Far Beyond Driven

BKC · Jul 15th, 2011, 5:24:00 PM

I: Introduction
I've made up my mind to not play any OU until this round of suspect testing is over because I despise the current metagame with a passion; hopefully, shit will get banned. Since the metagame is definitely going to change after the bans happen, this is probably a good time to retire my favorite team. It was built around countering opposing weather and using hazards+Specs Latios to clear a path for a Calm Mind Latias sweep. It's done very well, bringing me up to #25 on the leaderboard at one point, and it's defeated some big names. So without further ado, I present my best team and Pantera's best album, Far Beyond Driven.

II: At a Glance

III: The Lineup

Heatran @ Leftovers***25 Years
Calm | EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Stealth Rock | Lava Plume | Roar | Protect

The first part of my weather-counter trio, Heatran, is here to check sun teams. The multitude of switches caused by his great typing and stats often give him a free turn to lay Stealth Rock. He can also soak up Draco Meteors pretty well thanks to his incredible bulk. Protect is one of my favorite moves; it scouts choice users such as Specs/Scarf Hydreigon, CB Haxorus, and Scarf Landorus. It acts as a psuedo-recovery to rack up Lefties gain. Last but not least, it helps wither down burned opponents who have been struck by Lava Plume. Roar is a fantastic move to deal with Tran's grounded switchins, such as Jellicent and Politoed, who will not appreciate taking damage from multiple hazards only to be immediately phazed out. Roar is also my method of checking Volcarona, since most pass up HP Ground for HP Rock - I get rid of Volc's Quiver boosts and let my hazards do the job.

Heatran checks quite a few Pokemon: Scizor, Jirachi, Celebi, Volcarona, Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Forretress Lati@s, and Magnezone sums it up. As mentioned earlier, he is a great asset in defeating sun teams. Overall, I've been very pleased with Heatran's performance.

Skarmory @ Shed Shell***Hard Lines, Sunken Cheeks
Impish | EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SpD
Spikes | Whirlwind | Roost | Brave Bird

Skarm is my main method of dealing with sand teams. Generally the only thing they carry to really threaten him is Rotom-W, who Gastrodon shits on. Skarm is also my main counter to physical attackers such as Excadrill, Landorus, Terrakion, Scizor; did I mention he turns the #1 mon in usage, Ferrothorn, into setup fodder?

You may notice the lack of Leftovers and that's because ever since Enter the Dragon was posted, Magnezone has been everywhere. With Shed Shell, I can easily escape into Heatran for some nice Roaring antics. It's saved me more times than I can count, and the lack of Lefties really doesn't bother me because Roost is awesome.

Gastrodon @ Leftovers***Shedding Skin
Calm | EVs: 252 HP / 16 SpA / 240 SpD
Scald | Ice Beam | Toxic | Recover

Defeater of rain, counter of Thundurus and Rotom-W are this powerful slug's roles on the team. Nothing Thund does will be able to break me while I 2HKO with Ice Beam. Rain teams are usually helpless against this thing bar Ferrothorn, who is spiked on by Skarm. Rotom-W, one of the hardest Pokemon in the metagame to switch into, cannot touch me bar Will-O-Wisp (Recover deals with this) or Trick (Latios absorbs them). Specs Politoed is one of my favorite mons to face with this guy; Storm Drain SpA boost+the opponent's own rain means I'm going to be firing off a surprisingly powerful Scald. Toxic is mainly for Latias but can also be useful vs Virizion switchins if I'm not feeling ballsy enough to attempt a Scald burn.

Gengar @ Life Orb***Slaughtered
Timid | EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Substitute | Pain Split | Shadow Ball | Focus Blast

I usually don't use spinblockers on spikestacking teams this gen but Forretress was getting a little too common for my liking. Since they don't run Payback anymore, they become setup fodder. I originally had Gliscor in this slot to act as a more secure Terrakion counter than Skarm, but I realized that Gar could spinblock and check Terra at the same time, so it got a slot. Sub+Disable is the most common set but I like the classic SubSplit variant from DPP. Its ability to lure in and weaken Jirachi (especially if I'm getting special defense drops) is greatly beneficial to my attempted Latias sweep.

Latios @ Choice Specs***Strength Beyond Strength
Timid | EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Draco Meteor | Dragon Pulse | Surf | Trick

With spikes down, Latios becomes damn near impossible to switch in to without losing a Pokemon. Its raw power is simply ridiculous. It has the same counters as Latias, making killing/weakening them very easy. No one seems to expect Trick; it's insanely useful for crippling Ferrothorn/Jirachi. The explanation for my two dragon moves: Draco Meteor is the instant-kill button I use early game to soften up Latias' counters. If Latios is still around near the end of the game, I can Dragon Pulse everything in sight for a sweep without having to worry about the special attack drop. Losing Psystrike isn't a big deal, seeing as Blissey/Chansey get fucked over by Trick.

Latias @ Leftovers***5 Minutes Alone
Timid | EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Calm Mind | Roost | Dragon Pulse | Roar

With Latios beating down its counters, Latias is near impossible to stop midgame. She can fend for herself extremely well though; her common switchins are grounded (Ttar, Jirachi, Ferrothorn) so a well-timed Roar can really cut their longevity down. Roar also lets me win all CM wars against Reuniclus, Virizion, and Suicune. Even though it's a phazer, max speed investment is necessary because the base 110 tie is very important; besides, max HP is all the bulk I need. With Spikes, Latios, and Roar helping out, minimum attacking investment is no problem. Oh yeah and sun teams tend to be really weak to her as well. Latias is the star of the team and I love her.

BKC · Jul 15th, 2011, 5:27:04 PM

threatlist

Only using the offensive threatlist since the defensive mons are taken care of by Spikes+Latios Draco Meteor/Trick+Gengar+Latias.

