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#1 |
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I'm a macrophage
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,849
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Yay, finished editing!! Enjoy.
Hi all, this is a topic discussing possible NFEs that could be used in the UU tier to good effect. I've used some while playing NU, but I think it would be possible to abuse them further in at least UU. This is a topic that can involve quite a bit of theorymon, but it should promote discussion. As we know there are some "Not Fully Evolved" Pokemon that can be quite successful outside the Official NFE tier, or simply too powerful for it, or just a completely different Pokemon. These are: -Chansey (Special wall in UU) -Clamperl (Special sweeper under Trick Room, using Deepseatooth) -Magneton (Steel trapper) -Pikachu (Light Ball) -Porygon2 (Defensive, offensive) -Scyther (Physical sweeper) -Trapinch (Trapper, outclassed by Dugtrio) -Vigoroth (Different to Slaking) -Wynaut (Uber) We also have two NFEs that are seen consistently on the UU ladder, and these are Hippopotas and Snover, because of their ability to set up permanent weather. However, after looking through the NFE tier, I saw a number of Pokemon that could be used in UU, for all sorts of roles. These Pokemon were what I felt could be used (Pokemon with question marks I don't have much hope for at all though): -Dragonair -Dusclops (Largely outclassed by Spiritomb) -Electabuzz -Gabite -Gligar -Haunter -Kadabra (Outclassed by Alakazam) -Magmar (Faster than Magmortar) -Metang ? -Monferno -Munchlax -Murkrow ? -Pilowswine ? -Rhydon (Outclassed by Rhyperior) -Shelgon ? -Sneasel Tested sets that have been remotely effective: Dragonair: ![]() Dragonair has an analysis up: http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/dragonair 1. Dragon Dancer Dragonair @ Life Orb Ability: Shed Skin EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe Nature Adamant/Jolly - Dragon Dance - Outrage/Dragon Rush - Waterfall/Extremespeed - Extremespeed/Rest I haven't tested this set, but I know others have used to to some good effect. DD allows Dragonair to reach 439 Attack and 358 Speed using an Adamant nature, but Jolly can be used if one wants wants to outspeed Swellow after a DD. Outrage is incredibly powerful after a DD, while Waterfall provides excellent coverage alongside Outrage (albeit unSTAB'd). The final spot is up to the user, Rest to play with lady luck and possibly waking up early due to Shed Skin, but Extremespeed is also an option to pick off priority users (Especially Ambipom if you choose a Jolly nature). Dragonair is incredibly frail, so be wary of that. 2. Mixed Attacker Dragonair @ Life Orb Ability: Shed Skin EVs: 64 Atk/252 SpA/192 Spe (Suggested by Garganator) Nature: Mild - Draco Meteor - Outrage - Fire Blast - Extremespeed/Hidden Power Ground Pretty much the UU MixMence, albeit very, very frail. Draco Meteor dents anything that doesn't resist it (Apart from Chansey). Outrage is to score a clean 2HKO on non-Steel Pokemon that aren't very physically defensive. DM+Outrage can finish off a lot of slower Pokemon. Fire Blast 2HKOs Registeel with a layer of Spikes. Extremespeed can revenge fast, frail sweepers when it needs to (Like Alakazam), but HP Ground allows you to hit Aggron for Super Effective damage. Gabite: ![]() Gabite has a C&C page here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66479 Viable sets: Physical Attacker, Choice Scarf Comments: Pretty straight-forward to run. Outrage/EQ has perfect coverage in UU, so a CB boosted STAB attack WILL hurt. Base 82 Speed trolls a lot of Pokemon like Venusaur too. Gligar ![]() Gligar has an analysis up: http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/gligar Viable sets: Baton Passer, Lead, Defensive, Choice (o_0), SD Comments: Like Gliscor, Gligar do everything, heh. Golbat: (Sorry, just want to creep you out with this sprite)Golbat has an analysis up: http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/golbat 1. Nasty Plot Golbat @ Life Orb Ability: Inner Focus EVs: 4 Def/252 SpA/252 Spe Nature: Timid -Nasty Plot -Air Slash -Heat Wave -Roost/Hidden