CAP 2 - Part 2 - Typing Poll 1

Rising_Dusk · Nov 16th, 2011, 5:09:26 PM

Now we move onto the part where we vote for the typing for CAP 2. In this poll, we will determine which type combos move forward to the bold vote poll. The result of this poll series will be a dual typing for CAP 2 that we will follow all the way 'til the cows come home.

ecall that this poll operates on IRV voting, the details of which are outlined here. This means that you can upvote your favorite typing and downvote your least favorite. Be aware that order does matter in your votes! The first line is your favorite, the last line is your least favorite. Make sure you vote properly. Make sure that you bold your votes and nothing else! A typical vote might look like the following:

Quote:

Most Preferred
Second Most Preferred
Least Preferred

Any comments that the voter has would go below the votes in non-bold text. Bold text is used to determine what the user's votes are, so none of the supplementary text should be in bold.

Please post only your votes in this thread. Do not respond to other posts, or your posts will be moderated and you warned. If you feel compelled to say something in your own vote, you may still do so, but don't try to incite a discussion. Keep discussion to #cap.

This poll will be open for 24 hours.

When voting, use only the typing! The list of possible votes include:

Grass / Ghost
Poison / Dragon
Electric / Poison
Psychic

You may be wondering why I picked the slate that I did, and here's where I will explain. All of these were suggested by other users in the process of the typing thread, and all were discussed. I explained why I liked Grass / Ghost and Poison / Dragon in this post really well. I ended up choosing Electric / Poison because I genuinely feel that the Electric-type is intriguing for its Sketch options physically in Bolt Strike and Sketch options for coverage moves. The Poison typing also benefits it by exacerbating its Ground vulnerability and giving it a Fighting resistance, keeping the balance of the offensive type with the defensive type. Psychic may seem outlandish on the slate, but there are incredibly awesome sketch options for a Psychic-type, most notably Psystrike, and it enables us to experiment in the movepool stage in ways that the others don't (such as giving CAP 2 natural Calm Mind it can use with Sketched Psystrike, or maybe Sketched Quiver dance and Psychic). Psychic when combined with most other types doesn't really still use its Psychic STAB, and thus loses its value to the concept. That's why mono-Psychic is an interesting choice, and why I chose it for the slate.

I know people will be sad that I slated nothing with the Water-type in it, and people might also be sad that I didn't slate Normal / Ghost. I made my stance on Water typing crystal clear in the aforelinked post above. Meanwhile, there was a lot of discussion back and forth about Normal / Ghost, and I and the ATL both agree that Normal / Ghost isn't practical for the CAP's concept of Sketching interesting coverage moves or offensive boosting moves. Furthermore, it lacks practical resistances for actually being useful at all in OU. For those reasons, neither of these things were slated. I hope that you all who supported them can trust my judgment and will continue to argue as fiercely as you have for things you want in future stages! Who knows what I can be convinced of?

Below is CAP 2 so far:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Korski

Concept: Sketch Artist

Description: A Pokemon that learns Sketch, once, and everything that goes along with that.

Justification:

In terms of uniqueness, I think that few existing Pokemon can match DPP Smeargle, an otherwise laughably worthless Pokemon trolling OU with access to every trick in the book (or at least 4 of them) but also affecting the metagame greatly by becoming a top threat in the lead metagame. This Pokemon will borrow some of that uniqueness by learning the move Sketch and thus having access to ONE surprise/strategic/gutshot bonus move to supplement its pre-existing movepool. Being otherwise competently built (read: usable stats), this Poke could be a top threat or specialist for reasons we can't even predict yet.

Questions To Be Answered:

How will a Poke that has access to any one move out of all the moves in the game affect common battling tactics, namely prediction, scouting, and switching?
Which Sketch moves will become most common on this Poke's best sets? Does Sketchmon's success rely on hiding that secret Sketch move until just the right moment or can it succeed with predictably powerful moves like Spore, Spikes, Hurricane, Shell Smash, etc.?
Does this unique and powerful access to moves need to be counterbalanced elsewhere in the Pokemon's design? If so, then to what degree?
What kind of impact can Sketchmon have on teambuilding in terms of being able to patch holes with common utility moves like Rapid Spin or Toxic Spikes?

