(Tournament) The OFFICIAL ASB Singles Tournament #1 Thread - Page 3

Spenstar · May 25th, 2011, 5:43:06 PM

How long does Smash have to post my battle against Shadoo?

C$FP · May 29th, 2011, 5:10:04 PM

I second the seconding of the seconding of the seconding of the seconding of the no coin-flip idea, despite the fact that this coin-flip is helping me quite a bit in my match - it is totally unfair.

Spenstar · May 29th, 2011, 5:30:55 PM

The alternative, however, is merely a predictions game, and whoever loses the mindgame similarly loses the entire match. I have a different proposal: trainers enter with all four of their Pokemon, but can only use two in the battle. The difference is that all four Pokemon are on the table, meaning that if a trainer loses the coin-flip or the mindgame, they're not quite as stuck as they would be if they only could bring 2 mons into each match. The matches would still be 2v2 singles, but this allows for some more flexibility on the part of the individual, flexibility which could save an entire match.

Tortferngatr · May 29th, 2011, 5:45:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Spenstar

The alternative, however, is merely a predictions game, and whoever loses the mindgame similarly loses the entire match. I have a different proposal: trainers enter with all four of their Pokemon, but can only use two in the battle. The difference is that all four Pokemon are on the table, meaning that if a trainer loses the coin-flip or the mindgame, they're not quite as stuck as they would be if they only could bring 2 mons into each match. The matches would still be 2v2 singles, but this allows for some more flexibility on the part of the individual, flexibility which could save an entire match.

I second this motion. This is what I originally thought it would be like.

Darkamber8828 · May 29th, 2011, 5:48:53 PM

Third'd. Winning by skill>winning by 50/50 chances

Flamestrike · May 29th, 2011, 5:49:05 PM

I personally like Spenstar's idea, or even send 3 and pick 2 (which according to standard ASB rules is how a 2v2 is supposed to be done anyway). I feel like sending in your starter out of the two blind is just as random as to who gets screwed over as a coin flip. Like pointed out above, at least with send 3/4 and pick 2 if you get screwed over on the first matchup you can make up for it later (though of course your opponent can counter your second mon if he gets the first KO and you're probably still screwed regardless, but the only way to fix that would be to make it switch=ok).

EDIT: Double-ninjaed >.>

TravelLog · May 29th, 2011, 5:50:25 PM

Fifth'd. Even having been knocked out, i think this is a good idea

Solstice · May 30th, 2011, 5:53:23 PM

After 14 days this is supposed to go into sudden death, is that 14 days from when this was posted or from when our match was posted? My battle was posted 2 days late and still hasnt had the first update so Im assuming it will be going into sudden death and I want to make sure I know when.

Terrador · May 30th, 2011, 7:09:57 PM

Sixth'd on Spenstar's suggestion. All 4 mons should be on the table for Rounds 2, 3, 4, and 5.

Spenstar · May 30th, 2011, 7:11:09 PM

I'm so glad people agree with my idea. Is that how the tourney's going to work for future rounds or do we need to confirm this with someone first?

C$FP · May 30th, 2011, 7:13:20 PM

The problem with Spenstar's idea is that the person who loses the coin toss will probably be at an even greater disadvantage. The person who sends out second has more options to be super-effective, having their entire arsenal to choose from. So, the loser of the coin toss will probably lose the first match-up, and the same applies for the second match-up. I do like the idea of bringing all four Pokemon (after all, everyone will always choose their best two otherwise, leaving the others useless), but we should still have to say who our lead is ahead of time. I'm sorry if I am not clear in what I am saying, but over all I think we should bring all four and choose the lead ahead of time.

Spenstar · May 30th, 2011, 7:18:40 PM

Choosing the lead ahead of time offers the same problems, because the entire match would then come down to a single pre-match mindgame. A blind lead pick would yield rather poor results and a pre-battle mindgame is something I'd want to stay away from. A possible solution would be to have the ref RNG the lead for each trainer, and give whoever has a matchup disadvantage the ability to attack second in round one. But either way, it seems that disadvantageous matchups in the beginning of the battle that decide how it turns out is inevitable. Having your entire team on the table allows the victim of this to not be backed into a corner quite as badly as he would be with only 2 mons on the table.

