On Plagiarism

**Seven Deadly Sins** · Jul 2nd, 2011, 3:07:46 PM

I'd like to preface this by saying that there's no reason this should even be a thing. The fact that this has already been caught TWICE is extremely disappointing to me, and the fact that I have to make a thread about it is even more disappointing.

We've amassed a gigantic cache of information on-site for Generation 4 over the past couple years, and most or all of it is extremely well-written. Because of this, SOME users have decided that it's a good idea to simply lift prose from these articles or analyses word for word instead of writing their own. This first happened in a series of LC Analyses, but has now been done in a large-scale guide which actually went on-site before it was noticed. (It has subsequently been taken down.)

I shouldn't have to say why this is so ridiculously unacceptable. We give privileges like Pre-Contributor and Contributor, as well as just being well-known for quality analyses on the forum. It's because of this that the theft of prose from analyses is such a problem. I personally find it extremely important that people not receive credit for lifting other people's work from OUR OWN SITE, and this goes double for articles, since they're weighted more when the time comes for rewards and the like.

I was lenient the first time this happened, but I'm done being lenient. If I have to hear from one more person that they noticed a "suspicious similarity" that turned out to be prose lifted directly from our own fourth generation pages, heads will roll.

firecape · Jul 2nd, 2011, 3:26:03 PM

Hi if you're caught doing this you can basically kiss any chance you have of getting a badge goodbye!

**Seven Deadly Sins** · Jul 2nd, 2011, 3:28:52 PM

Oh, and if you have a Ladybug / Pre-Contributor badge and we catch you doing this, it's the fast track to returning to the 0 badge club. Don't do it.

Berserker Lord · Jul 2nd, 2011, 9:29:23 PM

So, if someone who wrote a lot of analyses, and was suddenly caught for plagiarizing, wouldn't it be a good idea to go through what they've done for 5th Generation that is also in 4th generation to see if those analysis's and articles were also plagiarized? Just a thought. Also, would that person still be able to write analysis's and articles or are they barred from doing so?

ShinyAzelf · Jul 2nd, 2011, 9:45:48 PM

I think they'd still be allowed, but they won't be receiving credit for it. As firecape said, you won't be earning a badge anymore if you do this. I guess it is a good idea to check for more plagiarism in other analyses though.

Berserker Lord · Jul 2nd, 2011, 10:00:01 PM

Well, I don't really get the point of still letting them write anything for the site. I'm quite sure that the people who would actually go and plagiarize the work of someone else's here is doing the analses and articles way more for the badge, and not for the stastfication of having written something good, but thats just my view on it.

iDunno · Jul 2nd, 2011, 10:05:49 PM

Smogon is a volunteer based site and if they decide that they are going to straighten up and fly right by writing original work they should have the right to. Something else that would be amazing if it were banned is the parading of your contributions in your signature imo. If you have contributed enough to earn a badge, you probably are going to be noticed regardless of obnoxious self advertising. Plus, some of the things that some people put in their sigs aren't even their original work and are just work that they had "taken over" for somebody who was no longer able to write the analysis. I think that should be considered plagiarism as well, but that's just my opinion...

***bojangles***** · Jul 2nd, 2011, 10:29:43 PM

Plagiarism is, by definition, taking others work as your own and not attributing it to them. Putting things in your signature is not plagiarism. Many people do it so people notice it and go to check in to make comments or suggestions. Aside from the fact that it'd be annoying to enforce, there's no real reason to ban the practice. Rest assured, we notice people's work regardless of how much they put in their signatures.

EDIT: There will be no discussion on the matter. Plagiarism is simply unacceptable. Anyone who plagiarizes will face consequences in addition to infractions.

**verbatim** · Jul 2nd, 2011, 10:52:52 PM

Debadging, can't you ban people from the site for plagiarism?
Maybe you could throw this into the rules and regulations thread.

Also, in most cases wouldn't fourth generation analyzes make no sense in a fifth generation metagame?

**Seven Deadly Sins** · Jul 2nd, 2011, 11:49:04 PM

Yeah, rules thread has been updated with a notice about plagiarism.