Explanation: The key here is that we have a lot of freedom to construct a unique Pokemon while staying within the confines of the concept. Typing, stats, abilities, and even most of the movepool are completely fair game so long as the Poke learns Sketch only once along the way and that we keep that in mind during previous steps. Now, this doesn't mean the CAP process will be directionless; Rising Dusk is pretty well organized and good at keeping discussions focused, and the concept itself has firm grounding in Smeargle's precedent. What's really being studied with this concept is movepool diversity and effectiveness, so it should have the most effect on the movepool process, where movepool creators will have to carefully balance their Sketchmon's actual movepool with the possibility of adding any one other move to the list. In terms of the metagame, there is no doubt in my mind that throwing a wildcard like this into the mix will strongly affect the metagame.

Focus: Bulky Offense

May the best typing win!

tl;dr: Quack! (Vote!)

CTNC · Nov 16th, 2011, 5:10:50 PM

Poison/Dragon
Electric/Poison

reachzero · Nov 16th, 2011, 5:12:18 PM

Grass/Ghost
Poison/Dragon
Psychic
Electric/Poison

bugmaniacbob · Nov 16th, 2011, 5:12:46 PM

Psychic
Electric / Poison
Grass / Ghost
Poison / Dragon

I must say, though, I'm a little puzzled as to how mono-Psychic ended up on the poll when I don't think anyone supported it. Still, I think all these poll options are the best that we came up with in that thread.

**capefeather** · Nov 16th, 2011, 5:12:52 PM

Poison / Dragon
Grass / Ghost
Electric / Poison
Psychic

Yeah, no funny business in this post... yet. Poison / Dragon is at the top mainly because I would like CAP 2 to be neutral to ExtremeSpeed and Bullet Punch. Grass / Ghost and Electric / Poison are still great, though, and they were very well-argued in the thread. Psychic intrigues me greatly, but them's the breaks.

Rediamond · Nov 16th, 2011, 5:12:53 PM

Poison/Dragon
Electric/Poison
Grass/Ghost

**jas61292** · Nov 16th, 2011, 5:13:06 PM

Electric/Poison
Poison/Dragon
Psychic
Grass/Ghost

Solstice · Nov 16th, 2011, 5:13:33 PM

Poison/Dragon
Grass/Ghost

***Birkal**** · Nov 16th, 2011, 5:13:48 PM

Poison / Dragon
Grass / Ghost
Psychic

Poison / Dragon will lead to discussion of which moves most adequately compliment a Dragon-type in BW OU. It's a topic we could really learn a lot about; it's why Dragonite has to seriously consider Earthquake or why Salamence often ends up mixed. It's an entirely relevant discussion point that would end up giving CAP2 a bit more focus.

DTC · Nov 16th, 2011, 5:14:49 PM

Grass / Ghost
Psychic
Electric / Poison
Poison / Dragon

**Deck Knight** · Nov 16th, 2011, 5:15:32 PM

Poison / Dragon
Electric / Poison

***Jibaku**** · Nov 16th, 2011, 5:16:26 PM

Grass / Ghost
Poison / Dragon
Electric / Poison
Psychic

Gothic Togekiss · Nov 16th, 2011, 5:17:08 PM

Poison / Dragon
Grass / Ghost
Electric / Poison

Libelldra · Nov 16th, 2011, 5:20:58 PM

Electric/Poison
Grass/Ghost
Poison/Dragon
The main reason I put Poison/Electric at the top was its 4x weakness to ground combined with the fighting resistance and potential for boltbeam. Grass/Ghost and Poison/Dragon were both my second choice, but I had to choose one. I decided to put Grass/Ghost second due to the interesting resistances and offenses that don't give it too much neutral coverage for a pokemon that can potentially learn any move.

