(Ubers) It rains everywhere, even in Ubers

[jessifer]

Introduction:

My first experience with competitive battling was actually in the Ubers tier. I don’t know why, because all the pokemon there were cooler or something? Anyway, team-building skills back then weren’t exactly brilliant. I started with a team of pokemon I liked. After that, each time I got sweept or stalled to death by a pokemon I would use that poke. Thanks to that, I’ve used everything from Shaymin to Lugia and ran balanced, rain, sun, and hyper offensive teams.

After that, I settled down and did some more research on battling. I went to the OU tier and played around a bit. Soon I decided to go back to the Ubers tier. I took my team as I left it, tweaked it a bit, and got this rain team. I’ve won a few and lost a few matches, and I’d really like some more suggestions.

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Team Building

Kyogre was first, since you can't have a rain team without it. Palkia works well with it so I added that too.

Manaphy sounded like an interesting rain sweeper so I decided to test it out.

Darkrai was a lead I used used in many of my old Uber teams so I added that too.

When I played in OU, it seemed that every rain team had Ferrothorn on it. I decided that it would work will in Ubers too.

I wasn't quite sure on the last slot so I picked Arcues-Ghost as a spinblocker/sweeper.


Arceus wasn't quite working for me and I was getting swept by Extremekiller Arceus. I added Giratina to replace Arceus-Ghost. It was a bulkier spinblocker and could also phaze.

Team at a Glance:

Team Members:

Darkrai @ Focus Sash

Trait: Bad Dreams

EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd

Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)

- Nasty Plot

- Dark Pulse

- Focus Blast

- Dark Void

Darkrai is my lead. It’s pretty frail (by Uber standards, that is) so it runs Focus Sash to almost guarantee a Nasty Plot. On the first turn is Dark Void (if the opponent is faster, Focus Sash lets me hit it anyway but Dark Void’s accuracy gets annoying) followed by a Nasty Plot. From then it can perform an early-game sweep and leave the rest to my other teammates.

Kyogre @ Choice Specs

Trait: Drizzle

EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd

Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)

- Water Spout

- Thunder

- Ice Beam

- Surf

Weather inducer for my team. Choice Specs Kyogre is absurdly powerful and 2HKOs almost anything in the metagame that doesn’t resist it and isn’t extremely bulky. Surf is used when Kyogre is at a lower health or if I predict Kyogre’s health will decrease in the next few turns. Ice Beam hits dragons that resist Kyogre’s rain-boosted STAB water attacks and Thunder does the same for waters while taking advantage of it’s boosted accuracy. Being Choice-locked is unfortunate though. I’m considering a change to a different set, mostly because I’m not sure if Specs Kyogre is right for my team. But so far it’s been working well.

Palkia @ Choice Scarf

Trait: Pressure

EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd

Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)

- Aura Sphere

- Spacial Rend

- Thunder

- Surf

Revenge-Killer. Scarf boosts its speed to absurd levels. Spacial Rend and Surf are powerful STAB attacks and Surf’s strength is boosted by the rain. Thunder lets me take down pokes like opposing Kyogre. Aura Sphere is coverage for things like Ferrothorn.

Giratina @ Leftovers Trait: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Dragon Tail


Replaced Arceus-Ghost as my spinblocker, since it is bulkier and helps to check those annoying Extremekiller Arceus. This a specially defensive Giratina. Rest+Sleep Talk can be unreliable but Giratina is usually bulky enough to take the hits. Will-O-Wisp helps shut down physical sweepers *cough*Extremekiller*cough*. Dragon Tail is for phazing.

Manaphy @ Leftovers

Trait: Hydration

EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd

Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)

- Tail Glow

- Rest

- Surf

- Ice Beam

The main sweeper. Tail Glow’s new +3 boost has really helped Manaphy. Rain-boosted STAB Surf and coverage move Ice Beam help Manaphy to successfully sweep the opponents team. (Though Darkrai and Arceus sometimes pull the sweeps instead.) Hydration+Rest+Leftovers makes it bulky as well, being immune to status and having a full recovering move with no drawbacks. (Of course that all depends on the weather being rain.)

Ferrothorn (M) @ Leftovers

Trait: Iron Barbs

EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef

Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)

- Stealth Rock

- Power Whip

- Gyro Ball

- Spikes

Sets up Stealth Rock and Spikes. I’ve run into about a billion rain teams with Ferrrothorn. I’ve also run into Ferrothorn in the Ubers tier about a billion times as well so I figured I’d add it to my team. Ferrothorn’s Attack actually isn’t bad. Power Whip is STAB and Gyro Ball hits almost all pokemon in the Uber tier hard since they’re all pretty fast.

