|Sep 21st, 2011, 12:14:03 AM||#1|
Join Date: Sep 2011
New Player - OU Hailstall Team
As the title suggests I am fairly new around here, not so much to Pokemon but to Smogon and the competitive style in general. I have been playing this team on Pokemon Online for a good while and can clearly see walls that need to be overcome. I win some, I lose some (mostly to stupid predictions on my part), but it seems to be a pretty if not solid, then contestable team able to fight on level ground with other OU MU (and trust me, I've used bad teams before).
The Goal of this team is to get a lot of residual damage damage in and make use of late game sweeps. I want to outlast and capitalize with multiple decent hitting but bulky Pokemon. Also, as a side goal, I want to keep in Froslass, even if there are slightly better options out there, this is the one Pokemon that I want to remain ... if there was a theme to the party it would be a OU hail party with Froslass at the center.
Infernape @ Focus Sash
EVs: 252 Atk/ 252 Spe/ 4 HP
- Stealth Rock
- Flare Blitz
Typical lead. I set up stealth rocks and U-turn out in a perfect world. Obviously the world ain't so perfect. Typically what happens is my opponent goes offense and tries to kill him off before SR comes in. Obviously they can't since I have very decent speed already and not to mention focus sash. Either way, he typically dies. I just try to get as much damage with a STAB + Blaze Flare Blitz and sacrifice him, which usually comes back to haunt me when I'm staring down a Ferrothorn or a Skarmory. Obvious Pokemon like Forretress I just taunt because I know they are trying to set up themselves and those usually go the best for me in the long run.
Abomasnow @ Ice Gem
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 160 HP/ 252 Atk/ 96 SpD
- Ice Shard
- Swords Dance
- Wood Hammer
The obvious choice for a hail stall team, though not as a lead. I actually haven't tried to lead with Abomasnow yet. His stats are still left as something I was using on an older team (the older team didn't work so well) and he can still kinda do the same thing as my ideals but just a little restricted. My older idea for a team was use an Umbreon with curse and wish to stall out until 4-6 stacks and baton pass in Abomasnow to sweep with priority Ice Shards. Didn't work so well, but I just haven't gotten around to changing is setup, mostly because I don't know what would be best. As is, I use him as a revenge dragon/flying killer as no one expects a Ice Gem powered Ice Shards. He saves the day from +1 Atk and Spe Haxorus aimed at my party. Right now, besides the aforementioned types, he is just fodder to chip away at someone potentially sweeping me with Ice Shards.
***My dream, although might not be possible is to have him switch in on water, grass and electric types with impunity. Any suggestions in that venture would go a long way***
Reuniclus @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Def/ 4 SpD
- Calm Mind
- Focus Blast
I recently added this pokemon and am ironing out the kinks. He is a nice choice, before I was using a DD/Outrage Haxorus with a lum berry but I find Reuniclus to synergize better with my party and it's goals, though I do miss the straight raw power that Haxorus brought. I'm having a hard time finding the right opportunity to switch Reuniclus in atm, but when he does get in he does what he needs to do, which is stall, buff up and get some damage out.
Scrafty @ Leftovers
Ability: Shed Skin
EVs: 248 HP/ 8 Atk/ 252 SpD (not entirely sure why I have 8 Atk Evs)
- Drain Punch
- Bulk Up
Super fun dude. I recently added him in also. After my Umbreon I switched to a Tentacruel and was finding him to wall things nice and effectively. The only problem was that I had a prodominate weakness to psychic back then, and Scrafty fills that void beautifully. He wins me so many fights. Sometimes I'm forced to use him early but the later I bring him in the better, he can sweep through the remainder of a team if damage is spread right and his threats are taken care of. I do want an opinion about Pursuit. I think it could go a long way for countering psy/ghosts, but it lowers his sweeping potential so I shy away from it.
Skarmory @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Def/ 4SpD
- Brave Bird
Usually one of my early Pokemon to come out for various reasons, such as spikes. I have him there to phaze out buffers and to set up spikes while stalling out hail damage against offensive foes who let me stall them. He could probably use some different moves, I just don't have any in mind, and for the most part he does what I need him to do ... though I usually tend to sac him early on by continually using whirlwind accumulating damage on my foes.
Froslass @ BrightPowder
Ability: Snow Cloak
EVs: 252 SpA/ 252 Spe/ 4 HP
And Last, one of my favorite Pokemon to use, Froslass. She's fun. The danger and thrills I get from using her is great. I feel like an amateur card counter playing Black Jack at a joint the Italian Mob runs. Anyways, I'd obviously be willing to change BrightPowder (though I don't know to what) come time I want to participate in something important that doesn't allow it, but for now I have my fun on PO. I tend to use Froslass pretty late into the game, or on a safe switch against a fighting move. I proceed to get thunder wave and a sub up and proceed to sweep/stall their team. Froslass does very good damage with Blizzard against anything that doesn't resist and thunder bolt gets those pesky water types down a good 50-70%. With some hacks and a worn down enemy team Froslass can pull of pretty good sweeps, though I like the stalling better.
