Pokemon Unfit for UU Analyses - Page 2

***Oglemi**** · Jun 6th, 2011, 2:24:37 PM

Yeah Arcanine is there

GtM · Jun 6th, 2011, 3:23:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat oizo 06

As Eelektross is already on this list, I'd like to suggest Electivire. Electivire has higher attack and speed, a better physical movepool, and Motor Drive can be really useful. I'm not saying that Eelektross is outclassed, as it has higher special attack, Coil and Levitate, but Electivire should be on this list as well.

I'd like to vouch from experience that Electric attacks are pretty damn rare in UU. Nidoking's Thunderbolt is just about the only one you'll find in the average game, although admittedly Electivire does better against Nidoking than Jolteon.

oizo 06 · Jun 6th, 2011, 4:10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat GtM

I'd like to vouch from experience that Electric attacks are pretty damn rare in UU. Nidoking's Thunderbolt is just about the only one you'll find in the average game, although admittedly Electivire does better against Nidoking than Jolteon.

Victini, Arcanine and Zapdos also use Electric moves, and they're all in the top 10 in the statistics.

zdrup15 · Jun 6th, 2011, 4:41:17 PM

Ok so I think there should be a few changes here:

Sawsbuck: ok this thing was on my team last round and it was very good without a doubt. However, without Drought support, it has neither the bulk to get the boost it NEEDS to sweep, or the Speed to revenge anything. So I think it just doesn't deserve an analysis for now.

Charizard: pretty much the same reason makes me bring Charizard. The only reason people used it was its ability Solar Power. However, without Drought support, Charizard doesn't have the necessary power (Solar Power provided it with the Specs boost it needed to hurt things). Its major weakness to Stealth Rock means a Choice item is pretty much unviable unless you carry a Rapid Spinner and, in that case, Moltres outclasses it completely by hitting harder and taking hits better (which means it has the opportunity to use Roost). So I think it should be removed.

Froslass: in a metagame that will have Hail as its main weather, Froslass deserves at least a Spiker set. It's fast and its ability means it will often get at least 2 layers, while also working as a spinblocker. With the top spinners being Donphan and Hitmontop (which doesn't run Sucker Punch that often on the spinners sets), Froslass can pretty much come in, threaten them out, and being to set up.

Moo · Jun 6th, 2011, 5:18:43 PM

Sawsbuck and Charizard need some time, because they might stay popular even with Drought gone.

And I agree about Froslass, Spin Blocker+Spiker is a cool role and Taunt+Dbond is just as cool.

**PK Gaming** · Jun 6th, 2011, 5:22:09 PM

Definitely disagree with Charizard. A standalone Sunny Day is still ridiculously effective and with sun support from another Pokemon the Choice Specs set is ridiculously strong.

Omicron · Jun 6th, 2011, 5:31:25 PM

Agree with PK on this, I've seen quite a few Sunny Day Charizard used to great effect. Also, seconding Froslass, Spikes+Taunt+Destiny Bond + spinblocking is just too good pass up...

sax king · Jun 6th, 2011, 5:34:57 PM

Regirock is a monster on SS teams. Curse is an amazing set that Registeel can't quite copy (no SDef boost, not as much Def) Definitely should be added.

Chou Toshio · Jun 6th, 2011, 6:02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Oglemi

I realize that Miltank can run more interesting sets, but there are so many better Pokemon atm, that there really isn't any reason to use Miltank (especially now that needing to tank a Sunny Day-boosted V-Create is less needed).

If you can provide some logs of Miltank in action, then maybe I'd reconsider. But, honestly, the time worth doing so would be better spent working on an analysis of one of the Pokemon on the priority list.

Actually, Milktank's bigger issue is competition with Slowbro/SlowKing... Same resistances (fire/ice), similar defensive stats and offensive (special v. physical). While Miltank needs to choose between the precious fire/ice resistances and the ability to hit everything with its STAB, Slowbro gets all of that just by typing, and Regenerator on top of it. Regenerator alone is generally a bigger selling point than Heal Bell. With Scald for STAB + Burn, Slowbro just generally makes for a better support Poke

As a stat-booster Slowbro get Calm Mind to cover his weaker special defensive side, better offensive STAB type (and 2 of them!) and a host of awesome coverage moves like Flamethrower/Fire Blast, Ice Beam and Grass Knot.

