Gen V Initial RU - Page 2

**PK Gaming** · Sep 19th, 2011, 8:37:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Foxy Grandpa

Munchlax, Clefable, Audino, and Ferroseed to name a few

Out of the pokemon you mentioned, only Munchlax is a true counter, while the rest are either 2HKOed Specs Bug Buzz or too weak to even threaten Yanmega. (Ferroseed isn't killing Yanmega any time soon)

Even with Blastoise gone, we still have other useful spinners in the tier. Yanmega has got to go. I also think Cress, Honchkrow, VENOMOTH, Omastar and a few others need to kindly gtfo out of the tier, but they'll get ironed out eventually.

NatGeo · Sep 19th, 2011, 8:41:10 PM

Oh my gosh I totally forgot about QD Venomoth and Omastar

I've used both of them and they're absolute monsters if you even give them a single turn. Honchkrow needs to be used more because it can rip shit up with just its STAB attacks + superpower + Heat Wave. Also what really viable rapid spinners are there in RU anyways? The only one I can think of is Claydol and I'm not sure if he's even in RU because of usage...

Axmaster68 · Sep 19th, 2011, 8:44:02 PM

BP Venomoth is going to kick butt with Yanmega or Omastar, or many others. That should certainly be prepared for on any team.

~~Fried Rhys~~ · Sep 19th, 2011, 8:48:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat NatGeo

Also what really viable rapid spinners are there in RU anyways? The only one I can think of is Claydol and I'm not sure if he's even in RU because of usage...

Cryogonal is a pretty good Rapid Spinner. Despite the Stealth Rock weakness, being immune to Spikes and T-Spikes is still extremely useful when spinning, and its large special defense allows it to tank hits from shit like Gorebyss and Venomoth and haze away their boosts.

Newmannium · Sep 19th, 2011, 8:57:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Foxy Grandpa

Munchlax, Clefable, Audino, and Ferroseed to name a few

Ok, fair enough, all of those mons technically avoid a 2hko from timid specs Yanmega, assuming they are they are running max hp/sp.d with a boosting nature.

But its not difficult at all for a specs Yanmega to push past them with just a little bit of team support (and I'm talking some pretty basic stuff here, like SR and/or just a bit of residual damage), and all of those mons have some pretty glaring vulnerabilities that make their presence a very poor argument as to why Yanmega isn't broken.

No Luck Involved · Sep 19th, 2011, 8:58:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Foxy Grandpa

Ferroseed can't switch in but...

So you can scratch that off the list of counters too...

But it doesn't matter how many counters it has. Having few counters isn't even the most important aspect of it because Dragonite in OU has basically no counters because of its versatility but it can be played around depending on its set. Yanmega is in a situation where it is able to 1HKO or 2HKO Pokemon that are supposed to resist its attacks! This means that it cannot be played around by switching or pivoting to force it out. It will chew through Fire types, Poison types, Rock types, Flying types etc like they're not even there.

This leaves players in the predicament when team building of having to use one of the ultra bulky special walls you mentioned (and be fatally exposed to Pokemon that take advantage of Normal type special walls *cough* Golurk *cough* Ferroseed *I could keep on coughing...*) or have to build a team knowing that they will have to sacrifice a Pokemon everytime Yanmega comes in. If SR is on the field then it only gets 2 switch-ins which is fantastic but by then, unless you used an ultra bulky special wall (and it didn't get hit with a crit or spdef drop... 42% chance out of 3 Bug Buzzes just for reference), it will have punched irreparable holes through your team because nothing on an offensive team can switch in to a Specs Bug Buzz and live to tell the tale. SB Yanmega lols at offensive teams even harder...

So right now in this early RU metagame we have the strange situation of everyone having to use a bulky special wall with reliable recovery to ward off Yanmega, which shifts most teams to a balanced or even semi-stall nature. And this in turn has spawned a bunch of stall-breaking teams that capitalise on the abundance of special walls by packing Pokemon that can take advantage of the likes of Munchlax, Clefable and Audino to get easy wins (read: Moxie Honchkrow). The tier is now a strange mix of teams that try to abuse and support Yanmega (easy win against any team not prepared to deal with it enough), teams that only exist to counter Yanmega (easy wins against teams too focused on Yanmega), and teams that try to counter teams that try to counter teams trying to abuse Yanmega (easy wins against teams that rely heavily on Munchlax etc etc).

