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Old Sep 5th, 2011, 7:25:17 PM   #1
Deck Knight
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Default CAP 5th Generation Revamp Main Thread

This thread will be lengthy and very process oriented, so here's how we're going to go about it.

Do NOT Discuss Tomohawk, please. Tomohawk was created as a Fifth Generation Pokemon, and it will stay as such. It functions perfectly fine, and it was not denied any Fifth Generation goodies as some of the other CAPs were. Any posts that focus on Tomohawk will be deleted. If you feel that strongly about Tomohawk, then please discuss it on IRC/though PM with myself or Deck_Knight. Thanks, Kaxtar.

Because CAP ASB follows canon of the CAP Project, all 4th Generation moves the CAPs possess will be maintained. As such, this project will involve deciding 3 aspects of each 4th Generation CAP Pokemon:

1. 5th Generation Additions

These will be moves added in the 5th generation.

2. Hidden Abilities


Each CAP will go through a public process of deciding a Hidden Ability consistent with that CAP's Concept, if any.

3. Older Gen Level-up only moves

Moves that can only be obtained by level-up in older generations (including RBY/GSC/ADV Gen TMs/Tutors, which are obv. not applicable to 4th Gen Pokemon)

Any other element (stats, Height/Weight, etc.) is not up for discussion and will remain with the original design of the creators of each CAP Prevo.

Each CAP and its concept will be provided below. A working order will be established based on the most pressing concern.

Notes on any moves lost in the process: A player will be reimbursed for the value of the MC of any move lost in the process. The removal of a Hidden Ability will result in 5 additional MC to reimburse the apportioned DC. Otherwise, no other reimbursements will take place.

Which brings us to 4th Gen CAPs and their concepts:

CAP 1: Syclant
Concept: Infernape-like mixed attacker with a strong offensive type.

CAP 2: Revenankh
Concept: Swampert-like balanced Pokemon with unresisted STABs
Completed Revenankh



CAP 3: Pyroak
Concept: Bulky special-attacker with unique defensive typing
Completed Pyroak Line


Cap 4: Fidgit
Concept: Pure Utility Pokemon
Completed Fidgit Line



Cap 5: Stratagem
Concept: Break the Mold (Defies the stereotypes for Pokemon of its type)

Cap 6: Arghonaut
Concept: Decentralizer (Checks the majority of the top 5 Pokemon)
Completed Arghonaut Line



CAP 7: Kitsunoh
Concept: Ultimate Scout (Excels at gathering information about the opponent's team)
Completed Kitsunoh Line


CAP 8: Cyclohm
Concept: Neglected Ability (Useful abilities that aren't featured on a strong OU Pokemon)
Completed Cyclohm Line


CAP 9: Colossoil
Concept: Stop the Secondary (Punish hazards and other secondary forms of damage)
Completed Colossoil Line



CAP 10: Krillowatt
Concept: Utility Counter (be able to stop several threatening Pokemon, but not all at once.)

CAP 11: Voodoom
Concept: Perfect Mate (A Pokemon that combines well with other Pokemon to from offensive synergy. Togekiss was selected during the process.)

So with that out of the way, lets get to deciding the first Pokemon to pick.

Due solely to its popularity and continued complaints, Cyclohm will be the first Pokemon to be revised. The rest will be considered here based on your input. Please explain why that Pokemon should be next, not what you want to add to it. Remember that the pre-vos will also be revamped along with them.

Below a list of links to each revamp thread will be provided:


Cyclohm Revamp
Pyroak Revamp
Kitsunoh Revamp
Arghonaut Revamp
Revenankh Revamp
Fidgit Revamp
Colossoil Revamp
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[17:53] <&Deck_Knight> If I Cite and Prune CiteandPrune's post, what does that make me?
[17:54] <Birkal> a citeandprune cite and prunner
[17:54] <%DHR> O_o lol
[17:54] <+Mos_Quitoxe> Cite and Prune doesn't do enough of either
[17:55] <+Mos_Quitoxe> can we make him change it or force him to pay damages
[17:55] <&Deck_Knight> It would be a lot easier for him to Cite and Prune if we made him a mod.
[17:56] <&Deck_Knight> I delegate this task to Birkal.
[17:57] <Birkal> >:|

Last edited by Deck Knight; May 29th, 2012 at 12:23:45 AM.
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Old Sep 6th, 2011, 12:46:35 AM   #2
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Think I'll close this for a bit since each mon will have its own thread.

OK, the thread is now reopening. What I want to do is drive discussing as to which CAP Pokemon will be next.