I've considered Miltank before, but I really couldn't justify using it over Bro or King.

prem · Jun 6th, 2011, 6:33:45 PM

anything on galvantula? most of the bulky pokes in UU right now are bulky waters and psychic types. galvantulas stab compoundeyes thunder and bug buzz take care of both of them , while he has energy ball for any quagsires trying to switch in

also he is not outclassed by jolteon because his life orb thunder does more damage than jolteons specs thunderbolt.

Diana · Jun 6th, 2011, 6:42:35 PM

Sawsbuck absolutely needs to stay. Sunny Day teams still work because Abomasnow is weak to Fire and Hippopotas is weak to Grass. Not to mention that there are weatherless teams in UU, not every team is going to have Abomasnow or Hippopotas anyway...

Chou Toshio · Jun 6th, 2011, 6:44:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Oglemi

EDIT: I didn't add Miltank because Slowbro > Miltank. And I didn't add Galvantula because I tried it myself and it's pretty underwhelming tbh.

Pretty much this.

Moo · Jun 6th, 2011, 6:54:17 PM

Yeah, I agree that it should get a priority analysis, but it should definetily get one in the future.

The3DOstrich · Jun 6th, 2011, 7:17:08 PM

I'd like to nominate Espeon for an analysis. Magic Bounce works quite well against defensive teams, and the ability to bounce back status is always a plus, as status inducers usually don't like being statused as well. It also bounces back entry hazards and incoming Taunts, so it doesn't fear using moves such as Calm Mind. It also makes a decent Dual Screener (though Uxie does it better) and can Baton Pass Calm Minds and Substitute's without fear of being Taunted. Its also has a great base 130 base special attack and a very good base speed of 110, so its perfectly capable of sweeping as well.

Edit: I'd also like to nominate Victreebel. He's a monster under the sun, and essentially functions as a less bulky but more offensively oriented Venusaur. Access to growth only helps it, as it can easily run either a mixed or purely special set. It also has access to Weather Ball, which operates at double BP under the sun, and means Victreebel needn't use Hidden Power Fire to hit Steels, allowing it to use another Hidden Power. It also has a decent support movepool as well, such as Stockpile, Knock Off, and Encore, which it can effectively set up thanks to its boosted speed under the sun.

And, just because it hasn't been mentioned, what about Vulpix? Sure, its bulk isn't fantastic with Eviolite, but its got an ok support movepool, and Drought allows you to give sweepers like Sawsbuck and Charizard abuse Chlorophyll and Solar Power respectively.

**Tobes** · Jun 6th, 2011, 7:34:43 PM

Urk, I was so excited about UU analyses that I didn't notice this.

So, I'll make cases for Exeggutor and Aggron. Exeggutor is one of the best supporters for Trick Room thanks to Sleep Powder, has a niche for Subseeding thanks to Harvest, and is quite threatening with Sunny Day or a Choice Specs set, especially due to Sleep Powder.

Aggron is pretty damn scary with a Choice Band thanks to Head Smash, 2HKOing at worst just about anything that doesn't resist it, and even some things that do. Metal Burst + Sturdy also gives it a niche over other Stealth Rock users.

EDIT: Self-locked my threads until approved to save the mods some trouble. Won't complain if I'm infracted.

***Oglemi**** · Jun 6th, 2011, 7:56:08 PM

K some things:

Espeon - I had/have it on the priority list for the Reservations thread, but I forgot to add it here. My bad.

Exeggutor - I agree. Go ahead

Aggron - This I'm not so sure about. I haven't tried it myself, but if someone else could vouch for its effectiveness and maybe add a couple logs I'll consider it. Those glaring weaknesses are hard to miss, and there is just too much stuff that is faster than Aggron this time around. It'll definitely get one later, so don't worry about that.

Galvantula - See Chou's post

Victreebel - Honestly, when I tried him with Drought I wasn't impressed. And, now with Drought gone, I don't see him being the best choice for a Sunny Day team. I would always choose Shiftry over Victreebel tbh (but that may be because I have a soft spot for Shiftry). In any case, I don't even have Shiftry on the priority list, so it'll take some major convincing for me to add Victreebel.

Vulpix - lol no Drought got banned.

Regirock - Rhyperior > Regirock. So no. I realize he plays differently, but he's really not good enough even with SS support.

Froslass - Yeah I agree.

Electivire - OK, I guess the tier is kind of lacking in physical Electric attacks. Also Motor Drive is an OK niche.

