Ubers CCAT: Stage 3 - Teammates

[Cherub Agent]

besides, two psycho boosts deal more damage than two psychics, so it's easily the best STAB move he can use.

[Go10]

Psychic isnt even an option; use Psycho Boost or Psyshock.

[CommandurrClowncrete]

Originally Posted by Fat Furai

I am going to take that as you suggest Salamence, because Rayquaza is frequently seen. I am going to accept it, even though you suggested a strategy and not a specific Pokemon.


Guys, when you suggest something, post the exact Pokemon you want to use and its set!

EDIT: Jibaku, I'm going to take it as you also support the Mild Deo-A that was suggested before.


Also, guys save your support to the poll :P

Well, the only Salamence set that will work in Ubers without being outclassed is a DD set, and that too only in combination with Rayquaza.

Name:Dragon Dance
Item:Life Orb
Moveset
~ Dragon Dance
~ Outrage
~ Earthquake
~ Fire Blast / Flamethrower
Nature:Jolly
Evs:252 attack/ 252 speed/ 6 spatk

[Furai]

These are our Pokemon, this is the Poll! Vote for the one you would like to see a team built around.

- Specs Arceus

- Darkrai

- CB Zekrom

- Bulk Up Dialga

- CM Arceus-Electric

- Nasty Plot Thundurus

- Deoxys-A

- SubSD Garchomp

- SubSeed Shaymin-S

- CM Arceus Dark

- Baton Pass Mew

- Stalling Mewtwo



Let's get it!

[waterwarrior]

Since I was the one that first suggested CBKrom, I'm voting for that of course XD

[Snunch]

Sub SD Garchomp

[Blim]

I'll vote CB Zekrom also. I think it's really underrated and it comes as a nasty surprise to the ever so common stall teams who usually expect scarf zekrom. Team building around CB zekrom also seems fun, as we could use other offensive sweepers to "soften" the opponent's team, then bring in zekrom for a late game sweep. This is just one idea though.

[steelguttey]

Choice Specs Arceus

[HART4FLOON]

As much as I love a lot of those suggestions, I think it's time for Deoxys-A to shine.

[lordkira]

Sub SD Garchomp

[jessifer]

NP Thundurus

[Olijolly]

hmmm i am interested in deo-a as well but i'll go with what lordkira suggested:

Sub+SD "HAX" Garchomp

[Poppy]

CM Arceus Dark

let's get it

[Raseri]

CB Zekrom loos like a pretty good set

[Jibaku*]

Deoxys-A

(Although Deoxys-A doesn't exactly seem like something you would usually base a team around since it's pretty self sufficient...sort of. But well...any team with it will do).

EDIT: To clarify, this doesn't mean that Deoxys-A can't be made more effective by team support, and in fact, I'm looking forward to it. However, from an "immediate" perspective, Deoxys-A would be a challenge to build a team around rather than building "just" a team with it. I'm personally satisfied with whatever team incorporates it, but of course as this is a CCAT, it should at least try its best to ensure that Deoxys-A is the centerpiece.

EDIT2: Deoxys-A doesn't -completely- fold up against priority and scarfers (bar Giratina-O SS) because it's faster than them and can leave a decent chunk with its own ES. Rayquaza and Palkia take 40%+ (50%+ if you got max+ attack, but something's telling me we won't do that), Arceus takes ~25% (30%+ if max+. not much but hey), and Scizor is extremely rare.

...

---

Other preferences in the following order: Zekrom, Darkrai, Shaymin-S. Also, on a neat note, CB Bolt Strike from Adamant Zek does 43%-51% 252/0 Ferrothorn.

[Furai]

Originally Posted by Fat Jibaku

Deoxys-A

(Although Deoxys-A doesn't exactly seem like something you would usually base a team around since it's pretty self sufficient...sort of. But well...any team with it will do).

...

---

Other preferences in the following order: Zekrom, Darkrai, Shaymin-S

We are going to start by picking which forgotten Pokemon (and set) we are going to be basing the team around. This does NOT mean the Pokemon has to be the late game sweeper, it means the team will be built around that Pokemon, whatever role it plays.

I also missed that line when I first rejected Specs Arceus. I'll go make sure it's clear in OP now.

[bojangles**]

I am voting for my suggestion of Darkrai and this is why. I will try to analyze all the different options here.

- Specs Arceus - This Pokemon still screams suboptimal to me. It has a very narrow function and I still don't know why you would use this over other Specs choices. I understand it clears the path for Lucario and such, but again this seems too narrow.

- Darkrai - My choice. Nobody uses Darkrai correctly really. People just throw a scarf or Focus Sash on it to lead or they spam Dark Void. The former is not what we're doing and the latter is just plain wrong. I've recently built a Subsitute Darkrai team and Darkrai is unbelievable if you play him correctly.

