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Oct 18th, 2011, 6:47:12 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 318
Location: Where all tasks have been cleared
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Supe Nazi [DPP OU]
The Supe Nazi
      "Ah, the good 'ole days." Intro Well, Smogon Tour 12 is finally over and I've been knocked out of the DPP OU tournament hosted by ENZ0 and Steven Snype. I figured I'd post this team now as it's been something I've been working on since probably the middle of the summer. This will be my second RMT here on Smogon and I'm looking to make some final tweaks to this team as well before fully jumping into 5th gen. I do still enjoy DPP however and will probably continue to tweak and use this team as there are a LOT of ideas I've thought of that I haven't tried yet. These will be posted in the Considered Changes sections of this RMT for each member, but keep in mind that it's all theorymon right now and the changes I'm thinking about haven't really been tested yet. I doubt I will be using this for any future tournaments, however. Anyway, I wanted to get some suggestions from you guys first as well as tell me if you think my suggestions would be good for this team as I've kinda hit a crossroad. Before I introduce the members, though, I encourage you to read about the history of this team below. If you don't read it, just keep in mind the team members you see above are from the original team and is NOT the current team I have now, which is below. History It all started when I was lurking in the Giveaway section of the forums about a year or so ago, looking for the next big giveaway to participate in to get access to better Pokémon. I hadn't been playing for very long and the teams I had made thus far weren't very good. Then, a well-known Smogonite named Supe posted a giveaway celebrating his birthday. Basically, you had to build a team with the Pokémon he had in his trade thread and post it to the giveaway thread in RMT format. The team had to be good, but extra points were given if you were original and not gimmicky. I wanted to do an Ubers team, but I didn't know the metagame very well, so I went with building a DPP OU team. I didn't win the giveaway because I made the most unoriginal team ever(see above), but I was a runner-up and therefore, I won "half the team I built". I picked the Pokémon I didn't have and would be tough for me to get the exact sets for at the time: Gliscor, Jirachi, and Flygon. The rest was easy as I either already had them or I just had to EV train them. Thus, I affectionately named the team The Supe Nazi, after both Supe and a certain episode of Seinfeld (a great show btw). This team goes down in my history as the first "good" team I ever built. It consisted of Lead Gliscor/Life Orb Starmie/Offensive Dragon Dance Gyarados/Calm Mind Wish Jirachi/Choice Scarf Flygon/Mixed Tyranitar. I still sucked at the time, but the team literally won games for me all by itself in it's inception, given the current metagame at the time(Salamence had JUST left the tier). It helped that around this time, my teambuilding skills were starting to develop a little bit. However, with the DPP OU metagame continuing to develop even after BW was released, the team itself became less effective, so I retired it while it was still "on top" so to speak. I recently decided to bring it out of retirement, but I knew it was in need of an overhaul. The old team was extremely weak to offensive Grass types such as Shaymin and (now) Celebi as well as offensive Water types if my Water resists went down. I looked at what the current metagame was, with a focus on popular lead combinations(Starmie/Metagross in particular). I also wanted to use a slightly different team building process as up until now, I'd been roughly following the one I learned in the 2010 Seminar from Kevin Garrett, which is what many people follow. Teambuilding Process
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The Team       Navi - Uxie @ Lum Berry
The original lead, Gliscor, loses to a lot of stuff in the lead spot these days. I knew I would change this spot as soon as I decided to un-retire this team. I absolutely love leading with this. It's akin to Swampert as far as reliability, but IMO it performs better than lead Swampert does in this metagame. It has Levitate so it's unaffected by Spikes and Toxic Spikes and gives Uxie a Ground immunity, it sets up SR, it U-Turns to gain momentum and maintain it as well as controlling the tempo of the game and it's got STAB Psychic. I can say I'm never truly at a disadvantage with Uxie leading the squad, even in scenarios that look bad. I occasionally swap this with Colbur Azelf and both perform the lead role equally well for different reasons. Uxie has the bulk to survive at least until midgame, while U-Turning and crippling key Pokémon with paralysis via Thunder Wave. Azelf is more of an offensive threat and also has disruption via Taunt, although it is much frailer even with EV's invested in bulk. This Uxie is specifically designed to beat Machamp and Starmie leads, while doing well against everything else. The given EV's and nature look weird, but they make sure Uxie is as physically bulky as possible to take Pursuits from the likes of Tyranitar and Scizor as well as U-Turns from the latter. It also bolsters the Fighting resist against things like Infernape. After talking with a few people, they suggested an EV spread of 180 Def / 76 SpA with a Relaxed nature over the previous spread of max HP / max Def with a Quiet nature. The new spread is the superior one, giving me 15 more Defense and keeping the same Special Attack stat, but I decided to take it a step further and add 20 EV's to SpA to guarantee the 2HKO on Machamp instead of missing it 1% of the time. It still has 10 more Defense than the old spread. Anyway, Relaxed nature is to make sure Uxie is as slow as possible to take hits first, particularly against Starmie, then U-Turn out to something else that can come in safely(namely Scizor). 96 Special Attack EV's get the 2HKO on Lead Machamp. Lum Berry is there to heal any status from sleep leads as well as Machamp users that want to get cute and use DynamicPunch just for the confusion hax.