Power Ground You might be thinking, "lolwut?!", but this thing can actually be quite worth using. While you might be drawn to its terrible Base 65 Special Attack stat, it is good enough to use Nasty Plot with. 229 Special Attack isn't very flashy, but after a Nasty Plot, that 229 Special Attack suddenly becomes 458, which is a whole lot more threatening. Golbat's defenses aren't the best, but they aren't terrible either (75/70/70 are usable, considering his good resistances). Poison/Flying is actually quite a good defensive typing (albeit the Stealth Rock weakness), boasting a resistance to both of Venusaur's STAB while not being Registeel is pretty fantastic (If you can avoid Sleep Powder, it is a great check to Venusaur). It can also switch into Close Combats fired by Hitmonlee and stuff with its 4x resistance to Fighting. Golbat isn't lacking in the Speed department either, Base 90 is tieing with Moltres. Onto the attacks, Air Slash is for STAB, and Heat Wave provides pretty good coverage alongside it. Roost for recovery and Sucker Punch dodging, but Hidden Power Ground lets you hit stuff like Aggron. 2. Brave Bat Golbat @ Life Orb Ability: Inner Focus EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe Nature: Jolly -Brave Bird -U-Turn/Hypnosis/Super Fang -Taunt -Roost Number 2 on the list, but certainly not in terms of viability. Pretty much a Crobat-lite, this thing can dent things, scout, Taunt, and pretty much do everything. Base 80 Attack may not look like much, but LO Brave Bird still hurts quite a lot. U-Turn allows you to scout, Hypnosis is meh, but Super Fang can soften walls for you. Taunt + Super Fang pretty much destroys shit like Registeel and Chansey. I don't think I have to go over Crobat's resistances and ok defenses again, right?? Haunter: HAUNTHAUNTHAUNT1. Life Orb Haunter @ Life Orb Ability: Levitate EVs: 4 Atk/252 SpA/252 Spe Nature: Hasty -Shadow Ball -Thunderbolt -Sludge Bomb/Hidden Power Ground/Explosion -Substitute/Hypnosis Haunter has an analysis up now: http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/haunter Slower than Mismagius, but more powerful with Hypnosis and Explosion. Is a great lure for stuff like Chansey and blowing up on it. Thunderbolt 2HKOs Milotic, while Hypnosis can be used to dodge Sucker Punches. Sludge Bomb is a great secondary STAB, while HP Ground does a lot of damage to Drapion and Skuntank. Machoke: lol boobjiggleMachoke has an analysis up: http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/machoke Viable sets: Anti-lead Comments: Eh, haven't test this much, but it's a good anti-lead since it can DYNAMICPUNCH. That's about it, really. Metang: ![]() Metang has an analysis up: http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/metang 1. Lead Metang @ Focus Sash Ability: Clear Body EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 SpD, IVs: 0 Spe Nature: Brave -Gyro Ball/Meteor Mash -Bullet Punch -Explosion/Earthquake -Stealth Rock Nothing but a reliable Stealth Rock layer, and those who try to Taunt (Ambipom) gets hurt pretty badly by Gyro Ball. Bullet Punch to take out Focus Sash leads (Froslass era, but eh), Explosion to take out nasty threats like Moltres. Monferno: ![]() Monferno has an analysis up: http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/monferno 1. Nasty Plot MixApe Monferno @ Life Orb Ability: Blaze EVs: 4 Atk/252 SpA/252 Spe Nature: Naive -Nasty Plot -Fire Blast -Grass Knot -Close Combat Probably one of the coolest Stallbreakers around. Cuts through MiloSteel + Chansey like butter, and it's not all THAT difficult to get the +2 (Bring it into Chansey or something and force it out), although Dual Screens is recommended. After an NP, Fire Blast OHKOs Registeel, Grass Knot OHKOs Milotic after SR and CC OHKOs Chansey after SR as well. Base 81 Speed means stuff like Venusaur are outsped and OHKO'd before they can do a thing. Just play it like Infernape and it'll be happy. Murkrow: ![]() Murkrow has an analysis up: http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/murkrow 1. Life Orb Murkrow @ Life Orb Ability: Insomnia EVs: 252 Atk/4 SpA/252 Spe Nature: Hasty/Naive -Brave Bird -Hidden Power Grass -Sucker Punch -Heat Wave Props