Code:

Threats

Aerodactyl - Gastrodon.
Archeops - Skarm, Gastro.
Azelf - Heatran.
Bisharp - Skarm, Gastro. Gengar can sub to avoid Sucker Punch revenge kill.
Breloom - Let the least valuable mon at the time go to sleep - usually it's Skarm. Latias resists both STABs and can Roar out its Sub. Gengar and Latios are an emergency checks.
Chandelure - Heatran.
Cobalion - Skarm, Gengar with some prediction.
Conkeldurr - Mainly Skarm. Latias can use Roar's negative priority to weaken Payback. At worst, Latios can smash it with with Draco Meteor
Darmanitan - Gastrodon. Lati@s and Gengar can revenge kill.
Deoxys-S - Lead sets are 2HKO'd by Heatran's Lava Plume (OHKO'd if I get the burn!). Since 4/6th of my team is in the air, the spikes don't bother me too much. As for offensive sets, Gastrodon takes them pretty well. Lati@s and Heatran can take a hit if necessary.
Dragonite - Gastrodon's Toxic ruins it. If it's outside Multi-Scale range, Ice Beam finishes it off. Choice Banders are walled by Skarm and revenged by Lati@s.
Druddigon - Skarm, revenged by Lati@s.
Eelektross - Lati@s and Gastrodon (the latter's light weight guarding it against Grass Knot).
Electivire - Gastrodon, Lati@s.
Emboar - Gastrodon, Lati@s.
Empoleon - Gastrodon, Lati@s. Gengar revenges in an emergency.
Espeon - It likes to come in on Skarm to try and reflect hazards, so I smack it with a Brave Bird or two. Heatran walls it.
Escavalier - Skarm. Tran.
Excadrill - Skarm. ps: ban excadrill
Gengar - Gastrodon. Heatran can take a hit. Worst case scenario: I have 3 Pokemon that tie with it, I'm bound to outrun it once.
Golurk - Skarm, Gengar, Latios.
Gyarados - Gastrodon. Skarm. Latios. I usually wear it down by Roaring and Lava Plume burning with Heatran, though.
Haxorus - Skarm. Lati@s revenge.
Heatran - Gastro, Lati@s.
Heracross - Skarm. Gengar+Lati@s with some prediction.
Hydreigon - Gastrodon. Lati@s+Gengar outrun non-Scarfers, while Scarfers will struggle to break Skarm+Tran.
Infernape - Gastrodon. Lati@s. Gengar revenges.
Jirachi - Skarm spikes on it. Heatran walls it. Gastrodon walls it.
Jolteon - Gastrodon. Heatran. Lati@s.
Kingdra - Gastrodon takes mixed sets, Lati@s revenge them. Skarm beats DD sets.
Krookodile - Skarm.
Kyurem - Tran.
Landorus - Skarm. Lati@s+Gengar revenge non-scarfers.
Latios - Tran doesn't take very much from Specs Draco Meteor. If I suspect a Surf, Gastrodon comes in. If I expect a Trick, I send my own Latios in. It's really a prediction game and I manage fine against it for the most part. Calm Minders are Toxiced by Gastrodon and Protect stalled+phazed by Tran.
Lilligant - Skarm, Lati@s.
Lucario - Skarm is my initial switch. If I see a special attack / Nasty Plot, switch to Gengar on Aura Sphere and kill it.
Machamp - Skarm can Brave Bird, Gengar can come in on the next DynamicPunch and finish with Shadow Ball. Worst case scenario, Latios will Draco Meteor its face in.
Magnezone - Shed Shell Skarm ftw. Heatran, Lati@s, Gastrodon.
Mamoswine - Skarm.
Metagross - Skarm.
Mienshao - Skarm. Gengar if necessary.
Reuniclus - Trick Room versions require some nifty switching, but they're manageable. Calm Mind variants boost up alongside Latias and then get Roared out.
Roserade - Lati@s, Tran.
Salamence - Gastrodon takes mixed sets, Lati@s and Gengar revenge them. Force the DD versions into Outrage and Brave Bird with Skarm.
Sawsbuck - Skarm.
Scizor - Skarm. Tran.
Scrafty - Skarm.
Seismitoad - Gastro. Lati@s.
Serperior - Skarm. Tran. Lati@s.
Shaymin - Tran. Lati@s.
Sigilyph - Spike all over it and phaze, let Latios or Gengar kill it later.
Smeargle - Smashpass is for faggots. Let something sleep (depends on what I deem least valuable in the match) and phaze with Tran or Skarm.
Starmie - Gastrodon. Lati@s can take a hit.
Terrakion - Skarm. Gengar, with some prediction. Lati@s revenge.
Thundurus - GASTRODON
Togekiss - Gastrodon's Toxic withers it down nicely.
Tornadus - Heatran. If I expect Focus Blast, Gengar is sent out.
Tyranitar - Gastro. Tran. Multiple hazards+Latios Draco Meteor=dead.
Venusaur - Lati@s. If they've got Sludge Bomb (which I believe Lati@s lives anyway), Heatran takes them unless they pack EQ, in which case Skarmory beats them.
Victini - Heatran. Gastrodon. Lati@s.
Virizion - Latias is my primary switch-in because they tend to run CM; if I see a special attack I'll Roar to rack up hazard damage+scare away Tyranitar. If I see a physical attack or SD, I'll go to Gastro on the Stone Edge and Skarm on the Leaf Blade, then kill with Brave Bird/Whirlwind the switch, depending on what kind of player I'm facing.
Volcarona - Heatran's Roar+hazards.
Weavile - Skarm.
Zoroark - I'm usually able to figure out if it's masquerading as something and act accordingly. If not, I'll lose a mon, but then the jig is up.

importable

Eggbert · Jul 15th, 2011, 6:54:30 PM

So this would be the lati twin strategy you were talking about. Seems very solid except for a huge weakness to offensive SD Scizor. I used Heatran / Gastrodon / Skarmory for a while and SD Scizor actually gets through most of your team as with superpower it gets past Skarm and outspeeds Tran. Strong sand attackers like CB / SD Terrakion will be annoying because it can 2HKO Skarm, esp without lefties, and wall Latias in the sand and force Heatran out. Blissey also seems like a pain to break, more than it should be.

Anyway I do think Jellicent would help over Gengar. Gengar can't switch in on Forry and does absolutely nothing against Excadrill. Jellicent can stallbreak with taunt + toxic, wall Scizor, and completely counter Jirachi will probably be more useful. Since you should have 0 Rotom problems and minimal Thundurus problems Jellicent is covered. Not much else to say and I'm sure you know the set, so gl.