So yea... This is my team and I would like any type of criticism/suggestions to help me improve my strats and Pokemon. I fight a lot of the popular teams on PO and do very well against them so the team isn't terrible, though I can have trouble with a few things.
The Poison Arrows to my Achilles Heel:
Drizzle parties (Politoed specifically)
Ninetales (though not really the drought party itself)
Ferrothorn (with more Reuniclus experiance he shouldn't be a big problem)
Skarmory's are a bit tough, though not sure if I can say a weakness
I will probably add more as I get more hours into this team, but from my speculation, if I were to find a good water type and replace it with the right Pokemon, it could go a long way in optimizing my team.
Thank You in advance for any speculation/tips.
Last edited by sonicbrkr; Sep 21st, 2011 at 1:14:18 PM.
|Sep 21st, 2011, 1:21:47 AM||#2|
Join Date: Jun 2010
Alright, so I usually don't rate teams (or post at all...) but I see some issues here i might be able to fix. First of all you are wasting EVs on Infernape, Skarmory, and Froslass because each stat maxes at 252. So add 4hp to Infernape, 4 SpD to Skarmory, and 4hp to Froslass. Second of all, I don't think you can call it a hail stall team without Stallrein:
Walrein @ Leftovers Ice Body
This guy can stall for 32 turns by alternating sub and protect while causing damage by toxic and hail. If I were you I'd replace Froslass as that set is really haxy (and brightpowder might not even be legal) but if you dont want to, Scrafty would be the next best bet. Might not be the best rate ever but I hope it helps!
You too can be different, just like everybody else.
|Sep 21st, 2011, 1:22:15 AM||#3|
Join Date: Mar 2011
Interesting team, although I do not have time for a proper rate, I'd like to point out that EV's only give a stat point for every 4 EV's... so changing your EV spreads on Skarmory, Frosslass, and Infernape to 252/252/4 would give you one extra point in a stat.
Ninja'd by 28 seconds ):
|Sep 21st, 2011, 3:37:28 AM||#4|
Join Date: Mar 2011
I have a hail team of my own and I know that you want snow alive and that just isn't the set.
252hp 120def 120spD 16spA
Bold. Or the +def -spe
Politoeds hate seeds and run. Substitute and seeds are awesome with some stalling of hail. Blizzard is 100% accurate in hail and extremely powerful. Ice shard is for priority.
Always use sturdy on skarmory. Always.
(12:52:36) Prankster: I run scarf ferrothorn
(12:52:41) Prankster: with hp fire
(12:52:47) Prankster: to troll other ferrothorns
|Sep 21st, 2011, 5:07:12 AM||#5|
Join Date: Jul 2011
I like my Scrafty's with 458HP EV's as well. Right now, I'm seeing a huge fire weakness. It's to be expected on a hail team, but outside of your hail abusers, the only pokemon who resists fire is Infernape, who's not exactly the most dedicated wall in the world. To alleviate some of that stress, I suggest you switch Infernape you Heatran. It can still get up SR, and provides a great check to Scizor, who could other wise be a pain in the arse. A set of:
Heatran @ Air Balloon
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 4HP/ 252SpA/ 252 Spd
Timid (+Spd, -Atk)
This set will allow you to tackle a lot of the problems your team has as well as provide some much needed defense against that armored bug. If you find yourself running into trouble with dragons, simply switch it for a specially defensive set. GLB.
|Sep 21st, 2011, 12:41:09 PM||#6|
Join Date: Sep 2011
Yea, before I read some of the later the replies I was trying out a Choice Abomasnow, which was working pretty well as a replacement for Froslass (replaced with Walrein) until I got completely ran through by a DD Gyarados. Honestly, though I probably just need more practice with predictions and such, Walrein wasn't able to do exactly what I wanted. If the opponent had leftovers it was never ending and it seems like whenever I used Toxic they would taunt me ...
I'm going to try switching in a Subseed Abomasnow and using Heatran as my lead.
Anyone mind sharing good switch-ins for Reuniclus, he seems to fit perfectly with the team, but I always have him come in only to be 2HKO by everything except fighting, and when I do get them to switch they just switch to a SpA heavy Pokemon and kill him while I'm +1 SpD and SpA. Maybe I just need a different variant, or should put my EVs in special defense seeing how that's all he gets hit with.
edit: And I have fixed my EV spread (the 255 ones).