Lead Strategy: I stole this from Faladran because, honestly, not much has changed...and I don't like ponies
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 Muffin - Heatran @ Life Orb
Life Orb Starmie used to be in this slot on the old team. Heatran has been kind of an oddball, however, and to this day I'm still thinking I can put better use to this slot. It's not so much because of Heatran itself because Heatran has great resistances and typing for this team. It's more because of the set I'm using. This is the standard Life Orb set with Taunt to cripple switch-ins such as Blissey as well as potentially blow holes in defensive Fire/Water/Grass cores. I really feel like Life Orb Heatran is filler in this team though, mainly because it lacks longevity and I honestly think I can use a better set, although I'm afraid the team will be too defensive if I choose something like Specially Defensive Heatran as this set can come in ready to do damage immediately.
 Kain - Dragonite @ Life Orb
The second Pokémon I chose for this team. This slot used to be occupied by Offensive DD Gyarados on the old team. I chose the MixNite set for a few reasons: MixNite is already a huge threat in this metagame, but when combined with Wish support from something like Jirachi, it becomes an ever bigger problem since it's longevity is increased and it's SR weakness is virtually negated. I used to go with the standard spread, but I was tired of max Speed Heatrans coming in and using Explosion on me. I was also tired of Adamant Lucario outrunning me, so I opted for a different EV spread. I now use max Speed with Naive nature similar to MixMence. I would run Hasty, but I wanted to have as much insurance as possible against Fighting attacks such as Infernape's Close Combat. The EV's allow me to outrun all non-Scarfed Heatran and all Adamant Lucario and get the jump on them before Dragonite even gets scratched. I've caught more than my fair share of opponents off guard with this spread.
 Third Eye - Jirachi @ Leftovers
The only slot that hasn't changed. This is the set everyone knows: Calm Mind + Wish Jirachi. The biggest reason I love this set is because it does well against all team styles. It can support it's teammates with Wish against offense(namely Dragonite) and it performs very well against stall, setting up and beating stall's own counters to Jirachi(aka Blissey). Heatran, Tyranitar, and Infernape are Jirachi's biggest issues, though. I went with the standard spread and it's something I've gotten very comfortable with. The bulk on this thing is amazing to the point where I can use it as a light counter to Gyarados. The only way Gyarados will beat Jirachi is if it's an offensive variant AND it has to Earthquake to catch it on the switch, in which case it's a 2HKO. If they switch thinking something is fishy, usually SR is already up and between that and constant pressure from Heatran(another reason why I spam Fire Blast as Gyara LOVES to come in on Heatran), Gyara is hard pressed to do any real damage before going down. Offensive Gyarados is very rare these days anyway and people would rather use Bulky Gyara, who commonly doesn't carry Earthquake(even if it does, it's a pathetic 3HKO at best when unboosted). This is the only slot I will not change.
 Quina - Quagsire @ Leftovers
I must thank LizardMan for this set. The earlier builds of this team struggled with Life Orb Starmie outside the lead spot and Suicune in general. I always had to play around them to beat them and that usually involved saccing a team member to do so(and many times I ended up just checking them, which isn't good enough). On the original team, I had Scarf Flygon in this spot who also ended up just checking Starmie in the end without actually beating it. I was also looking for something to cover Electric types like Zapdos and Jolteon. I've tried CursePert, CurseTar, BluffGon, and Specially Defensive Swampert here as well to no avail. I finally gave Quagsire a whirl and it has not disappointed. One of the few, and maybe only, hard counters to Starmie and Suicune(In hindsight, I might actually be overprepared for Starmie). Life Orb Starmie barely 3HKO's Quag and Suicune isn't doing anything without boosts, which is a bad scenario for it since I carry Encore and Toxic with Recover. CroCune is COMPLETELY walled by this as well as Rapid Spin Starmie without Ice Beam due to Water Absorb. Quagsire is the second part of the infamous "QuagTran" combo as well, Encoring last stat-up pokes on their boosting move and then sending in Heatran to Taunt it for an embarrasing death. This thing has worked great for me and would be tough to change, although there is one 'mon I would switch it to which I will list below.
