Gen V Initial NU Metagame Thread

[Raseri]

I'd definitely join a NU tournament, anything to bring attention to this metagame, on the topic if some potentially good NU Pokemon

Scolipede looks like a great Suicide lead or Swords Dance sweeper, with so few rapid spinners hazards are going to be an essential part of most teams.

I could see Sawk getting some usage as one of the only viable fighting types in the tier, especially with a lot of the tier being weak to Close Combat.

Unfortunately its hard to judge the metagame without playing it, i'm always up for a match so just send me a message on Smogon's server and we'll battle!

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

If you want a dragon in NU, go with Druddigon.

It has the highest base atk of NU dragons, an excellent complementary movepool, arguably the best typing, adequate bulk, and a pair of workable abilities to utilize. 48 base speed is the only downside, but 252 speed Adamant was fast enough in RU.

CB Outrage is monstrous, 2HKO'ing stuff like max def Weezing, and Earthquake/Superpower is super effective on a lot of high def physical wall candidates; Regirock without heavily investing in def is 2HKO'd by EQ. Other options at this point are pretty much filler.

I haven't tested it, but pseudo-mixed Sheer Force Life Orb could work, as while physically defensive Tangela can take a few Outrages, Flamethrower is an easy 2HKO, even without Sp Atk investment.

Other notable options include Glare, Sucker Punch, and Dragon Tail.

[Wrave]

With all these physical attackers, Flame Orb Floatzel could be dangerous.

[Lady Salamence]

Originally Posted by Fat Raikaria

---

EDIT: I've submitted a... well... submission for a NU Tourny. Hopefully, this will help spurn interest in the NU metagame, and help us learn more about it.

Damn i was going to do that

[WinstonShnozwick]

Cryogonal looks like one of the best spinners in the tier. Wow he's going to be awesome. And a nice stop to the few dragons with a fast ice beam.

[Aleva]

I'm looking at Mesprit here. It has good natural bulk, and a decent SpA, along with BoltBeam coverage and CM. Sounds awesome! It can also set up rocks, spread paralysis and be a decent scarfer with access to Trick.

Oh and, Hail stall with Articuno, anyone?

[kniteowl]

With all the Hazard abusers, Evolite Natu to the rescue!

Seriously, even if you just use it to wall Sabeye. and it's got useful support moves.

[Asterat]

Originally Posted by Fat Lady Salamence

seriously, why does everyone overlook zweilous?

Because if fraxure. Seek pus may have the most powerful outrage in the game but fracture gets DD and a better accuracy. Zweilous is a one trick pony which is basically asking for some ice type like cyrogonal to cone in and be a bitch.

[locoghoul]

Originally Posted by Fat Aleva

I'm looking at Mesprit here. It has good natural bulk, and a decent SpA, along with BoltBeam coverage and CM. Sounds awesome! It can also set up rocks, spread paralysis and be a decent scarfer with access to Trick.

You forgot TR. Seriously TR can dominate this tier like nobody's business

[Bodofagod]

I've played a few nu matches, on wifi regardless but here's what I've noticed

Offensive Threats- SIMIPOUR is a bitch!! 101 base speed is really trolly down here. She is the only water type in the game to get nasty plot besides slowbro/king but they are too slow to use it correctly. Simipour is by far the biggest offensive threat I've seen so far.
Scolipede has been doing good for me. It makes a fast spikes lead (which is good for me because accelgor became such a neccesity for my team in ru) also if you throw a choice band on scolipede it can wreck a huge majority of the tier with megahorn or rock slide.
Fraxure is wrecking face with either dragon dance or choice band.
Absol is pretty pro down here.
There is a lot of ground weak pokemon down here so Dugtrio is a must have revenge killer.
Carracosta with shell smash is capable of taking down unprepared nu teams in 7 turns flat. He is defineatly a pokemon to watch out for.


Defensive Threats-
I have seen wartortle in almost every single battle. Hes annoying as all hell. His biggest use is being the only useful spinner in the tier that isnt weak to rock (torkoal, cryogonal, and armaldo are weak to rock and spinda doesn't quite cut it as a spinner lol)
Gurdurr is playing the exact same set as his ou counterpart to success.
I haven't seen a single physcial attacker in this tier able to do any damage to torkoal.

Looking through this thread I'm intrested to try out altaria, but I haven't actually faced one myself yet.

