Rarely Used (RU) Tier - Page 72

Amire · Sep 17th, 2011, 12:34:02 PM

Yanmega, Porygon Z and Cress all gets walled by Mandibuzz. Specs Yanmega and scarfed Porygon both fails to 2HKO it and you can easily toxic stall them. It has also no problem taking a + 2 ice beam from cress and can just knock off it's leftovers and toxic it. If it's behind a sub, just whirlwind it away. It's for sure one of the best walls in RU, especially with Blastoise leaving the tier when it updates. Hopefully it's gonna get some love again then. Beware of CB Druddigon, CB entei and Medicham though.

Any sashed poke/pokemon with sturdy easily beats Yanmega as long as stealth rock is off the field.

Zephyr · Sep 17th, 2011, 1:15:27 PM

Yeah Entei is no doubt good, but at the moment I don't think it stands a chance at being banned. Maybe in the future.

Honko · Sep 17th, 2011, 1:52:40 PM

The only thing that's really obviously broken is Yanmega. I don't like this attitude where people are assuming we have to ban four things right away and several more right after that. The fewer bans, the better. Right now, Cresselia, Venomoth, Porygon-Z, Honchkrow, Entei, etc, are not auto-bans in my book. They're major threats, and we may end up banning some of them, but let's please not go in with the attitude that all the major threats must be broken. The top Pokemon actually do a pretty solid job of keeping each other in check.

Zephyr · Sep 17th, 2011, 2:11:59 PM

Well in my experience the only thing obviously broken to me is Cresselia. So it really comes down to playstyle differences and personal experiences. I myself don't find Yanmega too amazing, where as you apparently do. So we'll see once the suspect testing starts where everything stands at a majority rather than everyones own specific opinions. I personally only think Cresselia and Yanmega have a chance at being banned right away anyway.

**Molk** · Sep 17th, 2011, 2:26:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Zephyr

Well in my experience the only thing obviously broken to me is Cresselia. So it really comes down to playstyle differences and personal experiences. I myself don't find Yanmega too amazing, where as you apparently do. So we'll see once the suspect testing starts where everything stands at a majority rather than everyones own specific opinions. I personally only think Cresselia and Yanmega have a chance at being banned right away anyway.

I personally dont find anything except honch and yanmega broken, never had a problem with anything else. Really, everytime i face/use either i think they are more broken.

Zephyr · Sep 17th, 2011, 2:41:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat MoltenKyurem

I personally dont find anything except honch and yanmega broken, never had a problem with anything else. Really, everytime i face/use either i think they are more broken.

Yeah, so like I said: It really comes down to playstyle, teamatchup, and personal experience differences on what we determine to be broken at the moment. It's really a matter of waiting for the actual testing to begin that we can get a majority of people into the discussion and voting before we can see the bigger metagame offenders.

DTC · Sep 17th, 2011, 3:23:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Amire

Yanmega, Porygon Z and Cress all gets walled by Mandibuzz. Specs Yanmega and scarfed Porygon both fails to 2HKO it and you can easily toxic stall them. It has also no problem taking a + 2 ice beam from cress and can just knock off it's leftovers and toxic it. If it's behind a sub, just whirlwind it away. It's for sure one of the best walls in RU, especially with Blastoise leaving the tier when it updates. Hopefully it's gonna get some love again then. Beware of CB Druddigon, CB entei and Medicham though.

Any sashed poke/pokemon with sturdy easily beats Yanmega as long as stealth rock is off the field.

Scarf Porygon-Z is pretty awful. It should either be running Specs or some boosting set. Also +1 Ice Beam 2HKO's Mandibuzz so Mandibuzz doesn't "wall" porygon-Z.

The sturdy pokemon "argument" applies for EVERY pokemon in the game. So it's a pointless argument, especially when hazards are very common and focus sash isn't that good.

New World Order · Sep 17th, 2011, 3:39:07 PM

Yanmega can 2HKO pretty much all of RU just by slapping on a Choice Specs, using Tinted Lens, and clicking Bug Buzz. It requires no skill whatsoever. Even if you manage to keep Stealth Rock on the field. A Yanmega player only needs 3 chances to win. Once before SR is set up, where it can put a dent into its check/ counter, once on the first switchin, where it puts its check/ counter into kill range, and one last time to finally plow through its check/ counter and proceed to solo your team.