So that’s my team. I’d like comments and suggestions for how to improve. Thanks!

[waterwarrior]

Palkia should use Aura Sphere or Fire Blast > Draco, both hit Ferrothorn (the most common switch-in) hard and give surprisingly good coverage outside of Ferrothorn. Also with Fire Blast, there's nothing better than the sweet joy of you proceeding to take advantage of the opponent's Groudon just when they thought they had your Palkia weakened by the Sun.

[locoghoul]

your team looks very generic to me. Can't give you advice on the team itself since everyone knows ferrogre + scarfpalkia + other sweepers makes a "good" team. Learn from experience I guess

[Bruno Magno]

Originally Posted by Fat locoghoul

your team looks very generic to me

Other than that, i have some advices

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1 - Get a spinner: Choice-locked mons, in Uber, dislike Spikes damage. They hit hardly all your team, Forretress over Ferrothorn should work. Has, if you need, access to Toxic Spikes, wich can give troubles to boosting-poke such as Tyranitar, Kingdra, Arceus, Mewtwo, Thundurus

2 - Better EVs: So many Speed EVs on Palkia are wasted. Use a spread 252 SpAtk / 176 Spe / 80 HP, Timid. The reason is: with Choice Scarf, you can outspeed max Spd Mewtwo and Shaymin-S (fastest Ubers) and even Groudon / Kyogre / Dialga / Zekrom / Reshiram if scarfed and neutral-natures. Also, probably you don't need 252 SpAtk on Specs Kyogre, while some HP EVs may be helpful

3 - Some shitty things: There's something you can change, weird but great, such as:
Scald > Surf on Kyogre
Hidden Power [Rock] > Ice Beam on Kyogre
Hidden Power [Electric] > Ice Beam on Manaphy
Rocky Helmet > Leftovers on Ferrothorn
Earth Power > Aura Sphere on Palkia

[mostwanted]

Hey man, solid team. On Manaphy I'd run Wacan Berry over leftovers, since you've rest. Wacan Berry will make your sweeping better. You should also run Grass Knot on it for Kyogre's and Gastro's. Grass Knot paired with Surf is really useful on Manaphy. Overall great team. Good Luck!

Manaphy @ Wacan Berry
Trait: Hydration
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SAtk / 176 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Surf
- Grass Knot
- Tail Glow
- Rest

[Bruno Magno]

Originally Posted by Fat Mostwanted

Manaphy @ Wacan Berry
Trait: Hydration
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SAtk / 176 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Surf
- Grass Knot
- Tail Glow
- Rest

176 Spd doesn't looks useful, and with Ice Beam it can easily dispose of Rayquaza and others. Wacan Berry in Uber, where Thunder is so abused, isn't so helpful

[jessifer]

bump

[col49]

Originally Posted by Fat Bruno Magno

176 Spd doesn't looks useful, and with Ice Beam it can easily dispose of Rayquaza and others. Wacan Berry in Uber, where Thunder is so abused, isn't so helpful

Mmk, I think I can pretty safely say everything there is wrong. The Spee EVs allows him to outspeed + Natured Base 90's, which are quite common in Ubers. More so, a +3 Surf does about 65.9-77.6% to a Naive Rayquaza, having a 25% chance of an OHKO w/Stealth Rocks. More so, if anything the abuse of Thunder in Ubers even greater warrants the use of Wacan Berry.

As far as the team goes, it looks pretty solid. I would try running a physically defensive Giratina over a specially defensive one, as your team as a whole doesn't really switch in very well to Extremekiller Arceus or Groudon. Moreover, I would suggest opting Surf out for Aqua Tail on Palkia (obviously with a Hasty Nature) in order to better check CM Mewtwo. Lastly, I would suggest running CS Darkrai over the sashed variant, as it does allows him to outspeed Scarfogre, cripple a wall and sweep late-game, which imo is much more valuable than just dyeing off.

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Darkrai @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Bad Dreams
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Dark Pulse
- Dark Void
- Trick
- Focus Blast / Will-o-Wisp

Anywho, that's just my two cents. Gl and I hope I was of some help

[Bruno Magno]

Originally Posted by Fat col49

The Spee EVs allows him to outspeed + Natured Base 90's, which are quite common in Ubers

While 252 Speed EVs means outspeed on Gliscor, Rayquaza and Electivire and a Speed Tie with Celebi, Manaphy and Mew

Originally Posted by Fat col49

More so, a +3 Surf does about 65.9-77.6% to a Naive Rayquaza, having a 25% chance of an OHKO w/Stealth Rocks