to Overhazard for this set, and props to Alchemator for writing it up. Piloswine: ![]() Piloswine has an analysis up: http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/piloswine Shelgon: ![]() Shelgon has an analysis up <3 (He's like my little baby): http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/shelgon 1. Dragon Dancer Shelgon @ Life Orb/Leftovers Ability: Rock Head EVs: 28 HP/252 Atk/228 Spe Nature: Adamant/Jolly -Dragon Dance -Outrage -Brick Break -Dragon Claw/Substitute Boasts the strongest Outrage in the UU metagame, but poor Speed lets it down. Outrage + Brick Break 2HKOs everything after a DD. Dragon Claw is so you don't have to lock yourself in early, but Sub can prevent status and a potential revenge kill. Give it some paralysis support and it'll be happy. 2. Wish Passer Shelgon @ Leftovers Ability: Rock Head EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 Def Nature: Impish -Wish -Protect -Dragon Claw -Roar/Toxic/Brick Break Simple Wish-passing set, but is quite effective. Can survive a myriad of physical assaults like +2 Absol's Night Slash, Head Smash from Aggron, Facade from Swellow and so on. Sneasel: ![]() Sneasel has an analysis up: http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/sneasel Viable sets: Revenge Killer (Choice Band), Anti-Lead (Not so awesome since Froslass is banned), SD (o_0) Comments: Great Pokemon whose viability dipped a little since Froslass got banned, which is a shame. CB is still pretty good though. Tangela: ![]() Tangela has an analysis up: http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/tangela 1. Sunny Day Sweeper Tangela @ Life Orb Ability: Chlorophyll EVs: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe Nature: Timid -Solarbeam/Energy Ball -Ancientpower -Sleep Powder -Hidden Power Fire/Hidden Power Ground/Synthesis/Sunny Day Unlike Tangrowth, Tangela gets base 60 Speed, which means after a Chlorophyll boost, it outspeeds Scarf 95s!! It's got good Special Attack, and Base 115 Defense isn't shabby either. With max speed, it can outspeed neutral base 70s before a boost. So, there we have some NFEs that can have some potential in the UU metagame. Try some yourself, and post here if you find some good results, or confirm that some just don't work. If you theorymon up something, please raise it up so I can consider testing it. If you have a good experience with using an NFE in UU, go right ahead and share it with us!! Last edited by shrang; Jul 10th, 2011 at 9:54:43 PM. Reason: Updating with more current information |
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#2 |
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 33
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Most of the NFEs that I've seen used in UU are mostly just futile attempts to replicate what their evolutions are able to in OU. Their evolutions usually have much better stats which is why they succeed in OU, and using their pre-evolutions who have inferior stats to try and do the same thing in UU just doesn't work (eg. Metang's 75 base Atk compared to Metagross' 135 base Atk). Chansey, Magneton and Scyther are pretty much the few NFEs that can be used successfully in UU, and that's only because their stats don't increase by a lot upon evolution, which means they don't differ too much from their evolutions. In fact, Scyther and Scizor have the same BST, just that 40 points are taken from Speed and put into Atk and Def equally.
That being said though, I've been using Dusclops to quite some success on my stall team, and one advantage it has over Spiritomb is higher defenses overall. I've had one match where my opponent used a Scarf Haunter as a revenge killer, and that was pretty nice as well, although right now you'd be better off running Scarf-Z. The others really can't do much in UU. ...but that Sneasel anti-lead does look interesting. |
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#3 |
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 926
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i like the sneasel anti-lead. ive fooled around with a sub Machoke in uu before (sub dynamic punch, and rockslide/tpunch/bpunch for the last 2 moves), its not that bad.