Omicron · Jun 6th, 2011, 8:11:10 PM

Shouldn't we hold off on Espeon to see if it becomes OU or not? Because I have a feeling that it is gonna turn out to be that way.

***Oglemi**** · Jun 6th, 2011, 8:13:24 PM

Yeah and it looked like Electivire and Dusknoir were going to be UU for like the last 4 rounds of OU in 4th gen. I'll still let Espeon to be written for now.

Omicron · Jun 6th, 2011, 8:32:46 PM

Good point... ok

Chou Toshio · Jun 6th, 2011, 8:45:44 PM

Victrebell is a no-go from me... weak bulk, slow :/

breh · Jun 6th, 2011, 9:32:04 PM

I'd like to add Jynx and Archeops (mostly because I want to add analyses of them, heh).

Jynx was previously outclassed by Kyurem, but is now one of Hail's premier sweepers with its ban. It's a very nice scarfer and now does not have to worry about anything but Sandslash and faster scarfers outspeeding. It can also run Nasty Plot very well.

Archeops is similar. It's fast, it's idiotically strong, and now it doesn't have to worry about anything outspeeding it at all, bar scarfed pokemon, unlike the Drought sweepers of last round. If scarfed pokemon (especially hail sweepers) begin to be problematic, a Scarf set (it can run Adamant and still outspeed most relevant pokemon) can be run at the cost of Acrobat.

***Oglemi**** · Jun 6th, 2011, 10:13:41 PM

You and FlareBlitz can push for Jynx all you want, I still don't think she's that impressive. Any priority wrecks her, Chansey walls the shit out of her, and she isn't particularly fast by the new UU standards. Maybe later when I see her in action.

Archeops I'll allow.

QuantumDerp · Jun 6th, 2011, 10:19:00 PM

Quick question, Kyurem was tiered in UU by the usage stats, is he still down here? If so he would be a monster in UU where he's actually pretty fast and deserves an analysis. Also an analysis for Accelgor is deserved as he makes a pretty good spikes lead.

***Oglemi**** · Jun 6th, 2011, 10:20:20 PM

Kyurem was banned and will not be in the tier ever again. Plus the ladder was just re-set, so have fun.

Also Froslass and Deoxys-D > Accelgor. So, no.

Delta 2777 · Jun 6th, 2011, 10:22:31 PM

Blastoise is a good bulky water and rapid spinner. He also got a nice buff in Dragon Tail.
Add?

Jun 6th, 2011, 5:18:43 PM	#30
Moo Professor Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 1,447	Sawsbuck and Charizard need some time, because they might stay popular even with Drought gone. And I agree about Froslass, Spin Blocker+Spiker is a cool role and Taunt+Dbond is just as cool. __________________ GP / UU QC, VM for check VM for a UU rate

Jun 6th, 2011, 5:22:09 PM	#31
PK Gaming Moderator Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 4,564 Sumuru city	Definitely disagree with Charizard. A standalone Sunny Day is still ridiculously effective and with sun support from another Pokemon the Choice Specs set is ridiculously strong. __________________

Jun 6th, 2011, 5:31:25 PM	#32
Omicron Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,040 Seattle, WA	Agree with PK on this, I've seen quite a few Sunny Day Charizard used to great effect. Also, seconding Froslass, Spikes+Taunt+Destiny Bond + spinblocking is just too good pass up... __________________

Jun 6th, 2011, 5:34:57 PM	#33
sax king Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 768 I'm not sick, but I'm not well	Regirock is a monster on SS teams. Curse is an amazing set that Registeel can't quite copy (no SDef boost, not as much Def) Definitely should be added. __________________ The 90's were awesome

Jun 6th, 2011, 6:33:45 PM	#35
prem failed abortion Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,222 <@Sarenji> anyway i learned knitting pretty fast <@Sarenji> because im a woman Mentor	anything on galvantula? most of the bulky pokes in UU right now are bulky waters and psychic types. galvantulas stab compoundeyes thunder and bug buzz take care of both of them , while he has energy ball for any quagsires trying to switch in also he is not outclassed by jolteon because his life orb thunder does more damage than jolteons specs thunderbolt. __________________ +Yamata no Orochi: I don't get pussy

Jun 6th, 2011, 2:24:37 PM	#26
*Oglemi they call me... THE OGLEBOMB Super Moderator** Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 5,572 ~(^.^)~	Yeah Arcanine is there