NU is pretty fun but I think I want to stick with RU for the time being because I miss my accelgor

[Raikaria]

I've qyite easily broken through Torkoal with Swellow. Facade was 2HKO'ing. Having high defense is all well and good... until you realise your HP sucks, as does your typing in regards to defense.

Still, I needed a decent special attacker for my team, and I comppletely forgot about Simipour.

Also, Rapidash is actually pretty decent down here.

Rapidash @ Life Orb
Adamant Nature
Flash Fire
252 Atk/252 Spd/4 Def

- Flare Blitz
- Wild Charge
- Megahorn
- Will-O-Wisp/Morning Sun

The basic premise? Is to hit stuff hard. Hit stuff even harder if you get a Flash Fire boost. Water types? Wild Charge. Those bulky Psychics? Megahorn. Things like Rhyhorn? Will-O them.

Morning Sun is an option to keep 'Dash alive, kinda like UU Arcanine. However, with Rapidash being as frail as it is... it' not the best option, unless you want a wallbreaker.

Jolly could also work if you're specifically worried about Simipour, so you can Wild Charge to revenge kill it.

[elchupo]

Originally Posted by Fat Raikaria

I've qyite easily broken through Torkoal with Swellow. Facade was 2HKO'ing. Having high defense is all well and good... until you realise your HP sucks, as does your typing in regards to defense.

Still, I needed a decent special attacker for my team, and I comppletely forgot about Simipour.

Also, Rapidash is actually pretty decent down here.

Rapidash @ Life Orb
Adamant Nature
Flash Fire
252 Atk/252 Spd/4 Def

- Flare Blitz
- Wild Charge
- Megahorn
- Will-O-Wisp/Morning Sun

The basic premise? Is to hit stuff hard. Hit stuff even harder if you get a Flash Fire boost. Water types? Wild Charge. Those bulky Psychics? Megahorn. Things like Rhyhorn? Will-O them.

Morning Sun is an option to keep 'Dash alive, kinda like UU Arcanine. However, with Rapidash being as frail as it is... it' not the best option, unless you want a wallbreaker.

Jolly could also work if you're specifically worried about Simipour, so you can Wild Charge to revenge kill it.

How about going mixed with HP Grass for the last moveslot?

Base 80 SpA is quite decent, especially when you take into account the fact that 'Dash gets excellent coverage with Flare Blitz/Wild Charge/ Megahorn, and would only need HP to deal with specific threats that physical Rapidash can't touch, like the aforementioned Rhydon.

For example, HP Grass from an entirely un-invested, neutral natured Rapidash does a minimum of 65.7% to 252HP Eviolite Rhydon. I think that definitely warrants a mention.

[Raikaria]

Originally Posted by Fat elchupo

How about going mixed with HP Grass for the last moveslot?

Base 80 SpA is quite decent, especially when you take into account the fact that 'Dash gets excellent coverage with Flare Blitz/Wild Charge/ Megahorn, and would only need HP to deal with specific threats that physical Rapidash can't touch, like the aforementioned Rhydon.

For example, HP Grass from an entirely un-invested, neutral natured Rapidash does a minimum of 65.7% to 252HP Eviolite Rhydon. I think that definitely warrants a mention.

I would consider it, but I already cover Rhydon and Rock/Ground types pretty well witht he rest of my team.

HP Grass is certainly viable, however.

[alexwolf]

Originally Posted by Fat Raikaria

If you could please explain any reason to use Zweilous over Altaria, instead of claiming we're overlooking it?

It may have more brute physical power off the bat... at the cost of accuracy. Altaria can just go Dragon Dance too to sort that issue out.

Altaria has Natural Cure, so dosen't care about status. It can also go mixed quite well.

Most importantly, Altaria has Roost and Reliable recovery, as well as a better seondary type.

Altaria also has things like Sing, Cotton Guard, Cloud Nine [In case Rain Dance gets popularity for the power boost, not just Swift Swim], as well as attacks Zweilous cannot use, such as Ice Beam. A stall-set is probobly rather possible between Cotton Guard, Roost, Sp.Def EV's and Roar.

Oh, and she can troll Smashpass with Perish Song.

I see no reason whatsoever to use Zweilous over Altaria, except the SR factor, which is easily sorted by Roost [And immunity to Spikes]. Hell, if you wanted an Evolite Dragon... I'd choose Shelgon.