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"If you don't got haters you aren't doing something right" - Kevin Durant |
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#4 |
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My appearance, ability, and awesomeness strike fear into the hearts of any sane battler and my thorny vines drop the opposing forces just an iron ball plowing into a man's genitals.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,302
Bloo's fancy mansion
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Shouldn't Sneasel's defense be as low as possible to deal more damage with Counter? Even though it's not needed to KO Ambi, it might help against something later in the game, in case they do not fall for your trick and your sash is still intact.
Edit: You can hit something really hard on the switch if Uxie happens to U-turn you, most likely guaranteeing a kill, unless the incoming poké is a Chansey (lol) or a Ghost type.
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#5 |
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,084
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I used to use a Sneasel lead in NU, because it was the fastest Pokemon in the tier (until Electrode got dropped down last week).
I do believe some NFEs are a bit overlooked though. I mean, look at Kadabra and Alakazam. Alakazam only has base 15 more than Kadabra on Special Attack and Speed, and Focus Blast. Yes, those are quite important advantages, but is it really so much that Alakazam should be getting about 20 times the usage Kadabra used to get? A similar thing can be said for Rhydon and Rhyperior. Their stats are shockingly similar. Rhyperior gets Solid Rock. And I can bet everyone, if Dusknoir ever becomes UU, a similar thing will happen. Defensively, it's only marginally better than Dusclops, but I'd bet a lot that Dusknoir would get into the top 20. A lot of people would just say it's because of Duskonir's extra Attack though. Also, it's not appropriate for all NFEs to copy the strategies of their evolutions. For example, Metang is not a mini-Metagross. If you look at its stats, it's more of a mini-Bronzong, with Metagross's ability and movepool.
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Shedinja fainted! |
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#6 |
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 248
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Some NFE's are used in NU, but the just seem outclassed in UU for the most part.
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hey that second guy isn't too bad
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 230
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Anyway, this argument does remind me of something else: HP Bug vs. Signal Beam. I see a lot of people discussing the best move for Cress to accompany Psychic, and Signal Beam seems like a popular choice. However, when Cress was OU and before it got Signal Beam, I never saw HP Bug on any set that it had. The only difference is 5 Base Power and 10% chance to confuse, so I find it odd how the usefulness of a bug attack jumps so much with such small increases. And don't just say 'HP bug sucks in OU' because a lot of other Pokemon got Signal Beam too, like Jolteon Celebi etc. Eh got a bit off-topic there. I have used CB Scyther and it is amazing. A hard-hitting U-turn (Swellow's isn't that good) just works so well, and then it has Aerial Ace to clean up. Also Brick Break is huge, and Swellow is lacking it. Porygon2 isn't very good at all in this meta, though. :( |
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#8 |
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 141
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Magmar and Magmortar have the same atk stat.
NFE's are too heavily overshadowed =( Only chansey and weather starters can shine. |
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#9 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,084
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It's a good analogy with the Signal Beam/HP Bug. I think a lot of people look at battling in a qualitative fashion, rather than a quantitative fashion. Pokemon is just a bunch of numbers. The tag "NFE" means nothing. Saying a Pokemon is useless because it's NFE is similar to saying a Pokemon should be Uber because it's a legendary. It's just labels that Game Freak attached to Pokemon.
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Shedinja fainted! |
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#10 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,679
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Yes. Of course. |
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#11 | ||
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 376
Right Behind You
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Ok, this has been bothering me for a bit, and I was wondering ...
how much would Gabite change UU? It's has better Att and Speed stats than Altaria, and a similar movepool to its big brother Garchomp, with Dragon Dance, Outrage, Stone Edge, and Earthquake. Sure, its defenses and Spe Att are abysmal, but it could conceivably get a DDance and kill most non-Skarfers. And since its NVE, doesn't it technically qualify for NU?
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#12 |
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 530
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Gabite does not have access to Dragon Dance.
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The Congregation lies. |
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#13 | ||
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 376
Right Behind You
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Or not: sorry, I misread the analysis of Gabites moves. Guess Gabite is useless after all (lol).