C$FP · May 30th, 2011, 7:22:54 PM

Yeah, I guess I will seventh your idea. There is really just no right way to do this.

Spenstar · May 30th, 2011, 7:29:36 PM

Trust me, I really wish there was a right way to go with this, a way to avoid bad matchups, but short of making the match switch = OK, there's nothing we can do :/

Temperantia · May 30th, 2011, 8:03:47 PM

Eighth-ing Spenstar's idea. The way it is now pretty much makes your two unused Pokemon window decorations, as you'll always use the two with the best synergy if you pick your team blind to your opponent.

Flamestrike · May 30th, 2011, 10:22:37 PM

Literally the only way to prevent the person sending out second to get a massive advantage is to make it switch=ok to at least give the person sending out first a chance to get a favourable matchup. The simple fact of the matter is that no matter how we do it, if it's switch=ko then either 1) whoever sends out second gets a massive advantage or 2) whoever is luckier choosing their lead blindly gets a massive advantage. At least with bring 3/4 pick 2 you give the person sending out first a chance to make up for it.

Spenstar · Jun 1st, 2011, 2:38:06 PM

...I feel I have to ask. What's the problem with switch=OK for tournament matches? We've been referring to that so far as a last resort that we don't want to take, but why is that?

DarkSlay · Jun 1st, 2011, 3:03:17 PM

Okay, just as a quick update.

ON CHANGING THE COIN FLIP:

Yeah, we can try something else for the second round. To be honest, I still feel like it's six and one half of change where something will always be "off", but if people think the current system is too unfair, we can try something else. I'll talk to Engineer and smash about it and we'll keep you posted.

ON SWITCH=KO TO OK:

There is nothing wrong with Switch=OK in tourney settings. However, this is simply just a Switch=KO tourney. Tourneys in the future are free to implement whatever format they want. It just so happens that this tourney is Switch=KO, that is all. We will not be switching that.

Engineer Pikachu · Jun 1st, 2011, 3:26:09 PM

I'm fine with changing the coinflip.

Pikapwnd · Jun 1st, 2011, 4:08:11 PM

What if it went something like this, I'm not in the tournament I'm observing but I do have an idea.

Matchups are posted along with who goes 1st/2nd

and people who go 1st sends 3 pokemon to the ref.

people who go 2nd send 2 pokemon to the ref.

This gives them as much as possible of an advantage from what i can see, this gives the people who go third another option against the opponent.

~~shadowbone66~~ · Jun 2nd, 2011, 4:52:54 PM

Uh. What happens if a Ref fails to post within the Sudden Death duration?

smashlloyd20 · Jun 3rd, 2011, 11:27:42 PM

I have an unfortunate announcement to make.

As I said on IRC this afternoon, my computer broke for a day but it was an easy fix. Unfortunately, it broke again and the tech estimates it will take over a month to get fixed. While this happens I'm relegated to my iPod, which can only browse one window at a time.

Translation; I can post, I might have IRC, but no reffings. I need subs.

I'm really sorry.

Engineer Pikachu · Jun 6th, 2011, 9:17:26 PM

ANNOUNCEMENT

Due to various factors, the coinflip system has been abolished. The PM system will remain the same, however; we'll see how well this works next round. If you have won your match, send in two Pokemon to us for the next round. The first Pokemon listed will be simultaneously sent out with the first Pokemon your opponent sent me in his/her list of two. Other minor rules will be described in the matchup post. Thank you.

Spenstar · Jun 13th, 2011, 10:15:40 PM

wait, is it true that we're not allowed to use our tourney Pokemon outside the tourney at all?!

Flamestrike · Jun 13th, 2011, 10:17:27 PM

Yes. Yes it is. That's two of my three matches out the window, one of which was my awesome time-travelling match with Tort.

