Flying Arceus (Analysis) [GP 0/2]

GtM · Mar 18th, 2011, 7:46:07 PM

Flying Arceus

QC: (trickroom, fireburn) GP: (,)

[Overview]

In this form, the creator descends from heaven itself to smite the evil and unjust with its extraordinarily powerful Judgment. Flying type attacks are resisted by few pokemon at all in this metagame, with the only common resistors being Dialga, Zekrom, Tyranitar and Jirachi. Whilst other flying types such as Ho-Oh and Shaymin-S might seem to outclass Arceus in the role of offensive flying type due to their abilities and other attributes, Flying Arceus is the only flying type which can reliably boost its STAB attack to tremendous levels of power. Furthermore, Arceus possesses great bulk overall, and can also reduce its weakness to Electric and Ice attacks through Calm Mind. After a Calm Mind or two, not much at all can survive the wrath of Arceus' Flying Judgment.

[Set]
name: Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Judgment
move 3: Refresh / Earth Power
move 4: Recover
item: Sky Plate
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[Set Comments]
The main advantage of using Flying Arceus over other Arceus forms, or other Flying types for that matter, is its excellent mono-attacking STAB and the ability to further boost its power. Many of the Steel types in the tier such as Ferrothorn, Forretress and Scizor have secondary typings which make them vulnerable to Judgment, allowing Arceus to capitalise on its Flying STAB quite effectively. Since Arceus outspeeds the vast majority of Ubers and has great attacking power and coverage with a single move, it can easily wreak havoc with its powerful Judgments if left unchallenged.

Whilst Flying Arceus may not have the best defensive typing and is unfortunately weak to Stealth Rock, it has no crippling weaknesses like Ho-Oh or Shaymin-S and can allieviate its weaknesses to Electric and Ice attacks after using Calm Mind a few times. Arceus can further augment its bulk by using Recover for instant health recovery, and by using Refresh to prevent opponents such as Chansey from statusing it and subsequently stalling it out. However, if you'd prefer offensive coverage over the ability to negate status, then Earth Power is a viable option over Refresh, hitting almost every pokémon in the tier that resists Flying attacks for super-effective damage, unless they carry Air Balloons. Opponents such as Skarmory and Thundurus which resist the combination are specially frail anyways, and both are outsped and 2HKO'd by +1 Judgment.

[Additional Comments]
Since Arceus has a fairly poor defensive typing and excellent offensive STAB, the given set of EVs complement this by boosting his Special Attack and Speed to maximum levels, letting him outspeed the majority of the metagame. A Modest nature can also be used, still letting Arceus speed-tie with positive natured base 105 speed pokemon whilst giving Arceus' attacks a nice 10% boost. However, speed-tying with other Arceus can be very important depending on your team, making a Timid nature the primary option.

Flying Arceus can also use several different coverage moves to complement his STAB. Focus Blast deals more damage than Earth Power on Dialga and Tyranitar, OHKOing offensive Dialga and specially defensive Tyranitar in Sandstorm at +1. However, the low accuracy and inability to hit Zekrom hard make it a somewhat weaker option. Surf and Fire Blast can also be useful options when supported by Rain or Sun respectively, sporting impressive base power, but don't have exceptional coverage. If you are comfortable in just using Judgment as your only offensive option, Will o Wisp can be a useful support option and lets you deal with threats like Groudon and Zekrom more effectively. It also prevents Tyranitar from doing much to you, since it almost never runs Stone Edge.

In terms of team support, Flying Arceus appreciates Rapid Spin support from the likes of Forretress and Excadrill, since Stealth Rock takes 25% of Arceus' health every time it switches in, and can hamper its ability to tank attacks whilst boosting and healing. If you're running the mono-attacking set, Groudon can be a very helpful teammate by hitting all of Arceus' checks hard with either STAB Earthquake or its coverage moves. Stealth Rock support from Groudon also helps Arceus secure 2HKOs and OHKOs more effectively. In addition, the Sun that Groudon brings also reduces the accuracy of Thunders and Blizzards that might otherwise deal significant damage to Arceus.

[Other Options]
Flying Arceus can also run a Swords Dance set somewhat effectively, using Fly and Earthquake for coverage, but this largely outclassed by Normal Arceus and its STAB Extremespeed. Furthermore, the fact that Fly takes two turns to execute makes it much easier for opponents to switch into checks such as Dialga and Skarmory and negate Arceus' efforts. On the other hand, you can also capitalise on Fly's delay by providing Toxic Spikes support, which would stack damage on opponents whilst Arceus is up in the air. Otherwise, shoehorning Flying Arceus into other roles simply highlights its poor defensive typing; if you're looking for a bulky supporter that deals with Groudon, Grass Arceus is superior.

[Checks and Counters]
The mono-attacking set is wrecked by Zekrom, who can take even a +4 Judgment if necessary and OHKO with Lightning Strike or Fusion Bolt. Tyranitar can also wall this set to infinity and beyond, although if it lacks Stone Edge it can't do much in return to Arceus. A +6 Judgment can 2HKO specially defensive Tyranitar, however, so if you want to counter Arceus successfully using Stone Edge is mandatory. Chansey and Blissey can also wall Arceus, but if you have Refresh you can set up on them. +6 Judgement comes close to OHKOing physically defensive Blissey and will 2HKO specially defensive Chansey. It's only wise to use these as checks should Arceus lack Refresh, or should you be using Snatch or Calm Mind to increase your own Special Defense. Steel, Electric and Rock Arceus also pose significant threats, taking little from Judgment and either setting up Cosmic Power or Calm Mind boosts or dealing significant damage with their own Judgment.