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#14 | |
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I'm a macrophage
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,849
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Gabite @ Choice Scarf Ability: Sand Veil EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Outrage - Dragon Claw - Earthquake - Stone Edge With this set, Gabite reaches 306 Attack and 394 Speed, which is pretty good for UU. You can run Jolly if you want to tie with Neutral +1 95s like Houndoom running a Scarf. Due to the lack of Bronzong and Skarmory in UU, Dragon/Ground has perfect coverage. You can use this as a decent revenge killer and a great late game cleaner with its unresisted dual-STAB. |
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#15 |
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 400
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Do all of those meet the NFE criteria? I thought NFE pokes were ones that could get to level 100 because they don't evolve via leveling up.(ie scyther can be brought to lv100 because it needs an item to evolve to scizor).
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#16 |
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I'm a macrophage
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,849
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No, you just press B or give the Pokemon an Everstone to stop them evolving.
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#17 |
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 177
UK
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NFEs are used in UU; chansey, rotom and (id say) magneton are all used and are viable in UU.
I have tried the dragon dance dragonair and i dont think it works well, maybe its the lack of bulk or maybe its that even with dragon dances you still arent OHKOing too many things. However, this set works wonders in UU (actually i may post this in the creative sets)... Dragonair @ Life Orb Ability: Shed Skin EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SpD Careful nature (+SpD, -SAtk) - Dragon Rush - TWave - Light Screen - Rest Light screen lets it take more special attacks, Twave and Dragon Rush creates a paraflinch combo which can desimate the often physcially weak special attackers. Near immunity to status and only one weakness are also valuable on walls. Even if this isnt the best special wall, i think it is at least original. |
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#18 |
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 341
Free time travel! Only AUS$1000 per trip!
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Rotom isn't NFE flashbolt.
EDIT: Also, we neglect Porygon-2's use in UU or even OU. |
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#19 | ||
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 540
Koszalin, Poland
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About CB Sneasel - I would find spot for Bite. He really needs a bit more power to hit some neutral targets for more damage. Otherwise it's not bad set, but taking out SR is a must. I remember when I tested for Wish Shelgon. Just Max HP/Max Def to take physical hits. It's solid check to Arcanine without Toxic, Blaziken (watch out on HP Ice) and even Kangashkan and few other physical attackers. Well, Shelgon has Gligar like physical defence, so it's not frail like some may think. If you need physically defensive Wish passer, Shelgon isn't bad. Not great, but solid enough. Quote:
About Piloswine - someone in the past (in Yanmega era) used Piloswine lead to beat Yanmega lead with strong Ice Shard. Also it has good enough attack (the same as Tauros) and great STAB to use. And SR to throw at lead. I think it has some potential. And Dusclops - I think it's not outclassed. For first it has better overall defences then Spiritomb. Another problem for Spiritomb is facing Foresight Hitmontop - it won't enjoy taking STAB Close Combat, against which Dusclops is fine, so Spiritomb looses anyway. Being Pursuit weak is not great, but I guess you may play around it. Also WoW is good enough to keep in check few physical attackers. If you looks for bulkier spin blocker, Dusclops is fine choice for UU. Spiritomb is bulky, but not that bulky. Your choice I guess ;). And Gabite - Choice Bander isn't bad (however it's slow), but with his great resistances and immunity to electric attacks (and also SR resist) he may switch in and hit quite hard for UU standard. I think it's better set then Scarf IMO.
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"Fight Till The End" Garganator vs Krusk (UU Warstory) Last edited by Garganator; Feb 3rd, 2010 at 4:42:22 AM. |
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#20 |
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 556
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There are only a few Pokemon in UU which outspeed 81. Few of them are sturdy and most don't like taking strong Fire or Fighting attacks. What does this mean?