You are assuming these things:
1) Manaphy has already used a Tail Glow
2) Rayquaza is Naive-natured and has not a defensive spread
3) Rayquaza switches on Stealth Rocks
4) The battle is under the rain

I guess that's a rare situation: If Rayquaza is Jolly, or Timid, or Adamant or whatever, only 160 SpDef EVs (i'm actually running it) avoids an OHKO, doing only 64% - 74%, that means 89% - 99% allowing Stealth Rock. Then, Ice Beam is much better than Surf while vs Palkia, Zekrom, Dragonite, Lugia. Then, if Kyogre gets a powerful Grass Knot and dies, Groudon can set up Drought, and Surf will suck for the rest of the battle, and you can't do anything against Dragon-types

Originally Posted by Fat col49

More so, if anything the abuse of Thunder in Ubers even greater warrants the use of Wacan Berry.

Every Uber team (except for noobs ones) carry 1-2 Rain abusers, Wacan Berry can only half 1 Thunder, and sometimes (Deoxys-A, for example) it kills you anyway. Life Orb boost all moves, allows you to OHKO a lot of things, and the recoil is cleared by Hydratation-Rest

[col49]

Originally Posted by Fat Bruno Magno

While 252 Speed EVs means outspeed on Gliscor, Rayquaza and Electivire and a Speed Tie with Celebi, Manaphy and Mew

Literally none of those pokes save Rayquaza are relevant. All the aforementioned pokemon are nearly never run in Ubers, whilst if Manaphy was to be run, it nearly always runs a bulky spread. More so, you only need 216 speed EVs to outrun + Nature Max, Speed Rayquaza. The only noteworthy point of running max speed Timid is the speed tie with Palkia, who generally beat you anywho (unless maybe you run Wacan...)

Originally Posted by Fat Bruno Magno

are assuming these things:
1) Manaphy has already used a Tail Glow
2) Rayquaza is Naive-natured and has not a defensive spread
3) Rayquaza switches on Stealth Rocks
4) The battle is under the rain

I calc for a Tail Glow because it would be ridiculous to try to set up on Rayquaza, thus the only relevant calc against would be assuming for him switching in. Also, Defensive Rayquaza, are you high? I'm sorry, but I can't take a comment like that seriously, I hardly feel like I have to move on. Maybe if you argued the use of Hasty, but this...Anywho, I assume for SR as it appears to me to be a great contributor to this team, which seems to have a spike-stacking offensive element to it. Also, why assume for rain? I dunno, maybe it's because this is a rain team. Maybe it's because Kyogre is the most popular pokemon in Ubers. Maybe its because nobody in their right mind would try to pull off a Manaphy sweep in the Sun unless the opponent was completely tapped as is or you were totally backed into a corner. I just don't know why I assumed such a silly thing, you tell me why.

More so, stemming off this information, Thunder is a common move throughout the Ubers metagame, used even on Sun teams, as Rain is just that prominent. So the ability to take a Scarfogre's Thunder, which the opponent planned as their failsafe to prevent such a sweep, has now just dissapeared. Or maybe it was a Palkia, or a Dialga, whatever, but at the end of the day Wacan Berry is perfectly viable, more valuable than Lefties or LO even (imo). The naivety of these statements is really somewhat offsetting to me.

[Koinzell]

If you want a good Manaphy set, use this :

Manaphy @ Wacan Berry
EV : 40 HP - 252 SpA - 216 Spe
Nature : Timid
Moves :
- Tail Glow
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot

No Rest, there is just no space for it. There is no point in surviving Scarf Zekrom Lightning Strike if you don't have Ice Beam to kill it, just like you need Grass Knot to OHKO Scarf Kyogre. Obviously, you need Surf so that you don't look ridiculous against Arceus, Jirachi and friends. Calm Mind Manaphy is better at Hydration-Rest anyway.
40 HP EV are needed so that Scarf Adamant Zekrom never OHKOs with Lightning Strike factoring Stealth Rock. 216 Speed + Timid to outrun base 95 like Rayquaza.

col49, your Rayquaza calculation looks wrong, there is no way Wacan Berry Manaphy can OHKO Rayquaza with Surf, I don't know, maybe you forgot that Air Lock negates the rain boost.

I feel like Ferrothorn should never be used without Leech Seed, it really needs it to make up for his lack of recovery, it also forces switches. The way I see it, you have two options :

1) Replace Spikes for Leech Seed and leave the rest of the team as it is

2) Replace Stealth Rock for Leech Seed and find another Stealth Rock user. Something like :
Specs Kyogre -> Scarf Kyogre
Scarf Palkia -> Support Dialga

Option 2) opens a DD Rayquaza weakness, so the choice is yours. But in general it's a not a good idea to rely on one Pokemon for setting 2 types of hazards, moreso when said Pokemon lacks reliable recovery. Dialga can also support your team with Roar, which can help your team against Substitute users that Giratina can't phaze

Good luck.