Anyway, a site ban is a bit harsh but if a single user makes a habit of it I would be more than happy with a ban from C&C. And yes, it would definitely be grounds for removal or postponement of ALL C&C related badges. No question.

As for "making no sense in a fifth generation metagame" the metagames are closer together than you think. The Diglett analysis that was plagiarized was mainly because Diglett in LC does the same thing in Gen 5 that it does in Gen 4 (20 speed, decent type coverage, traps shit) and the sets are basically identical other than the Hone Claws set, which was added and written from scratch. This is the same for stuff like the BW Doubles article, where things like the difference between singles and doubles teambuilding are discussed, and really havent changed.

**billymills** · Jul 3rd, 2011, 12:04:54 AM

Why is this a problem. If parts of an article still apply under small additions, just let the person writing the new article use the Gen4 article anyway.

If you mean that they are copying the Gen4 articles without bothering to check if it is still applicable, then I completely agree that this would be a problem.

tl;dr Who cares if it's plagiarised.

***Oglemi**** · Jul 3rd, 2011, 12:09:19 AM

I can see what you mean billymills, but it's not fair to the original author. If a person takes your work, and then takes credit for it, that's just wrong.

You can't do it in real life (unless your Bill Gates), and you can't do it in the writing and contribution section of Smogon.

zdrup15 · Jul 3rd, 2011, 6:58:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat billymills

Why is this a problem. If parts of an article still apply under small additions, just let the person writing the new article use the Gen4 article anyway.

If you mean that they are copying the Gen4 articles without bothering to check if it is still applicable, then I completely agree that this would be a problem.

tl;dr Who cares if it's plagiarised.

If I wrote something and someone else used it without giving me credits, I would care! After all, it was my work, not theirs

jrrrrrrr · Jul 3rd, 2011, 7:15:55 AM

Sorry to be the opposing voice as usual, but this is pretty ridiculous. The punishment needs to be much stricter than "you might not get a badge!". Plagiarism is a pretty serious issue, especially since theres a possibility people may be plagiarizing from other sites. I think it should be worth an instant perma-ban if you're caught stealing material. At least now that it's in the rules it's worth an infraction but that doesnt go far enough IMO.

TM13IceBeam · Jul 3rd, 2011, 8:13:36 AM

Wow. And I always thought that doubles article on the BW page looked strangely familiar. Parts like 'shooting yourself in your foot' and what not.

Plagiarism is a serious issue and really, gen 4 metagame might not be relevant to gen 5 meta, so its better to just write the analysis yourself. IMO anyone who is caught plagiarising should be perma-banned from C&C, seeing as they can no longer be trusted to write these.

Badal · Jul 3rd, 2011, 10:31:43 AM

I don't have much say but, I think somewhere (maybe in the formatting guide? idk) it should be made clear that, in terms of content, if something applies in Gen 4 and in Gen 5, it is okay to use it. But not be taken word-by-word. You have to write it up in your own words. I can't remember who it was, I think Gen. And he said it well, if lets say a set from gen 4 still applies, feel free to use it, but the description and everything has to be yours.

Also just to clarify, I just pushed the B/W Doubles through GP so I'm not at fault :3

Queen Kyurem · Jul 3rd, 2011, 1:23:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Oglemi

I can see what you mean billymills, but it's not fair to the original author. If a person takes your work, and then takes credit for it, that's just wrong.

You can't do it in real life (unless your Bill Gates), and you can't do it in the writing and contribution section of Smogon.

This.

At pretty much every academic institution I've been to, the penalty for plagiarism is expulsion. No ifs, no buts. So no, I don't think a flat-out ban is too harsh at all.

Colonel M · Jul 4th, 2011, 12:16:00 AM

I just want to make this clear as a bell: any dumb shit that gets caught with this will love what I have in store for them. Hell you'll love it so much you might not even see straight ever again.

firecape · Jul 4th, 2011, 12:37:58 AM

There is now a special infraction for this offense, forever marking you for all mods to see. It lasts 90 days, for the duration of which you will have ICBB status, which prevents you from making new threads and editing posts.