Because you seem to be quite uninformed about Zweilous let me enlighten you about some things...
First of all Zweilous has 442 attack with the Hustle boost.This is higher than Rayquaza's attack.
If you add in a CB boost it goes to 663!
Adamant Life Orb Altaria needs to 2 DDs to go to 681 Attack(with Life Orb),which is almost the same as Zweilous's.
So Altaria cannot just 'simply go DD' to solve the problem, 'cause noone is going to give you 2 free turns,and you are not Dragonite to get them via Roosting.
Also Zweilous is an amazing Trick Room powerhouse 2hkoing everything in NU with just Outrage,except Bastiodon,Propobass and Aggron which can all be trapped and killed by HP ground Magneton.

So please next time stop theorymoning everything and dismissing pokes before you even try them out,and actually give them a shot if you want to judge them.

Originally Posted by Fat Raikaria

I fail to see how something with Hustle, Base 85 Atk, a pretty bad physical movepool, and a mere Base 58 Speed can even be thought of as a sweeper for two seconds, especially with no form of setting up.

It's a wallbreaker at best. A pretty awful one too, due to aformentioned accuracy issues, and the fact that it's purely physical, and that if it want to use Dragon STAB, it has to lock itself into 80% accuracy Outrage... or resort to Hustle Dragon Rush... yeah, brilliant idea that.

And the point still stands that offensive Altaria completely outclasses Zweilous. The only reason you would ever use it is because you're already using Altaria, in some kind of Double-Dragon tactic. But even then... I'd choose Shelgon because he can at least set up, has a far better physical movepool, and his high physical defense complement's Altaria's high Special Defense.

Again stop talking random theorymon.Altaria outclasses Zweilous only in your mind.

[elchupo]

Just to add my 2 cents about Zweilous, I always see people talking on here about what a powerhouse CB Hustle Zweilous is but I never see any mention of the downside of Hustle, that being the drop in accuracy. I don't really care how powerful the thing is, if every move its using has Stone-Edge like accuracy (assuming that it is using all moves that have 100% accuracy already) it doesn't seem worth it. It doesn't matter if the move will KO 10 times over, it has to actually hit first, meaning that every shot only has an 80% chance to KO.

I would take my chances with a bulky DD'er like Druddigon or Altaria over CB Hustle Zweilous anyday.

[Fangren]

Originally Posted by Fat alexwolf

Also Zweilous is an amazing Trick Room powerhouse 2hkoing everything in NU with just Outrage,except Bastiodon,Propobass and Aggron which can all be trapped and killed by HP ground Magneton.

Aggron isn't in NU, but Lairon is. Also, Magneton won't necessarily be getting a free switch to trap and kill the three Steels you listed - Lairon can hit it with EQ on the switch, while Probopass can simply Volt Switch into, say, Dugtrio or a faster Magneton to trap your trapper. Bastiodon...well, I'll concede that Bastiodon can't do much if it's trapped (EDIT: it can Roar, then switch out), unless it hasn't taken any damage yet (as it, as well as Probopass and Lairon, all have Sturdy) at which point Metal Burst is a viable option.

Zweilous also has to be wary of priority - not only is it weak to Piloswine's Ice Shard, but it also fears Gurdurr's Mach Punch.

[skitz0phrenic]

The miss hax with Hustle can actually go in your favor too at times. For example, missing an outrage on a physical wall switch-in, thereby not being locked in to a pointless Outrage for a few turns. You also don't get the confusion if you miss in the middle of the chain. It's not all bad.

Adamant Hustle CB Zweilous Outrage is one of, it not the strongest non-setup attacks in the game. It should come with some downfalls.

Comparison:

- Adamant 252 Atk Choice Band Hustle Zweilous Outrage vs 252 HP/252 Def Impish Miltank: 64.21% - 75.63%
2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

- Adamant 252 Atk Choice Band Victini V-create IN THE SUN vs 252 HP/252 Def Impish Miltank: 53.3% - 62.69%
2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

Seriously if you can hit anything that isn't steel with this beast it is likely to kill them, and it's not that hard to pull off.

Used as a TR sweeper it's pretty beastly. Get rid of steels, set up TR, GGs for the most part.

[bwburke94]

The OP needs to be updated with the results of the latest OU suspect test.

