALLY like btw):

maybe an ability like frosslasses, forgot name...the moves id think of for this would be(keeping in mind its a bug/ice MIXED sweeper):
-megahorn
-blizzard
-ice shard
-bug buzz
-u-turn
-ice beam
-tail glow(this does have a tail anyways, and infernape has nasty plot why not tail glow on this?)
-sucker punch
-power gem/stone edge
maybe a grass/electric move, but hidden power can handle that, it shouldnt be able to counter all its weaknesses with its movepool.

with base stats something like this:
70 hp, 100-120 att, 70-90 def(looking at its armored legs, but that may make it a little to good if it can take hits like that), 100-120 sp att, 60-70 sp def, 100+speed

i heard someone say it looks slow but i dont see how it looks slow really. and i see people are trying to give it gem like parts to support the special idea, but look at other special users. most just have a ball of w/e it is apear between their hands and they shoot it(gengar, infernape, many more).

weaknesses:
4x fire
2x flying
4x rock
2x steel

resistances:
.5x grass
.5x ice
.5x ground

with all others hitting neutral.

[eric the espeon]

Originally Posted by Fat dragonsyth1

this was orignally posted in the art one as a response to soy-monks drawing(which i REALLY like btw):

maybe an ability like frosslasses, forgot name... (snow cloak?) the moves id think of for this would be(keeping in mind its a bug/ice MIXED sweeper):
-megahorn
-blizzard
-ice shard
-bug buzz
-u-turn
-ice beam
-tail glow(this does have a tail anyways, and infernape has nasty plot why not tail glow on this?) i cant see that tail glowing
-sucker punch (mabe not)
-power gem/stone edge (mabe not)
maybe a grass/electric move, but hidden power can handle that, it shouldnt be able to counter all its weaknesses with its movepool.
leave it to hiden power

with base stats something like this:
70 hp, 100-120 att, 70-90 def(looking at its armored legs, but that may make it a little to good if it can take hits like that), 100-120 sp att, 60-70 sp def, 100+speed
how much speed? 115? other than that it looks good

i heard someone say it looks slow but i dont see how it looks slow really. and i see people are trying to give it gem like parts to support the special idea, but look at other special users. most just have a ball of w/e it is apear between their hands and they shoot it(gengar, infernape, many more).

weaknesses:
4x fire
2x flying
4x rock
2x steel

resistances:
.5x grass
.5x ice
.5x ground

with all others hitting neutral.

[Hyra]

Yeah, Cooper, I realize you are trying to keep the Base Stat polls together. Its just that Ability affects Base Stats which affects Appearance (how many powerful Pokemon would you like to pick up and hug?) which in turn affects Ability. I understand this cycle has to start somewhere.

I just feel that with Magic Guard on the table as an ability and with a change as drastic as being 4x weak to Stealth Rock to being immune as possibilies, knowing the Ability would help the makers of Base Stats know how to lean. I'm probably going to go for low HP anyways, its a Bug type. I just don't want to either under utilize its defences expecting it to be losing 1/2 its health just for switching in or give it attack stats that are broken with Magic Guard.

Whatever, though. HP =/= Defense, so as long as I keep my HP low, I could probably have something with workable defenses either way.

[Gothic Togekiss]

Originally Posted by Fat Hyra

(how many powerful Pokemon would you like to pick up and hug?)

Azelf, Uxie, Mespirt, Celebi, Jirachi, Mew, Shaymin?

[Deck Knight]

Originally Posted by Fat Hyra

Yeah, Cooper, I realize you are trying to keep the Base Stat polls together. Its just that Ability affects Base Stats which affects Appearance (how many powerful Pokemon would you like to pick up and hug?) which in turn affects Ability. I understand this cycle has to start somewhere.

I just feel that with Magic Guard on the table as an ability and with a change as drastic as being 4x weak to Stealth Rock to being immune as possibilies, knowing the Ability would help the makers of Base Stats know how to lean. I'm probably going to go for low HP anyways, its a Bug type. I just don't want to either under utilize its defences expecting it to be losing 1/2 its health just for switching in or give it attack stats that are broken with Magic Guard.

Whatever, though. HP =/= Defense, so as long as I keep my HP low, I could probably have something with workable defenses either way.

I look at it the other way. You can have mediocre defenses and a great HP stat and have more overall durability. If you're using a pokemon 4x weak to rock then stop whining about losing HP and bring a spinner. Claydol eats Rock attacks for breakfast and Blastoise and Starmie laugh off fire. I'd go for 100+ Base HP simply because 101HP Subs > Blissey all the time. Even if you don't opt for the mighty Sub option, you still take attacks better in general, and have the luxury to switch into a larger variety of attacks.

Magic Guard seems idiotic for an Ice/Bug type. Snow Cloak, Ice Body, Compoundeyes and Swarm are all reasonable abilities. You might even be able to get away with Water Absorb depending on where the pokemon lives. Technician might even work (Technician Silver Wind and Ice Shard ouchies). Nonetheless we should at least keep it reasonable. There's no reason for this to have Magic Guard or Flash Fire if it's getting 540-550 Base stats.