Ningildo · Sep 17th, 2011, 4:32:18 PM

With the counter situation I see your point, but as checks often are faster pokemon to revenge the threat, that argument isn't really valid. Thyplosion and Entei can force it out and dent the switch in, so essentially, you use the same strategy against Yanmega.
Does this mean you have no skill whatsoever if you do this? Just wondering.

Foxy Grandpa · Sep 17th, 2011, 4:37:38 PM

Munchlax > Yanmega nuff' said.

Anyways, I've been trying some new strategies in RU and it seems like not too much can handle the combo of Druddigon and Zweilous' Outrages. Even Steelix has to be careful because of Earthquake / Fire Fang. I'll have to do some more testing though.

Zephyr · Sep 17th, 2011, 4:42:03 PM

DragMag will always be somewhat effective where it can be pulled off. If you're careful you can easily capture things like Steelix and remove them, and then fire off STAB Dragon attacks.

Amarillo · Sep 17th, 2011, 5:29:49 PM

If you want to look at 'broken set of strategies' more than the 'brokenmons' themselves, look no further than rain dance teams. (I'm putting these broken in quotes because I don't quite believe them to be broken just yet, but people disagree on what's the definition of broken. Rain Dance teams have been a big force in DPP UU, and with BW RU shaping up like DPP UU Lite, I can't help but seeing the viability of Uxie/Kabutops/Ludicolo/etc type of straightforward Rain Dance team... and they've gone completely under the radar. Look at the usage chart!

To contribute to the Yanmega discussion, I don't believe Yanmega to be broken. The thing is, people always talk about Tinted Lens Mega for its power, but speed boost for the ease of revenge kill. Specs Tinted Lens Mega is incredibly easy to revenge if you're playing offense, and if you're playing defense, you should invest in a dedicated special wall anyways, let it be munchie, clefable, lickytung, audino or whatever. (lolaudino) We all know speed boost mega ain't so broken because when the argument for banning comes up, people somehow never talk about the speed boost variant--they all know that bug buzz+air slash isn't the BEST coverage ever, and there's too many counters.

Zephyr · Sep 17th, 2011, 5:35:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Amarillo

If you want to look at 'broken set of strategies' more than the 'brokenmons' themselves, look no further than rain dance teams. (I'm putting these broken in quotes because I don't quite believe them to be broken just yet, but people disagree on what's the definition of broken. Rain Dance teams have been a big force in DPP UU, and with BW RU shaping up like DPP UU Lite, I can't help but seeing the viability of Uxie/Kabutops/Ludicolo/etc type of straightforward Rain Dance team... and they've gone completely under the radar. Look at the usage chart!

I completely agree. They're especially dangerous if you don't have a defensive based team, since most offensive team's dont particularly prepare for Rain Dance. (Even worse because most great Swift Swimmers like Kabutops have come to RU after being disallowed in conjunction to Politoed in OU)

Foxy Grandpa · Sep 17th, 2011, 7:38:49 PM

After doing some preliminary testing, rain is REALLY good in RU its kind of ridiculous. After making a generic team of Kabutops Ludicolo Uxie Munchie Galvantula and Electrode its really powerful. Nothing really walls it and can absorb its hits and recover it off so it's a very viable playstyle.

Pwnemon · Sep 17th, 2011, 8:00:16 PM

Personally, I've never had a problem with rain.

bluemon · Sep 17th, 2011, 8:07:43 PM

ive never even SEEN RAIN.
and why would you use galvantula? thunder is good outside of rain so id rather abuse rain with something else.

Amarillo · Sep 17th, 2011, 8:17:44 PM

Mainly, people don't realize that rain's even really strong because people don't go out of their way to build a rain team in RU--I mean, it makes logical sense: many people that play RU are here BECAUSE the BW OU Metagame is stained with rain&sand, UU with hail. (I'm not, but seems to be the consensus here). If you don't think rain is good, go out there and play a few games with a generic Rain Dance team! Main checks to swift swimmers include Ferroseed, Blasty, and generic special walls for pure special sets, but main Rain Abusers all have one way or another to muscle through some of them. It seriously does not disappoint.. especially Kabutops.