deimos · Nov 16th, 2011, 5:21:03 PM

Grass / Ghost
Electric / Poison
Psychic

Weebos · Nov 16th, 2011, 5:21:14 PM

Poison/Dragon
Electric/Poison
Grass/Ghost

Flarephoenix332 · Nov 16th, 2011, 5:21:53 PM

Poison / Dragon
Grass / Ghost

Rising_Dusk · Nov 16th, 2011, 5:24:03 PM

Grass / Ghost
Psychic
Electric / Poison
Poison / Dragon

Straw Hat · Nov 16th, 2011, 5:24:13 PM

Poison/Dragon
Electric/Poison
Grass/Ghost
Psychic

srk1214 · Nov 16th, 2011, 5:24:38 PM

Electric/Poison
Grass/Ghost

I. LOVE. THIS. TYPING.
Seriously. Without Levitate it is a massive lure. And should Levitate be an option, CAP2's physical Type Defense rivals even Skarmory's.

Electric is a good STAB, and combined with Poison, makes CAP2 a very reliable switch-in to Ferrothorn (especially since it might either Rapid Spin or Sacred Fire.)

Also, I think CAP2 resisting both of its own STABs is a very nice side benefit. It encourages players to think of more supportive roles, since every team will be using CAP2 in playtesting, and a supportive one will come out on top over an offensive one as long as the STABs do little.

My second choice by far is Grass/Ghost. I used to be on the Normal/Ghost team, but I of course see the benefits of additional resistances.

I'm not persuaded by Poison/Dragon for reasons I discussed in the previous thread. Mono-Psychic seems interesting from a movepool perspective, but I do fear we may be creating an inferior Reuniclus, who already functions as a FANTASTIC mono-Psychic in OU.

AlphaJolt · Nov 16th, 2011, 5:24:57 PM

Grass / Ghost
Poison / Dragon
Electric / Poison

Dummy007 · Nov 16th, 2011, 5:25:47 PM

Grass / Ghost
Electric / Poison
Poison / Dragon

**Tobes** · Nov 16th, 2011, 5:26:04 PM

Grass / Ghost
Electric / Poison
Poison / Dragon
Psychic

hoblaph · Nov 16th, 2011, 5:27:03 PM

Electric/Poison
Grass/Ghost
Poison/Dragon
Psychic

tea_and_blues · Nov 16th, 2011, 5:27:39 PM

Electric / Poison
Grass / Ghost
Psychic
Poison / Dragon

Nov 16th, 2011, 5:10:50 PM	#2
CTNC Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 194	Poison/Dragon Electric/Poison Last edited by Rising_Dusk; Nov 16th, 2011 at 5:12:45 PM. Reason: fixed vote spelling

Nov 16th, 2011, 5:12:46 PM	#4
bugmaniacbob Fare thee well. Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,038 Floccinaucinihilipilification	Psychic Electric / Poison Grass / Ghost Poison / Dragon I must say, though, I'm a little puzzled as to how mono-Psychic ended up on the poll when I don't think anyone supported it. Still, I think all these poll options are the best that we came up with in that thread. __________________ Art / C&C / The Smog / Longest Ever Analysis MkI / Longest Ever Analysis MkII / Warstories / Stupid Poem / CAP 4: Aurumoth

Nov 16th, 2011, 5:12:52 PM	#5
capefeather hey, even pirates need attorneys Moderator Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,611 especially internet pirates	Poison / Dragon Grass / Ghost Electric / Poison Psychic Yeah, no funny business in this post... yet. Poison / Dragon is at the top mainly because I would like CAP 2 to be neutral to ExtremeSpeed and Bullet Punch. Grass / Ghost and Electric / Poison are still great, though, and they were very well-argued in the thread. Psychic intrigues me greatly, but them's the breaks. __________________ If we cannot take joy in things that are merely real, our lives will always be empty. <+joshe> im a registered sex offender for up to calc 3 <+Reflect_Suicune> i was thining of fucking jellicent for some reason <DetroitLolcat> I AM AROUSED BY BIMETALLIC CURRENCY!