IronBullet93 · Jul 15th, 2011, 6:59:38 PM

Sup BKC,

I strongly recommend trying out Toxic on Heatran over Protect. This is mainly to actually be able to do something against stuff like Gastrodon, Volcarona and the Latis rather than just taking a hit and roaring them out. Toxic is extremely useful for bulky Waters that your team struggles with a lot, seeing as you don't have a single move on your team that hits Waters super-effectively. Toxic can also save you from tough situations like a last mon CM Latias or QD Volcarona.

Since Latios' job is mainly to blow holes in the opponents team with Draco Meteors and not last till end-game, you don't seem like you use Dragon Pulse much. So, HP Fire can be used to catch Ferrothorn on the switch and 2HKO Sp Def Jirachi after Spikes, a great way to set up a Latias sweep. You have explained the reason for using two dragon moves, but you won't always have hazards up and it's very important for your team to get rid of those two Pokemon.

You rely on Skarm to counter so many physical attackers who would otherwise 6-0 this team with ease. I really think you need another solid check to these Pokes and so I'd like to see Gliscor back over Gengar. Forretress is mostly used on sun which is not really a problem for this team, or stall. Now stall is really hard pressed to deal with Gliscor and Latios as it is. To fuck with stall even more, you can give Latias Refresh, which also makes Blissey setup fodder. You can keep Gengar if you're not having too much trouble with the likes of Landorus, Excadrill and Terrakion, but constantly switching in on SR and the lack of lefties will take its toll on Skarmory and I feel that you need another solid counter to those Pokemon.

Good luck!

BKC · Jul 15th, 2011, 7:11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Eggbert

So this would be the lati twin strategy you were talking about. Seems very solid except for a huge weakness to offensive SD Scizor. I used Heatran / Gastrodon / Skarmory for a while and SD Scizor actually gets through most of your team as with superpower it gets past Skarm and outspeeds Tran. Strong sand attackers like CB / SD Terrakion will be annoying because it can 2HKO Skarm, esp without lefties, and wall Latias in the sand and force Heatran out. Blissey also seems like a pain to break, more than it should be.

Anyway I do think Jellicent would help over Gengar. Gengar can't switch in on Forry and does absolutely nothing against Excadrill. Jellicent can stallbreak with taunt + toxic, wall Scizor, and completely counter Jirachi will probably be more useful. Since you should have 0 Rotom problems and minimal Thundurus problems Jellicent is covered. Not much else to say and I'm sure you know the set, so gl.

Terrakion isn't too threatening. If I see it use SD / a CC that shows it's CB'd, Gengar gets in for free and can either Focus Blast or sub. It is kind of risky though, so I agree that it's problematic.

Offensive SD Scizor does look like a massive pain in the ass though. Quite honestly I've never seen one outrun Tran, even if it does have LO, because they were running a bulky spread like in franky's rmt. Also, most Forry I see carry Volt Switch, which is why Gengar makes a safe switch, should've clarified that.

The last issue you mentioned is Bliss; it's not really a problem honestly, Skarm spikes all over it and once they're up, Latios can massacre it with some Draco Meteors. If they're not up, it won't appreciate Specs. So I'm kind of reluctant to replace Gengar, but I do know how effective Taunt Jellicent is, so I will give it a shot. Thanks for the rate!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat IronBullet93

Sup BKC,

I strongly recommend trying out Toxic on Heatran over Protect. This is mainly to actually be able to do something against stuff like Gastrodon, Volcarona and the Latis rather than just taking a hit and roaring them out. Toxic is extremely useful for bulky Waters that your team struggles with a lot, seeing as you don't have a single move on your team that hits Waters super-effectively. Toxic can also save you from tough situations like a last mon CM Latias or QD Volcarona.

Since Latios' job is mainly to blow holes in the opponents team with Draco Meteors and not last till end-game, you don't seem like you use Dragon Pulse much. So, HP Fire can be used to catch Ferrothorn on the switch and 2HKO Sp Def Jirachi after Spikes, a great way to set up a Latias sweep. You have explained the reason for using two dragon moves, but you won't always have hazards up and it's very important for your team to get rid of those two Pokemon.

You rely on Skarm to counter so many physical attackers who would otherwise 6-0 this team with ease. I really think you need another solid check to these Pokes and so I'd like to see Gliscor back over Gengar. Forretress is mostly used on sun which is not really a problem for this team, or stall. Now stall is really hard pressed to deal with Gliscor and Latios as it is. To fuck with stall even more, you can give Latias Refresh, which also makes Blissey setup fodder. You can keep Gengar if you're not having too much trouble with the likes of Landorus, Excadrill and Terrakion, but constantly switching in on SR and the lack of lefties will take its toll on Skarmory and I feel that you need another solid counter to those Pokemon.

Good luck!

Protect is really valuable but I do like the idea of Toxic...maybe I'll get funky and use both, shoving SR over Brave Bird on Skarm. I dunno yet, I'll do some testing.

HP Fire Latios sounds like a great idea because I won't have to resort to getting rid of my specs to beat Ferro/Rachi, meaning I can fuck up Ferro/Rachi+Bliss teams more effectively.

I see what you mean about opposing stall teams, and so I will definitely give Gliscor another shot. Thanks for the rate!

Lord Liam · Jul 15th, 2011, 10:57:24 PM

This is an awesome team BKC, and as usual I am a fan of your excellent team naming (Pantera). However one important thing you may wish to address is that nobody on the team is named Becoming, which imo is the best song on the album. Get to it!

Good choice on the not playing until the end of the round thing, this meta REALLY sucks.

DankDawson · Jul 15th, 2011, 11:57:43 PM

I agree with Lord Liam on the name and most of what he had said. Perhaps Latias could be named Becoming, as it is becoming more and more used, and becomes stronger after few turns of set up.