The culmination of this can be seen in Pombo's fantastic bird team where a Yanmega is used as a lure to draw in special walls for Moxie Honchkrow to then feed on and sweep from. It's like the 3 teams rolled into one and it all centers around Yanmega! It's pretty clear right now what Pokemon is forcing the tier to be so specially defensive or risk being ripped apart and that in my book is an ugly metagame to have.

Harpwn · Sep 19th, 2011, 9:46:37 PM

I have more problems with Venomoth than anything. I can't let it QD or it's game over.

WinstonShnozwick · Sep 19th, 2011, 9:48:11 PM

Awesome that the RU subforum is here! :D

I'd say that Cresselia needs to go first of all. I've seen the walling ability of it, and it is EXTREMELY good if you use it. It's bulk is godly and is quite viable in OU IMO. In RU, I can only think of Yanmega and (maybe) Honchkrow off of the top of my head to kill it.

ASteelersMidget · Sep 19th, 2011, 11:06:57 PM

GET CRESSELIA OUT OF MY RU!!!!

in other news, Mega does have counters. What i find is there isn't a counter for SS Kabutops in Rain. also, Permananent hail teams should not be allowed in RU. Leave the weather to the Higher tiers.

My issue is if Honchcrow gets banned There are no counters for Vennomoth and Butterfree which are pretty common.

***Oglemi**** · Sep 19th, 2011, 11:10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Oglemi

We will figure out what to do with the current suspects once we figure out what's happening to suspect tests. So stay tuned!

RU C&C analyses will come once we get rid of some of the big offenders in RU atm. So stay tuned for that as well!

From the OP.

Come on guys.

And no you can't make reservations for Pokemon yet. For Christ's sake this is DST, not C&C use your brain.

EDIT: This isn't directed at you ASteelersMidget (quite the name dude lol)

ASteelersMidget · Sep 19th, 2011, 11:15:53 PM

Haha i didn't think so. I saw the post and i'm like "I don't think this is directed at me. I didn't reserve pokemon. I'm not horribly interested in that"

**blarajan** · Sep 19th, 2011, 11:26:32 PM

Just to let you know the best Yanmega counter is Mr. Mime with HP Rock.

DTC · Sep 19th, 2011, 11:33:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat ASteelersMidget

GET CRESSELIA OUT OF MY RU!!!!

in other news, Mega does have counters. What i find is there isn't a counter for SS Kabutops in Rain. also, Permananent hail teams should not be allowed in RU. Leave the weather to the Higher tiers.

My issue is if Honchcrow gets banned There are no counters for Vennomoth and Butterfree which are pretty common.

Honchkrow doesn't counter Venomoth, Venomoth can simply QD on the switch then baton pass the boost to some other pokemon that can kill Honchkrow. Butterfree is VERY easy to counter, it lacks a lot of special attack and unlike Venomoth it doesn't have baton pass, which is probably the only reason Venomoth is broken since it's easily walled. (In PO's NU tier, Butterfree is not even CLOSE to somewhat broken and PO's NU is a lot weaker then Smogon's RU. Too different tiers, but still.)

The most broken pokemon in the tier to me are the following: Honchkrow, Yanmega, Venomoth and Porygon-Z. Cresselia isn't that big and scary of a force as it is hyped but I think once the tier clears up a little, Cresselia is going to be incredibly threatening and probably broken. It's border line broken right now imo.

Omaster is countered by quite a few pokemon, such examples include: Munchlax, Ferroseed, Slowking, (Which should be used more, but because of all the bug/dark/ghost types roaming around it's not as effective.) Blastoise, Cresselia, Hitmonchan, Roselia and Ludicolo.

There are some other pokemon that I probably forgot but this was just off the top of my head. Omaster is an annoying pokemon to fight but it's not that hard to counter.

Pwnemon · Sep 20th, 2011, 6:13:20 AM

:D it finally got its own forum!

dSapper · Sep 20th, 2011, 8:32:56 AM

Yeees finally! Personally I don't think anything special needs banning.