[Bruno Magno]

Originally Posted by Fat col49

Literally none of those pokes save Rayquaza are relevant. All the aforementioned pokemon are nearly never run in Ubers
Electivire is quite used as Scarf Sweeper with Ice Punch and Thunder, and Gliscor, flinging Toxic Orbs, switching into Earth Powers, using a few Flight-Acrobatics & Ice Fangs and (more or less) walling Scizor and Heatran is sometimes seen

The only noteworthy point of running max speed Timid is the speed tie with Palkia, who generally beat you anywho (unless maybe you run Wacan...)
Speed Tie on Palkia, Celebi, Mew, sometimes Volcarona as Sun Sweeper, isn't that enough?

Anywho, I assume for SR as it appears to me to be a great contributor to this team, which seems to have a spike-stacking offensive element to it
Who has an Uber Team without a spinner and a counter for Ferrothorn and Forretress? I know 25% is a big damage to Rayquaza, but there isn't always

Also, why assume for rain? I dunno, maybe it's because this is a rain team. Maybe it's because Kyogre is the most popular pokemon in Ubers. Maybe its because nobody in their right mind would try to pull off a Manaphy sweep in the Sun unless the opponent was completely tapped as is or you were totally backed into a corner
Maybe because there's a great usage of Groudon, Abomasnow and Tyranitar, maybe because Surf from 299 SpAtk (or even 747) sucks in the sun

More so, stemming off this information, Thunder is a common move throughout the Ubers metagame, used even on Sun teams, as Rain is just that prominent. So the ability to take a Scarfogre's Thunder, which the opponent planned as their failsafe to prevent such a sweep, has now just dissapeared. Or maybe it was a Palkia, or a Dialga, whatever, but at the end of the day Wacan Berry is perfectly viable, more valuable than Lefties or LO even (imo)
Wacan is viable, but halves only 1 Thunder, while Lefties are for a passive recover and Life Orb (the recoil is cleared by Hydratation-Rest) allows OHKOs even on bulky foes

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As far as i know Air Lock and Cloud Nine don't work on PO, is that true?

[col49]

Alrighty, I'm just going to start using usage stats to explain why this doesn't make since, it just saves me time.

| 57 | Electivire | 200 | 1.896% |
| 44 | Gliscor | 268 | 2.540% | +16

I wouldn't consider about 2 in 100 battles to be of enough relevance to directly address would you? Also, where is he used for this? EVire can't take hits, and Jirachi does that job so much better. Moreover, who runs max speed Gliscor, if at all in Ubers? Worst case situation Manaphy takes 30% from an EQ then OHKOs with Surf.

| 62 | Mew | 175 | 1.659% |
| 69 | Volcarona | 143 | 1.355% |
| 76 | Celebi | 128 | 1.213% |

Again, rather limited in usage. And again, who runs max speed on Celebi or Mew? I've only seen 2 Mews ever in Ubers: Stallbreaker and BP, neither running very much speed. As for Celebi, it's also more or less solely used as a defensive pivot. And yet again I ask, why would Manaphy be attempting a sweep out of the sun?

I assume SR is up on the grounds that the team has a 150/120/120 defense spinblocker with Rest-Talk, it's usually staying there.

1 | Kyogre | 4278 | 40.549% | +0|
3 | Groudon | 3334 | 31.601% | -1|
22 | Tyranitar | 734 | 6.957% | +1|
116 | Abomasnow | 67 | 0.635% |

No matter what way you look at it, Kyogre is the vastly more common poke, with greater usage than all the other 3 combined. Moreover, even if Groudon tries to switch in, a +3 Grass Knot OHKOs literally any Groudon. And if you try to argue that Manaphy switches in on Groudon, then I'm just at a loss for words.

Lastly, congrats on knowing what the item do, now give some application to them. And LO recoil isn't just magically alleviated due to HydraRest, usually the opponent actually wants to stop you from winning.

[epikkyogre78]

Really nice team man, but I would try replacing one of your team members with a Thundurus/Thundurus-T and see how it goes. Thundurus/-T Has really high special attack along with high speed and STAB Hurricane AND STAB Thunder, which have 100% accuracy in rain, and can be further boosted by Nasty Plot, or if you want outpace your opponent, Agility. You don't have to permanently replace it, but try it out for a few battles and see how it goes. ;)

[Donkey]

need arceus-ghost instead of gira-a or you simply lose to sweepers or wallbreakers with dragon moves