Haha, anyways about the actual team.. Iknow this has been mentioned already but I see a rather large Scizor/ Tyranitar weakness. Pursuit can OHKO 3 of your Pokemon while Mix Ttar with Pursuit can hit Pokes with Pursuit and continue to take down Skarmory with Fire Blast, and can even hit Heatran with Earthquake on a Choice Band/ Scarf set. To remedy tis problem I would recommend testing out Gliscor over Skarmory. Or you could possibly replace a Poke with something that has a strong Fire and Fighting/ Ground physical move. I'm not the best at rating teams, I apologize for that, but I felt the need to do all I could to help out a fellow Pantera fan.

Heist · Jul 16th, 2011, 12:10:12 AM

this is a cool team and i was going to suggest a few things on irc before you disappeared. ive had a lot of success using skarmory/gastrodon/heatran as a defensive unit to take on weather teams in this round and the previous one. that particular heatran is very effective at doing what it does..

anyway, as i said, and as you agreed, gengar is really thrown onto this team -- it doesnt really add that much to your team and is just compounding already compounded weaknesses, in particular to the dark-type move. and with scarftar usage increasing, hes gonna be able to pick off a couple of your guys as although latias is generally roaring and gengar subbing when they come out, not everything is gonna go your way. you say you really like gengar as a spin-blocker as you dislike forretress although i rarely every run into forretress and if i do 80% of them will have gyro ball which makes quick work of your gengar. yea taunt+wow jellicent would be a cool pkmn to throw in over gengar as it helps against a number of issues [blissey, terrakion, etc] and can also potentially burn a ferrothorn which will make it much easier on latias.

speaking of latias, you should definitely try substitute > roar. your main objective is for latios to batter their counters so latias can clean up and roar is definitely more useful early-game, especially if you get the hazards up. substitute will let you come out on top of a large number of threats - eg ferrothorn even with gyro ball can be beaten as substitute evades leech seed. taunt+wow mew with psychic no longer wins as it cant burn you and last-pkmn reuniclus will pretty much never win as you have sub to block against a critical hit. substitute also lets you hide from random burns and toxics from rotom-w, gastrodon and jellicent. substitute still acts as a safety blanket at escaping from pursuit users like ttar. also seconding hp fire suggestion on latios.

really cool team man

BTzz · Jul 16th, 2011, 1:42:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Blingox24

2 dances+hp ground on volcarona sweeps this entire team :/ or even one dance if he has hazards up

You could tell him how to fix that...

Anyways, very nice team. I agree with some of the other guys about Gengar being you weak link so my recommendation is CB Scizor (you probably already know the set). He takes out Tyranitar, which makes it even easier for the Lati twins to sweep. Scizor also gives you team some very useful resistances and he's great flash fire bait for Tran. He can also take on CM Latias, which might be better then just walling him with Heatran.

Sorry I couldn't give you a better rating, the other guys beat me to it :/

gl with the team!

BKC · Jul 16th, 2011, 8:27:55 AM

Thanks for the rates!

@Lord Liam: Becoming is sure as hell not the best song on the album. Strength Beyond Strength or Shedding Skin any day.

@DankDawson: Gliscor has done well in warding off Ttar, but I've been using it in Gengar's place - Skarm's spikes are too valuable to lose. MixTar is kind of a pain but usually they don't carry anything to hit Heatran anymore (even superpower won't ko) so I can spam Lava Plume until I get a burn.

@Heist: sub latias sounds good, hp fire latios sounds good, jellicent sounds good.

@Brizznetz: scizor is an interesting suggestion that would definitely abuse spikes more. it'd also help against weakened dd nite.

also, to address the hp ground volcarona issue: it's really not that terrible. it won't ko heatran, so i can roar it out, and it's dead the next time it switches in. worst comes to worst, i'll toxic it with gastrodon and then switch around to build up the poison damage. i might lose a mon or two but it's never swept me.

Bowl Cut · Jul 16th, 2011, 8:51:01 AM

super awesomely cool team m4ngbr0s3lfm8 xd!

I would have something creative to say, but I believe everything I was going to say has already been spoken.

I like the fact that this team has no weather whatsoever as well as having both Latias and Latios. We might have some sibling rivalry here on who puts in more of that big work.

Overall, really nice team.

~~bubbly~~ · Jul 16th, 2011, 9:24:40 AM

Hey BKC :) I'm actually currently running almost exactly the same team as this, except with Jellicent > Gengar and Reuniclus w/ Flame Orb + Trick instead of your Latias.
Like everyone else suggested Jellicent > Gengar is better defensively but I actually prefer Gengar to be honest because it works so well offensively with your Lati@s duo. Have to agree with Substitute > Roar on Latias as Heist suggested though.
EDIT: woops forgot this, Taunt over Brave Bird on your Skarm could work well, primarily to really make Ferrothorn your bitch.

Anyway, its really great to see your teams coming up in the RMT forum again, I actually kinda missed them since 4th gen :)

Curtains · Jul 16th, 2011, 10:20:54 AM

Sup BKC , nice team. Swords dance Scizor can gives you some heavy issues. Terrakion can make some huge holes in your team as well. One change I would make is your Latias set. I would give it 252 Defense ev's and a Bold nature. This will give you a better option vs strong physical attackers like Conkledurr . In which you can roar him out while payback does little damage. It also can help defeat Reniculus that carry Psyshock instead of psychic easier. I would also use jellecent instead of gengar. The standard jellecent set should help out alot better against SD Scizor and baton pass. It can prevent other stall teams from working because honestly this team doesn't have enough recovery to go in and out of spikes/stealth rocks without wish support. Have you ever thought about tangrowth instead of specs latios or latias? It is a great stall pokemon with regenerator. and has excellent defense attributes and it just so happens to work very well with gastrodon who has bad defense with your current spread. Try it out. Other than that good team and congrats on your achievements with it.

franky · Jul 16th, 2011, 10:22:07 AM

hey bkc,

seeing how your team works i highly recommend keeping gengar because it just fits in the synergy perfectly. it is able to draw in specially defensive jirachi and tyranitar quite easily- sometimes ferrothorn when your opponent doesn't have any options left. anyways, looking at gengar's role, i think you can definitely try out a simple life orb set on latios with the movesets draco meteor / psycho shock / surf / recover. i think you need the speed as possible to tie with opposing latios because one that wields lo can be a huge pain. the lo set provides you to tear to blissey, easily 2hkoing the most physically defensive variants with one sr down + one spike. it also ohkoes terrakion because surf fails to ohko it under the sand. heavy stall teams have a difficult time dealing with this type of latios so you can give it a shot.

as for other options, the last move on latias is quite flexible. however, you'll find that a lot of players will conserve their counter for latias because your synergy is quite detectable. i would consider three moves there but for now, i'd actually give hp fire a shot to actually hit bronzong, jirachi, and scizor. its sweeping lategame anyways, i don't even think you need roar unless reuinclus becomes too problematic. again, its a flexible last slot and its totally changeable to your likings. overall gl.