Jun 6th, 2011, 4:41:17 PM	#29
zdrup15 Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 1,723	Ok so I think there should be a few changes here: Sawsbuck: ok this thing was on my team last round and it was very good without a doubt. However, without Drought support, it has neither the bulk to get the boost it NEEDS to sweep, or the Speed to revenge anything. So I think it just doesn't deserve an analysis for now. Charizard: pretty much the same reason makes me bring Charizard. The only reason people used it was its ability Solar Power. However, without Drought support, Charizard doesn't have the necessary power (Solar Power provided it with the Specs boost it needed to hurt things). Its major weakness to Stealth Rock means a Choice item is pretty much unviable unless you carry a Rapid Spinner and, in that case, Moltres outclasses it completely by hitting harder and taking hits better (which means it has the opportunity to use Roost). So I think it should be removed. Froslass: in a metagame that will have Hail as its main weather, Froslass deserves at least a Spiker set. It's fast and its ability means it will often get at least 2 layers, while also working as a spinblocker. With the top spinners being Donphan and Hitmontop (which doesn't run Sucker Punch that often on the spinners sets), Froslass can pretty much come in, threaten them out, and being to set up.

Jun 6th, 2011, 6:42:35 PM	#36
Diana Fennekin the cutest Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,258	Sawsbuck absolutely needs to stay. Sunny Day teams still work because Abomasnow is weak to Fire and Hippopotas is weak to Grass. Not to mention that there are weatherless teams in UU, not every team is going to have Abomasnow or Hippopotas anyway... __________________ C&C work: 34 done, 2 partly done, finished 4th gen moveset errors

Jun 6th, 2011, 6:54:17 PM	#38
Moo Professor Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 1,447	Yeah, I agree that it should get a priority analysis, but it should definetily get one in the future. __________________ GP / UU QC, VM for check VM for a UU rate

Jun 6th, 2011, 7:17:08 PM	#39
The3DOstrich Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 167	I'd like to nominate Espeon for an analysis. Magic Bounce works quite well against defensive teams, and the ability to bounce back status is always a plus, as status inducers usually don't like being statused as well. It also bounces back entry hazards and incoming Taunts, so it doesn't fear using moves such as Calm Mind. It also makes a decent Dual Screener (though Uxie does it better) and can Baton Pass Calm Minds and Substitute's without fear of being Taunted. Its also has a great base 130 base special attack and a very good base speed of 110, so its perfectly capable of sweeping as well. Edit: I'd also like to nominate Victreebel. He's a monster under the sun, and essentially functions as a less bulky but more offensively oriented Venusaur. Access to growth only helps it, as it can easily run either a mixed or purely special set. It also has access to Weather Ball, which operates at double BP under the sun, and means Victreebel needn't use Hidden Power Fire to hit Steels, allowing it to use another Hidden Power. It also has a decent support movepool as well, such as Stockpile, Knock Off, and Encore, which it can effectively set up thanks to its boosted speed under the sun. And, just because it hasn't been mentioned, what about Vulpix? Sure, its bulk isn't fantastic with Eviolite, but its got an ok support movepool, and Drought allows you to give sweepers like Sawsbuck and Charizard abuse Chlorophyll and Solar Power respectively. __________________ ... Last edited by The3DOstrich; Jun 6th, 2011 at 7:41:44 PM.

Jun 6th, 2011, 7:34:43 PM	#40
Tobes Woo-hoo, woo-hoo-hoo, woo-hoo-hoo-woo-hoo-hoo-hoo! Moderator Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,274 GONER	Urk, I was so excited about UU analyses that I didn't notice this. So, I'll make cases for Exeggutor and Aggron. Exeggutor is one of the best supporters for Trick Room thanks to Sleep Powder, has a niche for Subseeding thanks to Harvest, and is quite threatening with Sunny Day or a Choice Specs set, especially due to Sleep Powder. Aggron is pretty damn scary with a Choice Band thanks to Head Smash, 2HKOing at worst just about anything that doesn't resist it, and even some things that do. Metal Burst + Sturdy also gives it a niche over other Stealth Rock users. EDIT: Self-locked my threads until approved to save the mods some trouble. Won't complain if I'm infracted. __________________