Nov 16th, 2011, 5:12:53 PM	#6
Rediamond Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 2,467	Poison/Dragon Electric/Poison Grass/Ghost __________________ Back. Back in full May 15th. Please don't issue new gym challenges until that point. Last edited by Rediamond; Nov 16th, 2011 at 5:15:20 PM. Reason: Order of primary typing

Nov 16th, 2011, 5:13:06 PM	#7
jas61292 likes his numbers Moderator Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,243 Strong as a Corsola	Electric/Poison Poison/Dragon Psychic Grass/Ghost __________________ <jas61292> I record everything <nyttyn> prove it. <nyttyn> WHAT WAS THE VERY FIRST THING I EVER SAID IN THIS CHANNEL. <jas61292> [06/02/12 \| 12:43] <NyttyN> Huh what deo you know shelll smash did get banned <nyttyn> what. <nyttyn> well congratulations jas your stalker nexus has reached an all time high.

Nov 16th, 2011, 5:13:33 PM	#8
Solstice Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 1,221 In a cold pizza induced euphoria	Poison/Dragon Grass/Ghost

Nov 16th, 2011, 5:13:48 PM	#9
*Birkal We have the technology. Super Moderator** Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 3,007 The Mentor	Poison / Dragon Grass / Ghost Psychic Poison / Dragon will lead to discussion of which moves most adequately compliment a Dragon-type in BW OU. It's a topic we could really learn a lot about; it's why Dragonite has to seriously consider Earthquake or why Salamence often ends up mixed. It's an entirely relevant discussion point that would end up giving CAP2 a bit more focus. Last edited by Birkal; Nov 16th, 2011 at 6:24:26 PM.

Nov 16th, 2011, 5:14:49 PM	#10
DTC Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 1,069 Mentor	Grass / Ghost Psychic Electric / Poison Poison / Dragon __________________ Pokemon Showdown! #pokemon

Nov 16th, 2011, 5:15:32 PM	#11
Deck Knight Jigen Makkoto Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 6,843 Massachusetts	Poison / Dragon Electric / Poison __________________ [17:53] <&Deck_Knight> If I Cite and Prune CiteandPrune's post, what does that make me? [17:54] <Birkal> a citeandprune cite and prunner [17:54] <%DHR> O_o lol [17:54] <+Mos_Quitoxe> Cite and Prune doesn't do enough of either [17:55] <+Mos_Quitoxe> can we make him change it or force him to pay damages [17:55] <&Deck_Knight> It would be a lot easier for him to Cite and Prune if we made him a mod. [17:56] <&Deck_Knight> I delegate this task to Birkal. [17:57] <Birkal> >:\|

Nov 16th, 2011, 5:16:26 PM	#12
*Jibaku [02:06] <DixieNormous> Rodan x pookar: Just Do It Super Moderator** Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 5,910 Foursquare, a sprained ankle, bottlecap ninjas, and wallball	Grass / Ghost Poison / Dragon Electric / Poison Psychic __________________

Nov 16th, 2011, 5:17:08 PM	#13
Gothic Togekiss Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 4,484 PKMN Trainer Hijiri at your services	Poison / Dragon Grass / Ghost Electric / Poison __________________ Diamond: Rinneth (3222 2619 1334) Platinum: Remilia (5328 9611 0881) *White: Hijiri (3138 5947 0732) I can clone in B&W now. PM/VM if you need any. Everything I ever RNG'd is here What you buying stranger?* Last edited by Gothic Togekiss; Nov 16th, 2011 at 5:32:52 PM.