BKC · Jul 16th, 2011, 11:17:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Bowl Cut

super awesomely cool team m4ngbr0s3lfm8 xd!

I would have something creative to say, but I believe everything I was going to say has already been spoken.

I like the fact that this team has no weather whatsoever as well as having both Latias and Latios. We might have some sibling rivalry here on who puts in more of that big work.

Overall, really nice team.

Latias puts in more of that big work if you know what I mean.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat bubbly

Hey BKC :) I'm actually currently running almost exactly the same team as this, except with Jellicent > Gengar and Reuniclus w/ Flame Orb + Trick instead of your Latias.
Like everyone else suggested Jellicent > Gengar is better defensively but I actually prefer Gengar to be honest because it works so well offensively with your Lati@s duo. Have to agree with Substitute > Roar on Latias as Heist suggested though.
EDIT: woops forgot this, Taunt over Brave Bird on your Skarm could work well, primarily to really make Ferrothorn your bitch.

Anyway, its really great to see your teams coming up in the RMT forum again, I actually kinda missed them since 4th gen :)

Taunt is a cool idea, BB isn't used much except for Conkeldurr, who isn't much of a problem anyways. Sub has been cool on Latias but I've been getting really weird lately, running Sub/Roar/Roost/Dragon Pulse, not even needing the boosting at times. I'll definitely try out SubCM more though, thanks for the rate!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Curtains

Sup BKC , nice team. Swords dance Scizor can gives you some heavy issues. Terrakion can make some huge holes in your team as well. One change I would make is your Latias set. I would give it 252 Defense ev's and a Bold nature. This will give you a better option vs strong physical attackers like Conkledurr . In which you can roar him out while payback does little damage. It also can help defeat Reniculus that carry Psyshock instead of psychic easier. I would also use jellecent instead of gengar. The standard jellecent set should help out alot better against SD Scizor and baton pass. It can prevent other stall teams from working because honestly this team doesn't have enough recovery to go in and out of spikes/stealth rocks without wish support. Have you ever thought about tangrowth instead of specs latios or latias? It is a great stall pokemon with regenerator. and has excellent defense attributes and it just so happens to work very well with gastrodon who has bad defense with your current spread. Try it out. Other than that good team and congrats on your achievements with it.

Physically defensive Latias sounds cool, I might try Reflect on it to really screw over Tyranitar/Scizor. I do know how strong Tangrowth is so I'll give it a shot. Thanks for the rate!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat franky

hey bkc,

seeing how your team works i highly recommend keeping gengar because it just fits in the synergy perfectly. it is able to draw in specially defensive jirachi and tyranitar quite easily- sometimes ferrothorn when your opponent doesn't have any options left. anyways, looking at gengar's role, i think you can definitely try out a simple life orb set on latios with the movesets draco meteor / psycho shock / surf / recover. i think you need the speed as possible to tie with opposing latios because one that wields lo can be a huge pain. the lo set provides you to tear to blissey, easily 2hkoing the most physically defensive variants with one sr down + one spike. it also ohkoes terrakion because surf fails to ohko it under the sand. heavy stall teams have a difficult time dealing with this type of latios so you can give it a shot.

as for other options, the last move on latias is quite flexible. however, you'll find that a lot of players will conserve their counter for latias because your synergy is quite detectable. i would consider three moves there but for now, i'd actually give hp fire a shot to actually hit bronzong, jirachi, and scizor. its sweeping lategame anyways, i don't even think you need roar unless reuinclus becomes too problematic. again, its a flexible last slot and its totally changeable to your likings. overall gl.

Life Orb Latios sounds like a really solid option, and I'll give HP Fire Latias a shot, thanks for the rate man!

Trinitrotoluene · Jul 16th, 2011, 8:03:18 PM

Hello. I'm that nobody rater sitting in the corner. However, that's besides the point.

I took this team out for a spin, and I have a bit to say here. First, this is an absolutely amazing team and is, in my mind, deserving of a spot in the 5th Gen. OU RMT Archive (I won't recommend it though just because I'm a troll like that). Next, the Lati twin concept is pretty cool, if only for the rage-inducing effect it has on the opposition when they see ANOTHER Lati. Finally, Pantera isn't my cup of tea, but if it's yours, then so be it. (Just a polite way of saying that Pantera isn't the best.)

Now, onto your team:

Heatran: I've tried Toxic over Protect on Heatran, and it's just as good. However, there's those moments where I miss Protect's utility in scouting for a Choiced Pokemon's attack. It's all up to personal preference.

Skarmory: I might sound like a noob in recommending Lefties over Shed Shell, but it has its usage. However, it requires more careful playing when Magnezone is seen on the field (thanks JabbaTheGriffin and PK Gaming, now Mag is everywhere...). Taunt is also an option, but it leaves you vulnerable to faster Taunt mons.

Gastrodon: I'd try to fit Earth Power in over one of the existing moves, but all of them hold a specific purpose. I'd also consider a physically defensive spread to take on Cloyster better, but then you have Skarmory for that.

Gengar: As the others have said, Jellicent is a feasible option here. However, should you decide to skip out on Jellicent and keep Gengar, I'd recommend Disable over Pain Split. It helps against Conkeldurr and Terrakion and also saves you some pain when dealing with enemy Chansey / Blissey.

Latios: Can't say much here, but Thunderbolt is an option over Dragon Pulse if one wants to hit Gyarados harder and make it pay for getting to +1. Trick lets you cripple the pink blobs and makes fighting stall much easier (unless they have a ScarfTar).

