np: NU Stage 0 - For What It's Worth - Page 2

**kd24** · Dec 11th, 2011, 12:42:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Heysup

I do like using Exeggutor but I mean, I gotta use Roselia. I've said this before, but Max Spe / SpA with Spikes / Sludge Bomb / Leaf Storm / Synthesis is incredible. You wall every water and grass type (except Psychic from Exeggutor...) and wreak havoc with base 100 SpA Leaf Storms and Sludge Bombs. You can set up Spikes on shit that walls you as you heal off their damage since you take it so well with Eviolite. Roselia + Regirock makes a great pair. Similarly, Exeggutor + Regirock works well. It's just whether you prefer hitting harder vs being faster and having Spikes.

Swellow is the heart and soul of my current NU team though, but unfortunately I've been pushin for its use in RU and even UU. I <3 Swellow in any metagame.

spikes + leaf storm roselia isnt possible/legal

ChaoticaMortis · Dec 11th, 2011, 1:27:25 PM

Anyone notice Absol getting Hone Claws + Stone Edge/Psycho Cut/Night Slash along with Super Luck? Unboosted it already punches holes into things, but with Hone Claws it becomes even more powerful, and Stone Edge's accuracy actually gets fixed.

steviestar · Dec 11th, 2011, 1:36:39 PM

Absol gets swords dance. I'd rather gamble with stone edge's shaky accuracy than give up a free +1 attack compared to hone claws. Stone edge really isn't that great on Absol anyway, I'd always rather use superpower as a coverage move.

ChaoticaMortis · Dec 11th, 2011, 1:50:08 PM

But Superpower lowers your stats and doesn't have the double crit chance that Stone Edge gets with Super Luck. I'd take a +1 atk Stone Edge crit over a +2 Superpower making my Atk lower.

DTC · Dec 11th, 2011, 1:58:40 PM

Super Luck only gives you an extra 6.25% chance of critting, which isn't that much. Superpower is better then Stone Edge because it allows Absol to hit Steel types super effectively rather then not very effectively. With just Sucker Punch+Superpower you get perfect neutral effective coverage other then Croagunk in NU. The Superpower attack lower may be annoying, but it's a sacrifice you have to make.

col49 · Dec 11th, 2011, 2:14:04 PM

Personally, I gotta say that I love Magneton. I dunno what I'm gonna do when it moves up. It's bulk it just awesome with Eviolite, and it totally shuts down Klinklang without any effort whatsoever. Also, I don't know why, but everyone seems to assume that I'm running Hp Fire or something, because they always switch in Quaggy :/ I don't seem why you would, because TBolt hits basically all the Steels in the tier harder anyway, but whatever, free OHKO w/Hp Grass for me :3

ChaoticaMortis · Dec 11th, 2011, 2:14:33 PM

What steel types in NU right now are you really going to be countering with Absol that you couldn't already be countering with Magneton?
Besides, when the tiers shift in January it's likely that we won't have Klinklang or Magneton in NU, the only steels that anyone even uses.
I would suppose that the better coverage in general is a good thing, but if you're weakening yourself using that extra coverage then you're either going to die faster or be forced to switch out. Switching isn't a problem if you're just revenging, but if you genuinely want to kill a few things before having to switch out or die, Hone Claws-boosted Stone Edge can really fuck a few things up.

DTC · Dec 11th, 2011, 2:48:37 PM

Tier changes in January are irrelevant to this discussion, we are talking about Superpower Absol now.

Also, I don't understand why you hate Superpower so much because of the attack drop. Hone Claws increases by +1, Swords Dance increases by +2 and then after Superpower it's +1... A 100% accurcey Stone Edge does not really warrant Hone Claws being used when you could use Swords Dance which makes you do more damage.

Omicron · Dec 11th, 2011, 2:59:06 PM

Yea, when something has access to both Hone Claws and Swords Dance, Swords Dance is almost always better. Oh and I have yet to try out Absol in the BW meta... definitely will when i get a chance, SD Sucker Punch is just too good to pass up

And what are people's opinions on Megahorn vs. Superpower? I personally think Superpower is better since it hits Steel-types, and Megahorn has slightly redundant coverage with Absol's STAB...

