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[Furai]

Excadrill can be a good addition to a Sand Stall team. It basically takes the role of both Rapid Spinner and Revenge Killer, while also giving your team some sort of offensive stance. It revenges both Mewtwo—must be a bit weakened though—and Thundurus, that cannot Thunder Wave it.

[Garganator]

Originally Posted by Fat Poppy

Lol, truth be told nothing 'outclasses' Staraptor in what it does, Ho-Oh's larger SR weakness, speed, and power, all mean that Staraptor is a more immediate offensive force.

Or you may just run double 'Brave Bird' combo (taking into account how few things in Ubers resist Flying attacks) similar to for example Rayquaza + Salamence combo, although 2 heavy SR weak Pokemon is a massive problem, but it's workable with Magic Bounce/Rapid Spin (and good Giratina lure) and with Regenerator on Ho-Oh it's not as troublesome as before. Although I still prefer double Dragon (which is superior anyway), but double Flying can work with proper team support IMO.

[Anikrahman1995]

When I use Ho-Oh I have noticed that brave bird is almost mandatory on its moveset. Ho-Oh could not use Brave Bird before HG/SS. What was its moveset like before it had brave bird? Was it good? Could it deter Kyogre from switching in?

[mtr]

Pretty sure nobody played Ho-oh back then, but in the event that they did, usually Thunder or Toxic were involved. Some people (like me!) ran a Pressure Stall Ho-oh set with Toxic/Roost/Light Screen or Substitute/Sacred Fire

[Furai]

Ho-Oh was pretty much not used before HGSS, Brave Bird is what made it so common. I have to assume that it used Earthquake, because it is the second best attack that time it could run. Zen Headbutt and Return also come to consideration, but lol Giratina.

[ZetoTarken]

Pre-HGSS Ho-oh was Sacred Fire/EQ/Sub/Recover, EQ 2hko'd Kyogre easily, a choiced set with SF/EQ/Punishment/filler, or a Light Screen+Toxic stall set

[Urwurstnightmare]

Since both Giratina-A and Giratina-O both have the same pokedex number (#487), you can't have both formes on the same team since it breaks the species clause in the smogon banlist.

[Urwurstnightmare]

I've been pondering on using a good kyogre ev spread, but I am stuck between 252 HP/252 SpA/4 Spe and 4 HP/252 SpA/ 252 Spe. I am really leaning toward the first spread because it makes kyogre take hits more easily, but the second ev spread looks promising.

Q: Which spread should I use?

[TheStarRapper]

The spread you use is heavily dependent on the team style you are running.

For example, on a Hyper offense team I would advise the Choice Scarf Set (Max Spa, Max Spd), simply for the speed factor as well as the ability to hit hard. However, if your team is reliant on survival and reliability, then i would suggest Croogre, which according to onsite is

Kyogre @ Leftovers
Drizzle; Bold
252 hp, 252 Def, 4 spd
-Rest
-Sleep Talk
-Scald/Surf
-Calm Mind

This kyogre works especially well on a team with chansey, whose heal bell can recharge it after resting and switching. Overall, the Choice Specs, Choice Scarf, and RestTalk Ogre are the most synergetic in terms of teambuilding, whether he becomes an offensive or defensive force.

[shrang]

A: Depends on what your team needs.

[ChrisTehAwesome]

Q: if ditto is holding a plate and switches into arceus, will multitype work for him or will he stay normal?

[mtr]

I believe he should switch types if he has that Plate.

The thing is that Ditto turns into Normal Arceus if he goes in with his usual Scarf, but apparently that's a bug, or so an admin informed me yesterday. He should transform into the Arceus Type in question regardless of his item.

[Furai]

This is not something to be tested on some simulator, mtr, you should test this on the game. As for the question, I don't have a DS, and I am not familiar of any way that I could test this on the computer.

[mtr]

I don't have the game either, I just heard this from a % dude offhand yesterday when Shrang and I were talking about it in the Showdown lobby. He can corroborate.

[Neo Dar]

I have a Thundurus who is a special attacker and knows Thunder, Focus Blast, Thunder Wave and Crunch (for psychic sweepers like Alakazam) and I have a Chandelure with Shadow Ball and Spell Tag. The big question is should I switch Crunch or Focus Blast with a Rain Dance for Thunder, or leave both and back track thunder with thunder bolt. I have no other pokemon but a leaf gaurd Tangrowth that benefits from rain dance and i am worried about the wasted move

[ZetoTarken]

I'll test what happens in wifi when I can get my hands on my sister's DS(more importantly her copy of black) but against a wild ditto, Arceus with an Insect Plate the wild Ditto became a Bug Arceus.