 Bayonetta - Scizor @ Choice Scarf
This. Thing. ROCKS! Choice Scarf Scizor is almost solely responsible for the pivot game and for general scouting on this team. It also happens to surprisingly be the fastest member on this team as without it, this team is pretty slow. I love U-Turning on lead Starmie with Uxie, going to this guy to give the opponent the false sense of security that I'm Choice Banded and therefore slower, only to find out I outspeed and OHKO one of the biggest offensive threats in DPP OU by turn 2. I don't even care if they know I'm Scarfed at that point and if they do switch thinking something is up, I still get switch advantage and, depending on who I'm playing, they still don't know for sure if I'm Scarfed or not. Anyway, Choice Scarf Scizor outspeeds everything up to base 120 speed that isn't carrying a Scarf themselves thanks to max Speed and a Jolly nature. I was actually going to use ScarfTar here, but Scizor became my excuse for being lazy and not breeding a good ScarfTar on my actual game cartridge(go ahead, laugh :-/ ). I tried it and it was awesome! This plays a lot differently than Choice Band Scizor. U-Turn is one of the best moves to use early game with a Choiced poke and Choice Band Scizor really can't afford to be locked into anything else w/o knowing the opponent's entire team. This is what makes using Choice Band really sad as you can't even unlock it's full power with Bullet Punch safely until late game. Trapping with Pursuit can also be dangerous. So I figured why not abuse U-Turn, the best early game move on a set that is meant to scout first to weaken counters as opposed to dishing out big damage. I still may switch to ScarfTar(I have a good one now ;-/ ) to still trap Starmie and get residual damage going with Sand Stream.
Conclusion Well, that's it. Boy was that a lengthy one. I hope you guys enjoyed reading this as much as I enjoyed writing it. Threat list will possibly come later on, but don't be afraid to rate this now. It's been fun with this team and I will continue to tweak it, but it's time to move on to other ideas. I'm never good at ending things, so don't just sit there. Rate away. Importable
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Last edited by JackieChun; May 17th, 2013 at 2:17:55 PM. Reason: Corrected grammatical errors. Added importable listing of team. |
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Azelf - Azelf has too many possible sets now: Choice Band, Choice Scarf, Colbur Azelf, Life Orb, and Standard Focus Sash Lead. No need to mess around. Just U-Turn to scout which set it is and go to Scizor to U-Turn again. Choiced users will typically U-Turn turn 1 and if it does roughly half, you know it's Banded.
Machamp - Easy. I can't stand the fact that people still use this, but Uxie is tailor made to beat it. Psychic twice and you'll get the 2HKO thanks to Lum Berry in case they get cute and DynamicPunch off the bat. Their best bet is Payback, damage wise, which doesn't OHKO.
Aerodactyl - I haven't really faced these lately to be honest. The safest option is to just go for the 3HKO while they Taunt you, Stealth Rock and then hit you with a Rock Slide. Just hope you don't get flinch haxed. Every other possibilty either has your teammates get hurt or OHKO'd or you end up locking into Bullet Punch with Scizor, giving them a chance to set up on you(if they're leading with Aero, there's a good chance their team is very offensive).
Metagross - Typically I will Stealth Rock as they Stealth Rock, then U-Turn out to Heatran turn 2 as they Meteor Mash. Then I just blast them with either Fire Blast, predicting Gyarados or Dragonite, or the safer Earth Power. If they Explode turn 2, Heatran is severly crippled but you get a bulky Steel out of the way that can trouble Jirachi if it carried Earthquake. Quagsire can take Metagross on as well if you don't want to risk Heatran.
Swampert - Similar to Metagross, but on turn 2, I will actually Psychic as their best option is to Roar on turn 2. Ice Beam does nothing to Uxie(it does 40% to Gengar of all things), so if they do Ice Beam, it just gives me another turn to Psychic again. If they Roar me into Dragonite, I Draco Meteor. Heatran: Hidden Power Grass. Scizor: U-Turn back to Uxie. Jirachi: go back to Uxie until he Roars me into something good. Quagsire: Toxic.
Infernape - Attempt to Stealth Rock turn 1. If they Fake Out, I go for it again and then Psychic for the 2HKO since it's the standard suicide lead and the sooner Ape is gone, the better. If they don't Fake Out, there's a few options. If they Stealth Rock turn 1, I will actually Thunder Wave turn 2 as nowadays they could carry U-Turn and I go from there. If it's Scarfed, they will typically U-Turn turn 1, so I will typically Thunder Wave the switch-in depending on what it is(usually a trapper like Tyranitar or Scizor or a setup poke). I have seen so many players stay in with Ape however, so I just destroy it if that's the case.