King Serperior · Dec 11th, 2011, 6:33:42 PM

I use Scarfed Wailord. Mini-Kyogre is pretty good. What are the opinions of you guys?

Ice-eyes · Dec 11th, 2011, 6:40:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat King Serperior

I use Scarfed Wailord. Mini-Kyogre is pretty good. What are the opinions of you guys?

Too slow, bad coverage, doesn't hit hard enough.

Alice · Dec 11th, 2011, 7:05:48 PM

For me, eviolite gudurr is one of the best pokemon in the tier; it also stops klingklang in its tracks and can setup/heal back with drain punch and bulk up in its face. And it's got one of the few priority worth in the tier, helping against otherwise fast and problematic fragile sweepers such as braviary, swellow, and even scarf rotom F :3

King Serperior · Dec 11th, 2011, 7:07:02 PM

@ Ice-Eyes: well, I don't ladder, so I try everything until I find something good.

Everyone has their opinions. I am just looking for a good Water-typed Revenge-killer. Any suggestions?

The Reptile · Dec 11th, 2011, 7:40:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Omicron

Yea, when something has access to both Hone Claws and Swords Dance, Swords Dance is almost always better. Oh and I have yet to try out Absol in the BW meta... definitely will when i get a chance, SD Sucker Punch is just too good to pass up

And what are people's opinions on Megahorn vs. Superpower? I personally think Superpower is better since it hits Steel-types, and Megahorn has slightly redundant coverage with Absol's STAB...

Superpower. Sucker Punch/Night Slash + Superpower gives Absol perfect coverage.

Axa · Dec 11th, 2011, 8:10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat King Serperior

@ Ice-Eyes: well, I don't ladder, so I try everything until I find something good.

Everyone has their opinions. I am just looking for a good Water-typed Revenge-killer. Any suggestions?

Floatzel. Awesomely fast, has Aqua Jet and Taunt if you need it.

WHYYY doesn't it get U-Turn is beyond me.

King Serperior · Dec 11th, 2011, 9:07:16 PM

^thanks, I'll try him out. Should I band him or LO? I am also going to do some more tests with Basculin. From what I have noticed, CB+STAB+Adaptability=Pain. Scarf gives him enough speed to abuse a STAB Adaptability Waterfall.

It has Crunch to use on Exeggecutor (if you have no choice), Jynx, and Slowking. I don't see why this awesome Pokemon isn't seen more :(

Axa · Dec 11th, 2011, 9:16:38 PM

Basculin is slower than Swellow and defenses are pretty weak, that's the main reason really.

And I'd say Band for Switcheroo sheenanigans, but LO gives him a lot more flexibility.

Heysup · Dec 11th, 2011, 9:55:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat kd24

spikes + leaf storm roselia isnt possible/legal

Giga Drain*

moonbound · Dec 11th, 2011, 10:23:21 PM

So I was looking for water type revenge killers when I realized that Luvdisc is one of the fastest water types in Nu... yeah
Anyway, Floatzel's your best bet unless you want to use scarf/banded basculin or simipour (which has seemed to drop in usage a lot for some reason)

The Reptile · Dec 12th, 2011, 12:31:50 AM

Hey guys, how good do you guys think Rapidash is?

He is one of the few viable Fire Attacking pokemon (Who, imo, are only Emboar and Magmortar and MAYBE Flareon, although it lacks a good STAB attack). He also has a very interesting movepool, most notably Megahorn and Hypnosis (although Hypnosis has horrible accuracy). While he might seem outclassed by Emboar (Magmortar should be going Special, so doesn't automatically outclass it), I think Megahorn and Hypnosis make him different enough so that he isn't completely overshadowed by Emboar. He also gets Wild Charge, but most physical fire pokemon got that anyways, so nothing really special there, and Morning Sun, which makes for some semi-reliable recovery.