[Hyra]

Originally Posted by Fat Deck Knight

I look at it the other way. You can have mediocre defenses and a great HP stat and have more overall durability. If you're using a pokemon 4x weak to rock then stop whining about losing HP and bring a spinner. Claydol eats Rock attacks for breakfast and Blastoise and Starmie laugh off fire. I'd go for 100+ Base HP simply because 101HP Subs > Blissey all the time. Even if you don't opt for the mighty Sub option, you still take attacks better in general, and have the luxury to switch into a larger variety of attacks.

Magic Guard seems idiotic for an Ice/Bug type. Snow Cloak, Ice Body, Compoundeyes and Swarm are all reasonable abilities. You might even be able to get away with Water Absorb depending on where the pokemon lives. Technician might even work (Technician Silver Wind and Ice Shard ouchies). Nonetheless we should at least keep it reasonable. There's no reason for this to have Magic Guard or Flash Fire if it's getting 540-550 Base stats.

I find it is harder to keep Stealth Rock off the field than it is to get it back on. Also, 101 Subs < Blissey with Flamethrower, which is a as common as the old Blissey now. Also, 100 Base HP / 100 Base Atk / 100 Base Special Atk. Either this thing is going to have horrible defenses, or those defenses won't matter because its too slow to hit anything that wants to kill it. I'm also assuming worst case scenario, as I said, I find it easier to use Stealth Rock than to remove it.

I will agree with you on the Magic Guard thing. In fact, I requested Cooper to keep Magic Guard from going on the spread I submitted. It would make the Pokemon so overpowered. I also like 100% accurate Megahorn and 91% accurate Blizzard with Compound Eyes. This is enough compensation for the Stealth Rock weak, because it takes two of the most devastating moves in the game much more accurate. Hm... Wow, I just realized that if my spread had some justification for Thunder, it would be countered by Regice and Dusknoir only (of the Pokemon I can think of off the top of my head).

[Deck Knight]

Originally Posted by Fat Hyra

I find it is harder to keep Stealth Rock off the field than it is to get it back on. Also, 101 Subs < Blissey with Flamethrower, which is a as common as the old Blissey now. Also, 100 Base HP / 100 Base Atk / 100 Base Special Atk. Either this thing is going to have horrible defenses, or those defenses won't matter because its too slow to hit anything that wants to kill it. I'm also assuming worst case scenario, as I said, I find it easier to use Stealth Rock than to remove it.

I will agree with you on the Magic Guard thing. In fact, I requested Cooper to keep Magic Guard from going on the spread I submitted. It would make the Pokemon so overpowered. I also like 100% accurate Megahorn and 91% accurate Blizzard with Compound Eyes. This is enough compensation for the Stealth Rock weak, because it takes two of the most devastating moves in the game much more accurate. Hm... Wow, I just realized that if my spread had some justification for Thunder, it would be countered by Regice and Dusknoir only (of the Pokemon I can think of off the top of my head).

Ice/Bug < Flamethrower anyway, it hardly matters. Sub will at least tell you what kind of Blissey it is, and stops non FT versions.

My submitted stat distribution didn't have 100 attack. It actually had 80/120 Atk/SA because as a general rule balanced mediocre stats suck, 80 is enough to Focus Punch and use STAB off of, and we don't want to make this thing a glorified Heracross. Moreover, Ice heavily favors special attack since Ice Punch is crap on most Dragons since they have higher defense and the only special-based bug worth much right now is Venomoth (<3 Veno). Bug Buzz is essentially a Bug-type Psychic and also fills the roll well. There also aren't many SR users who enjoy taking a STAB Blizzard to the face, so our little Bug will probably keep most of them off the field. HP Fire can ward off Forry.

Moreover, mediocre-crap defenses never kept some things from being OU. Weavile's type is arguably worse than our Ice/Bug and my suggested spread (PM) has far more cumulative defenses than Weavile. Alakazam was popular last gen and Lucario and Azelf are around despite their questionable defenses. Infernape also has rather bland defenses and it is everywhere.

I mean really, most sweepers in OU don't break 80/80/80. The one I sent in was 105/65/75, which is passable enough for switching into resists and good for taking generic non-SE special attacks.

[Mario With Lasers]

Originally Posted by Fat Hyra

Also, 100 Base HP / 100 Base Atk / 100 Base Special Atk. Either this thing is going to have horrible defenses, or those defenses won't matter because its too slow to hit anything that wants to kill it.

100/100/60/100/60/120, 540 Total. Well, whatever.

Originally Posted by Fat Hyra

Hm... Wow, I just realized that if my spread had some justification for Thunder, it would be countered by Regice and Dusknoir only (of the Pokemon I can think of off the top of my head).

And Heatran. And maybe Jirachi.

[Dilasc]

What if it's ability switched weaknesses and resistances? It'd have a quad resistance to rock and fire, as well as resists to flying and steel (lol) and in exchange would be weak to ground and ice, which are both very common types, moreso than fire and rock if I'm not mistaken. Grass is there too, though it probably won't be heavy enough to feel much sting from Grass Knot.