Fireburn · Mar 19th, 2011, 9:52:31 AM

I know you said this was a placeholder, but I need to say a couple things before you get too far.

-RestTalk sucks this Gen. There is no reason to use it when Arceus gets both Recover and Refresh to accomplish a similar task while making it less of set up bait, and the sleep counter reset means Arceus is pretty much dead if it is forced out while it is sleeping. Remove that set and slash in Refresh in the third slot on the CM set, and change the name to just "Calm Mind".

-Get rid of the support set. Its only real purpose is to wall Groudon which is done better by Grass Arceus who can OHKO it with a super effective STAB and also counters a wider variety of Pokemon. It also isn't weak to Stealtk Rock and also packs additional resistances to Water- and Electric-, arguably more useful than a Fighting-resist in Ubers. Flying Arceus also has annoying Rock and Electric weaknesses with shut him down against a lot of things.

The Calm Mind set should be fine though.

GtM · Mar 19th, 2011, 10:13:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Fireburn

I know you said this was a placeholder, but I need to say a couple things before you get too far.

-RestTalk sucks this Gen. There is no reason to use it when Arceus gets both Recover and Refresh to accomplish a similar task while making it less of set up bait, and the sleep counter reset means Arceus is pretty much dead if it is forced out while it is sleeping. Remove that set and slash in Refresh in the third slot on the CM set, and change the name to just "Calm Mind".

-Get rid of the support set. Its only real purpose is to wall Groudon which is done better by Grass Arceus who can OHKO it with a super effective STAB and also counters a wider variety of Pokemon. It also isn't weak to Stealtk Rock and also packs additional resistances to Water- and Electric-, arguably more useful than a Fighting-resist in Ubers. Flying Arceus also has annoying Rock and Electric weaknesses with shut him down against a lot of things.

The Calm Mind set should be fine though.

Yeah, I wasn't sure about whether Rest Talk or Recover / Refresh was better having not played Ubers much, but I'll take your word for it. Also, I agree with axing the support set, since even a sun boosted Fire Fang or Blast won't do as much to Grasseus as Stone Edge does to Flyceus. Should I mention Will o Wisp in the AC for Calm Mind, then?

**trickroom** · Apr 22nd, 2011, 6:21:48 AM

Chansey, Blissey, Toxic Lugia and Ho-Oh stops Flying Arceus. Terrakion can come in and OHKO with Stone Edge after Stealth Rock.

Looks fine otherwise. Flying Arceus is quite rare in Ubers and that bad typing brings it a lot of unfortunate weaknesses. Competition from other Arceus formes, Ho-Oh and Lugia doesn't help it either.

QC APPROVED (1/2)

barry4ever · May 2nd, 2011, 2:01:11 PM

Ok some more checks and counters-

-Electric Arceus laughs its head off at this set. It resists Judgment and will win the CM war if it ever happens, thanks to the resist and the type advantage.
-Rock Arceus in sand, falls in the same group as Electric Arceus.

Its really late here so i'll get back to you !

GtM · May 9th, 2011, 11:32:02 AM

Duly noted.

Okay, I think this is pretty much done. Flying Arceus can't do a lot, but the CM set is pretty good (as usual for Arceus)

Fireburn · May 27th, 2011, 8:48:53 PM

Sorry this slipped under my nose.

QC APPROVED (2/2)

GtM · May 28th, 2011, 6:07:03 AM

Before I'm going to write this up, I want to query whether a Swords Dance set is worth running or not.

Name: Swords Dance
Move 1: Swords Dance
Move 2: Fly
Move 3: Earthquake
Move 4: Extremespeed / Recover
Item: Sky Plate
Nature: Jolly
Evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

It has a harder time dealing with Groudon, but an easier time dealing with Tyranitar and other specially defensive pokémon. It also has an immunity to switch in on, unlike Normal Arceus or Dragon Arceus, which is nice. The main reason I'm doubting its viability is that Fly is its only STAB, but I suppose that's still fine for a late game cleaner. Ghost Arceus uses Shadow Force, so why not? Not to mention that anything switching in on Fly gets nailed by a faster Earthquake.

**trickroom** · May 28th, 2011, 6:27:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat GtM

Before I'm going to write this up, I want to query whether a Swords Dance set is worth running or not.

Name: Swords Dance
Move 1: Swords Dance
Move 2: Fly
Move 3: Earthquake
Move 4: Extremespeed / Recover
Item: Sky Plate
Nature: Jolly
Evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

It has a harder time dealing with Groudon, but an easier time dealing with Tyranitar and other specially defensive pokémon. It also has an immunity to switch in on, unlike Normal Arceus or Dragon Arceus, which is nice. The main reason I'm doubting its viability is that Fly is its only STAB, but I suppose that's still fine for a late game cleaner. Ghost Arceus uses Shadow Force, so why not? Not to mention that anything switching in on Fly gets nailed by a faster Earthquake.

Not liking this set but if you can provide some good logs that will be better. Dealing with Tyranitar better is good but Tyranitar isn't even common in Ubers at least for now. You trade the immunity for STAB ExtremeSpeed(Normal Arceus), no Stealth Rock weak, stronger attacks(Outrage Dragon Arceus).

