General Metagame Discussion Thread

[shrang]

I actually think Ice Arceus is very underrated, mainly because of how much I love the Ice-typing in the Ubers. Offensively, I think it's even better typing that Dragon, since it hits so many walls for super effective damage instead of neutral. For example, Lugia can take a Dragon attack from Arceus, but cannot take Ice ones. Most of the good walls in Ubers are weak to Ice, namely Groudon, Giratina, Lugia, Ground Arceus. Ferrothorn gets hit for neutral (which is hard enough), and so does Dialga. Couple that with Thunder and something to hit Steels, it gets pretty hard to wall Ice Arceus without using Blissey. If it wasn't such a poor typing defensively, Ice Arceus could probably close to mid or even top tier, IMO.

[Aquasition]

A Special Zekrom and Reshiram are going to get released on this Saturday. They will have haze and mist respectively as special moves. I wonder if there are any good ways to make use of those moves(Probably not mist though, but haze, maybe)?

[locoghoul]

They are both garbage. I'd have liked to see them shiny at least.

[Dewhinifier]

Originally Posted by Fat Aquasition

A Special Zekrom and Reshiram are going to get released on this Saturday. They will have haze and mist respectively as special moves. I wonder if there are any good ways to make use of those moves(Probably not mist though, but haze, maybe)?

No. Zek would really have no use for haze seeing as it is a sweeper with one set relying on stat boosts. Putting it on a set would be equivalent of wasting a moveslot.

Agreed, garbage.

[ThePillsburyDoughBoy]

I've been having a lot of fun and success with an Endeavor Mamoswine. Set up SR then watch the magic of Endeavor bring an opponents key Pokemon to 1%, AKA death sentence with Stealth Rock. Even if Mamoswine doesn't get hit or it has 1 HP, you can still save it for latter to hit something again with Endeavor or use its handy dandy Ice Shard to kill off all the Dragons in the tier

[CottonPuff]

Originally Posted by Fat Banedon

Also about Shaymin-S, won't you need to Substitute + Leech Seed before you can start using Air Slash?

Not necessarily. If your opponet has a relatively healthly Dialga (or any steel type not named Ferrothorn/ Forretress for that matter) then just spamming Seed Flare+ Air Slash would be better, as it forces the switch and can actually beat its normal counters with a little luck. Your also assuming that Skymin only has one viable set; which it doesnt. Life Orb Skymin can easily beat all of the pokemon that trouble its sub-seed set, with the right combination of moves. Its something we more experienced players like to call strategy.

Originally Posted by Fat Banedon

That's two turns of set up and not something you're likely to get. With only one turn, if you use Substitute you get no damage vs. steel types / levitating types / already statused types / RestTalkers, while if you use Leech Seed then if you don't get a flinch you lose Shaymin-S.

I answered this already.

Originally Posted by Fat Banedon

Why not use Ironflinch Jirachi instead?

This statement was just ignorant. They are two completely different pokemon, and I hardly believe a question such as this derserves to be graced with an answer.

[superbadd]

DW lugia and Ho-oh are officially released! :D Along w/dialga, palkia and giratina!
Roost multiscale lugia FTW! Stall is served.

http://www.serebii.net/dreamradar/genivpokemon.shtml

[Joeyboy]

I don't know much about stall but it seems Soul Dew is totally legal now as of BW2.

Latias can finally return to counter Kyogre.

[mtr]

Haven't played mons in a while, but I heard that Ubers has a lot of gay mons now with Xatu and Blaziken around. Gonna go ahead and assume that stall teams are a lot less popular.

[Jibaku*]

Just started playing again today but I cant get anything conclusive with all the randoms flying around in the ladder. I'm going to assume that despite the huge new additions to the metagame things won't shift too much, with the old Spikestacking remaining pretty powerful (more reason to protect the hazards with Kyurem-W and Regen Ho-Oh on the loose).

Stuff to test:
- Ho-Oh
- Latias
- Tornadus-T
- Kyurem-W
- Kyurem-B (meh)
- SR Excadrill
- Roost Zekrom

Stuff I need to remind theorymon to test:
- Beartic

Mantheon's new icon sux

[mtr]

So basically I can get a team goin with textbook Ferrothorn/Kyogre/Tentacruel/Giratina-A etc and be good?


On second thought, Regenerator Ho-oh will probably be a lot of fun too. And it's really easy to make Ho-oh teams since they all look the same.

[ssbbm]

ok, i've come to the conclusion that sun is dead. there is seriously no pokemon that can check kyurem-w in the sun (it's hard enough to check in the rain, lol) so kyurem can basically use groudon as a free ko: 99% of the time, you can spam ice beam to 2hko (at least) the whole other team.

additionally, latias is really sexy obviously because it can actually take kyogre, although it's annoying how heatran and ofrry can set up on it easy /:.

[mtr]

I expect Scizor to make a comeback because of all the Kyurem/Lati@s around.

[alphatron]

Originally Posted by Fat ssbbm

ok, i've come to the conclusion that sun is dead. there is seriously no pokemon that can check kyurem-w in the sun (it's hard enough to check in the rain, lol) so kyurem can basically use groudon as a free ko: 99% of the time, you can spam ice beam to 2hko (at least) the whole other team.

additionally, latias is really sexy obviously because it can actually take kyogre, although it's annoying how heatran and ofrry can set up on it easy /:.

If its about checks and not counters, Ho-oh turns him into mincemeat if stealth rock isn't down. LO sacred fire ohko's 0/0 kyurem in sunlight. Ho-oh can take a Draco meteor as well. Regenerator should make this even easier for him.

[Furai]

Indeed, but you must have Stealth Rock off the field as, if I recall correctly, Choice Specs Kyurem-W does 57% max with Draco Meteor.

[ZetoTarken]

Timid does 70% min, Modest does 76%min its a BIT more than 50% on 232/0 Ho-oh. Max damage on those are about 85% 90% respectively. Ice beam does ~55%/60%(Timid/Modest) max though

[Furai]

Yeah my calculation was factoring an item-less Modest Kyurem-W against 248 HP / 84 SpD Ho-oh: 47.95 - 56.62% -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock. With Life Orb it's guaranteed after Stealth Rock, both Timid and Modest!

[mtr]

Thundurus is quite possibly the most homo Uber ever. I didn't even know he WAS an Uber, but those Thunders hurt, and a lot of my teams are weak to him haha.

I've been using the sample Sand Stall team (Rock Arceus), but with Mono CM Giratina over the wall set for a better matchup against stall. Still, there's just too many stallish teams out there, it's really annoying. The few offensive teams left are packed with mixed sweepers and Darkrais. :( I'll probably make an offensive team of my own.

[barry4ever]

This thread has been somewhat of a mess and isnt really a conducive environment to BW2 discussion. The Ubers moderators have decided to lock and start a new thread solely for BW2 Discussion. Thanks !