May 25th, 2011, 5:43:06 PM	#51
Spenstar Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,138 New York	How long does Smash have to post my battle against Shadoo? __________________ My team of awesome! 22:20 Terrador wow 22:21 Terrador You just found a use for Rage. 22:21 Terrador Congratulations. 22:21 Spenstar yes, yes I did 8) 22:21 UllarWarlord applause

May 29th, 2011, 5:10:04 PM	#52
C$FP Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 4,349	I second the seconding of the seconding of the seconding of the seconding of the no coin-flip idea, despite the fact that this coin-flip is helping me quite a bit in my match - it is totally unfair. __________________ My CAP ASB Team [23:35] <Jesseus> <Glacier> im not frunk [23:36] <Glacier> jessues whered the d go [21:25] <Pwnemon> look at kax vs cmfp, iar vs cmfp, pwnemon vs cmfp [21:25] <Pwnemon> none of us had teams that by rights should have lost [21:25] <Pwnemon> but he's cm fucking p

May 29th, 2011, 5:30:55 PM	#53
Spenstar Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,138 New York	The alternative, however, is merely a predictions game, and whoever loses the mindgame similarly loses the entire match. I have a different proposal: trainers enter with all four of their Pokemon, but can only use two in the battle. The difference is that all four Pokemon are on the table, meaning that if a trainer loses the coin-flip or the mindgame, they're not quite as stuck as they would be if they only could bring 2 mons into each match. The matches would still be 2v2 singles, but this allows for some more flexibility on the part of the individual, flexibility which could save an entire match. __________________ My team of awesome! 22:20 Terrador wow 22:21 Terrador You just found a use for Rage. 22:21 Terrador Congratulations. 22:21 Spenstar yes, yes I did 8) 22:21 UllarWarlord applause

May 29th, 2011, 5:48:53 PM	#55
Darkamber8828 Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 2,695 i taste good but NO NO DON'T	Third'd. Winning by skill>winning by 50/50 chances __________________ Darkamber8828: Taunt is pokemon-cussing, right? DarkSlay: Nah. I thought it was more of the tounge sticking out kind of thing that pisses off people. DarkSlay: Not Pokemon actually cussing out one another. DarkSlay: "AYE FUCK YOU SKARMORY" (23:31:48) +RankingBot: Your rank in Standard LC is 1/415!

May 29th, 2011, 5:49:05 PM	#56
Flamestrike Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 2,573	I personally like Spenstar's idea, or even send 3 and pick 2 (which according to standard ASB rules is how a 2v2 is supposed to be done anyway). I feel like sending in your starter out of the two blind is just as random as to who gets screwed over as a coin flip. Like pointed out above, at least with send 3/4 and pick 2 if you get screwed over on the first matchup you can make up for it later (though of course your opponent can counter your second mon if he gets the first KO and you're probably still screwed regardless, but the only way to fix that would be to make it switch=ok). EDIT: Double-ninjaed >.> __________________ Nuzlocke Thread! The latest update for my Diamond challenge is here CAP ASB Team

May 29th, 2011, 5:50:25 PM	#57
TravelLog Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 918 USA	Fifth'd. Even having been knocked out, i think this is a good idea __________________ My CAP ASB team and Reffing Profile

May 30th, 2011, 5:53:23 PM	#58
Solstice Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 1,221 In a cold pizza induced euphoria	After 14 days this is supposed to go into sudden death, is that 14 days from when this was posted or from when our match was posted? My battle was posted 2 days late and still hasnt had the first update so Im assuming it will be going into sudden death and I want to make sure I know when.

May 30th, 2011, 7:09:57 PM	#59
Terrador Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 3,008 One final hurrah before I depart.	Sixth'd on Spenstar's suggestion. All 4 mons should be on the table for Rounds 2, 3, 4, and 5.