Shadow Force makes the user completely invulnerable to any attacks and is quite a bit stronger than Fly. When you Fly up, it's a free Thunder for the opponent and it sucks when Flying Arceus is weak to Thunder as well.

Skarmory and Lugia still beats you. A +2 Earthquake might fail to KO Dialga.

Extremespeed is also rather weak and the typing sucks. Why won't you use SD Rayquaza over SD Flying Arceus? It OHKOes Palkia with Extremespeed after Stealth Rock while Flying Arceus gets Thundered. The Speed and Bulk is nice but Flying Arceus's shitty typing and rather lol STAB physical moves sucks.

Moo · May 28th, 2011, 8:39:37 AM

Does Flying Arceus get Sky Drop? It could be pretty useful with Toxic Spikes, and Hail/Sandstorm support imo

GtM · May 28th, 2011, 8:43:04 AM

The only STAB attacking moves that Flying Arceus gets are Aerial Ace and Fly. Plus if Flying Arceus did get Sky Drop, so would all other forms, and thus something like Steel / Rock Arceus would be better at using it.

GtM · May 28th, 2011, 9:12:12 AM

Okay, got some logs. This isn't actually that bad. :P

Third game

Misplay against Groudon

Forgot about Thunder

Another 2-1 from the lead

This set has been reasonably good, these are not cherrypicked logs and although I didn't use him too often he was handy when he was available. Fly's second turn delay was not as bad as I thought it would be, and can actually be quite useful since it screws with early-Protect users.

I'd say its main advantage over Dragon Arceus is not being weak to Dragon, since in that final log Arceus would have been raped by Palkia's Spacial Rend and finished off by Groudon's Earthquake (I think Groudon could have survived the Outrage)

In my experience, with the correct team support Earthquake is never used since Fly has such amazing neutral coverage in Ubers. I'm going to change the main set to something like this.

Name: Swords Dance
Move 1: Swords Dance
Move 2: Fly
Move 3: Extremespeed
Move 4: Recover / Dragon Claw
Item: Sky Plate
Nature: Jolly
Evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

Dragon Claw gets the slash since it's nice to have a consistent, super-effective hit against stuff like Palkia, Giratina, etc which doesn't require you to waste a turn and possibly get nailed by a Thunder.

shrang · May 30th, 2011, 7:04:12 AM

Just saying, no mention that Flying Arceus is weak to Stealth Rock? Rapid Spin support would be nice!

GtM · Jun 4th, 2011, 2:05:18 PM

Noted. Any opinions on the Swords Dance set? I found it to be moderately effective.

**Theorymon** · Jul 13th, 2011, 11:37:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat GtM

Noted. Any opinions on the Swords Dance set? I found it to be moderately effective.

Sorry for the late response, but no SD Flying Arceus really isn't worth it when the only STABS you have are Aerial Ace and Fly. The only reason I could ever see using SD Flying Arceus is if you wanted to use some weird mono SD set that was something like Swords Dance / Fly / Recover / Cosmic Power (I actually tested this last gen lol, didn't do well enough). Its other options at best.

GtM · Jul 14th, 2011, 7:49:10 AM

Okay, that settles that. I'll mention this in OO.

Write-up will commence shortly!

**NixHex** · Jul 16th, 2011, 12:37:36 PM

So THIS is how Jesus ascended to heaven...

omit
add
comment
Cap/decap

...

Excellent, worthy of God's mercy. Just some punctuation errors, sins that Arceus often overlooks when deciding to send us to heaven or hell. The correct spelling is "judgment" for future reference.

[GP 1/2]

Banedon · Jul 16th, 2011, 1:07:55 PM

Quote:

In this form, the creator descends from heaven itself to smite the evil and unjust with its extraordinarily powerful Judgment. Flying type attacks are resisted by few pokemon at all in this metagame, with the only common resistors being Dialga, Zekrom, Tyranitar and Jirachi. Whilst other flying types such as Ho-Oh and Shaymin-S might seem to outclass Arceus in the role of offensive flying type due to their abilities and other attributes, Flying Arceus is the only flying type which can reliably boost its STAB attack to tremendous levels of power. Furthermore, Arceus possesses great bulk overall, and can also reduce its weakness to Electric and Ice attacks through Calm Mind. After a Calm Mind or two, not much at all can survive the wrath of Arceus' Flying Judgment.

There are a few more aren't there: Skarmory (hit on special side though), Heatran, Electric Arceus, Steel Arceus, Rock Arceus, Metagross, Magnezone ...

In fact now that I read the analysis more many of these Pokemon are mentioned in the counters section @_@

ZetoTarken · Jul 16th, 2011, 2:46:00 PM

He mentioned the resists that are in the top 25 in usage and mentioned that these are the common resists. I fail to see the problem

GtM · Jul 16th, 2011, 5:06:58 PM

Yeah, emphasis on common. Rattling off every single pokémon that resists Arceus' STAB would be counter-productive. Also, that the counters section introduces the threats you mentioned as a testament to how uncommon Flying Arceus' counters are.

barry4ever · Jul 23rd, 2011, 10:29:15 PM

Even more checks:

-Skarmory is resistant or immune to all of Flying Arceus's moves. +2 Judgment does 49.7% - 58.7%. Skarmory can Toxic Arceus, or Whirlwind it out and then Roost off the damage. Whirlwind will effectively inflict a 25% damage on Flying Arceus with SR.