No Luck Involved · Sep 20th, 2011, 8:55:59 AM

Venomoth discussion died down when the June stats revealed it was moving up to UU. Otherwise yes Venomoth imo is the most broken Pokemon in the tier.

steviestar · Sep 20th, 2011, 9:25:13 AM

With Blastoise leaving I've been thinking about who will be the next best rapid spinner. The only rapid spinners (that aren't NFE) in RU are

Hitmonchan
Hitmonlee
Spinda
Cryogonal
Delibird
Torkoal
Sandslash
Kabutops
Claydol
Armaldo

Of these the only ones that aren't weak to stealth rock themselves are

Hitmonchan
Hitmonlee
Spinda
Sandslash
Kabutops
Claydol

The Hitmons are too frail (especially lee) to run rapid spinning sets and Spinda is of course unusable. Sandslash is a dependable SR user and rapid spinner, essentially being a mini-Donphan. Kabutops is a pretty good offensive rapid spinner (or at least he was in 4th gen UU). Claydol is a good SR user/rapid spinner but his typing is unfortunate with all of the bugs running around RU.

Chieliee · Sep 20th, 2011, 9:38:57 AM

Mandibuzz is a total beast in this tier. It's awesome bulk and typing make for a great special wall. A Roost/Whirlwind/Toxic/Brave Bird set can wall an extremely large portion of the metagame. It's also a good counter to some physical threats such as SD Sceptile and Speed Boost Sharpedo. (Ice fang does like 30% lol)

SuperJOCKE · Sep 20th, 2011, 10:00:32 AM

Well, well...

I haven't been playing RU as much as UU, or even OU, but I think Hail and Yanmega needs to go. Hail is to much down here. In my opinion at least.
Haven't had a problem with or faced the other Pokémon mentioned here, so I don't really know what else there is.

It will be fun to do C&C work around another tier, when the time for that comes. Have only done UU so far.

Twannes · Sep 20th, 2011, 10:08:22 AM

Played some RU and here is what has to go:

Rain Dance: Come on. be serious. Name every good Swift Swim user you can think of. Each and every one of them except for Kingdra are in RU. Electrode and Uxie set up rain and you team is gone if you lack mons like ferroseed (who gets destroyed by ludicolo and can't do anything back to them). Seriously rain is so broken in RU, it's not even funny.

ParaChomp · Sep 20th, 2011, 11:17:24 AM

Shuckle's RU? I haven't played any RU matches but how's the popularity of Sandstorm in it?

steviestar · Sep 20th, 2011, 11:35:58 AM

Sandstorm is non-existent in RU as all three pokemon with Sand Stream are either OU (Tyranitar, Hippowdon) or UU (Hippopotas)

Twannes · Sep 20th, 2011, 11:45:40 AM

Non-existend is a big word. Of course there can be SS users (although that's the only wheater i've seen never using that move), but this tier is practically without-wheater, yes.

I have never seen hail, rain is more common (as well as Shell Smash).

Btw is Aerodactyl RU now? Add that to the threatlist lol

ParaChomp · Sep 20th, 2011, 12:08:41 PM

None the less, there can still be those who set it up but the way you put it makes sense.

Heysup · Sep 20th, 2011, 2:57:38 PM

I've been playing RU for a bit, here's what I see going / staying / being great.

I see Shell Smash, or various Pokemon with the move, either being removed or being over-prepared for. They are so absurdly dangerous due to the low Speed and sometimes low power of the RU Pokemon. A Pokemon like Omastar often has a defensive demeanor, but now it's not safe to treat it like that, if you let it set up, you lose.

Cresselia is the most overrated Pokemon, as usual. I have honestly no clue why people think Cresselia is so good, and I didn't in Gen 4 UU either. It's so weak. You can switch anything into it and still beat it because you can use status or SE moves to 2HKO it. Sure you can't OHKO it but what does that matter when it can't 9HKO you? Especially with Honchkrow, Yanmega, and other incredibly powerful Pokemon able to destroy it.

I actually put my money where my mouth is; my team relies on this fact. Scarf Medicham sweeping is as good a strategy as I've seen so far. Speaking of...I have not seen Scarf Medicham besides on my team....why? I've seen Gallade, Primeape, and even a goddamn Eviolite Machoke.