Nov 16th, 2011, 5:20:58 PM	#14
Libelldra Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 60 Wisconsin	Electric/Poison Grass/Ghost Poison/Dragon The main reason I put Poison/Electric at the top was its 4x weakness to ground combined with the fighting resistance and potential for boltbeam. Grass/Ghost and Poison/Dragon were both my second choice, but I had to choose one. I decided to put Grass/Ghost second due to the interesting resistances and offenses that don't give it too much neutral coverage for a pokemon that can potentially learn any move. __________________ if you argue with trolls, they've already won Last edited by Rising_Dusk; Nov 16th, 2011 at 5:36:03 PM. Reason: vote typo

Nov 16th, 2011, 5:21:03 PM	#15
deimos Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 129 Finland	Grass / Ghost Electric / Poison Psychic

Nov 16th, 2011, 5:21:14 PM	#16
Weebos Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 127 Ankh-Morpork	Poison/Dragon Electric/Poison Grass/Ghost

Nov 16th, 2011, 5:21:53 PM	#17
Flarephoenix332 Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 130	Poison / Dragon Grass / Ghost

Nov 16th, 2011, 5:24:03 PM	#18
Rising_Dusk Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 4,742	Grass / Ghost Psychic Electric / Poison Poison / Dragon

Nov 16th, 2011, 5:24:13 PM	#19
Straw Hat Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 147 Somewhere	Poison/Dragon Electric/Poison Grass/Ghost Psychic

Nov 16th, 2011, 5:24:38 PM	#20
srk1214 Supreme Master of Trivia Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 807	Electric/Poison Grass/Ghost I. LOVE. THIS. TYPING. Seriously. Without Levitate it is a massive lure. And should Levitate be an option, CAP2's physical Type Defense rivals even Skarmory's. Electric is a good STAB, and combined with Poison, makes CAP2 a very reliable switch-in to Ferrothorn (especially since it might either Rapid Spin or Sacred Fire.) Also, I think CAP2 resisting both of its own STABs is a very nice side benefit. It encourages players to think of more supportive roles, since every team will be using CAP2 in playtesting, and a supportive one will come out on top over an offensive one as long as the STABs do little. My second choice by far is Grass/Ghost. I used to be on the Normal/Ghost team, but I of course see the benefits of additional resistances. I'm not persuaded by Poison/Dragon for reasons I discussed in the previous thread. Mono-Psychic seems interesting from a movepool perspective, but I do fear we may be creating an inferior Reuniclus, who already functions as a FANTASTIC mono-Psychic in OU.

Nov 16th, 2011, 5:24:57 PM	#21
AlphaJolt Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,674 Minnesota	Grass / Ghost Poison / Dragon Electric / Poison __________________ ASB Profile [19:35:22] <@Charmander> alphajolt just has the worst luck [19:35:22] <@Charmander> like [19:35:35] <@Charmander> his luck is worse than prem's lc abilities [03:49:23]<toshimelonhead> jolteon's shiny looks like gf pissed on the normal one

Nov 16th, 2011, 5:25:47 PM	#22
Dummy007 Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 2,222 It's Hammer Time!	Grass / Ghost Electric / Poison Poison / Dragon __________________ ASB Team ...and as soon as I get back, my computer dies. I will have really limited computer access for an undefined period of time, so please bear with me. <18:06> *** SoS is now known as AwesomeSoS <21:49> Dummy007: TL, read the channel title <21:49 TalkingLion: im a talking lion not a reading lion i cant

Nov 16th, 2011, 5:26:04 PM	#23
Tobes Woo-hoo, woo-hoo-hoo, woo-hoo-hoo-woo-hoo-hoo-hoo! Moderator Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,253 GONER	Grass / Ghost Electric / Poison Poison / Dragon Psychic __________________

Nov 16th, 2011, 5:27:03 PM	#24
hoblaph Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 215 Canada	Electric/Poison Grass/Ghost Poison/Dragon Psychic __________________ ASB Profile \| "Nous faisons le mal, mais nous le faisons bien." "My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world." Last edited by reachzero; Nov 16th, 2011 at 11:13:37 PM.

Nov 16th, 2011, 5:27:39 PM	#25
tea_and_blues Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 998 New Zealand	Electric / Poison Grass / Ghost Psychic Poison / Dragon __________________ '†' Shwoop. '†'