Think again if you feel the temptation to steal other people's work...

***Great Sage***** · Jul 4th, 2011, 10:03:51 AM

Why was this thread left open?

If you plagiarize, then you will receive a 3-point warning. The other option is an outright ban.

Simple.

Jul 2nd, 2011, 3:07:46 PM	#1
Seven Deadly Sins :D Moderator Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 4,175	On Plagiarism I'd like to preface this by saying that there's no reason this should even be a thing. The fact that this has already been caught TWICE is extremely disappointing to me, and the fact that I have to make a thread about it is even more disappointing. We've amassed a gigantic cache of information on-site for Generation 4 over the past couple years, and most or all of it is extremely well-written. Because of this, SOME users have decided that it's a good idea to simply lift prose from these articles or analyses word for word instead of writing their own. This first happened in a series of LC Analyses, but has now been done in a large-scale guide which actually went on-site before it was noticed. (It has subsequently been taken down.) I shouldn't have to say why this is so ridiculously unacceptable. We give privileges like Pre-Contributor and Contributor, as well as just being well-known for quality analyses on the forum. It's because of this that the theft of prose from analyses is such a problem. I personally find it extremely important that people not receive credit for lifting other people's work from OUR OWN SITE, and this goes double for articles, since they're weighted more when the time comes for rewards and the like. I was lenient the first time this happened, but I'm done being lenient. If I have to hear from one more person that they noticed a "suspicious similarity" that turned out to be prose lifted directly from our own fourth generation pages, heads will roll. __________________

Jul 2nd, 2011, 3:26:03 PM	#2
firecape This is the end... Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,048 This storys old, but it goes on and on until we disappear	Hi if you're caught doing this you can basically kiss any chance you have of getting a badge goodbye! __________________ I DONT DESERVE YOU Last edited by Seven Deadly Sins; Jul 2nd, 2011 at 3:29:51 PM. Reason: de-ninjaing!

Jul 2nd, 2011, 3:28:52 PM	#3
Seven Deadly Sins :D Moderator Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 4,175	Oh, and if you have a Ladybug / Pre-Contributor badge and we catch you doing this, it's the fast track to returning to the 0 badge club. Don't do it. __________________

Jul 2nd, 2011, 10:05:49 PM	#7
iDunno Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 1,134	Smogon is a volunteer based site and if they decide that they are going to straighten up and fly right by writing original work they should have the right to. Something else that would be amazing if it were banned is the parading of your contributions in your signature imo. If you have contributed enough to earn a badge, you probably are going to be noticed regardless of obnoxious self advertising. Plus, some of the things that some people put in their sigs aren't even their original work and are just work that they had "taken over" for somebody who was no longer able to write the analysis. I think that should be considered plagiarism as well, but that's just my opinion... __________________ :3 yum

Jul 2nd, 2011, 10:29:43 PM	#8
*bojangles* IF YOU TRULY BELIEVE, Administrator** Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,885 Location: New York, NY Mentor	Plagiarism is, by definition, taking others work as your own and not attributing it to them. Putting things in your signature is not plagiarism. Many people do it so people notice it and go to check in to make comments or suggestions. Aside from the fact that it'd be annoying to enforce, there's no real reason to ban the practice. Rest assured, we notice people's work regardless of how much they put in their signatures. EDIT: There will be no discussion on the matter. Plagiarism is simply unacceptable. Anyone who plagiarizes will face consequences in addition to infractions. __________________ [12:47pm] TV-Rocka: I want to take a naked pic with just the tigres logo on my... [12:48pm] TV-Rocka: and well, no one of my friend want to take the photo Last edited by bojangles; Jul 2nd, 2011 at 10:44:26 PM.

Jul 2nd, 2011, 9:45:48 PM	#5
ShinyAzelf Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,377 Hong Kong	I think they'd still be allowed, but they won't be receiving credit for it. As firecape said, you won't be earning a badge anymore if you do this. I guess it is a good idea to check for more plagiarism in other analyses though.