Monferno. Monferno (M) @ Choice Band Ability: Blaze EVs: 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Close Combat - U-turn/Rock Slide - Mach Punch - Flare Blitz/Blaze Kick First off, an analysis of 80+ Base Speed Pokemon in UU. Swellow: Can't switch in on any move except U-Turn. Alakazam: Can't switch in on any move but Mach Punch and maybe Close Combat. Dugtrio: Can't switch in on any attack. Loses to Mach Punch. Sceptile: Cannot switch in on Monferno. Ambipom: Cannot switch in on Monferno. Raikou: Scares Monferno out. Offensive CM versions are in trouble, though. Frosslass: Has to switch in to Fighting move. May not be able to OHKO back with Ice Beam? IDK. Mismagius: Has to switch in on Fighting Move or U-Turn. Scyther: Has to switch in on Fighting Move or U-Turn Arcanine: Counters set well. Drapion: Has to switch in on Rock Slide or Flare Blitz. Houndoom: Has to switch in on Flare Blitz. Leafeon: Doesn't like taking any attack. Uxie: Can switch in with Impunity. Rotom: Counters this set. Moltres: Rock Slide can be run to hit this and kill it on the switch. Stealth Rock to keep this thing from countering. Porgon-Z: Can't take a Mach Punch/Close Combat. Hitmonlee: Can't switch in. Cresselia: Wins unless it switches into Flare Blitz. Nidoking: Wins unless it comes in to Flare Blitz. Gwilfish: Wins. Toxicroak: Doesn't like taking any hit with it's meh defenses, weak to Flare Blitz w/ Dry Skin. Milotic: Wins unless it comes in to Close Combat. Sits at 81 Speed and so is beaten without max Speed EV investment. The basic idea is much the same as Infernape in OU. Come in, smash stuff with strong attacks, die. 81 Base Speed outruns most un-Scarfed mon in UU, Flare Blitz/Close Combat does great STAB damage, Mach Punch is priority and U-Turn either gets you out of there or Rock Slide for SE against Flying w/o Flare Blitz recoil. Mach Punch makes the whole set work, taking things like Dugtrio and Swellow down for the count. Registeel falls to Flare Blitz or Close Combat and Regirock dislikes Close Combat. I don't know a lot about UU, but here's some Calcs I ran w/ Smogon's Damage Calc VS. what might be common walls(IDK?). Flare Blitz vs. Standard Rapid Spin Donphan: 74.6% - 88%(10%~ chance to OHKO w/ Stealth Rock on the switch) Flare Blitz vs. Standard Support Uxie: 58.5% - 68.9%(Guarenteed 2HKO w/ Stealth Rock?) Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP/252 DEF Bold Mismagius: 104.6% - 123.1%(Cannot come in and KO) Flare Blitz vs. Standard Rapid Spin Hitmontop after Intimidate: 78.3% - 92.8% Flare Blitz vs. Standard DD Altaria: 60.8% - 71.8%(2HKO w/ Stealth Rock. Cannot safely come in to set up) Flare Blitz vs. Standard Defensive Altaria: 43.2% - 50.8%(Generally wins w/ Stealth Rock. Altaria wins like 95% of the time w/o SR) Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP/252 DEF Bold Cresselia: 49.3% - 58.1%(2HKO w/ Stealth Rock) Flare Blitz vs. Standard Cloyster: 61.2% - 72.4% Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP/252 DEF Bold Weezing: 65.6% - 77.2% Flare Blitz vs. UU Tank Nidoqueen: 76.8% - 90.6% Flare Blitz vs. Spiker Nidoqueen: 70.6% - 83.1% Mach Punch vs. Standard Guts Swellow: 66.7% - 78.5%(Chance to OHKO w/ Stealth Rock. Same damage to CBer.) Mach Punch vs. Standard Revenge Dugtrio: 93.9% - 110.8%(Dugtrio cannot revenge Monferno if Mach Punch was used to KO.) Mach Punch vs. Standard Offensive CM Raikou: 45% - 53.4%(Chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock. Dunno the %, but probably low) U-Turn vs. 252 HP/252 DEF Cresselai: 38.3% - 45.5% U-Turn vs. Standard Support Uxie: 45.8% - 54.2% U-Turn vs. Rest Talk Milotic: 31.5% - 37.3% U-Turn vs. Screen Support Milotic: 28.7% - 33.8% U-Turn vs. Physical Tank Slowbro: 45.7% - 54.3% Rock Slide vs. Stall Moltres: 127.4% - 150.4% Rock Slide vs. Standard Cloyster: 52% - 61.2% Close Combat vs. Phsyical Wall Hariyama: 75.5% - 88.9%(Guarenteed 2HKO) Close Combat vs. Offensive Booster Raikou: 135.4% - 159.6% Close Combat vs. Defensive Booster Raikou: 129% - 152.1% Close Combat vs. 252 HP/252 DEF Bold Raikou: 77.3% - 91.4% Close Combat vs. Standard Tank Regirock: 102.2% - 120.9% Close Combat vs. Standard UU Tank Registeel: 133.5% - 157.1% Close Combat vs. 252 HP/252 DEF Bold Milotic: 73.1% - 86.3%(2HKO and Outsped) Close Combat vs. 252 HP/252 DEF Bold Blastoise: 68.2% - 80.7%(Outsped and 2HKO'd) Close Combat vs. Choice Band Rhyperior: 110.8% - 131% Close