-Bronzong falls in the same category. It can set up Light Screen to take little damage from Judgment and Toxic Flying Arceus. Gyro Ball will 3HKO. Sadly, it cannot phaze out Arceus.

-Need to mention Scarf Terrakion and Ho-Oh as check. Scarf Palkia can 2HKO with Rain boosted Surf and SR even if Arceus uses CM as Palkia Surfs.

-Thundurus can take a +1 Judgment even with SR and fry Flying Arceus with Thunder. If at higher than +1 SpA, Thundurus can just cripple it with a priority T Wave.

That should be it i think.

barry4ever · Sep 28th, 2011, 8:20:14 AM

Un-official GP check

Yeah, I'm doing GP Stuff now, funny eh ?

removals in red; additions in blue; comments in green

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat GtM

Flying Arceus

QC: (trickroom, fireburn) GP: (,)

[Overview]

In this form, the creator descends from the heavens itself to smite the evil and unjust with its extraordinarily powerful Judgment. Flying type attacks are resisted by few Pokemon at all in this metagame, with the only common resistors being Dialga, Zekrom, Tyranitar, and Jirachi. Whilst other Flying-types(capitalize F and insert hyphen) such as Ho-Oh and Shaymin-S might seem to outclass Arceus in the role of offensive Flying-type(capitalize F and insert hyphen) due to their abilities and other attributes better STAB combinations, Flying Arceus is the only Flying-type(capitalize F and insert hyphen) which who can reliably boost its STAB attack offenses to tremendous levels of power. Furthermore, Arceus possesses great bulk overall bulk and is relatively bulkier than Groudon can also reduce its weakness to Electric- and Ice-type attacks through Calm Mind. After a Calm Mind or two, even super effective moves will fail to dent Arceus and few Pokemon will be able to stand up before its wrath.

[SET] (capitalize)
name: Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Judgment
move 3: Refresh / Earth Power
move 4: Recover
item: Sky Plate
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS] (capitalize)
The main advantage of using Flying Arceus over other Arceus formes, or other Flying types for that matter, is its excellent mono-attacking STAB and the ability to further boost its power. Many of the Steel-types (hyphenate) in the tier such as Ferrothorn, Forretress, and Scizor have secondary typings which make them vulnerable to Judgment, and allows allowing Arceus to capitalise on its Flying-type STAB quite effectively. Since Arceus outspeeds the vast majority of Ubers and has great attacking power and coverage with a single move, it can easily wreak havoc with its powerful Judgments if left unchallenged.

Whilst Flying Arceus may not have the best Flying is a horrible defensive typing and is makes Arceus unfortunately weak to Stealth Rock, it has no crippling weaknesses like Ho-Oh or Shaymin-S and can allieviate its weaknesses to Electric and Ice attacks after using Calm Mind a few times. However, thanks to its incredible overall bulk and access to Recover, this problem is somewhat mitigated. Arceus can further augment its bulk further by using Recover for instant health reliable recovery, and by can using use Refresh to prevent opponents such as Chansey from statusing it and subsequently outstalling it out. However, if you'd prefer better offensive coverage over the ability to negate status, then Earth Power is a viable option over Refresh, hitting almost every pokémon in the tier that resists Flying attacks, for super-effective damage, unless they carry Air Balloons (pointless statement, few Pokemon in Ubers even carry Air Balloon anyway). Opponents such as Skarmory and Thundurus which resist the combination are speciallyfrail anyways, and both are outsped and 2HKO'd 2HKOed by +1 Judgment.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS] (capitalize)
Since Arceus has a fairly poor defensive typing and excellent offensive STAB, the given set of EVs complement this by boosting maximizing his Special Attack and Speed to maximum levels, letting him outspeed the majority of the metagame. A Modest nature can also be used, still letting Arceus speed-tie with positive natured base 105 speed pokemon whilst giving a buff to Arceus' Special Attack attacks a nice 10% boost. However, Speed-tying with other Arceus variants can be very important depending on your team, making a Timid nature the primary option.

Flying Arceus can also use several different various coverage moves to complement his STAB. Focus Blast deals more damage than Earth Power on Dialga and Tyranitar, OHKOing offensive Dialga and specially defensive Tyranitar in Sandstorm at +1. However, the low accuracy and inability to hit Zekrom hard make it a somewhat weaker option. Surf and Fire Blast can also be useful options when supported by Rain or Sun respectively, sporting impressive base power, but don't have exceptional coverage. If you are comfortable in just using Judgment as your only offensive option, Will o Wisp Will-o-Wisp can be a useful support option and lets you deal with threats like Groudon and Zekrom more effectively. It also prevents Tyranitar from doing much to you, since it almost never runs Stone Edge.

In terms of team support, Flying Arceus appreciates Rapid Spin support from the likes of Forretress and Excadrill, since Stealth Rock takes strips off 25% of Arceus' health every time it switches in, and can hamper its ability to tank attacks hits whilst while boosting and healing. If you're running the mono-attacking set, Groudon can be a very helpful teammate since it can check all the Pokemon who give Flying Arceus trouble with its STAB Earthquake by hitting all of Arceus' checks hard with either STAB Earthquake or its coverage moves. Stealth Rock support from Groudon also helps Arceus secure 2HKOs and OHKOs more effectively. In addition, the Sun that Groudon brings also reduces the accuracy of Thunders and Blizzards, that might otherwise deal significant damage to Arceus.