Jul 2nd, 2011, 10:52:52 PM	#9
verbatim legends blurred and torn Moderator Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 1,065 United States	Debadging, can't you ban people from the site for plagiarism? Maybe you could throw this into the rules and regulations thread. Also, in most cases wouldn't fourth generation analyzes make no sense in a fifth generation metagame? Last edited by verbatim; Jul 2nd, 2011 at 10:53:36 PM. Reason: Adding helpful suggestion

Jul 2nd, 2011, 11:49:04 PM	#10
Seven Deadly Sins :D Moderator Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 4,175	Yeah, rules thread has been updated with a notice about plagiarism. Anyway, a site ban is a bit harsh but if a single user makes a habit of it I would be more than happy with a ban from C&C. And yes, it would definitely be grounds for removal or postponement of ALL C&C related badges. No question. As for "making no sense in a fifth generation metagame" the metagames are closer together than you think. The Diglett analysis that was plagiarized was mainly because Diglett in LC does the same thing in Gen 5 that it does in Gen 4 (20 speed, decent type coverage, traps shit) and the sets are basically identical other than the Hone Claws set, which was added and written from scratch. This is the same for stuff like the BW Doubles article, where things like the difference between singles and doubles teambuilding are discussed, and really havent changed. __________________

Jul 3rd, 2011, 12:09:19 AM	#12
*Oglemi I crashed my car into the bridge, I don't care Super Moderator** Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 5,523 ~(^.^)~	I can see what you mean billymills, but it's not fair to the original author. If a person takes your work, and then takes credit for it, that's just wrong. You can't do it in real life (unless your Bill Gates), and you can't do it in the writing and contribution section of Smogon. __________________ <shade> what an intense scrotum

Jul 3rd, 2011, 7:15:55 AM	#14
jrrrrrrr wubwubwub Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,118 wubwubwub	Sorry to be the opposing voice as usual, but this is pretty ridiculous. The punishment needs to be much stricter than "you might not get a badge!". Plagiarism is a pretty serious issue, especially since theres a possibility people may be plagiarizing from other sites. I think it should be worth an instant perma-ban if you're caught stealing material. At least now that it's in the rules it's worth an infraction but that doesnt go far enough IMO. __________________ NIGMAN: JRRRR IS A SHIT NIGMAN: HO ESLE THINK IT??

Jul 3rd, 2011, 8:13:36 AM	#15
TM13IceBeam Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 3,246 stuck in the past, locked in the present, banned from the future	Wow. And I always thought that doubles article on the BW page looked strangely familiar. Parts like 'shooting yourself in your foot' and what not. Plagiarism is a serious issue and really, gen 4 metagame might not be relevant to gen 5 meta, so its better to just write the analysis yourself. IMO anyone who is caught plagiarising should be perma-banned from C&C, seeing as they can no longer be trusted to write these. __________________ Start of turn 24 Natu used Grass Knot! It's super effective! The foe's Corsola lost 31% of its health! Riolu ftw Amazing Rotom-S is amazing KAKUNA i'm dead, don't bother contacting me

Jul 3rd, 2011, 10:31:43 AM	#16
Badal Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 1,908	I don't have much say but, I think somewhere (maybe in the formatting guide? idk) it should be made clear that, in terms of content, if something applies in Gen 4 and in Gen 5, it is okay to use it. But not be taken word-by-word. You have to write it up in your own words. I can't remember who it was, I think Gen. And he said it well, if lets say a set from gen 4 still applies, feel free to use it, but the description and everything has to be yours. Also just to clarify, I just pushed the B/W Doubles through GP so I'm not at fault :3 __________________ ^___^

Jul 4th, 2011, 12:37:58 AM	#19
firecape This is the end... Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,048 This storys old, but it goes on and on until we disappear	There is now a special infraction for this offense, forever marking you for all mods to see. It lasts 90 days, for the duration of which you will have ICBB status, which prevents you from making new threads and editing posts. Think again if you feel the temptation to steal other people's work... __________________ I DONT DESERVE YOU

Jul 4th, 2011, 10:03:51 AM	#20
*Great Sage* Administrator** Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 5,872 Boston, MA Mentor	Why was this thread left open? If you plagiarize, then you will receive a 3-point warning. The other option is an outright ban. Simple.