Latias: Hidden Power Fire and Substitute are cool options to consider over Roar, and I also would add to the pool by seconding Refresh. It makes stall unable to touch Latias (as mentioned earlier), and gives you a blanket against status that isn't sleep or freeze.

I'll add more later, but my battery charge is running low as it is.

100th post. Woot.

Jul 15th, 2011, 6:59:38 PM	#4
IronBullet93 And we lived beneath the waves, in our yellow submarine Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,311 England	Sup BKC, I strongly recommend trying out Toxic on Heatran over Protect. This is mainly to actually be able to do something against stuff like Gastrodon, Volcarona and the Latis rather than just taking a hit and roaring them out. Toxic is extremely useful for bulky Waters that your team struggles with a lot, seeing as you don't have a single move on your team that hits Waters super-effectively. Toxic can also save you from tough situations like a last mon CM Latias or QD Volcarona. Since Latios' job is mainly to blow holes in the opponents team with Draco Meteors and not last till end-game, you don't seem like you use Dragon Pulse much. So, HP Fire can be used to catch Ferrothorn on the switch and 2HKO Sp Def Jirachi after Spikes, a great way to set up a Latias sweep. You have explained the reason for using two dragon moves, but you won't always have hazards up and it's very important for your team to get rid of those two Pokemon. You rely on Skarm to counter so many physical attackers who would otherwise 6-0 this team with ease. I really think you need another solid check to these Pokes and so I'd like to see Gliscor back over Gengar. Forretress is mostly used on sun which is not really a problem for this team, or stall. Now stall is really hard pressed to deal with Gliscor and Latios as it is. To fuck with stall even more, you can give Latias Refresh, which also makes Blissey setup fodder. You can keep Gengar if you're not having too much trouble with the likes of Landorus, Excadrill and Terrakion, but constantly switching in on SR and the lack of lefties will take its toll on Skarmory and I feel that you need another solid counter to those Pokemon. Good luck! __________________ <iconic> i just cheered for eo <iconic> fml <Eo Ut Mortus> lol smd

Jul 15th, 2011, 10:57:24 PM	#6
Lord Liam Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 348 SLICK THICK FUCK	This is an awesome team BKC, and as usual I am a fan of your excellent team naming (Pantera). However one important thing you may wish to address is that nobody on the team is named Becoming, which imo is the best song on the album. Get to it! Good choice on the not playing until the end of the round thing, this meta *REALLY* sucks. __________________ deletes post if unsuccessful crew 4chan copypaste crew #1 adv trainer crew

Jul 15th, 2011, 11:57:43 PM	#7
DankDawson Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 169	I agree with Lord Liam on the name and most of what he had said. Perhaps Latias could be named Becoming, as it is becoming more and more used, and becomes stronger after few turns of set up. Haha, anyways about the actual team.. Iknow this has been mentioned already but I see a rather large Scizor/ Tyranitar weakness. Pursuit can OHKO 3 of your Pokemon while Mix Ttar with Pursuit can hit Pokes with Pursuit and continue to take down Skarmory with Fire Blast, and can even hit Heatran with Earthquake on a Choice Band/ Scarf set. To remedy tis problem I would recommend testing out Gliscor over Skarmory. Or you could possibly replace a Poke with something that has a strong Fire and Fighting/ Ground physical move. I'm not the best at rating teams, I apologize for that, but I felt the need to do all I could to help out a fellow Pantera fan. __________________ Black: 2966 8134 2801 I use legal hacks. Feel free to help me out on my team: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3449860 If you'd like your team rated feel free to contact me.

Jul 16th, 2011, 8:27:55 AM	#10
BKC bringer of torture Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,235 Prague	Thanks for the rates! @Lord Liam: Becoming is sure as hell not the best song on the album. Strength Beyond Strength or Shedding Skin any day. @DankDawson: Gliscor has done well in warding off Ttar, but I've been using it in Gengar's place - Skarm's spikes are too valuable to lose. MixTar is kind of a pain but usually they don't carry anything to hit Heatran anymore (even superpower won't ko) so I can spam Lava Plume until I get a burn. @Heist: sub latias sounds good, hp fire latios sounds good, jellicent sounds good. @Brizznetz: scizor is an interesting suggestion that would definitely abuse spikes more. it'd also help against weakened dd nite. also, to address the hp ground volcarona issue: it's really not that terrible. it won't ko heatran, so i can roar it out, and it's dead the next time it switches in. worst comes to worst, i'll toxic it with gastrodon and then switch around to build up the poison damage. i might lose a mon or two but it's never swept me. __________________ RYM

Jul 16th, 2011, 10:20:54 AM	#13
Curtains Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 977 Dirtiest player on smogon	Sup BKC , nice team. Swords dance Scizor can gives you some heavy issues. Terrakion can make some huge holes in your team as well. One change I would make is your Latias set. I would give it 252 Defense ev's and a Bold nature. This will give you a better option vs strong physical attackers like Conkledurr . In which you can roar him out while payback does little damage. It also can help defeat Reniculus that carry Psyshock instead of psychic easier. I would also use jellecent instead of gengar. The standard jellecent set should help out alot better against SD Scizor and baton pass. It can prevent other stall teams from working because honestly this team doesn't have enough recovery to go in and out of spikes/stealth rocks without wish support. Have you ever thought about tangrowth instead of specs latios or latias? It is a great stall pokemon with regenerator. and has excellent defense attributes and it just so happens to work very well with gastrodon who has bad defense with your current spread. Try it out. Other than that good team and congrats on your achievements with it. __________________ Curtains Youtube Channel