[Other Options]
Flying Arceus can also run a Swords Dance set somewhat effectively, using Fly and Earthquake for coverage, but this largely outclassed by Normal Arceus and its STAB Extremespeed. Furthermore, the fact that Fly takes two turns to execute makes it much easier for opponents to switch into checks such as Dialga and Skarmory and negate Arceus's efforts. On the other hand, you can also capitalise on Fly's delay by providing Toxic Spikes support, which would stack damage on opponents whilst Arceus is up in the air. Otherwise, shoehorning Flying Arceus into other roles simply highlights its poor defensive typing; if you're looking for a bulky supporter that deals with Groudon, Grass Arceus is far superior.

[Checks and Counters]
The mono-attacking set is wrecked by Zekrom, who can take even a +4 Judgment if necessary and OHKO with Lightning Strike or Fusion Bolt. Tyranitar can also wall this set to infinity and beyond, although if it lacks Stone Edge it can't do much in return to Arceus. A +6 Judgment can 2HKO specially defensive Tyranitar, however, so if you want to counter Flying Arceus successfully using Stone Edge is mandatory. Chansey and Blissey can also wall Arceus, but if you have Refresh you can set up on them. +6 Judgement comes close to OHKOing physically defensive Blissey and will 2HKO specially defensive Chansey. It's only wise to use these as checks should Arceus lack Refresh, or should you be using Snatch or Calm Mind to increase your own Special Defense. Steel, Electric and Rock Arceus also pose significant threats, taking little from Judgment and either setting up Cosmic Power or Calm Mind boosts or dealing significant damage with their own Judgment uses Flying Arceus as set up bait whilst being able to threaten a KO with their STAB Judgment.

EDIT: So the first check wasn't even implemented yet, and its been a while, so GTM, you going to get this done or what ?

**Nexus** · Sep 29th, 2011, 11:41:02 AM

Yeah, so someone take this over and implement the GP checks and whatever other changes Theorymon suggests.

GtM · Sep 29th, 2011, 12:01:54 PM

Yeah I'm fine with this being taken over, I don't really know why i signed up for it in the first place considering I don't play Ubers anymore. o_O

**Furai** · Sep 29th, 2011, 1:58:37 PM

Sure, I'll take over this. Will get it done asap.