Combat vs. Standard Supporting Tank Rhyperior: 75% - 88.4% Sorry for the Calc overload, but I don't know the common walls of UU, so I basically just ran calcs against things with high defense and such. Some impressive feats include 2HKOing the most defensive Cress w/ Stealth Rock, and OHKOing most Regirock and Registeel. However, this set requires a lot of prediction, due to Monfenro's base 64/52/52 defenses. It won't last long due to this and Flare Blitz recoil, in addition to Stealth Rock, but it will do a lot of damage while it's around. This is best utilized with a Rapid Spinner, to clear rocks so Monferno can switch in more safely, or a Wisher, to possibly heal Monferno for a second round. Monferno can also serve as a Revenge Killer with Mach Punch or with it's other moves if the opponent isn't super fast or speed boosted. Blaze Kick can be run over Flare Blitz if you want your Monferno to last a little longer, but you miss out on a lot of critical 2HKOs/OHKOs if you do this and Monferno won't last long anyway, so this isn't recommended. U-Turn vs. Rock Slide is a choice of team support. If you have enough ways to deal with flyers and Moltres, or have a powerful set-up sweeper, U-Turn can be used to deal good damage and pivot out to an appropriate counter. However, Rock Slide can be used for better type coverage and the ability to kill Moltres. I haven't tested this yet, but I think it shows promise. You could also try a Nasty Plot Monferno or MixFerno, but I don't think Monferno can pull it off. Any thoughts on this? I didn't do any NU Pokemon due to it being 4:41 AM and not having the time, so things like Electrode were missed. I might do more tomorrow if anything notable is brought up to me as missed.
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"'Let me give you some advice, Captain,' he said, 'It may help you to make sense of the world. I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are the good people and the bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides.'" — Lord Vetinari, Guards! Guards! |
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#21 |
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 61
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Most of the NFE Pokemon usable in UU are just Pokemon that GameFreak had originally intended to be fully evolved but decided to evolve them in a later generation. I could never really grasp how anyone could compare those Pokemon with Pokemon that were always intended to be NFE, like Kadabra. Is it really a fair playing field to call the Pokemon of the first category NFE? Some of these Pokemon have decent BSTs. For example, Scyther has a BST of 500 and acess to two stats 100 and above. That's better than a variety of stage two Pokemon already! Pokemon like Rhydon and Magneton and Duskclops really deserve a separate category of their own.
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#22 |
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 341
Free time travel! Only AUS$1000 per trip!
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But what would you call such a tier/category?
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#23 |
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,123
RW's avatar > James Cameron's Avatar
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#24 |
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 177
UK
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NNFE (Newly Not Fully Evolved)? I dont think the name of the tier is the biggest problem..
I know Rotom isnt NFE but the opening post implied we can include him. |
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#25 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,084
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Quote:
And about Rotom, in a competitive sense, it's more of an NFE than Scyther is. Infact, there's stuff like Sableye who's so incredibly outclassed that it may aswell be considered an NFE. Sableye may've one or two very situational advantages, but so do most NFEs (e.g. Dusclops has a more effective Pain Split than Dusknoir, and is faster in Trick Room, Rhydon can use Double-Edge and take no recoil, Chansey's Counter does more damage than Blissey's, Magneton has 10 more base Speed than Magnezone, etc.)
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Shedinja fainted! |
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