[blastoiselover100]

It needs good enough stats to make up for the shitty typing. The ablility is somewhat relevant to its stats at this point. Good ability if it has crappy stats, okay ability with okay stats, and lame ability with good stats. I say we give it 95/115/75/125/85/105 with Snow Cloak, Snow Warning, or Swarm.

[Cooper]

Too bad BST 600 isn't going to win....

[Hyra]

Meh, maybe I went overboard, given it Blaziken-esque attack stats and nice Speed. But, I still don't see HP helping you too much. Substitute on something that can potentially lose half its health, you must be planning for an ability like Shiver. I don't see large HP working on this thing.

To Mario w/Lasers, I really like the coverage EQ/Ice/Bug gives. So that means Heatran and Jirachi are no longer counters. I was thinking on physical walls that take neutral from all attacks, Dusknoir (and maybe Spiritomb) is the only one with enough SDef to not be 2HKO'd by Blizzard. Of course, any Water or Ice type can still switch in and realiably counter it. When Thunder is added, only the Ice-type is left that can reliably counter this, meaning Thunder would make it over the top.

Of course, my guy has the lowest HP of any fully evolved Bug. He also has Azelf like defense stats. This means it basically takes one decent hit to stop his rampage.

tl;dr: I feel that this thing should be almost gamebreaking offensively, in order to compensate for the weakness. You don't see anyone complaining about Bellyzard, and what can reliably counter that?

[SkaterTrainer]

Originally Posted by Fat Lord_Sunday

Yeah I closed my eyes and clicked.

I did the same =p I pressed 600 in that manner.

[blastoiselover100]

Originally Posted by Fat Cooper

Too bad BST 600 isn't going to win....

You are running this thing, so you could ultimately choose what happens. I know that sounds corrupt, but who the hell is voting on those crappy stat totals?!?!

[Gothic Togekiss]

Originally Posted by Fat blastoiselover100

You are running this thing, so you could ultimately choose what happens. I know that sounds corrupt, but who the hell is voting on those crappy stat totals?!?!

Blame the typing, not the stat spread =P

[Hyra]

Originally Posted by Fat blastoiselover100

It needs good enough stats to make up for the shitty typing. The ablility is somewhat relevant to its stats at this point. Good ability if it has crappy stats, okay ability with okay stats, and lame ability with good stats. I say we give it 95/115/75/125/85/105 with Snow Cloak, Snow Warning, or Swarm.

Originally Posted by Fat Cooper

Too bad BST 600 isn't going to win....

Originally Posted by Fat blastoiselover100

You are running this thing, so you could ultimately choose what happens. I know that sounds corrupt, but who the hell is voting on those crappy stat totals?!?!

I believe Cooper was responding sarcastically to the first post, making your outburts very inappropriate. Also, it would be very out of character for Cooper to do something like that.

[blastoiselover100]

Well, I just do not want this thing to suck. What is the point of creating a pokemon that sucks?

[TaiwaneseDude]

How do you know it will suck with less base stats? Many OU pokemon have a lowish base stat and are doing fine in the metagame..

Besides, this Pokemon isn't even real.. -.- You can't really constitute it saying it will "suck." >.>

[Bologo]

Originally Posted by Fat blastoiselover100

Well, I just do not want this thing to suck. What is the point of creating a pokemon that sucks?

Heh Smeargle has a 250 base stat total. That's awful, but Smeargle doesn't suck at all. Plus the point of creating a pokemon that sucks is so that it can evolve.

[blastoiselover100]

The only reason Smeargle does not suck is because it can learn EVERY MOVE IN THE GAME!

[Hyra]

Originally Posted by Fat Bologo

Heh Smeargle has a 250 base stat total? That's awful, but Smeargle doesn't suck at all. Plus the point of creating a pokemon that sucks is so that it can evolve.

no, Bologo, no. Smeargle does notneed to evolve.

In othernews, My proposed set only has guaranteed 2HKO's on Porygon 2 and below on the defensive side with Megahorn (no typings included, Max/Max+) and on Driftloon and below on the special defensive side with Blizzard (no typings included, Min/Min). In other words, not as bad as I thought.

[eric the espeon]

Well, I just do not want this thing to suck. What is the point of creating a pokemon that sucks?

what about heracross that has a low base stat total (less than 500) and its still OU

[Deck Knight]

Originally Posted by Fat eric the espeon

what about heracross that has a low base stat total (less than 500) and its still OU

If you discount the existence of SA and only assume 5 stats exist and use Base 600s as your standard bearer (now Base 500s), Hera has stats along the level of 460 out of 500 rather than 500 out of 600. If you bumped Hera up to average SA (80), it would have 540 Base stats.

Steelix would probably shoot up to the very top of OU if it dropped its SA down to 40 and put the 15 points into SD (moving it up to 80.)

[futuresuperstar]

You know, we could give this thing Wonder Guard. It packs enough of a punch to hit hard against the things that can't touch it while still having plenty of weaknesses. Meanwhile, it actually laughs at Ground / Ice and a lot of special walls.

[Yoko Rains]

Awesome, 540-559 wins. Whats the next step dude?