- CB Zekrom - CB Zekrom is a powerhouse, no doubts about it. The only thing that holds him back in my opinion is his terrible movepool. You will essentially be running two Dragon moves and two Electric moves, meaning that you will need to get over a lot of hurdles to bypass this and his lack of speed. This could prove a bit difficult for our first CCAT.

- Bulk Up Dialga - I love this set. This is probably my second choice after Darkrai, but I find that BU Dialga is usually something to fit onto the team later. No doubt though, this is a scary mon if you can't hit it hard and fast though. The only issue I have is that, with Dragon Tail abound, there is a lot more phazing now which isn't kind to Dialga since it will be using Sleep Talk to randomly choose its attack often.

- CM Arceus-Electric - CM Arceus is a good set and all, and definitely a "Forgotten Wonder," but for our first CCAT I would shy away from choosing an Arceus form. Arceus is such a "fixer" Pokemon that I don't think we should have it choose its position so soon since it could otherwise patch up a hole in our team.

- Nasty Plot Thundurus - Theorymon tells me this guy is pretty good but I'm not sold yet to be honest. With Earthquake / Spikes immunity and Electric STAB are cool, I think Darkrai is just a more solid choice. Darkrai can 2HKO Kyogre, the main target for Thundurus' Electric moves, with a boosted Dark Pulse anyway, and that extra speed really makes a difference in outspeeding various Arceus forms. Plus Darkrai has that very sexy fast sleep.

- Deoxys-A - Really not a fan of Deoxys-A. While it's very powerful and all, it completely folds to any sort of priority, which is quite common in this meta between ExtremeSpeeds from Arceus and Rayquaza, Shadow Sneak from Giratina-O, or the rarer Bullet Punch from Scizor.

- SubSD Garchomp - This set is cool but it has major wall problems. Earthquake and Outrage are powerful moves but you are completely walled by Skarmory and Ferrothorn probably doesn't take too much, although to be honest I have not run a calc. I will run one and then see how it goes. EDIT: 44.03 - 51.98% damage to Ferrothorn from +2 Garchomp. This will be very close. Hopefully you have some entry hazards down or a Sub up, because you will be taking a lot of damage from Iron Barbs + Leech Seed.

- SubSeed Shaymin-S - This set makes me feel dirty but admittedly it is very effective. I've used it to great effect on my QuickStall team and I don't have many complaints other than that annoying Stealth Rock weakness. I think the choice between this and Darkrai will come down to whether we want an offensive or more stallish team.

- CM Arceus Dark - Refresh and bulk are nice but I'd much rather take Dark Void, Nasty Plot, and high offensive stats with Darkrai.

- Baton Pass Mew - Baton Pass Mew was great, but now there's SmashPassing. While Mew is bulkier than Gorebyss, the ability to get all your boosts in one turn is very important now with the advent of Dragon Tail, the untauntable phazer.

- Stalling Mewtwo - Another great set. Again, this will come down to whether we want a Stalling or Offensive team.

[Fiction.]

I think my vote will go to Choice Band Zekrom.

[Jibaku*]

Poll Up (In National Dex order).

[Furai]

Guys, thanks to Jibaku, we now have an actual poll up! Go submit your votes there. I am sorry that I did not think of this through, but better late than never eh?

[Poppy]

I would just like to add my comments to bojangles post.

Originally Posted by Fat bojangles

I am voting for my suggestion of Darkrai and this is why. I will try to analyze all the different options here.

- Specs Arceus - This Pokemon still screams suboptimal to me. It has a very narrow function and I still don't know why you would use this over other Specs choices. I understand it clears the path for Lucario and such, but again this seems too narrow.

Agreed, also having a stab with a common immunity makes it easy to take advantage of.

- Darkrai - My choice. Nobody uses Darkrai correctly really. People just throw a scarf or Focus Sash on it to lead or they spam Dark Void. The former is not what we're doing and the latter is just plain wrong. I've recently built a Subsitute Darkrai team and Darkrai is unbelievable if you play him correctly.

I have seen one of bojangles' teams and when brought out midgame this thing can be very devastating. I'm not too sold on monodark though, maybe forgo NP for focus blast. One of my top choices, but not top.

- CB Zekrom - CB Zekrom is a powerhouse, no doubts about it. The only thing that holds him back in my opinion is his terrible movepool. You will essentially be running two Dragon moves and two Electric moves, meaning that you will need to get over a lot of hurdles to bypass this and his lack of speed. This could prove a bit difficult for our first CCAT.

A very powerful 'mon, but more of a wallbreaker than something to focus your team around. You bring it in, volt switch the first few times on Ferro or outrage if they have Groudon for the 2hko and then deal massive damage, but there is no way it will sweep an entire team.