(Tip: your rain team will naturally need counters to Electric-types, and you need to make sure to counter Speed Boost Yanmega with a rain support mon. (and preferably SB Sharpedo as well) Otherwise you'll be in deep shit as soon as rain is down.)

Pwnemon · Sep 17th, 2011, 8:38:31 PM

Is anyone interested in writing a collab Smog article with me on an intro to RU? I know I'm not the very best to do an article, which is why I want another mind or two on this (Preferably one of the better players)

No Luck Involved · Sep 17th, 2011, 8:40:08 PM

I think Oglemi already did an intro to RU article?

Pwnemon · Sep 17th, 2011, 8:41:05 PM

see, this is why I ask these things. I thought I checked thoroughly....

EDIT: Okay, so I went and checked. Oglemi's article isn't really what I was looking for, his is more of a threat list, while I was going to make a team building thread.

No Luck Involved · Sep 17th, 2011, 8:48:48 PM

I'm sure there's room for another one once RU settles a bit after suspect tests ;)

bluemon · Sep 17th, 2011, 10:26:02 PM

i would run a sharpedo of my own on a rain team. just a thought.

lanturn seems like a good poke in rain. might even counter yanmega with a 252 hp 252 special defense set. havent done the calcs though.

SharKing · Sep 17th, 2011, 10:44:45 PM

Sharpedo can be pretty damn dangerous in Rain. After 2 turns, it outspeeds all Swift Swimmers, and with the Rain boost, that Hydro Pump is gonna hurt, hurt, hurt.

Ningildo · Sep 17th, 2011, 10:57:11 PM

So in other words, it is a rain check?
Awesome.
Also, I made a mental note that when facing Yanmega, keep them rocks up.
Or life will become hell.

moonbound · Sep 17th, 2011, 11:20:57 PM

I like using phione to set up rain. It's main advantage is hydration rest so it can keep coming in to set up rain. I run max speed max hp with damp rock and rain dance/rest/uturn/waterfall.

Sep 17th, 2011, 1:15:27 PM	#1777
Zephyr Life Stream Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,325 Detroit, Michigan	Yeah Entei is no doubt good, but at the moment I don't think it stands a chance at being banned. Maybe in the future. __________________ Your values is a disarrayed, prioritizing horribly Unhappy with the riches cause your piss poor morally Ignoring all prior advice and fore warning, and mighty full of ourselves all of a sudden aren't we?

Sep 17th, 2011, 1:52:40 PM	#1778
Honko pronounced "Honko" Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 1,023	The only thing that's really obviously broken is Yanmega. I don't like this attitude where people are assuming we have to ban four things right away and several more right after that. The fewer bans, the better. Right now, Cresselia, Venomoth, Porygon-Z, Honchkrow, Entei, etc, are not auto-bans in my book. They're major threats, and we may end up banning some of them, but let's please not go in with the attitude that all the major threats must be broken. The top Pokemon actually do a pretty solid job of keeping each other in check. __________________

Sep 17th, 2011, 2:11:59 PM	#1779
Zephyr Life Stream Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,325 Detroit, Michigan	Well in my experience the only thing obviously broken to me is Cresselia. So it really comes down to playstyle differences and personal experiences. I myself don't find Yanmega too amazing, where as you apparently do. So we'll see once the suspect testing starts where everything stands at a majority rather than everyones own specific opinions. I personally only think Cresselia and Yanmega have a chance at being banned right away anyway. __________________ Your values is a disarrayed, prioritizing horribly Unhappy with the riches cause your piss poor morally Ignoring all prior advice and fore warning, and mighty full of ourselves all of a sudden aren't we?

