Matchup Chart

[CRASHiC]

One of the most useful tools to a fighting game player is the Match up Chart. Now, I'm still in the learning process so I won't be acting as an authority by any means, I'd just like to get the discussion moving.

[Cartoons!]

TGM suggested a system like Touhou's.

A character is rated simply as having a favorable (+2), unfavorable(+0), or even(+1) match-up to each other.

The score is tallied and measured against that character total number. It's simple and you don't have to worry about assigning arbitrary numbers to any particular match-up.

If I were to assign Pyroak and Vitalimar numbers for example:

Oak:

Ohm Fid Ant VD Rev Gem Kril Soil Kit Arg Vit Skul Casc Total
1 __ 1 __ 2 _1__ 2 __ 2 __0__1_ 1 _ 2 _ 2 __ 1 __2__ 18(+4)

Vit:

Oak Ohm Fid Ant VD Rev Kril Soil Kit Arg Skul Casc Total
1 __ 0 __ 1 _ 0 _ 1 _ 0 _ 0 _ 2 _ 1 _ 1 _ 1 _ 0 ___ 8(-6)

All these assignments are, of course, based on what I've seen, but it's an interesting system and I'd like to see how others might compose their charts.

[TheGamaniac]

Well, I think i'd pretty much count as the closest thing to an authority on BatCap, so I've given it a shot. I highly suspect this to be somewhat different to what a lot of other people think, but that's kind of the point... Discuss, debate, argue, CapBattle, simply say a potential reason otherwise... because I'm only one guy.

http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/...apMatchups.png

The end results as far as I can figure the letter rankings to go:

A+: Oak
A: Doom, Kril
A-: Ant, Argh
B+: Fid, Ohm
B: Casc, Gem, Rev, Skull, Soil
B-: Kit, Vit

The main two i suspect differeing opinions on:

- Skull actually loses to a number of characters in staying out, and has a little bit of trouble getting in to work the j.B magic without the somewhat predictable C-Bone Club. And he has no actual reversal to get people off of him, unless they time things wrong or he has super stocked (when it buidls terribly slowly off of getting hit). I'd actually venture to say that C-Club is one of the more subtle reasons people see him as a great character, moreso than Rangs and j.B.

- Krilowatt, though he has short overall range and a low healthpool, can get under a lot of things with either 2C or just plain forward dashing. He also has a great reversal in A-Spark, an EVIL ambiguous crossup on wakeup in his Dive shenanigans which tend to hit at an angle that very few anti-airs can actually catch. General safety on block and a half-decent projectile pestering game just end up making him a versatile and powerful character, potentially one of the best.

[UltiMario]

I sort of like the 100-point match-up chart style better than 012- it gives a bit more depth to the match-up, as some match-ups (like Skull or Doom vs Rev) are extremely difficult, and as such 8:2 or 7:3, where others like Doom vs Casc is more like 6:4, it would certainly make a more accurate tier list- it would actually change the tier placement a little bit. . Skull would be higher- his bad match-ups are actually pretty even, and most of his of his "bad" match-ups as you say really should be even, like Skull vs Doom, plus "evens" like Skull vs Gem are def in Skull's favor.. Arg would move around because his better match-ups vary to the lower end typically. Krill too, honestly Krill is NOT A tier, and it should be obvious. He has a few good match-ups, but they're not really skewed horribly like some Doom and Oak match-ups are, and he has sort of that "skill barrier" coming up again, all of Krill's tricks are void if you.... block. That's really what it comes down to, just blocking when you need to. Krill's job is to catch you blocking in the wrong direction but if you can memorize his highs and lows he's pretty pathetic. Just "good" and just "bad" is a good placeholder for now, but we definitely need to clean it up to a more accurate chart in the future.

Other than that... I'm not sure how I feel about Soil's placement, but I don't play him or play against him enough to really make judgment.

Also, it annoys me when you use +/- Etc, I know it "shows" a balanced game, but seriously, SABCDE. Each tier should be separated for a reason- a gap in character quality. While the + numbers have a very small difference- we have a very small cast, so just a change of like... 2 is equivalent to a larger cast with a larger change, making SABCDE more appropriate for letter tiers.

[masterful]

I really think the idea of a touhou-style chart just oversimplifies things. It is important to consider the severity of the favorable and unfavorable matchups. Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see why an out-of-10 chart wouldn't be better

[Xaqwais]

We don't have enough players to accurately figure out if something is a 8:2 vs a 7:3. The advantage, neutral, or disadvantage system is less specific, but allows for more probable consensus between players, which is what we need with so few players.

There's nothing wrong with attempting the out of 10 chart, but keep in mind that subjectivity comes in much more with that, which is why I like the Soku style for our situation.

That being said I got 12 (-1) for both Fidgit and Gem. Abstained from other chars 'cause for even the ones I do play, I don't know the matchups well enough.

[Eji]

Originally Posted by Fat TheGamaniac

Well, I think i'd pretty much count as the closest thing to an authority on BatCap, so I've given it a shot. I highly suspect this to be somewhat different to what a lot of other people think, but that's kind of the point... Discuss, debate, argue, CapBattle, simply say a potential reason otherwise... because I'm only one guy.

http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/...apMatchups.png

The end results as far as I can figure the letter rankings to go:

A+: Oak
A: Doom, Kril
A-: Ant, Argh
B+: Fid, Ohm
B: Casc, Gem, Rev, Skull, Soil
B-: Kit, Vit

The main two i suspect differeing opinions on:

- Skull actually loses to a number of characters in staying out, and has a little bit of trouble getting in to work the j.B magic without the somewhat predictable C-Bone Club. And he has no actual reversal to get people off of him, unless they time things wrong or he has super stocked (when it buidls terribly slowly off of getting hit). I'd actually venture to say that C-Club is one of the more subtle reasons people see him as a great character, moreso than Rangs and j.B.

- Krilowatt, though he has short overall range and a low healthpool, can get under a lot of things with either 2C or just plain forward dashing. He also has a great reversal in A-Spark, an EVIL ambiguous crossup on wakeup in his Dive shenanigans which tend to hit at an angle that very few anti-airs can actually catch. General safety on block and a half-decent projectile pestering game just end up making him a versatile and powerful character, potentially one of the best.

Couple thoughts on the matches we palyed, and skull in general.

Yeah he's weaker, but i think a HUGE factor in this is C punch getting nerf. The wallbounce meant a few pokes with it and you had corner pressure which he craves, and let him set up rangs easier.

Other than that i can see how the matchpus are hard since he comes off more as bison than ST Akuma. All the pressure in the world but can't handle getting knocked down. Sadly his dmg isn't that great anymore(Not that i could land a combo to save my life that game with the lag and lack of skill) but his tick setups and mixups are still pretty damn evil.

Edit:
I'd actually like your thoughts on what little pressure i did apply. I think his A rang mixups are his main game now for corner, and if i could've maximized dmg some of those matches wouldn't have been so bad.