Mar 18th, 2011, 7:46:07 PM	#1
GtM Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 720 The Gastronomicon	Flying Arceus (Analysis) [GP 0/2] Flying Arceus QC: (trickroom, fireburn) GP: (,) [Overview] <p>In this form, the creator descends from heaven itself to smite the evil and unjust with its extraordinarily powerful Judgment. Flying type attacks are resisted by few pokemon at all in this metagame, with the only common resistors being Dialga, Zekrom, Tyranitar and Jirachi. Whilst other flying types such as Ho-Oh and Shaymin-S might seem to outclass Arceus in the role of offensive flying type due to their abilities and other attributes, Flying Arceus is the only flying type which can reliably boost its STAB attack to tremendous levels of power. Furthermore, Arceus possesses great bulk overall, and can also reduce its weakness to Electric and Ice attacks through Calm Mind. After a Calm Mind or two, not much at all can survive the wrath of Arceus' Flying Judgment.</p> [Set] name: Calm Mind move 1: Calm Mind move 2: Judgment move 3: Refresh / Earth Power move 4: Recover item: Sky Plate nature: Timid evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe [Set Comments] <p>The main advantage of using Flying Arceus over other Arceus forms, or other Flying types for that matter, is its excellent mono-attacking STAB and the ability to further boost its power. Many of the Steel types in the tier such as Ferrothorn, Forretress and Scizor have secondary typings which make them vulnerable to Judgment, allowing Arceus to capitalise on its Flying STAB quite effectively. Since Arceus outspeeds the vast majority of Ubers and has great attacking power and coverage with a single move, it can easily wreak havoc with its powerful Judgments if left unchallenged.</p> <p>Whilst Flying Arceus may not have the best defensive typing and is unfortunately weak to Stealth Rock, it has no crippling weaknesses like Ho-Oh or Shaymin-S and can allieviate its weaknesses to Electric and Ice attacks after using Calm Mind a few times. Arceus can further augment its bulk by using Recover for instant health recovery, and by using Refresh to prevent opponents such as Chansey from statusing it and subsequently stalling it out. However, if you'd prefer offensive coverage over the ability to negate status, then Earth Power is a viable option over Refresh, hitting almost every pokémon in the tier that resists Flying attacks for super-effective damage, unless they carry Air Balloons. Opponents such as Skarmory and Thundurus which resist the combination are specially frail anyways, and both are outsped and 2HKO'd by +1 Judgment.</p> [Additional Comments] <p>Since Arceus has a fairly poor defensive typing and excellent offensive STAB, the given set of EVs complement this by boosting his Special Attack and Speed to maximum levels, letting him outspeed the majority of the metagame. A Modest nature can also be used, still letting Arceus speed-tie with positive natured base 105 speed pokemon whilst giving Arceus' attacks a nice 10% boost. However, speed-tying with other Arceus can be very important depending on your team, making a Timid nature the primary option.</p> <p>Flying Arceus can also use several different coverage moves to complement his STAB. Focus Blast deals more damage than Earth Power on Dialga and Tyranitar, OHKOing offensive Dialga and specially defensive Tyranitar in Sandstorm at +1. However, the low accuracy and inability to hit Zekrom hard make it a somewhat weaker option. Surf and Fire Blast can also be useful options when supported by Rain or Sun respectively, sporting impressive base power, but don't have exceptional coverage. If you are comfortable in just using Judgment as your only offensive option, Will o Wisp can be a useful support option and lets you deal with threats like Groudon and Zekrom more effectively. It also prevents Tyranitar from doing much to you, since it almost never runs Stone Edge.</p> <p>In terms of team support, Flying Arceus appreciates Rapid Spin support from the likes of Forretress and Excadrill, since Stealth Rock takes 25% of Arceus' health every time it switches in, and can hamper its ability to tank attacks whilst boosting and healing. If you're running the mono-attacking set, Groudon can be a very helpful teammate by hitting all of Arceus' checks hard with either STAB Earthquake or its coverage moves. Stealth Rock support from Groudon also helps Arceus secure 2HKOs and OHKOs more effectively. In addition, the Sun that Groudon brings also reduces the accuracy of Thunders and Blizzards that might otherwise deal significant damage to Arceus.</p> [Other Options] <p>Flying Arceus can also run a Swords Dance set somewhat effectively, using Fly and Earthquake for coverage, but this largely outclassed by Normal Arceus and its STAB Extremespeed. Furthermore, the fact that Fly takes two turns to execute makes it much easier for opponents to switch into checks such as Dialga and Skarmory and negate Arceus' efforts. On the other hand, you can also capitalise on Fly's delay by providing Toxic Spikes support, which would stack damage on opponents whilst Arceus is up in the air. Otherwise, shoehorning Flying Arceus into other roles simply highlights its poor defensive typing; if you're looking for a bulky supporter that deals with Groudon, Grass Arceus is superior.</p> [Checks and Counters] <p>The mono-attacking set is wrecked by Zekrom, who can take even a +4 Judgment if necessary and OHKO with Lightning Strike or Fusion Bolt. Tyranitar can also wall this set to infinity and beyond, although if it lacks Stone Edge it can't do much in return to Arceus. A +6 Judgment can 2HKO specially defensive Tyranitar, however, so if you want to counter Arceus successfully using Stone Edge is mandatory. Chansey and Blissey can also wall Arceus, but if you have Refresh you can set up on them. +6 Judgement comes close to OHKOing physically defensive Blissey and will 2HKO specially defensive Chansey. It's only wise to use these as checks should Arceus lack Refresh, or should you be using Snatch or Calm Mind to increase your own Special Defense. Steel, Electric and Rock Arceus also pose significant threats, taking little from Judgment and either setting up Cosmic Power or Calm Mind boosts or dealing significant damage with their own Judgment.</p> __________________ Triple Double! Gyarados + Salamence RMT Red Skull's Army! Latias RMT I Burrascusi Italiani! Gyarados + Jolteon RMT "How does this team fare against Sun teams? I would give Scizor Aqua Jet over Bug Bite so he can pick off those fire pokemon." Last edited by GtM; Jul 14th, 2011 at 10:50:48 AM.

May 9th, 2011, 11:32:02 AM	#6
GtM Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 720 The Gastronomicon	Duly noted. Okay, I think this is pretty much done. Flying Arceus can't do a lot, but the CM set is pretty good (as usual for Arceus) __________________ Triple Double! Gyarados + Salamence RMT Red Skull's Army! Latias RMT I Burrascusi Italiani! Gyarados + Jolteon RMT "How does this team fare against Sun teams? I would give Scizor Aqua Jet over Bug Bite so he can pick off those fire pokemon."

May 28th, 2011, 6:07:03 AM	#8
GtM Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 720 The Gastronomicon	Before I'm going to write this up, I want to query whether a Swords Dance set is worth running or not. Name: Swords Dance Move 1: Swords Dance Move 2: Fly Move 3: Earthquake Move 4: Extremespeed / Recover Item: Sky Plate Nature: Jolly Evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe It has a harder time dealing with Groudon, but an easier time dealing with Tyranitar and other specially defensive pokémon. It also has an immunity to switch in on, unlike Normal Arceus or Dragon Arceus, which is nice. The main reason I'm doubting its viability is that Fly is its only STAB, but I suppose that's still fine for a late game cleaner. Ghost Arceus uses Shadow Force, so why not? Not to mention that anything switching in on Fly gets nailed by a faster Earthquake. __________________ Triple Double! Gyarados + Salamence RMT Red Skull's Army! Latias RMT I Burrascusi Italiani! Gyarados + Jolteon RMT "How does this team fare against Sun teams? I would give Scizor Aqua Jet over Bug Bite so he can pick off those fire pokemon."

May 28th, 2011, 8:39:37 AM	#10
Moo Professor Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 1,447	Does Flying Arceus get Sky Drop? It could be pretty useful with Toxic Spikes, and Hail/Sandstorm support imo __________________ GP / UU QC, VM for check VM for a UU rate

May 28th, 2011, 8:43:04 AM	#11
GtM Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 720 The Gastronomicon	The only STAB attacking moves that Flying Arceus gets are Aerial Ace and Fly. Plus if Flying Arceus did get Sky Drop, so would all other forms, and thus something like Steel / Rock Arceus would be better at using it. __________________ Triple Double! Gyarados + Salamence RMT Red Skull's Army! Latias RMT I Burrascusi Italiani! Gyarados + Jolteon RMT "How does this team fare against Sun teams? I would give Scizor Aqua Jet over Bug Bite so he can pick off those fire pokemon."