Last edited by sonicbrkr; Sep 21st, 2011 at 12:43:29 PM. Reason: clarity
|Sep 21st, 2011, 4:34:19 PM||#7|
☆*:.｡. o(≧▽≦)o .｡.:*☆
Join Date: Nov 2009
Denton, Texas, USA
Hey this team is rather interesting and a pretty good first attempt (mine was far worse, so no worries). I agree that Heatran would be a really good Infernape replacement to give you a better fire resist, and it's already been suggested so I won't delve into that too deeply. Beyond that, opposing Reuniclus can cause you a severe headache since your own reuniclus can't stop them with that set and Scrafty gets OHKOd by Focus Blast. Latios can also be pretty tricky if it carries Surf (which, granted, is somewhat rare) since it dents your entire team. Even if it doesn't have Surf, Heatran lacks reliable recovery and is taking hail damage the entire match, making it a less than ideal counter for the duration of the match.
Even though Jirachi patches this up pretty well, he doesn't fit onto your team anywhere and 3 steels can be a bit much for a team with two ice types (especially since you want to keep Froslass around). For this reason I'll recommend an odd choice, but one I've used on hail teams before that has never disappointed me. Try using the following over Scrafty-
Mandibuzz @ Leftovers
252 HP / 252 SPDef / 4 Spe, Careful
Brave Bird / Punishment / Roost / Whirlwind
Mandibuzz, thanks to his ability Overcoat, is a great counter to Reuniclus and Latios, and is never 2HKOd by DM even with specs. Pretty brutal. Punishment makes him a good CM Reuniclus counter, and even against TR you can just spam Roost until Focus Blast runs out of PP. He's also a good Baton Pass counter with Punishment and Whirlwind, which also racks up spikes damage against balanced teams. He serves many of the same defensive roles Scrafty does but with greater bulk and without a nasty fighting weakness.
Anyways that's all I have. BrightPowder is banned on the SU server, I think, but if you're using it on PO I think you're fine. Good first attempt, I hope this helps!
[20:44] <@DrFidget> Am I the only one who still uses the internet strictly for porn and videogames?
|Sep 21st, 2011, 6:57:17 PM||#8|
Join Date: Jul 2011
If you're having problems getting Reuniclus up and running, I suggest you switch him to an Offensive Trick Room variant. The standard 186HP/ 70Def/ 252 SpA EV spread should work nicely for you, with Focus Miss/Shadow Ball/Psyshock and carrying that ever necessary Life Orb. This Reuniclus can be an incredible offensive weapon late and mid game, completely changing the outcome for you, given the right circumstances. Hope this helps. GLB.
|Sep 23rd, 2011, 5:10:03 PM||#9|
Join Date: Sep 2011
If I were to use Mandibuzz I would need another offensive Pokemon that I'm certain can late game sweep another than Froslass. Blizzbolt is a good combo, but I'm mostly using Froslass due to preference and to satisfy my gambler's soul, but there are quite a few Pokemon that she can't handle in OU, mostly the steel types and the fire types. The answer is closer than I thought, but I might want to switch out something for a Pokemon that can handle those types.
Right now Electric is a tough cookie to crack (no real way to resist and super effective attacks are scarce) and I don't want to indulge in another electric weakness. With changes come losses because I don't know the full capabilities of new Pokemon so I will update my roster once I feel the newer Pokemon are good additions, which will come after I get a good 50 or so games with each change (to get comfortable and confirm which changes stick).
I started to use Heatran, and he works well. My only grief is that I am not confident in his speed. A LOT of leads I face now and days are faster than him and get taunts off and such before I can set up stealth rocks. I feel myself not having stealth rocks up more which kinda sucks considering my general strategy.
I have yet to try out the offensive trick room variant of Reuniclus but I'm wondering if it's that hard of a hitter. With 1 or 2 Calm Minds up I feel confident but otherwise I don't feel he hits to hard, unless I'm told otherwise. I do have him defensively EV'd after all.
And thank you for all the replies.
Last edited by sonicbrkr; Sep 23rd, 2011 at 5:12:10 PM. Reason: clarity
|Sep 23rd, 2011, 5:15:16 PM||#10|
Join Date: Sep 2011
Sashed Ape + Hail is pretty conflicting. Use Howard's Heatran>Infernape
Howard, you ninja.
Also, Brightpowder is banned.
Just noticed that enemy Infernape rips this team to shreds.
Last edited by Trollmonchan; Sep 23rd, 2011 at 5:27:48 PM. Reason: revelations.