[mtr]

Speaking of bugs...

Is Snatch supposed to steal Roost? Smogon Dex says it does, but my Chansey tried to steal a Lugia's Roost, and it didn't work :(

[ZetoTarken]

Yes, Snatch is supposed to take Roost, that must have been a bug.

[shrang]

Okay, about the Arceus form stuff, straight from Bulbapedia:

In Generation IV, when a Pokémon transforms into Arceus, it will become Arceus in its Normal form, unless it is holding a plate. Holding a plate, the transformed Pokémon will at first take Arceus's current form, and then subsequently transform into the alternate form dictated by the plate.
In contrast, in Generation V, when a Pokémon transforms into a plate-holding Arceus, it will retain the Arceus's appearance and type, but Judgment will remain Normal unless the transformed Pokémon is holding a plate itself, as the move copies the plate's type rather than the holder's.

[mtr]

Ugh, not only is the Arceus thing not implemented, but Snatch isn't implemented either. That's a shame, because SnatchBliss was a fairly important tool Stall uses against many Arceus sets. I guess PokemonShowdown Beta's metagame makes Arceus harder to counter by failing to fully adhere to cartridge mechanics.

Tho admittedly, the Ditto-Arceus case only really matters in regard to Dragon and Ghost Arceus.

[Misdreavus]

Is Calm Mind usually the preferred boosting move for Manaphy (over Tail Glow)?

[-Manaphy--]

I wouldn't really say there is a preferred choice. Tail Glow is the more common set. If you do run it I highly recommend Wacan Berry so that you won't be revenge killed easily.

Calm Mind is a slower boosting option, and it's a lot less offensive than Tail Glow, but you can set up quite easily after one Calm Mind on Choice Scarfed Thunders and other things, and then you'd be able to sweep. This one takes on Offensive teams better, but is less effective than TG against stall and you're likely going to get a Critical Hit on you while setting up, which also takes a lot longer than the TG variant.

[Misdreavus]

Originally Posted by Fat -Manaphy--

I wouldn't really say there is a preferred choice. Tail Glow is the more common set. If you do run it I highly recommend Wacan Berry so that you won't be revenge killed easily.

Calm Mind is a slower boosting option, and it's a lot less offensive than Tail Glow, but you can set up quite easily after one Calm Mind on Choice Scarfed Thunders and other things, and then you'd be able to sweep. This one takes on Offensive teams better, but is less effective than TG against stall and you're likely going to get a Critical Hit on you while setting up, which also takes a lot longer than the TG variant.

Thanks for the explanation. Judging by your name, you should know what you're talking about on this subject :p. I asked because the analysis seems to favor the CM variant, which surprised me considering how godly of a move Tail Glow is in Gen V.

[Mr.lol]

Thanks for the explanation. Judging by your name, you should know what you're talking about on this subject :p. I asked because the analysis seems to favor the CM variant, which surprised me considering how godly of a move Tail Glow is in Gen V.

Well the CM set last gen practically owned stall which is probably why their praising it lol (think last mon set-up + troll). This gen (BW2)(something manaphy forgot to mention) CM Manaphy's biggest counter, soul dew latias, is back. Meaning it will have a hard time EVER crushing stall now. Tail Glow is probably the superior option now actually but its down to preference again, but if your going to use CM Manaphy getting rid of Latias is a must for it to sweep, which is easier said then done (AND ITS HARD WITH LEVITATE + OVER 90000000 SPECIAL DEFENSE). Oh and Tail Glow Manaphy is ironically pretty weak if you don't invest in Special Attack (yes nothing makes sense anymore).

[Urwurstnightmare]

What is the best SpecsOgre set out of the ones I've listed.?

Kyogre
Modest
252HP/252SpA/4Spe
Drizzle
Water Spout
Surf
Thunder
Ice Beam

Kyogre
Drizzle
Modest
252HP/252SpA/4Spe
Water Spout
Hydro Pump
Thunder
Ice Beam

Kyogre
Drizzle
4HP/252SpA/252Spe
Modest
Water Spout
Surf
Thunder
Ice Beam

Kyogre
Drizzle
Modest
4HP/252SpA/252 Spe
Water Spout
Hydro Pump
Thunder
Ice Beam