The next thread will be Pyroak, you may discuss it there when the thread goes up.

Otherwise, please use your posts to try and assemble a priority list for the remaining 8 CAPs. Focus on movepool creep (or lack thereof), power issues, or anything else that has been added in the 5th generation that doesn't fit.
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[17:53] <&Deck_Knight> If I Cite and Prune CiteandPrune's post, what does that make me?
[17:54] <Birkal> a citeandprune cite and prunner
[17:54] <%DHR> O_o lol
[17:54] <+Mos_Quitoxe> Cite and Prune doesn't do enough of either
[17:55] <+Mos_Quitoxe> can we make him change it or force him to pay damages
[17:55] <&Deck_Knight> It would be a lot easier for him to Cite and Prune if we made him a mod.
[17:56] <&Deck_Knight> I delegate this task to Birkal.
[17:57] <Birkal> >:|

Last edited by Deck Knight; Sep 9th, 2011 at 5:50:36 PM.
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Old Sep 9th, 2011, 7:13:51 PM   #3
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1. Syclant is fairly low-priority IMO-it honestly dies VERY easily to Fire-type moves (which more and more things get), and thanks to the Mountaineer changes it's theoretically easier to kill. That being said, I haven't used String Shot for RPing yet...
2. Krill is medium priority. I would guess that the substitution rules hurt its ability to CounterCoat efficiently, while opponents can easily Dig Krill to death.
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Old Sep 9th, 2011, 7:30:40 PM   #4
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I think Kitsunoh should get medium-high priority. Changes to priority moves, giving Perish Song -1 priority and the proliferation of fire/ground type moves have taken some of the punch out of kitsunoh's scouting and offensive capabilities.
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Old Sep 11th, 2011, 9:19:31 PM   #5
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I think Kitsunoh should get highest priority outside of the ones already done, because it's the one I see most often.

End of story.
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Old Sep 13th, 2011, 11:06:17 PM   #6
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imo, Rvenankh and Arghonaut could both use a little bit of attention. Other than those, Kitsunoh and Perish Song deserve a good looking in to as well.
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Old Sep 13th, 2011, 11:16:22 PM   #7
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^
Perish song was already nerfed by making it -1 (meaning anything with taunt will get rid of it), still kitsunoh is the most popular CAP behind Cyclohm and it's a very interesting pokemon, a revamp could be welcomed
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Old Sep 18th, 2011, 4:09:38 PM   #8
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Kitsuoh's thread is up.

Which CAP should go after Kitsunoh?
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[17:53] <&Deck_Knight> If I Cite and Prune CiteandPrune's post, what does that make me?
[17:54] <Birkal> a citeandprune cite and prunner
[17:54] <%DHR> O_o lol
[17:54] <+Mos_Quitoxe> Cite and Prune doesn't do enough of either
[17:55] <+Mos_Quitoxe> can we make him change it or force him to pay damages
[17:55] <&Deck_Knight> It would be a lot easier for him to Cite and Prune if we made him a mod.
[17:56] <&Deck_Knight> I delegate this task to Birkal.
[17:57] <Birkal> >:|
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Old Sep 18th, 2011, 4:17:09 PM   #9
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Arghonaut and Rev are the most underwhelming CAPs ATM, so I feel that they should be given the most attention, now that cychlom and oak have been addressed. Failing that, Krilowatt has also been considered "broken" at times, so maybe it deserves a thread soon.
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Old Sep 18th, 2011, 4:48:25 PM   #10
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I definetly vote for Revenankh or Arghonaut. Krillowat doesn't seem to bad (atm, at least), so we should look at some of the more underwhelming 'mons first.
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Old Sep 18th, 2011, 10:48:49 PM   #11
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I'd actually say that Voodoom is the most underwhelming of the CAPs, personally. Rev and Argh are both pretty good. Voodoom, well I'm not sure simply because I haven't seem him enough to decide, but that should say something about it. I wouldn't mind any of the three, but I think Voodoom should at least be considered.
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Old Sep 22nd, 2011, 1:48:56 PM   #12
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I have a question regarding this progress: If changes are made while a trainer has a CAP in battle/roleplay, do the changes take effect immediately, or after the battle/roleplay has finished?
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Old Sep 22nd, 2011, 3:54:15 PM   #13
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After the battle/rollplay is over.
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Old Oct 1st, 2011, 12:44:12 PM   #14
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Kitsunoh is done, but I'm a bit behind. I'll get Rev and Arghonaut up shortly since they have similar problems. Then we'll decide the rest.
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[17:53] <&Deck_Knight> If I Cite and Prune CiteandPrune's post, what does that make me?
[17:54] <Birkal> a citeandprune cite and prunner
[17:54] <%DHR> O_o lol
[17:54] <+Mos_Quitoxe> Cite and Prune doesn't do enough of either
[17:55] <+Mos_Quitoxe> can we make him change it or force him to pay damages
[17:55] <&Deck_Knight> It would be a lot easier for him to Cite and Prune if we made him a mod.
[17:56] <&Deck_Knight> I delegate this task to Birkal.
[17:57] <Birkal> >:|
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Old Dec 31st, 2011, 1:58:19 PM   #15
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So yeah I recently started working on this again.
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[17:53] <&Deck_Knight> If I Cite and Prune CiteandPrune's post, what does that make me?
[17:54] <Birkal> a citeandprune cite and prunner
[17:54] <%DHR> O_o lol
[17:54] <+Mos_Quitoxe> Cite and Prune doesn't do enough of either
[17:55] <+Mos_Quitoxe> can we make him change it or force him to pay damages
[17:55] <&Deck_Knight> It would be a lot easier for him to Cite and Prune if we made him a mod.
[17:56] <&Deck_Knight> I delegate this task to Birkal.
[17:57] <Birkal> >:|
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Old Dec 31st, 2011, 2:50:32 PM   #16
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HEY kitsunoh's sprite has changed! i feel it should change to the 5th gen sprite along with it's revamping!