Sep 17th, 2011, 3:39:07 PM	#1783
New World Order The Baby Arcanine All Grown Up :') Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,897 Edmonton	Yanmega can 2HKO pretty much all of RU just by slapping on a Choice Specs, using Tinted Lens, and clicking Bug Buzz. It requires no skill whatsoever. Even if you manage to keep Stealth Rock on the field. A Yanmega player only needs 3 chances to win. Once before SR is set up, where it can put a dent into its check/ counter, once on the first switchin, where it puts its check/ counter into kill range, and one last time to finally plow through its check/ counter and proceed to solo your team. __________________ RAWRGRAWRAWWRARRWRAARGRAWWRAWWRAR

Sep 17th, 2011, 4:32:18 PM	#1784
Ningildo Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 649 Aruba	With the counter situation I see your point, but as checks often are faster pokemon to revenge the threat, that argument isn't really valid. Thyplosion and Entei can force it out and dent the switch in, so essentially, you use the same strategy against Yanmega. Does this mean you have no skill whatsoever if you do this? Just wondering. __________________ Wild School appeared! School used Homework! Ningildo's activity fell!

Sep 17th, 2011, 12:34:02 PM	#1776
Amire Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 47	Yanmega, Porygon Z and Cress all gets walled by Mandibuzz. Specs Yanmega and scarfed Porygon both fails to 2HKO it and you can easily toxic stall them. It has also no problem taking a + 2 ice beam from cress and can just knock off it's leftovers and toxic it. If it's behind a sub, just whirlwind it away. It's for sure one of the best walls in RU, especially with Blastoise leaving the tier when it updates. Hopefully it's gonna get some love again then. Beware of CB Druddigon, CB entei and Medicham though. Any sashed poke/pokemon with sturdy easily beats Yanmega as long as stealth rock is off the field.

Sep 17th, 2011, 4:37:38 PM	#1785
Foxy Grandpa Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 165 mmm...Foxy	Munchlax > Yanmega nuff' said. Anyways, I've been trying some new strategies in RU and it seems like not too much can handle the combo of Druddigon and Zweilous' Outrages. Even Steelix has to be careful because of Earthquake / Fire Fang. I'll have to do some more testing though. __________________ Only really active on weekends due to school and wrestling and whatnot

Sep 17th, 2011, 4:42:03 PM	#1786
Zephyr Life Stream Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,325 Detroit, Michigan	DragMag will always be somewhat effective where it can be pulled off. If you're careful you can easily capture things like Steelix and remove them, and then fire off STAB Dragon attacks. __________________ Your values is a disarrayed, prioritizing horribly Unhappy with the riches cause your piss poor morally Ignoring all prior advice and fore warning, and mighty full of ourselves all of a sudden aren't we?

Sep 17th, 2011, 5:29:49 PM	#1787
Amarillo yellow! Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 713	If you want to look at 'broken set of strategies' more than the 'brokenmons' themselves, look no further than rain dance teams. (I'm putting these broken in quotes because I don't quite believe them to be broken just yet, but people disagree on what's the definition of broken. Rain Dance teams have been a big force in DPP UU, and with BW RU shaping up like DPP UU Lite, I can't help but seeing the viability of Uxie/Kabutops/Ludicolo/etc type of straightforward Rain Dance team... and they've gone completely under the radar. Look at the usage chart! To contribute to the Yanmega discussion, I don't believe Yanmega to be broken. The thing is, people always talk about Tinted Lens Mega for its power, but speed boost for the ease of revenge kill. Specs Tinted Lens Mega is incredibly easy to revenge if you're playing offense, and if you're playing defense, you should invest in a dedicated special wall anyways, let it be munchie, clefable, lickytung, audino or whatever. (lolaudino) We all know speed boost mega ain't so broken because when the argument for banning comes up, people somehow never talk about the speed boost variant--they all know that bug buzz+air slash isn't the BEST coverage ever, and there's too many counters.

Sep 17th, 2011, 7:38:49 PM	#1789
Foxy Grandpa Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 165 mmm...Foxy	After doing some preliminary testing, rain is REALLY good in RU its kind of ridiculous. After making a generic team of Kabutops Ludicolo Uxie Munchie Galvantula and Electrode its really powerful. Nothing really walls it and can absorb its hits and recover it off so it's a very viable playstyle. __________________ Only really active on weekends due to school and wrestling and whatnot

Sep 17th, 2011, 8:00:16 PM	#1790
Pwnemon Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,009 Maryland	Personally, I've never had a problem with rain. __________________ [11:56pm] Pwnemon: statutory rape and all [11:56pm] bmelts: i have such a huge boner right now [9:28pm] Kadew: pwnemon that signature is like an x marking the spot of treasure, except instead of treasure its a pile of humorous garbage that turtles crapped out

Sep 17th, 2011, 8:07:43 PM	#1791
bluemon Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,498 ♠ AmoongBro ♠	ive never even SEEN RAIN. and why would you use galvantula? thunder is good outside of rain so id rather abuse rain with something else.