Almost nothing can switch into a 480 Attack 130 Base Power Hi Jump Kick. The only things that can are easily removed by Pursuit.

That's all I have for now.

Sep 19th, 2011, 8:41:10 PM	#27
NatGeo ♭ Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,428 ♯	Oh my gosh I totally forgot about QD Venomoth and Omastar I've used both of them and they're absolute monsters if you even give them a single turn. Honchkrow needs to be used more because it can rip shit up with just its STAB attacks + superpower + Heat Wave. Also what really viable rapid spinners are there in RU anyways? The only one I can think of is Claydol and I'm not sure if he's even in RU because of usage... __________________

Sep 19th, 2011, 8:44:02 PM	#28
Axmaster68 Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 701 The place where the Mudkips lie in peace and harmony.	BP Venomoth is going to kick butt with Yanmega or Omastar, or many others. That should certainly be prepared for on any team. __________________ Rage SS Scramble- Chapter 2 up! I have now soloed Whitney with a level 23 Totodile without X items or SE moves! Canceled SS Scramble CAP ASB Team

Sep 19th, 2011, 9:48:11 PM	#33
WinstonShnozwick Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 486	Awesome that the RU subforum is here! :D I'd say that Cresselia needs to go first of all. I've seen the walling ability of it, and it is EXTREMELY good if you use it. It's bulk is godly and is quite viable in OU IMO. In RU, I can only think of Yanmega and (maybe) Honchkrow off of the top of my head to kill it. __________________ Steel Pokemon are boss. Metagross is the real steel. Annoyance List; Gliscor, Jirachi, Politoed Threat List; Magnezone, Volcarona, Terrakion, Landorus Watch List; Dragonite, Hydreigon Last edited by WinstonShnozwick; Sep 19th, 2011 at 10:45:20 PM.

Sep 19th, 2011, 11:26:32 PM	#37
blarajan no abuse pls Moderator Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 2,795 Mentor	Just to let you know the best Yanmega counter is Mr. Mime with HP Rock. __________________ Team Babby: Little Cup in Ubers RMT

Sep 20th, 2011, 6:13:20 AM	#39
Pwnemon Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,176 Maryland	:D it finally got its own forum! __________________ [11:56pm] Pwnemon: statutory rape and all [11:56pm] bmelts: i have such a huge boner right now [9:28pm] Kadew: pwnemon that signature is like an x marking the spot of treasure, except instead of treasure its a pile of humorous garbage that turtles crapped out

Sep 19th, 2011, 9:46:37 PM	#32
Harpwn Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 25	I have more problems with Venomoth than anything. I can't let it QD or it's game over.

Sep 19th, 2011, 11:06:57 PM	#34
ASteelersMidget Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 46	GET CRESSELIA OUT OF MY RU!!!! in other news, Mega does have counters. What i find is there isn't a counter for SS Kabutops in Rain. also, Permananent hail teams should not be allowed in RU. Leave the weather to the Higher tiers. My issue is if Honchcrow gets banned There are no counters for Vennomoth and Butterfree which are pretty common.

Sep 19th, 2011, 11:15:53 PM	#36
ASteelersMidget Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 46	Haha i didn't think so. I saw the post and i'm like "I don't think this is directed at me. I didn't reserve pokemon. I'm not horribly interested in that"

Sep 20th, 2011, 8:32:56 AM	#40
dSapper Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 10	Yeees finally! Personally I don't think anything special needs banning.

Sep 20th, 2011, 8:55:59 AM	#41
No Luck Involved Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 1,325	Venomoth discussion died down when the June stats revealed it was moving up to UU. Otherwise yes Venomoth imo is the most broken Pokemon in the tier.

Sep 20th, 2011, 9:25:13 AM	#42
steviestar Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 149	With Blastoise leaving I've been thinking about who will be the next best rapid spinner. The only rapid spinners (that aren't NFE) in RU are Hitmonchan Hitmonlee Spinda Cryogonal Delibird Torkoal Sandslash Kabutops Claydol Armaldo Of these the only ones that aren't weak to stealth rock themselves are Hitmonchan Hitmonlee Spinda Sandslash Kabutops Claydol The Hitmons are too frail (especially lee) to run rapid spinning sets and Spinda is of course unusable. Sandslash is a dependable SR user and rapid spinner, essentially being a mini-Donphan. Kabutops is a pretty good offensive rapid spinner (or at least he was in 4th gen UU). Claydol is a good SR user/rapid spinner but his typing is unfortunate with all of the bugs running around RU.