May 28th, 2011, 9:12:12 AM	#12
GtM Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 720 The Gastronomicon	Okay, got some logs. This isn't actually that bad. :P Third game MattKestrel sent out Flyingmonkey! (Arceus-Flying) Alex Walls sent out Shaofouine! (Mienshao) Start of turn 1 The foe's Shaofouine used Stone Edge! The attack of the foe's Shaofouine missed! Flyingmonkey used Swords Dance! Flyingmonkey's Attack sharply rose! Start of turn 2 The foe's Shaofouine used Stone Edge! It's super effective! Flyingmonkey lost 208 HP! (54% of its health) Flyingmonkey flew high up! Start of turn 3 Alex Walls called Shaofouine back! Alex Walls sent out Noacier! (Ferrothorn) Flyingmonkey used Fly! The foe's Noacier lost 74% of its health! The foe's Noacier's Iron Barbs hurts Flyingmonkey The foe's Noacier restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Start of turn 4 The foe's Noacier used Protect! The foe's Noacier protected itself! Flyingmonkey used Earthquake! The foe's Noacier protected itself! The foe's Noacier restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Start of turn 5 Alex Walls called Noacier back! Alex Walls sent out Rayquaza! The foe's Rayquaza has Air Lock! Flyingmonkey used Swords Dance! Flyingmonkey's Attack sharply rose! Start of turn 6 Flyingmonkey flew high up! The foe's Rayquaza used Dragon Dance! The foe's Rayquaza's Attack rose! The foe's Rayquaza's Speed rose! Start of turn 7 Alex Walls called Rayquaza back! Alex Walls sent out Noacier! (Ferrothorn) Flyingmonkey used Fly! The foe's Noacier lost 37% of its health! The foe's Noacier fainted! The foe's Noacier's Iron Barbs hurts Flyingmonkey Alex Walls sent out Shaofouine! (Mienshao) Start of turn 8 Flyingmonkey used ExtremeSpeed! The foe's Shaofouine lost 100% of its health! The foe's Shaofouine fainted! Alex Walls sent out Mentali! (Espeon) Start of turn 9 Flyingmonkey flew high up! The foe's Mentali used Psyshock! The attack of the foe's Mentali missed! Start of turn 10 Flyingmonkey used Fly! The foe's Mentali lost 99% of its health! The foe's Mentali hung on using its Focus Sash! The foe's Mentali used Psyshock! A critical hit! Flyingmonkey lost 79 HP! (20% of its health) Flyingmonkey fainted! Misplay against Groudon Start of turn 5 MattKestrel called Zekuromu back! MattKestrel sent out Flyingmonkey! (Arceus-Flying) The foe's Groudon used Rock Polish! The foe's Groudon's Speed sharply rose! The sunlight is strong! Start of turn 6 The foe's Groudon used Swords Dance! The foe's Groudon's Attack sharply rose! Flyingmonkey used Swords Dance! Flyingmonkey's Attack sharply rose! The sunlight is strong! Start of turn 7 The foe's Groudon used Dragon Claw! Flyingmonkey lost 177 HP! (46% of its health) Flyingmonkey flew high up! The sunlight is strong! Start of turn 8 The foe's Groudon used Swords Dance! The foe's Groudon's Attack sharply rose! Flyingmonkey used Fly! The foe's Groudon lost 63% of its health! The sunlight is strong! The foe's Groudon restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Start of turn 9 Flyingmonkey used ExtremeSpeed! The foe's Groudon lost 34% of its health! The foe's Groudon used Dragon Claw! Flyingmonkey lost 204 HP! (53% of its health) Flyingmonkey fainted! Forgot about Thunder Start of turn 5 The foe's Mewtwo used Aura Sphere! It's super effective! Nattorei lost 20 HP! (5% of its health) Nattorei fainted! The foe's Mewtwo is hurt by its Life Orb! Rain continues to fall! MattKestrel sent out Flyingmonkey! (Arceus-Flying) Start of turn 6 The foe's Mewtwo used Recover! The foe's Mewtwo regained health! Flyingmonkey used Swords Dance! Flyingmonkey's Attack sharply rose! Rain continues to fall! Start of turn 7 The foe's Mewtwo used Psystrike! Flyingmonkey lost 358 HP! (93% of its health) The foe's Mewtwo is hurt by its Life Orb! Flyingmonkey flew high up! Rain continues to fall! Start of turn 8 The foe's Mewtwo used Recover! The foe's Mewtwo regained health! Flyingmonkey used Fly! The foe's Mewtwo lost 100% of its health! The foe's Mewtwo fainted! Rain continues to fall! Devil invader sent out Kyogre! Start of turn 9 Flyingmonkey flew high up! The foe's Kyogre used Thunder! It's super effective! Flyingmonkey lost 23 HP! (6% of its health) Flyingmonkey fainted! Rain continues to fall! MattKestrel sent out Kyogre! Another 2-1 from the lead Start of turn 1 Flyingmonkey used Swords Dance! Flyingmonkey's Attack sharply rose! The foe's Palkia used Thunderbolt! It's super effective! Flyingmonkey lost 170 HP! (44% of its health) Start of turn 2 Flyingmonkey flew high up! The foe's Palkia used Thunderbolt! The attack of the foe's Palkia missed! Start of turn 3 Flyingmonkey used Fly! The foe's Palkia lost 100% of its health! The foe's Palkia fainted! [TI] Night Shade sent out Groudon! The foe's Groudon's Drought intensified the sun's rays! Start of turn 4 Flyingmonkey flew high up! The foe's Groudon used Flamethrower! The attack of the foe's Groudon missed! The sunlight is strong! Start of turn 5 Flyingmonkey used Fly! The foe's Groudon lost 79% of its health! The foe's Groudon used Flamethrower! Flyingmonkey lost 88 HP! (23% of its health) The sunlight is strong! Start of turn 6 Flyingmonkey used ExtremeSpeed! The foe's Groudon lost 20% of its health! The foe's Groudon fainted! The sunlight is strong! [TI] Night Shade sent out Mewtwo! The foe's Mewtwo is exerting its Pressure! Start of turn 7 Flyingmonkey used ExtremeSpeed! The foe's Mewtwo lost 54% of its health! The foe's Mewtwo used Flamethrower! Flyingmonkey lost 123 HP! (32% of its health) Flyingmonkey fainted! The sunlight is strong! MattKestrel sent out Kyogre! This set has been reasonably good, these are not cherrypicked logs and although I didn't use him too often he was handy when he was available. Fly's second turn delay was not as bad as I thought it would be, and can actually be quite useful since it screws with early-Protect users. I'd say its main advantage over Dragon Arceus is not being weak to Dragon, since in that final log Arceus would have been raped by Palkia's Spacial Rend and finished off by Groudon's Earthquake (I think Groudon could have survived the Outrage) In my experience, with the correct team support Earthquake is never used since Fly has such amazing neutral coverage in Ubers. I'm going to change the main set to something like this. Name: Swords Dance Move 1: Swords Dance Move 2: Fly Move 3: Extremespeed Move 4: Recover / Dragon Claw Item: Sky Plate Nature: Jolly Evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe Dragon Claw gets the slash since it's nice to have a consistent, super-effective hit against stuff like Palkia, Giratina, etc which doesn't require you to waste a turn and possibly get nailed by a Thunder. __________________ Triple Double! Gyarados + Salamence RMT Red Skull's Army! Latias RMT I Burrascusi Italiani! Gyarados + Jolteon RMT "How does this team fare against Sun teams? I would give Scizor Aqua Jet over Bug Bite so he can pick off those fire pokemon." Last edited by GtM; May 29th, 2011 at 7:01:34 AM.