Sep 17th, 2011, 8:17:44 PM	#1792
Amarillo yellow! Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 713	Mainly, people don't realize that rain's even really strong because people don't go out of their way to build a rain team in RU--I mean, it makes logical sense: many people that play RU are here BECAUSE the BW OU Metagame is stained with rain&sand, UU with hail. (I'm not, but seems to be the consensus here). If you don't think rain is good, go out there and play a few games with a generic Rain Dance team! Main checks to swift swimmers include Ferroseed, Blasty, and generic special walls for pure special sets, but main Rain Abusers all have one way or another to muscle through some of them. It seriously does not disappoint.. especially Kabutops. (Tip: your rain team will naturally need counters to Electric-types, and you need to make sure to counter Speed Boost Yanmega with a rain support mon. (and preferably SB Sharpedo as well) Otherwise you'll be in deep shit as soon as rain is down.) Last edited by Amarillo; Sep 17th, 2011 at 8:30:07 PM.

Sep 17th, 2011, 8:38:31 PM	#1793
Pwnemon Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,009 Maryland	Is anyone interested in writing a collab Smog article with me on an intro to RU? I know I'm not the very best to do an article, which is why I want another mind or two on this (Preferably one of the better players) __________________ [11:56pm] Pwnemon: statutory rape and all [11:56pm] bmelts: i have such a huge boner right now [9:28pm] Kadew: pwnemon that signature is like an x marking the spot of treasure, except instead of treasure its a pile of humorous garbage that turtles crapped out

Sep 17th, 2011, 8:40:08 PM	#1794
No Luck Involved Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 1,301	I think Oglemi already did an intro to RU article?

Sep 17th, 2011, 8:41:05 PM	#1795
Pwnemon Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,009 Maryland	see, this is why I ask these things. I thought I checked thoroughly.... EDIT: Okay, so I went and checked. Oglemi's article isn't really what I was looking for, his is more of a threat list, while I was going to make a team building thread. __________________ [11:56pm] Pwnemon: statutory rape and all [11:56pm] bmelts: i have such a huge boner right now [9:28pm] Kadew: pwnemon that signature is like an x marking the spot of treasure, except instead of treasure its a pile of humorous garbage that turtles crapped out

Sep 17th, 2011, 8:48:48 PM	#1796
No Luck Involved Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 1,301	I'm sure there's room for another one once RU settles a bit after suspect tests ;)

Sep 17th, 2011, 10:26:02 PM	#1797
bluemon Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,498 ♠ AmoongBro ♠	i would run a sharpedo of my own on a rain team. just a thought. lanturn seems like a good poke in rain. might even counter yanmega with a 252 hp 252 special defense set. havent done the calcs though.

Sep 17th, 2011, 10:44:45 PM	#1798
SharKing Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 162 Rawr.	Sharpedo can be pretty damn dangerous in Rain. After 2 turns, it outspeeds all Swift Swimmers, and with the Rain boost, that Hydro Pump is gonna hurt, hurt, *hurt. __________________ SharKing's Friend Code Diamond: 1808 1520 9381 Black*: 0003 3803 2254

Sep 17th, 2011, 10:57:11 PM	#1799
Ningildo Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 649 Aruba	So in other words, it is a rain check? Awesome. Also, I made a mental note that when facing Yanmega, keep them rocks up. Or life will become hell. __________________ Wild School appeared! School used Homework! Ningildo's activity fell!

Sep 17th, 2011, 11:20:57 PM	#1800
moonbound Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 554 Let me teach you the secret of bodybuilding. First thing: Protein. Second thing: Protein.	I like using phione to set up rain. It's main advantage is hydration rest so it can keep coming in to set up rain. I run max speed max hp with damp rock and rain dance/rest/uturn/waterfall.