Jun 6th, 2011, 7:56:08 PM	#41
*Oglemi they call me... THE OGLEBOMB Super Moderator** Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 5,572 ~(^.^)~	K some things: Espeon - I had/have it on the priority list for the Reservations thread, but I forgot to add it here. My bad. Exeggutor - I agree. Go ahead Aggron - This I'm not so sure about. I haven't tried it myself, but if someone else could vouch for its effectiveness and maybe add a couple logs I'll consider it. Those glaring weaknesses are hard to miss, and there is just too much stuff that is faster than Aggron this time around. It'll definitely get one later, so don't worry about that. Galvantula - See Chou's post Victreebel - Honestly, when I tried him with Drought I wasn't impressed. And, now with Drought gone, I don't see him being the best choice for a Sunny Day team. I would always choose Shiftry over Victreebel tbh (but that may be because I have a soft spot for Shiftry). In any case, I don't even have Shiftry on the priority list, so it'll take some major convincing for me to add Victreebel. Vulpix - lol no Drought got banned. Regirock - Rhyperior > Regirock. So no. I realize he plays differently, but he's really not good enough even with SS support. Froslass - Yeah I agree. Electivire - OK, I guess the tier is kind of lacking in physical Electric attacks. Also Motor Drive is an OK niche.

Jun 6th, 2011, 8:11:10 PM	#42
Omicron Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,040 Seattle, WA	Shouldn't we hold off on Espeon to see if it becomes OU or not? Because I have a feeling that it is gonna turn out to be that way. __________________

Jun 6th, 2011, 8:13:24 PM	#43
*Oglemi they call me... THE OGLEBOMB Super Moderator** Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 5,572 ~(^.^)~	Yeah and it looked like Electivire and Dusknoir were going to be UU for like the last 4 rounds of OU in 4th gen. I'll still let Espeon to be written for now.

Jun 6th, 2011, 8:32:46 PM	#44
Omicron Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,040 Seattle, WA	Good point... ok __________________

Jun 6th, 2011, 8:45:44 PM	#45
Chou Toshio Hmmm... A name for the plan... Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 7,035 Sea Forest	Victrebell is a no-go from me... weak bulk, slow :/ __________________ "Hmmm... a name for this plan..."

Jun 6th, 2011, 9:32:04 PM	#46
breh Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 2,960	I'd like to add Jynx and Archeops (mostly because I want to add analyses of them, heh). Jynx was previously outclassed by Kyurem, but is now one of Hail's premier sweepers with its ban. It's a very nice scarfer and now does not have to worry about anything but Sandslash and faster scarfers outspeeding. It can also run Nasty Plot very well. Archeops is similar. It's fast, it's idiotically strong, and now it doesn't have to worry about anything outspeeding it at all, bar scarfed pokemon, unlike the Drought sweepers of last round. If scarfed pokemon (especially hail sweepers) begin to be problematic, a Scarf set (it can run Adamant and still outspeed most relevant pokemon) can be run at the cost of Acrobat. __________________ VGC Regionals: VGC11 Top 16, VGC12 12th Place

Jun 6th, 2011, 10:13:41 PM	#47
*Oglemi they call me... THE OGLEBOMB Super Moderator** Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 5,572 ~(^.^)~	You and FlareBlitz can push for Jynx all you want, I still don't think she's that impressive. Any priority wrecks her, Chansey walls the shit out of her, and she isn't particularly fast by the new UU standards. Maybe later when I see her in action. Archeops I'll allow.

Jun 6th, 2011, 10:19:00 PM	#48
QuantumDerp Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 76 Duelist Kingdom (You'll never find such a wretched hive of scum and villainy)	Quick question, Kyurem was tiered in UU by the usage stats, is he still down here? If so he would be a monster in UU where he's actually pretty fast and deserves an analysis. Also an analysis for Accelgor is deserved as he makes a pretty good spikes lead. __________________ Wishes dearly that Accelgor had Taunt. CAP ASB Team: More so I can find my battles than for you to look at my team

Jun 6th, 2011, 10:20:20 PM	#49
*Oglemi they call me... THE OGLEBOMB Super Moderator** Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 5,572 ~(^.^)~	Kyurem was banned and will not be in the tier ever again. Plus the ladder was just re-set, so have fun. Also Froslass and Deoxys-D > Accelgor. So, no.

Jun 6th, 2011, 10:22:31 PM	#50
Delta 2777 ก็็็็็็็็็็็็็ʕ•͡ᴥ•ʔ ก้้้้้้้้็็็็็็ Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,199	Blastoise is a good bulky water and rapid spinner. He also got a nice buff in Dragon Tail. Add?