Heatran - Tricky only because Choice Specs is still a possibility. Usually, I will switch directly to Dragonite as my own Heatran is too risky(I've never seen Specially Defensive Heatran used in the lead spot). They will always either Stealth Rock or go for Fire STAB, so I go for Superpower to force it out since I will outspeed. I've caught so many people with this strategy since they think my Dragonite is slower for some reason. If they Overheat turn 1, I will Roost predicting the switch as they will only 2HKO with Specs Overheat if they roll max damage twice. Unlikely.
Jirachi - Usually, I will just hard switch to Scizor since most of the time it's Scarfed. They'll either Trick or Iron Head and I go from there. Heatran is usually the next switch after that. I could go to it turn 1 instead of Scizor, but Trick is always possible. Even though having a second revenge killer in ScarfTran is good, you may need the power of Life Orb for unseen threats and this team is meant to scout first.
Roserade - I really haven't seen these, but this is one that is actually tough somewhat. Basically, something is going to sleep so I wouldn't bother with Psychic as Roserade is faster and you won't get the 2HKO in time. Also, a double U-Turn from Uxie and Scizor only OHKO's 60% of the time so that's risky as well(and if it's Scarf Roserade with HP bulk, forget it). Setting up Stealth Rock is honestly the best bet and just let Uxie snooze after that. Either Scizor or Heatran will be your safe switch-in: you just have to bait the Hidden Power to see which one it is.
Hippowdon - Another one I haven't really seen, thankfully. This is arguably the worst matchup if it's Specially Defensive and one of the reason why I'm considering a different spread on Dragonite(see below), although the extra damage I would do isn't much. Otherwise, I handle it similar to Swampert. If it's Specially Defensive, you are doing less damage with Psychic(15-20% max after Leftovers IIRC). The only thing Hippo can do after Stealth Rock is Roar. If they have Crunch, I just spam Psychic until Uxie dies as most likely I'm up against Stall, so everything is slow anyway aside from ScarfTar. Other that that I have to play around my opponent and either bring in Quagsire on a turn where they Slack Off to threaten Toxic or force them into a situation where my Heatran is in and they are at 53% or less as Fire Blast will OHKO from there. Sometimes you will get a luck break and they will switch out turn 1 thinking you are TrickScarf and usually ScarfTar is the switch-in. You can then paralyze it and get out, though you will be severely weakened.
Starmie - Easy. I U-Turn, letting Uxie take Hydro Pump and then go to Scizor to U-Turn again since it's Scarfed and, therefore, outspeeds. Dead Starmie most of the time and if they switch, I get switch advantage. I still have Quagsire to handle it later on if they do switch out. This team is well prepared for Starmie, which is something not many teams can say.
Dragonite - I know the power of this lead firsthand as I use it on one of my other teams(honestly, I feel partially responsible for it's recent resurgence, albeit a small one). Most actually carry Life Orb still(IMO Lum Berry is superior). That said, I will Stealth Rock turn 1 since Thunder Wave is risky due to the possibility of Lum Berry. Draco Meteor is their best chance to 2HKO Uxie which only happens roughly 40% of the time. If they are Quiet Nature with no speed(most of them are and Uxie outruns those), I will go to Heatran to bait the Earthquake or Superpower, then go to Dragonite who also outruns standard lead Dragonite and standard MixNite, threatening my own Draco Meteor.
Gliscor - This team doesn't like Gliscor, particularly the Stallbreaker set. If it's leading though, I always Psychic turn 1 as they will most likely Taunt. Then, I U-Turn to Dragonite as they Stealth Rock and threaten the OHKO with Draco Meteor to force it out. Usually, I will Fire Blast instead predicting their switch. From there, it's a matter of bringing in Heatran safely or keeping Dragonite alive to take it down later on.
Tyranitar - I've seen so many people use this as their lead, but have hardly ever faced them myself. I know that they can typically carry Payback and they aren't OHKO'd by lead Starmie IIRC, so I just U-Turn outright knowing I can take a Pursuit if they carry it and go to Scizor to threaten it. If they stay in, I get more damage since I'll outspeed and go from there. If they switch, I maintain switch advantage.
Skarmory - Taunt is usually standard on lead Skarm. I go to Heatran immediately as Spikes are somewhat annoying for this team and I can't give Skarm any openings to set them up. From there, I have to play Dragonite carefully as far as what moves I show(spamming Extremespeed if I have it) to try and bait Skarm back in for the Fire Blast or just never allow it to come back in period. Skarm is tough to handle in the hands of a good player.