May 30th, 2011, 7:11:09 PM	#60
Spenstar Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,138 New York	I'm so glad people agree with my idea. Is that how the tourney's going to work for future rounds or do we need to confirm this with someone first? __________________ My team of awesome! 22:20 Terrador wow 22:21 Terrador You just found a use for Rage. 22:21 Terrador Congratulations. 22:21 Spenstar yes, yes I did 8) 22:21 UllarWarlord applause

May 30th, 2011, 7:13:20 PM	#61
C$FP Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 4,349	The problem with Spenstar's idea is that the person who loses the coin toss will probably be at an even greater disadvantage. The person who sends out second has more options to be super-effective, having their entire arsenal to choose from. So, the loser of the coin toss will probably lose the first match-up, and the same applies for the second match-up. I do like the idea of bringing all four Pokemon (after all, everyone will always choose their best two otherwise, leaving the others useless), but we should still have to say who our lead is ahead of time. I'm sorry if I am not clear in what I am saying, but over all I think we should bring all four and choose the lead ahead of time. __________________ My CAP ASB Team [23:35] <Jesseus> <Glacier> im not frunk [23:36] <Glacier> jessues whered the d go [21:25] <Pwnemon> look at kax vs cmfp, iar vs cmfp, pwnemon vs cmfp [21:25] <Pwnemon> none of us had teams that by rights should have lost [21:25] <Pwnemon> but he's cm fucking p

May 30th, 2011, 7:18:40 PM	#62
Spenstar Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,138 New York	Choosing the lead ahead of time offers the same problems, because the entire match would then come down to a single pre-match mindgame. A blind lead pick would yield rather poor results and a pre-battle mindgame is something I'd want to stay away from. A possible solution would be to have the ref RNG the lead for each trainer, and give whoever has a matchup disadvantage the ability to attack second in round one. But either way, it seems that disadvantageous matchups in the beginning of the battle that decide how it turns out is inevitable. Having your entire team on the table allows the victim of this to not be backed into a corner quite as badly as he would be with only 2 mons on the table. __________________ My team of awesome! 22:20 Terrador wow 22:21 Terrador You just found a use for Rage. 22:21 Terrador Congratulations. 22:21 Spenstar yes, yes I did 8) 22:21 UllarWarlord applause

May 30th, 2011, 7:22:54 PM	#63
C$FP Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 4,349	Yeah, I guess I will seventh your idea. There is really just no right way to do this. __________________ My CAP ASB Team [23:35] <Jesseus> <Glacier> im not frunk [23:36] <Glacier> jessues whered the d go [21:25] <Pwnemon> look at kax vs cmfp, iar vs cmfp, pwnemon vs cmfp [21:25] <Pwnemon> none of us had teams that by rights should have lost [21:25] <Pwnemon> but he's cm fucking p

May 30th, 2011, 7:29:36 PM	#64
Spenstar Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,138 New York	Trust me, I really wish there was a right way to go with this, a way to avoid bad matchups, but short of making the match switch = OK, there's nothing we can do :/ __________________ My team of awesome! 22:20 Terrador wow 22:21 Terrador You just found a use for Rage. 22:21 Terrador Congratulations. 22:21 Spenstar yes, yes I did 8) 22:21 UllarWarlord applause

May 30th, 2011, 8:03:47 PM	#65
Temperantia Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,719	Eighth-ing Spenstar's idea. The way it is now pretty much makes your two unused Pokemon window decorations, as you'll always use the two with the best synergy if you pick your team blind to your opponent. __________________ Restless souls will put on their dancing shoes Mindless ghouls with lots of limbs to lose Illusionist Contortionist Tightrope walker tightening the noose

May 30th, 2011, 10:22:37 PM	#66
Flamestrike Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 2,573	Literally the only way to prevent the person sending out second to get a massive advantage is to make it switch=ok to at least give the person sending out first a chance to get a favourable matchup. The simple fact of the matter is that no matter how we do it, if it's switch=ko then either 1) whoever sends out second gets a massive advantage or 2) whoever is luckier choosing their lead blindly gets a massive advantage. At least with bring 3/4 pick 2 you give the person sending out first a chance to make up for it. __________________ Nuzlocke Thread! The latest update for my Diamond challenge is here CAP ASB Team