Jul 15th, 2011, 5:24:00 PM	#1
BKC bringer of torture Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,235 Prague	Far Beyond Driven I: Introduction I've made up my mind to not play any OU until this round of suspect testing is over because I despise the current metagame with a passion; hopefully, shit will get banned. Since the metagame is definitely going to change after the bans happen, this is probably a good time to retire my favorite team. It was built around countering opposing weather and using hazards+Specs Latios to clear a path for a Calm Mind Latias sweep. It's done very well, bringing me up to #25 on the leaderboard at one point, and it's defeated some big names. So without further ado, I present my best team and Pantera's best album, Far Beyond Driven. II: At a Glance III: The Lineup Heatran @ Leftovers*25 Years Calm \| EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD Stealth Rock \| Lava Plume \| Roar \| Protect The first part of my weather-counter trio, Heatran, is here to check sun teams. The multitude of switches caused by his great typing and stats often give him a free turn to lay Stealth Rock. He can also soak up Draco Meteors pretty well thanks to his incredible bulk. Protect is one of my favorite moves; it scouts choice users such as Specs/Scarf Hydreigon, CB Haxorus, and Scarf Landorus. It acts as a psuedo-recovery to rack up Lefties gain. Last but not least, it helps wither down burned opponents who have been struck by Lava Plume. Roar is a fantastic move to deal with Tran's grounded switchins, such as Jellicent and Politoed, who will not appreciate taking damage from multiple hazards only to be immediately phazed out. Roar is also my method of checking Volcarona, since most pass up HP Ground for HP Rock - I get rid of Volc's Quiver boosts and let my hazards do the job. Heatran checks quite a few Pokemon: Scizor, Jirachi, Celebi, Volcarona, Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Forretress Lati@s, and Magnezone sums it up. As mentioned earlier, he is a great asset in defeating sun teams. Overall, I've been very pleased with Heatran's performance. Skarmory @ Shed ShellHard Lines, Sunken Cheeks Impish \| EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SpD Spikes \| Whirlwind \| Roost \| Brave Bird Skarm is my main method of dealing with sand teams. Generally the only thing they carry to really threaten him is Rotom-W, who Gastrodon shits on. Skarm is also my main counter to physical attackers such as Excadrill, Landorus, Terrakion, Scizor; did I mention he turns the #1 mon in usage, Ferrothorn, into setup fodder? You may notice the lack of Leftovers and that's because ever since Enter the Dragon was posted, Magnezone has been everywhere. With Shed Shell, I can easily escape into Heatran for some nice Roaring antics. It's saved me more times than I can count, and the lack of Lefties really doesn't bother me because Roost is awesome. Gastrodon @ LeftoversShedding Skin Calm \| EVs: 252 HP / 16 SpA / 240 SpD Scald \| Ice Beam \| Toxic \| Recover Defeater of rain, counter of Thundurus and Rotom-W are this powerful slug's roles on the team. Nothing Thund does will be able to break me while I 2HKO with Ice Beam. Rain teams are usually helpless against this thing bar Ferrothorn, who is spiked on by Skarm. Rotom-W, one of the hardest Pokemon in the metagame to switch into, cannot touch me bar Will-O-Wisp (Recover deals with this) or Trick (Latios absorbs them). Specs Politoed is one of my favorite mons to face with this guy; Storm Drain SpA boost+the opponent's own rain means I'm going to be firing off a surprisingly powerful Scald. Toxic is mainly for Latias but can also be useful vs Virizion switchins if I'm not feeling ballsy enough to attempt a Scald burn. Gengar @ Life OrbSlaughtered Timid \| EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Substitute \| Pain Split \| Shadow Ball \| Focus Blast I usually don't use spinblockers on spikestacking teams this gen but Forretress was getting a little too common for my liking. Since they don't run Payback anymore, they become setup fodder. I originally had Gliscor in this slot to act as a more secure Terrakion counter than Skarm, but I realized that Gar could spinblock and check Terra at the same time, so it got a slot. Sub+Disable is the most common set but I like the classic SubSplit variant from DPP. Its ability to lure in and weaken Jirachi (especially if I'm getting special defense drops) is greatly beneficial to my attempted Latias sweep. Latios @ Choice SpecsStrength Beyond Strength Timid \| EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Draco Meteor \| Dragon Pulse \| Surf \| Trick With spikes down, Latios becomes damn near impossible to switch in to without losing a Pokemon. Its raw power is simply ridiculous. It has the same counters as Latias, making killing/weakening them very easy. No one seems to expect Trick; it's insanely useful for crippling Ferrothorn/Jirachi. The explanation for my two dragon moves: Draco Meteor is the instant-kill button I use early game to soften up Latias' counters. If Latios is still around near the end of the game, I can Dragon Pulse everything in sight for a sweep without having to worry about the special attack drop. Losing Psystrike isn't a big deal, seeing as Blissey/Chansey get fucked over by Trick. Latias @ Leftovers5 Minutes Alone Timid \| EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe Calm Mind \| Roost \| Dragon Pulse \| Roar With Latios beating down its counters, Latias is near impossible to stop midgame. She can fend for herself extremely well though; her common switchins are grounded (Ttar, Jirachi, Ferrothorn) so a well-timed Roar can really cut their longevity down. Roar also lets me win all CM wars against Reuniclus, Virizion, and Suicune. Even though it's a phazer, max speed investment is necessary because the base 110 tie is very important; besides, max HP is all the bulk I need. With Spikes, Latios, and Roar helping out, minimum attacking investment is no problem. Oh yeah and sun teams tend to be really weak to her as well. Latias is the star of the team and I love her. __________________ RYM* Last edited by BKC; Jul 29th, 2011 at 8:40:54 AM.

Jul 15th, 2011, 6:54:30 PM	#3
Eggbert Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,074	So this would be the lati twin strategy you were talking about. Seems very solid except for a huge weakness to offensive SD Scizor. I used Heatran / Gastrodon / Skarmory for a while and SD Scizor actually gets through most of your team as with superpower it gets past Skarm and outspeeds Tran. Strong sand attackers like CB / SD Terrakion will be annoying because it can 2HKO Skarm, esp without lefties, and wall Latias in the sand and force Heatran out. Blissey also seems like a pain to break, more than it should be. Anyway I do think Jellicent would help over Gengar. Gengar can't switch in on Forry and does absolutely nothing against Excadrill. Jellicent can stallbreak with taunt + toxic, wall Scizor, and completely counter Jirachi will probably be more useful. Since you should have 0 Rotom problems and minimal Thundurus problems Jellicent is covered. Not much else to say and I'm sure you know the set, so gl.