Forretress - Same as Skarmory. It's tempting to get Stealth Rock up first turn, but keep in mind 2 layers of Spikes is pretty bad for this team; Scizor and Heatran in particular. It puts more pressure on Jirachi to try and heal.|
Oct 18th, 2011, 6:47:58 PM
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#2 |
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 318
Location: Where all tasks have been cleared
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Reserved for threat list.....hopefully.
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Oct 19th, 2011, 4:56:28 AM
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i would challenge you to a battle of wits, but i see that you are unarmed
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Oh man.. you took my most beloved pokemon ever, Quagsire, and slotted it into a competetive team. Thankyou for that.
As for the rate.. First of all, while all of your pokemon but one are unaffected by Toxic Spikes, the one that is effected is absolutely shut down by them. Poison destroys Quagsire for the rest of the game, effectively meaning if your opponent gets up two layers you are one pokemon short. While I'm not going to suggest any direct changes as it would disrupt your team synergy, I will point out that replacing Heatran with Tentacruel could help Quags individually. It can Rapid Spin SR away for Dragonite, absorb Toxic Spikes for Quags, and its weaknesses are covered by your team already (Ground covered by Dragonite, Electric by Quagsire, and Psychic by Jirachi). Specially based mixed Infernape eats through everything in your team bar Uxie; for this reason, I strongly reccomend the change you are considering of Heatran to Dugtrio. Other than that, it looks like a solid team, and you are officialy awesome for using Quags :D |
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Oct 19th, 2011, 6:04:37 AM
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#4 |
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南Potest 华Qui 人Vult
    
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HIHI!! Nice team yet again. I always enjoyed reading your RMTs. :D As Shame That mentioned, your team is weak to Specially offensive infernape ( not mix ape acutally ) specially offensive infernape tend to carry HP ice and nulifies dragonite. And uxie is probably your best counter against it. Seeing that uxie is the lead, it'll probably be crippled early in the match. Also, another threat i see maybe DD dragonite with EQ. Since scizor doesnt have CB, it can't go for a 2HKO. Although you have 3 steels to stop it from using outrage, it can pretty well dent your team with just Earthquake and a coverage move to hit Quagsire and Uxie rather hard. Some DD dragonites even carry Lum berry so Twave wont stop it either and if it uses outrage it can cure confusion. Quagsire may tank an outrage but since people see that you have so many steels, they will unlikely lock themselves into outrage so early. Again, your best way to stop DD dnite is uxie. So if your opponent has both infernape and DD dnite, uxie is going to have a hard time without recovery.
Quagsire seems like your best counter to Starmie and Suicune. But people tend to forget there is yet another wonderful counter: Lanturn. Why not replace Quagsire with Lanturn? Sorry Shame That :O  OU sub charge Lanturn @ leftovers Ability: Volt Absorb Nature: Modest EVs: 52 HP / 252 SpA / 148 SpD / 56 Spe
Uxie seems to be your only status absorber... I have no idea how you handle Roserade leads since they put you to sleep once and do it again next turn... So i suggest putting Dragonite in lead position to act as a wonderful anti-lead. Use lum berry over lifeorb and use extremespeed over roost. Pirority always make it a nice anti lead. Then you can change uxie to leftovers if you want or retain lumberry for another status absorber. Dnite is also i nice counter to breloom, resisting its dual STAB provided it doesnt get the sleep. Now about Toxic Spikes. With Dragonite as lead, it handles most roserade leads by 2HKOing it with the sash and lum berry for the sleep. Most leads don't have HP ice to worry about i think. Unless it decides not to sleep you, it can land a layer of toxic spikes but that rarely happens. So with Dnite as lead, most likely you can keep the field clear of it so lanturn has an easier time. The next 2 common toxic spikes user are forretress and tentacruel. Forretress with toxic spikes rarely have EQ. When those 2 come in, its the perfect time to switch in to Lanturn. Therefore, you switch in at the same turn the use (toxic) spikes. This allows you to set up sub charge as well. Thus lanturn can start sweeping sometimes when your opponent is unprepared for it. Ironically, Quagsire counters this Lanturn set. LOLs. :D oh yea. by the way, Quagsire can't counter DD taunt Gyara. Leave the countering of Gyara job to jirachi since you say it cant get OHKOed and has wish to heal itself later. I don't really know how you counter DD Dnite for now and i havn't figured out what to change to help you counter it. I don't really see why you have heatran on your team. Since your team aim is probably to let jirachi sweep, maybe replace heatran with something that can aid jirachi? Jirachi is weak to fire and ground. Scizor can scare away ttars but cant switch into EQ. For now, i havn't found a solution to DD dnite. Maybe you can explain how you deal with it. I like the use of scarf scizors. I've used scarf more than CB scizors... It is nice to uturn on LO starmies trying to OHKO with hydro pump and KO it instead. Scarf scizor is also one of the least used SD luc counters. Edit: oh. Just to take note, snorlax walls everything on your team except dragonite and scizor but can't really do much against your team with those 2 around. If you would, try grass knot over twave on uxie. Uxie is better at yawning that abusing twave. Grassknot allows your to handle grounds like swampert when it tries to stop jirachi sweeping. Although lanturn and jirachi are both special sweepers, blissey will have trouble walling them. Overall i like your team pretty much and don't find much problem with it. And in summary: Dragonite to lead position Lanturn over Quagsire. See if you like those suggestions. Hope i helped :)J Last edited by sandshrewz; Oct 19th, 2011 at 7:29:21 AM. |
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Oct 19th, 2011, 6:27:22 AM
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#5 |
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 720
The Gastronomicon
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Your EV spread for Uxie is inefficient. Whilst your current one yields a spread of 354 HP, 359 Def and 204 SpA, a spread of 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 SpA with a Relaxed nature gives you 354 HP, 376 Def and 204 SpA. That's a 15 point difference in Defense for free! You could also run 252 HP / 124 Def / 132 SpA with Relaxed to put those extra 15 points into Special Attack instead.