Jun 1st, 2011, 2:38:06 PM	#67
Spenstar Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,138 New York	...I feel I have to ask. What's the problem with switch=OK for tournament matches? We've been referring to that so far as a last resort that we don't want to take, but why is that? __________________ My team of awesome! 22:20 Terrador wow 22:21 Terrador You just found a use for Rage. 22:21 Terrador Congratulations. 22:21 Spenstar yes, yes I did 8) 22:21 UllarWarlord applause

Jun 1st, 2011, 3:03:17 PM	#68
DarkSlay Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 1,187 Location: CAP, C&C, or RMT!	Okay, just as a quick update. ON CHANGING THE COIN FLIP: Yeah, we can try something else for the second round. To be honest, I still feel like it's six and one half of change where something will always be "off", but if people think the current system is too unfair, we can try something else. I'll talk to Engineer and smash about it and we'll keep you posted. ON SWITCH=KO TO OK: There is nothing wrong with Switch=OK in tourney settings. However, this is simply just a Switch=KO tourney. Tourneys in the future are free to implement whatever format they want. It just so happens that this tourney is Switch=KO, that is all. We will not be switching that. __________________ [23:49:15] <orcinus> potato potato [23:49:16] <orcinus> that really [23:49:23] <orcinus> doesn't have the same effect as when you say it out loud

Jun 1st, 2011, 3:26:09 PM	#69
Engineer Pikachu take into the air... Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 6,139	I'm fine with changing the coinflip. __________________ [11:35] <Zarator> My friend always laugh at me for liking young girls [11:35] <Zarator> I am still within reasonableness^^ GP Team - VM for a check!

Jun 1st, 2011, 4:08:11 PM	#70
Pikapwnd Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 379 Logic Blows	What if it went something like this, I'm not in the tournament I'm observing but I do have an idea. Matchups are posted along with who goes 1st/2nd and people who go 1st sends 3 pokemon to the ref. people who go 2nd send 2 pokemon to the ref. This gives them as much as possible of an advantage from what i can see, this gives the people who go third another option against the opponent. __________________ This is pokemon, not life or death.

Jun 2nd, 2011, 4:52:54 PM	#71
~~shadowbone66~~ Banned deucer. Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 279 And then there were none...	Uh. What happens if a Ref fails to post within the Sudden Death duration?

Jun 3rd, 2011, 11:27:42 PM	#72
smashlloyd20 Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 2,814 Erry day im HEAD SMASHING	I have an unfortunate announcement to make. As I said on IRC this afternoon, my computer broke for a day but it was an easy fix. Unfortunately, it broke again and the tech estimates it will take over a month to get fixed. While this happens I'm relegated to my iPod, which can only browse one window at a time. Translation; I can post, I might have IRC, but no reffings. I need subs. I'm really sorry. __________________ Ten million fireflies

Jun 6th, 2011, 9:17:26 PM	#73
Engineer Pikachu take into the air... Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 6,139	ANNOUNCEMENT Due to various factors, the coinflip system has been abolished. The PM system will remain the same, however; we'll see how well this works next round. If you have won your match, send in two Pokemon to us for the next round. The first Pokemon listed will be simultaneously sent out with the first Pokemon your opponent sent me in his/her list of two. Other minor rules will be described in the matchup post. Thank you. __________________ [11:35] <Zarator> My friend always laugh at me for liking young girls [11:35] <Zarator> I am still within reasonableness^^ GP Team - VM for a check!

Jun 13th, 2011, 10:15:40 PM	#74
Spenstar Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,138 New York	wait, is it true that we're not allowed to use our tourney Pokemon outside the tourney at all?! __________________ My team of awesome! 22:20 Terrador wow 22:21 Terrador You just found a use for Rage. 22:21 Terrador Congratulations. 22:21 Spenstar yes, yes I did 8) 22:21 UllarWarlord applause

Jun 13th, 2011, 10:17:27 PM	#75
Flamestrike Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 2,573	Yes. Yes it is. That's two of my three matches out the window, one of which was my awesome time-travelling match with Tort. __________________ Nuzlocke Thread! The latest update for my Diamond challenge is here CAP ASB Team