[Brophlosion]

One word. Golbat

[alexwolf]

Originally Posted by Fat Fangren

Aggron isn't in NU, but Lairon is. Also, Magneton won't necessarily be getting a free switch to trap and kill the three Steels you listed - Lairon can hit it with EQ on the switch, while Probopass can simply Volt Switch into, say, Dugtrio or a faster Magneton to trap your trapper. Bastiodon...well, I'll concede that Bastiodon can't do much if it's trapped (EDIT: it can Roar, then switch out), unless it hasn't taken any damage yet (as it, as well as Probopass and Lairon, all have Sturdy) at which point Metal Burst is a viable option.

Zweilous also has to be wary of priority - not only is it weak to Piloswine's Ice Shard, but it also fears Gurdurr's Mach Punch.

Lairon can simply fall to a Balloon Magneton.Or if you are so afraid of it koing you you can always bring Magneton in after something dies ensuing you the kill.Same for Propobass.

[mamoswineFTW]

Look, all the people that are hating on Hustle for 80% accuracy Choice Banded Outrages - many pokemon in OU and even Ubers happily use Choice Specs Hydro Pumps, which have the same accuracy as a Hustle-Outrage. SpecsToad being a prime example of this.

Or how about Stone Edge? There are numerous banded pokemon using Stone Edge and risking the accuracy drop in exchange for sheer POWER.

[elchupo]

Originally Posted by Fat skitz0phrenic

The miss hax with Hustle can actually go in your favor too at times. For example, missing an outrage on a physical wall switch-in, thereby not being locked in to a pointless Outrage for a few turns. You also don't get the confusion if you miss in the middle of the chain. It's not all bad.

Adamant Hustle CB Zweilous Outrage is one of, it not the strongest non-setup attacks in the game. It should come with some downfalls.

Comparison:

- Adamant 252 Atk Choice Band Hustle Zweilous Outrage vs 252 HP/252 Def Impish Miltank: 64.21% - 75.63%
2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

- Adamant 252 Atk Choice Band Victini V-create IN THE SUN vs 252 HP/252 Def Impish Miltank: 53.3% - 62.69%
2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

Seriously if you can hit anything that isn't steel with this beast it is likely to kill them, and it's not that hard to pull off.

Used as a TR sweeper it's pretty beastly. Get rid of steels, set up TR, GGs for the most part.

I'm sorry but that is a lot of prerequisites needed for Zweilous to sweep. Even if you do get rid of Steels, and set up Trick Room, you are still left with the ugly fact that a significant amount of Zweilous' attacks are going to end up as misses. Couple that with his poor defences and you have, for me, a set that isn't worth the trouble needed to get it up and running.

If CB Hustle Zweilous was in anyway good, I would have expected to seen far more of them than I have. Comparing it to Victini is quite relevant. Victini was vastly overhyped as having the most powerful move in the game ever, but is currently languishing in mid/ lower depths of the UU tier. I feel the same applies to Zweilous. It may have the most powerful Crunch and Outrage in the game, but in practicality it is not worth using based on those merits alone.

Originally Posted by Fat mamoswineFTW

Look, all the people that are hating on Hustle for 80% accuracy Choice Banded Outrages - many pokemon in OU and even Ubers happily use Choice Specs Hydro Pumps, which have the same accuracy as a Hustle-Outrage. SpecsToad being a prime example of this.

Or how about Stone Edge? There are numerous banded pokemon using Stone Edge and risking the accuracy drop in exchange for sheer POWER.

That may be so, but the problem isn't using one move with 80% accuracy, its whenever ALL Zweilous' moves have 80%, or worse, that you begin to realise that he's going to be missing, a lot.

[GtM]

Originally Posted by Fat skitz0phrenic

Comparison:

- Adamant 252 Atk Choice Band Hustle Zweilous Outrage vs 252 HP/252 Def Impish Miltank: 64.21% - 75.63%
2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

- Adamant 252 Atk Choice Band Victini V-create IN THE SUN vs 252 HP/252 Def Impish Miltank: 53.3% - 62.69%
2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

Erm, this is a pretty unfair test considering that Miltank resists V-Create with Thick Fat. Just sayin'.

[tomtom5858]

Originally Posted by Fat GtM

Erm, this is a pretty unfair test considering that Miltank resists V-Create with Thick Fat. Just sayin'.

QFT. Anyways, Miltank can just Milk Drink spam until it misses. Zweilous sucks. Deal with it.

[waterwarrior]

DUGTRIO. IS. NU.

Well, that's going to wreck some shit. Sure, 80 base Attack ain't great, but Arena Trap + Hone Claws or something like that works even better with less hard-hitters and more stall.