Tip: Always try and use a boosting nature on the largest stat in a complex EV spread.
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Triple Double! Gyarados + Salamence RMT Red Skull's Army! Latias RMT I Burrascusi Italiani! Gyarados + Jolteon RMT "How does this team fare against Sun teams? I would give Scizor Aqua Jet over Bug Bite so he can pick off those fire pokemon." |
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Oct 19th, 2011, 8:17:59 AM
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i would challenge you to a battle of wits, but i see that you are unarmed
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Quote:
In any case, I am half half in support for your suggestions. Moving Dragonite to the lead appears to be an excellent choice; That's Roserade countered. But what I was curious about Is Lanturn. I simply fail to see what he brings that Quags didn't already (Quags already countered Starmie and Suicune better). I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just honestly curious. As you pointed out, Lanturn counters Specially based mixed attacker Infernape, but replacing Heatran with Dugtrio would not only leave Quags to counter Cune / Starmie, it would counter Nape and DD Nite with EdgeQuake. Like I said, no rudeness here, just honestly curious (its not even my thread lol). |
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Oct 19th, 2011, 8:36:52 AM
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#7 |
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南Potest 华Qui 人Vult
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Hi Shame That again! xD
oops. Lols. Lanturn doesn't really counter infernape now I think. Still takes quite a lot from close combat. Well, lanturn can counter suicune and starmie just like quagsire albeit without recovery. Lanturn provides a more offensive way of countering and gives him more momentum. You've seen how well Argine swept with this set as well havn't you? :) 2 special sweepers will greatly stress the opponent's special wall. Lanturn can sweep as back up or used as lure to remove jirachi's counter since both are ground weak. It may not do the job better than quagsire but at least as well as it does. Hope i'm talking about what you're asking xD hm. About dugtrio. I'm as scepticle about dugtrio as you are about lanturn... I don't see how dugtrio can switch into infernape safely. StoneEdge may not OHKO dnite I think, I didn't run any calcs. StoneEdge has a shaky accuracy as well and relying on it to counter isn't a good idea. Lols. ESpeed may KO dugtrio. Again, I have not ran any calcs. :O i'll try running a few calcs first :) edit: ran calcs. CB jolly dugtrio's StoneEdge does 76.8% - 90.4% to offensive dragonite. Quite a decent amount but with SR, its OHKO. But +1 LO ESpeed OHKOs dugtrio as well. Lols. So it doesn't counter that either... So we need an infernape and dnite counter.. I think... Jolly is needed for dugtrio to outspeed infernape... Last edited by sandshrewz; Oct 19th, 2011 at 8:47:56 AM. |
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Oct 19th, 2011, 8:44:55 AM
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#8 |
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i would challenge you to a battle of wits, but i see that you are unarmed
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Oh yeah. I'be felt the sting of that Lanturn... *shudders*
And yeah, I get what you're talking about :) and while I know that Stone Edge is shaky to rely on, it seems to be the best choice ATM to counter both of them bar, say, Scarfmie. In theory, Scarfmie would work here, as it wipes the floor with both Dragonite and Infernape, as well as a Suicune / Blissey crippler, but I don't see huge synergy with Lanturn there. But I can keep thinking :) |
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Oct 19th, 2011, 8:52:27 AM
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#9 |
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Banned deucer.
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 249
So Whats Up Brah?
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Love the team hate the title, Nice team the only things I see causing you problems is Mix Infernape because Grass knot OHKO Quagsire and Dragonite doesn't like Stone Edge, I suggest Tyranitar on this team because it can take care of your threats and also alot of your pokemon benefit from Sand.