i put alot of hard work into that sprite :/
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Old May 29th, 2012, 12:20:41 AM   #17
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So Colossoil finall got completed, this should be bumped.
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[17:53] <&Deck_Knight> If I Cite and Prune CiteandPrune's post, what does that make me?
[17:54] <Birkal> a citeandprune cite and prunner
[17:54] <%DHR> O_o lol
[17:54] <+Mos_Quitoxe> Cite and Prune doesn't do enough of either
[17:55] <+Mos_Quitoxe> can we make him change it or force him to pay damages
[17:55] <&Deck_Knight> It would be a lot easier for him to Cite and Prune if we made him a mod.
[17:56] <&Deck_Knight> I delegate this task to Birkal.
[17:57] <Birkal> >:|
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Old May 29th, 2012, 12:29:46 AM   #18
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I think we should do Voodoom next its really underwhelming atm
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Old May 29th, 2012, 12:51:14 AM   #19
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Either Voodoom or Syclant. Voodoom's reasoning is pretty much, well.... does anyone even use Voodoom any more (EDIT: Outside of raids/TLRs, of course)?

Syclant's reasoning is, well.... is it weak to Ice/Bug? No? Ok, Syclant is probably going to lose, or have a really tough time winning. Frankly, Mountaineer is almost useless most of the time, and its weaknesses are just too crippling.
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Old May 29th, 2012, 12:57:20 AM   #20
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I can attest that Voodoom pairs rather poorly with Togekiss. But how can we fix this in ASB?
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Old May 29th, 2012, 4:24:05 AM   #21
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I think it would be rather difficult without an EXTREMELY drastic change to the switch rules. It may be better to focus on improving some other aspects.
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Old May 29th, 2012, 9:14:28 AM   #22
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I'd say either Voodoom or Krillowatt need to be updated next (Mostly because Krillowatt deserves soak)
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Old May 29th, 2012, 10:56:04 AM   #23
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Let it be known that Krillowatt does NOT need Soak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Son_of_Shadoo View Post
I think it would be rather difficult without an EXTREMELY drastic change to the switch rules. It may be better to focus on improving some other aspects.
I mean that, for example, Togekiss appreciates paralyzed foes. So, logically, Voodoom would want more ways to paralyze foes, such as Body Slam or Force Palm.

I'm all for a Voodoom update next.
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Old May 29th, 2012, 11:08:16 AM   #24
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Wow saying Syclant needs to rely on its STABs to win couldn't be further from the truth. The thing has coverage out the whazoo, not to mention Technician and numerous ways to annoy the opponent (Taunt, Spikes, Double Team, a very fast Dig). Hardly in need of a buff at all, in fact I would say just right.

Voodoom on the other hand I agree is pretty terrible.
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Old May 29th, 2012, 12:14:03 PM   #25
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I thing Voodom should be granted an electric attack (even a weak one like shock wave or spark), as a way to grant himself a way to abuse his own abilities, which I think are the problem, even when they're awesome as a way to take electric attacks, all of them do the same, making them all but useless against anything without an electric STAB
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