Jul 16th, 2011, 12:10:12 AM	#8
Heist Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,157	this is a cool team and i was going to suggest a few things on irc before you disappeared. ive had a lot of success using skarmory/gastrodon/heatran as a defensive unit to take on weather teams in this round and the previous one. that particular heatran is very effective at doing what it does.. anyway, as i said, and as you agreed, gengar is really thrown onto this team -- it doesnt really add that much to your team and is just compounding already compounded weaknesses, in particular to the dark-type move. and with scarftar usage increasing, hes gonna be able to pick off a couple of your guys as although latias is generally roaring and gengar subbing when they come out, not everything is gonna go your way. you say you really like gengar as a spin-blocker as you dislike forretress although i rarely every run into forretress and if i do 80% of them will have gyro ball which makes quick work of your gengar. yea taunt+wow jellicent would be a cool pkmn to throw in over gengar as it helps against a number of issues [blissey, terrakion, etc] and can also potentially burn a ferrothorn which will make it much easier on latias. speaking of latias, you should definitely try substitute > roar. your main objective is for latios to batter their counters so latias can clean up and roar is definitely more useful early-game, especially if you get the hazards up. substitute will let you come out on top of a large number of threats - eg ferrothorn even with gyro ball can be beaten as substitute evades leech seed. taunt+wow mew with psychic no longer wins as it cant burn you and last-pkmn reuniclus will pretty much never win as you have sub to block against a critical hit. substitute also lets you hide from random burns and toxics from rotom-w, gastrodon and jellicent. substitute still acts as a safety blanket at escaping from pursuit users like ttar. also seconding hp fire suggestion on latios. really cool team man

Jul 16th, 2011, 8:51:01 AM	#11
Bowl Cut Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 118 (:3=	super awesomely cool team m4ngbr0s3lfm8 xd! I would have something creative to say, but I believe everything I was going to say has already been spoken. I like the fact that this team has no weather whatsoever as well as having both Latias and Latios. We might have some sibling rivalry here on who puts in more of that big work. Overall, really nice team.

Jul 16th, 2011, 9:24:40 AM	#12
~~bubbly~~ Banned deucer. Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 884 Australia	Hey BKC :) I'm actually currently running almost exactly the same team as this, except with Jellicent > Gengar and Reuniclus w/ Flame Orb + Trick instead of your Latias. Like everyone else suggested Jellicent > Gengar is better defensively but I actually prefer Gengar to be honest because it works so well offensively with your Lati@s duo. Have to agree with Substitute > Roar on Latias as Heist suggested though. EDIT: woops forgot this, Taunt over Brave Bird on your Skarm could work well, primarily to really make Ferrothorn your bitch. Anyway, its really great to see your teams coming up in the RMT forum again, I actually kinda missed them since 4th gen :)

Jul 16th, 2011, 10:22:07 AM	#14
franky Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,419	hey bkc, seeing how your team works i highly recommend keeping gengar because it just fits in the synergy perfectly. it is able to draw in specially defensive jirachi and tyranitar quite easily- sometimes ferrothorn when your opponent doesn't have any options left. anyways, looking at gengar's role, i think you can definitely try out a simple life orb set on latios with the movesets draco meteor / psycho shock / surf / recover. i think you need the speed as possible to tie with opposing latios because one that wields lo can be a huge pain. the lo set provides you to tear to blissey, easily 2hkoing the most physically defensive variants with one sr down + one spike. it also ohkoes terrakion because surf fails to ohko it under the sand. heavy stall teams have a difficult time dealing with this type of latios so you can give it a shot. as for other options, the last move on latias is quite flexible. however, you'll find that a lot of players will conserve their counter for latias because your synergy is quite detectable. i would consider three moves there but for now, i'd actually give hp fire a shot to actually hit bronzong, jirachi, and scizor. its sweeping lategame anyways, i don't even think you need roar unless reuinclus becomes too problematic. again, its a flexible last slot and its totally changeable to your likings. overall gl.

Jul 16th, 2011, 8:03:18 PM	#16
Trinitrotoluene And we will never be alone again / 'cause it doesn't happen everyday / kinda counted on you being a friend / can I give it up or give it away... Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 721 np: Daft Punk - Instant Crush (feat. Julian Casablancas) Mentor	Hello. I'm that nobody rater sitting in the corner. However, that's besides the point. I took this team out for a spin, and I have a bit to say here. First, this is an absolutely amazing team and is, in my mind, deserving of a spot in the 5th Gen. OU RMT Archive (I won't recommend it though just because I'm a troll like that). Next, the Lati twin concept is pretty cool, if only for the rage-inducing effect it has on the opposition when they see ANOTHER Lati. Finally, Pantera isn't my cup of tea, but if it's yours, then so be it. (Just a polite way of saying that Pantera isn't the best.) Now, onto your team: Heatran: I've tried Toxic over Protect on Heatran, and it's just as good. However, there's those moments where I miss Protect's utility in scouting for a Choiced Pokemon's attack. It's all up to personal preference. Skarmory: I might sound like a noob in recommending Lefties over Shed Shell, but it has its usage. However, it requires more careful playing when Magnezone is seen on the field (thanks JabbaTheGriffin and PK Gaming, now Mag is everywhere...). Taunt is also an option, but it leaves you vulnerable to faster Taunt mons. Gastrodon: I'd try to fit Earth Power in over one of the existing moves, but all of them hold a specific purpose. I'd also consider a physically defensive spread to take on Cloyster better, but then you have Skarmory for that. Gengar: As the others have said, Jellicent is a feasible option here. However, should you decide to skip out on Jellicent and keep Gengar, I'd recommend Disable over Pain Split. It helps against Conkeldurr and Terrakion and also saves you some pain when dealing with enemy Chansey / Blissey. Latios: Can't say much here, but Thunderbolt is an option over Dragon Pulse if one wants to hit Gyarados harder and make it pay for getting to +1. Trick lets you cripple the pink blobs and makes fighting stall much easier (unless they have a ScarfTar). Latias: Hidden Power Fire and Substitute are cool options to consider over Roar, and I also would add to the pool by seconding Refresh. It makes stall unable to touch Latias (as mentioned earlier), and gives you a blanket against status that isn't sleep or freeze. I'll add more later, but my battery charge is running low as it is. 100th post. Woot.