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Oct 19th, 2011, 8:55:13 AM
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#10 | |
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南Potest 华Qui 人Vult
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Lols. You fought my scarfmie before right? :) a wondeful failsafe but I think it gets OHKOed by Expeed as well. Lols. Scarfmie counters another starmie and cripples suicune, but I feel lanturn would fit better since you don't need to predict behind a sub. Scarfmie shouldn't be used early in game to counter threats thanks to the ever present scarf ttars... So yea, i'll still prefer lanturn instead. It's still up to him though. Lols. Oh. Donphan can iceShard and 2HKO dnite and survive a grassknot I think... |
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Oct 19th, 2011, 9:05:11 AM
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#11 |
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i would challenge you to a battle of wits, but i see that you are unarmed
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You sure love your donphans xD
Well yeah, that's what I meant, Lanturn > Quags (can't believe I just said that) and Scarfmie > Heatran... would Weavile be an option? Specially mixed Nape doesn't carry Vacuum Wave / Mach Punch, which means Weavile could outspeed it.. not sure if that's enough to save it though :L Or the other options in Donphan, Mamoswine (destroyed.by nape), Frosslass maybe, as a spiker and Dnite killer? |
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Oct 19th, 2011, 9:15:02 AM
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#12 |
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南Potest 华Qui 人Vult
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Lols. I like donphan cos it pairs very well with gyara. Sorry jackiechun for filling your RMT with this chatter. Lols ;) I have no idea how much grassknot does to donphan though. I think scarf froslass may counter dnite and infernape to some extent but it has pretty low SpA. Yet again, using a scarf to counter threats isn't always a good idea due to those scarf ttars ( I think scarf ttar is the worst ttar set. Lols). Slowbro with icebeam may counter them, do you think so? But it adds another grass weakness. Donphan seems like the only non-ice to use ice shard :/
edit: oh dear... Grassknot OHKOs donphan with SR :O also, I find twave on uxie kind of contradicting... Uxie is supposed to abuse its slow uturn and scizor can follow up with a fast uturn. By paralyzing your opponent, it makes your uturn faster unless your opponent switches out. Try grassknot? Last edited by sandshrewz; Oct 19th, 2011 at 10:04:37 AM. |
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Oct 19th, 2011, 4:50:35 PM
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#13 |
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 318
Location: Where all tasks have been cleared
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@ Shame That: The thought of carrying a Rapid Spinner has crossed my mind to take more pressure off of Jirachi and Dragonite, but I never considered Tentacruel. Overall, Toxic Spikes have never been a problem, but I've had a few big games where it was a big deal since Quagsire was key in those games. It even hurts when I switch it in on one layer to give it permanent regular poison, although not as bad. I'll give Tentacruel a shot and see if it works(it has Toxic Spikes of it's own as well :p ).
@sandshrewz: Glad you like the RMT(and the previous one lol). Lanturn crossed my mind briefly, but I wrote it off due to it adding a 3rd Ground weakness, despite having Dragonite and Uxie. However, the Sub Charge Beam set alleviates that somewhat and it can hit typical Earthquake/Earth Power users hard with it's coverage move of choice in exchange for them breaking the sub. It also adds even more offensive firepower to the team. Ironically, even though Life Orb Heatran is the oddball, it kind of does the same thing already, but I'm definitely going to try Lanturn out. As for lead Dragonite, I will consider it as lead Roserade can be annoying(see above. I put in a lead strategy when editing the RMT). Since I would be moving Dragonite to the lead spot, I am assuming that you mean to keep Uxie, but just not in the lead position. Thunder Wave on Uxie has just worked out better for me than Yawn. I found that Uxie was a lot less effective once something actually went to sleep since the sleeping poke was usually something that wasn't a threat to me anyway. Thunder Wave gives Uxie something to do consistently and I can paralyze fast pokemon such as Scarfers locked into a certain move and I've even caught some Infernape, a big threat, with it. I don't think I will switch to Grass Knot either since Heatran already has HP Grass to one-shot Pert and Quagsire can Toxic it, worst case scenario. Grass Knot from a Uxie will 2HKO Pert with the new spread, but I've done just fine with Psychic to soften it up, even though it does less(I don't rely on it, but the occasional Sp.Def drop helps too). Dragon Dance Dragonite late game is tough if certain members are gone. No matter when it comes in, I'm forced to predict. Lum Berry is the toughest one to deal with since if it's Life Orb, I keep track of it's damage and then bring something in to kill it before my team takes too much damage. Early game it's easy enough to just bait it into Outrage and then bring in Jirachi to attack it. I don't know why people have brought DD DNite in so early on me lately...it's the wrong way to play it IMO -.