Jun 4th, 2011, 2:05:18 PM	#14
GtM Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 720 The Gastronomicon	Noted. Any opinions on the Swords Dance set? I found it to be moderately effective. __________________ Triple Double! Gyarados + Salamence RMT Red Skull's Army! Latias RMT I Burrascusi Italiani! Gyarados + Jolteon RMT "How does this team fare against Sun teams? I would give Scizor Aqua Jet over Bug Bite so he can pick off those fire pokemon."

Jul 14th, 2011, 7:49:10 AM	#16
GtM Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 720 The Gastronomicon	Okay, that settles that. I'll mention this in OO. Write-up will commence shortly! __________________ Triple Double! Gyarados + Salamence RMT Red Skull's Army! Latias RMT I Burrascusi Italiani! Gyarados + Jolteon RMT "How does this team fare against Sun teams? I would give Scizor Aqua Jet over Bug Bite so he can pick off those fire pokemon."

Jul 16th, 2011, 2:46:00 PM	#19
ZetoTarken Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 226 secret	He mentioned the resists that are in the top 25 in usage and mentioned that these are the common resists. I fail to see the problem __________________ <Witty comment here>

Jul 16th, 2011, 5:06:58 PM	#20
GtM Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 720 The Gastronomicon	Yeah, emphasis on common. Rattling off every single pokémon that resists Arceus' STAB would be counter-productive. Also, that the counters section introduces the threats you mentioned as a testament to how uncommon Flying Arceus' counters are. __________________ Triple Double! Gyarados + Salamence RMT Red Skull's Army! Latias RMT I Burrascusi Italiani! Gyarados + Jolteon RMT "How does this team fare against Sun teams? I would give Scizor Aqua Jet over Bug Bite so he can pick off those fire pokemon."

Sep 29th, 2011, 11:41:02 AM	#23
Nexus Hate is an everlasting wellspring from which it is eternally sustained. Moderator Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 2,378 Mentor	Yeah, so someone take this over and implement the GP checks and whatever other changes Theorymon suggests. __________________

Sep 29th, 2011, 12:01:54 PM	#24
GtM Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 720 The Gastronomicon	Yeah I'm fine with this being taken over, I don't really know why i signed up for it in the first place considering I don't play Ubers anymore. o_O __________________ Triple Double! Gyarados + Salamence RMT Red Skull's Army! Latias RMT I Burrascusi Italiani! Gyarados + Jolteon RMT "How does this team fare against Sun teams? I would give Scizor Aqua Jet over Bug Bite so he can pick off those fire pokemon."

Sep 29th, 2011, 1:58:37 PM	#25
Furai standing in the eye of the hurricane Moderator Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,094	Sure, I'll take over this. Will get it done asap. __________________ *#gohard* \| Wolfpack (Ubers RMT)