- Bulk Up Dialga - I love this set. This is probably my second choice after Darkrai, but I find that BU Dialga is usually something to fit onto the team later. No doubt though, this is a scary mon if you can't hit it hard and fast though. The only issue I have is that, with Dragon Tail abound, there is a lot more phazing now which isn't kind to Dialga since it will be using Sleep Talk to randomly choose its attack often.

A good set, I have heard that substitute + earthquake can be used in lieu of resttalk for a more offensively inclined option, with the added advantage of messing up weak dragon tail users. It is something I would find difficult to base a team around, however, as a situation rarely presents itself where it can sweep. I see this set used a lot more as a pivot to absorb status, and very occasionally sweep.

- CM Arceus-Electric - CM Arceus is a good set and all, and definitely a "Forgotten Wonder," but for our first CCAT I would shy away from choosing an Arceus form. Arceus is such a "fixer" Pokemon that I don't think we should have it choose its position so soon since it could otherwise patch up a hole in our team.

- Nasty Plot Thundurus - Theorymon tells me this guy is pretty good but I'm not sold yet to be honest. With Earthquake / Spikes immunity and Electric STAB are cool, I think Darkrai is just a more solid choice. Darkrai can 2HKO Kyogre, the main target for Thundurus' Electric moves, with a boosted Dark Pulse anyway, and that extra speed really makes a difference in outspeeding various Arceus forms. Plus Darkrai has that very sexy fast sleep.

Most of what I've heard is from T-Mon as well, a good supporter / last ditch stop with priority T-wave, and a powerful attacker under rain support all in one. Thunderus' frailty is its only vice and I think that it will have a much harder time sweeping because of that. A good 'mon to have, but not one to build a team around.


- Deoxys-A - Really not a fan of Deoxys-A. While it's very powerful and all, it completely folds to any sort of priority, which is quite common in this meta between ExtremeSpeeds from Arceus and Rayquaza, Shadow Sneak from Giratina-O, or the rarer Bullet Punch from Scizor.

Agreed. I like it as a lead though.

- SubSD Garchomp - This set is cool but it has major wall problems. Earthquake and Outrage are powerful moves but you are completely walled by Skarmory and Ferrothorn probably doesn't take too much, although to be honest I have not run a calc. I will run one and then see how it goes. EDIT: 44.03 - 51.98% damage to Ferrothorn from +2 Garchomp. This will be very close. Hopefully you have some entry hazards down or a Sub up, because you will be taking a lot of damage from Iron Barbs + Leech Seed.

Actually this set has a lot more value than bojangles gives it imo, with burn support Ferro will never break your subs, in addition EQ does not trigger iron barbs. The biggest obstacles are therefore roar groudon, probably the most common; skarmory, less common, but still pretty much a full stop, especially in rain (if you choose to have fire blast); lugia, timid lugia with reflect is probably the worst, slower variants can be outsped and will take a large beating, especially subtoxic versions without reflect. It is a good 'mon and near the top for my choices as well.

- SubSeed Shaymin-S - This set makes me feel dirty but admittedly it is very effective. I've used it to great effect on my QuickStall team and I don't have many complaints other than that annoying Stealth Rock weakness. I think the choice between this and Darkrai will come down to whether we want an offensive or more stallish team.

A filthy 'mon, no matter what set you run on it, be it EB lure, subseed, choice, it will never fail to make you feel dirty and your opponent dirtier if you play it right. However, it is more of a major annoyance than a sweeper, and a lot of the time it will get one kill then be forced out; a good 'mon nonetheless.

- CM Arceus Dark - Refresh and bulk are nice but I'd much rather take Dark Void, Nasty Plot, and high offensive stats with Darkrai.

I have yet to see a good ubers team showcasing CM Arceus Dark, I have heard a lot about it and the way it completely crushes stall and defensive balance sounds amazing. A large part of the reason I picked this 'mon is because I am curious to see its potential.

- Baton Pass Mew - Baton Pass Mew was great, but now there's SmashPassing. While Mew is bulkier than Gorebyss, the ability to get all your boosts in one turn is very important now with the advent of Dragon Tail, the untauntable phazer.

Agreed

- Stalling Mewtwo - Another great set. Again, this will come down to whether we want a Stalling or Offensive team.

Another dirty, dirty set, I would pick it if I wasn't already so familiar with it. A good 'mon as well.

[ssbbm]

Deoxys-A

[prem]

darkrai
i honestly love darkrai for being my favorite 4th gen legend. it honestly should be used so much more (stupid mewtwo). anyway i personally dont like the sub set that much from what ive seen. it lets it beat mewtwo if it has a sub up, but its subs are ridiculously easy to break, and monodark coverage is really not enough with stuff like ferro on every other team

[mostwanted]

Deoxys-A is a complete monster and shits on everything.

[zzzzzzzzzzz]

Voted for Darkrai, although it's mostly between him and Deo-A for me. On the other hand it'll be interesting how we will form a team around Deoxys-A since it's synergy with most other pokes is not something to be proud of.