- . But, I typically deal with it the same way I deal with Gyarados although it is a bit harder since it hits harder: maintain constant pressure and try to bait the Outrage. I even get ballsy once in a while and Taunt in it's face with Heatran(also Fire Blast from LO Heatran does more to Dragonite than you think), so they only get +1 since they think I will switch. @GtM: Noted and updated. I showed several others the RMT and they suggested the exact same thing. I decided to not mess around though and add 20 SpA EV's to guarantee the 2HKO on Machamp. I still get 10 more points in Defense than the previous spread. @RhyssaFireheart: I am considering Tyranitar since that is what most people pair Jirachi and Dragonite with. ScarfTar, although more predictable, seems like the best option as I don't know how Mixed Tyranitar would actually solve this team's weaknesses, now that I think about it(although I can see it running Ice Beam with Shuca Berry to bait DD Dragonite). I've tested Dugtrio in a few games, but I'm finding that I either have to run Choice Band since I don't have any other hazards on this team, or run Life Orb/Expert Belt but I would then need Spikes support. I absolutely hate Choice Band since I can KO Heatran/Tyranitar/Infernape to clear the way for Jirachi, but guess what comes in to set up on me.....Dragonite/Gyarados. Expert Belt is a great bluff, but you need Spikes support. If I was to add that, I'd probably throw in Froslass or Forretress. Thanks for the rates so far, guys.
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Oct 19th, 2011, 11:33:31 PM
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#14 |
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 528
Pallet Town
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So I tested the team and while it seems to be pretty decent for the most part, this team has some sets that I don't use very often because I never found them to be very effective, more specifically your heatran, scizor, and quagsire. Props for using quagsire of course, but I couldn't get him to work well. It might just be me, but quagsire just seems pretty ineffective. Sure it can stop a few annoying pokemon in there tracks and recover off damage, but that doesn't quite cut it for me. Scizor is in the same boat I think, because while the fast attacks are great for starmie and azelf and such, I really miss the power from CB, and scizor isn't very effective these days to begin with, or it seems like it anyways with rotom-a and heatran on almost every team, which is why flygon is usually better for the (fast) scouting role I think. I never liked LO taunt tran because I think heatran is better fit for other roles, and nowadays especially, good players are using those bulky teams with suicune and vaporeon which can wear down heatran pretty quickly. All that said, I don't think this is a bad team at all. I think it's more of a case of me never using this stuff before. :P
So as you can tell I'm a little biased but let me try to make some suggestions. One of the main things that bothered me when playing with this team was the the fact that half of this team is very offensive (lo tran, 4 attack mixnite, and scarf scizor) while the other half brings your momentum to almost a stop. If I were you, I would try to lean either a bit more offensively or a bit more defensively, and if I had to choose between the two, I would definitely say more defensively. I have thought about it a lot, and the following is the best that I could come up with: I would change your current heatran to a specially defensive one with roar/lava plume/sleep talk/rest with a calm nature and leftovers, and then replace your quagsire with a vaporeon with either toxic or roar as the 4th move. These two are so damn awesome together in this metagame, and I think that your team would be much more effective with this change. After that, I think a LO Flygon would be great over dragonite because again, it is works great these days, but also because the electric immunity and ground resist would be very good for your team, especially for ttar because scizor will have to keep switching in to save you. The only other thing I would change at this point is uxie. A Colbur Azelf lead would be similar to uxie, but azelf is not set up bait like uxie is, and it can u-turn starmie for scizor to come in for free and kill it. Colbur Azelf beats machamp easily as well. Azelf/heatran/vaporeon/jirachi/flygon/scizor is a very solid line-up; it's what I used over this team and it works well. However, if you want to keep the team the way it is (I wouldn't blame you), then consider the following smaller changes. I would definitely use like 220 speed on uxie to outpace roserade so you can stealth rock and then u-turn, and also for lucario so you can thunder wave it before it crunches. Maxing the HP is really whats important for uxie. So 252 hp / 220 spd (or 216?) and the rest in def. I would definitely use flamethrower on dragonite because he'll only get a chance or two to attack, and you really don't want him missing. I use flamethrowers on all my mixnites and the difference in power is not bad, in exchange for 100% accuracy. And finally for Heatran, I would look to just change it to something else like using a resist berry and will-o-wisp/hp electric/fire blast/earth power or something like that. LO dies too fast in this bulky metagame in my experience. For such a long rate I wish I could have helped a bit more but hopefully you got something out of this. Once again, this isn't a bad team. I bet you can use this team much better than I can. Good luck!
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