Sep 20th, 2011, 9:38:57 AM	#43
Chieliee Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,483	Mandibuzz is a total beast in this tier. It's awesome bulk and typing make for a great special wall. A Roost/Whirlwind/Toxic/Brave Bird set can wall an extremely large portion of the metagame. It's also a good counter to some physical threats such as SD Sceptile and Speed Boost Sharpedo. (Ice fang does like 30% lol) __________________ nyuu~ This is the world we live in And these are the hands we're given Use them and lets start trying To make it a place worth living in.

Sep 20th, 2011, 10:00:32 AM	#44
SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior! Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 2,004 Location: Sweden Mentor	Well, well... I haven't been playing RU as much as UU, or even OU, but I think Hail and Yanmega needs to go. Hail is to much down here. In my opinion at least. Haven't had a problem with or faced the other Pokémon mentioned here, so I don't really know what else there is. It will be fun to do C&C work around another tier, when the time for that comes. Have only done UU so far. __________________

Sep 20th, 2011, 10:08:22 AM	#45
Twannes Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 423 Netherlands	Played some RU and here is what has to go: Rain Dance: Come on. be serious. Name every good Swift Swim user you can think of. Each and every one of them except for Kingdra are in RU. Electrode and Uxie set up rain and you team is gone if you lack mons like ferroseed (who gets destroyed by ludicolo and can't do anything back to them). Seriously rain is so broken in RU, it's not even funny. __________________ www.youtube.com/user/Blueye95 Every day i'm battlin' OU Peak: #39 RU Peak: #19

Sep 20th, 2011, 11:17:24 AM	#46
ParaChomp Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 596 Row! Row! Fight the power!	Shuckle's RU? I haven't played any RU matches but how's the popularity of Sandstorm in it?

Sep 20th, 2011, 11:35:58 AM	#47
steviestar Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 149	Sandstorm is non-existent in RU as all three pokemon with Sand Stream are either OU (Tyranitar, Hippowdon) or UU (Hippopotas)

Sep 20th, 2011, 11:45:40 AM	#48
Twannes Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 423 Netherlands	Non-existend is a big word. Of course there can be SS users (although that's the only wheater i've seen never using that move), but this tier is practically without-wheater, yes. I have never seen hail, rain is more common (as well as Shell Smash). Btw is Aerodactyl RU now? Add that to the threatlist lol __________________ www.youtube.com/user/Blueye95 Every day i'm battlin' OU Peak: #39 RU Peak: #19

Sep 20th, 2011, 12:08:41 PM	#49
ParaChomp Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 596 Row! Row! Fight the power!	None the less, there can still be those who set it up but the way you put it makes sense.

Sep 20th, 2011, 2:57:38 PM	#50
Heysup GO JETS GO Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,090 CanaJew	I've been playing RU for a bit, here's what I see going / staying / being great. I see Shell Smash, or various Pokemon with the move, either being removed or being over-prepared for. They are so absurdly dangerous due to the low Speed and sometimes low power of the RU Pokemon. A Pokemon like Omastar often has a defensive demeanor, but now it's not safe to treat it like that, if you let it set up, you lose. Cresselia is the most overrated Pokemon, as usual. I have honestly no clue why people think Cresselia is so good, and I didn't in Gen 4 UU either. It's so weak. You can switch anything into it and still beat it because you can use status or SE moves to 2HKO it. Sure you can't OHKO it but what does that matter when it can't 9HKO you? Especially with Honchkrow, Yanmega, and other incredibly powerful Pokemon able to destroy it. I actually put my money where my mouth is; my team relies on this fact. Scarf Medicham sweeping is as good a strategy as I've seen so far. Speaking of...I have not seen Scarf Medicham besides on my team....why? I've seen Gallade, Primeape, and even a goddamn Eviolite Machoke. Almost nothing can switch into a 480 Attack 130 Base Power Hi Jump Kick. The only things that can are easily removed by Pursuit. That's all I have for now. __________________ f u, v