Raikaria · Dec 12th, 2011, 3:17:13 AM

If you're looking for an offensive Water type, I've actually found Samuwott surpriseingly decent.

95/85/70 is pretty bulky, especially as I use a bulky boosting set, and Base 100 Atk backed by Sword Dance is nothing to scoff at.

Torrent is also rather useful. Quite a few time I've SD'ed, been brought into Torrent Range, and then started to wreck things with Aqua Jet.

Megahorn is lovely coverage, hitting Grass types for neutral at worst, and also picking up hits on the likes of Slowking.

I usually use Waterfall for the last slot to hit switch-ins/slow mons hard.

About the only thing that gives the coverage this set has issues is Altaria... and Shedinja.

breh · Dec 12th, 2011, 3:21:10 AM

rapidash also gets nothing for rock types bar iron tail. it's bad; don't use it.

The Reptile · Dec 12th, 2011, 3:50:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Breludicolo

rapidash also gets nothing for rock types bar iron tail. it's bad; don't use it.

tbh I haven't seen that many Rock-types, even though there are some really good ones.

Oh, and he does get Double Kick, but 60 BP is horrible.

But yeah, I do see where you're coming from. Maybe use him as a late game sweeper after walls have been weakened and the rock-type are gone? Or is he horribly outclassed in that regard?

Omicron · Dec 12th, 2011, 3:57:33 AM

Yes, Samurott is incredibly underrated and should be used more. The Swords Dance set is absolutely devastating after a boost, and with access to priority in the form of Aqua Jet, it isn't being stopped by Scarfers. The wallbreaker set is just as dangerous, hitting hard with Hydro Pump off of its good Special Attack, and Taunting walls so that they cannot heal / use status. Not to mention this thing gets Megahorn... an awesome Water-type in the tier.

Also, the only reason to use Rapidash over Emboar or Magmortar is for is its higher Speed and Flash Fire. Rapidash sucks in all honesty.

What I really like however, is Jynx. Immunity to Water-type moves via Dry Skin, Nasty Plot, Lovely Kiss, STAB 100% accurate Blizzards in hail off of a base 115 Special Attack? Yes please. Too bad Snover will be banned soon...

SuperJOCKE · Dec 12th, 2011, 6:15:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Omicron

Actually, today I ran into a Sunny Day variant of Exeggutor which almost managed to best my hail team. I can definitely see it being very effective, as Chlorophyll helps eggy a lot. Unfortunately it doesn't manage to outspeed faster Scarfers.... but Sunny Day is definitely a viable set, as Hidden Power Fire in the sun will destroy most members of a hail team

I use Sunny Day Exeggutor and it's good. I take down at least 3, sometimes even 4 or 5 Pokemon almost each battle.

You shouldn't underestimate Chlorophyll.

Dec 11th, 2011, 1:58:40 PM	#30
DTC Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 1,069 Mentor	Super Luck only gives you an extra 6.25% chance of critting, which isn't that much. Superpower is better then Stone Edge because it allows Absol to hit Steel types super effectively rather then not very effectively. With just Sucker Punch+Superpower you get perfect neutral effective coverage other then Croagunk in NU. The Superpower attack lower may be annoying, but it's a sacrifice you have to make. __________________ Pokemon Showdown! #pokemon

Dec 11th, 2011, 2:14:04 PM	#31
col49 somewhat unorthodox Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 757 planet fickle	Personally, I gotta say that I love Magneton. I dunno what I'm gonna do when it moves up. It's bulk it just awesome with Eviolite, and it totally shuts down Klinklang without any effort whatsoever. Also, I don't know why, but everyone seems to assume that I'm running Hp Fire or something, because they always switch in Quaggy :/ I don't seem why you would, because TBolt hits basically all the Steels in the tier harder anyway, but whatever, free OHKO w/Hp Grass for me :3 __________________

Dec 11th, 2011, 2:48:37 PM	#33
DTC Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 1,069 Mentor	Tier changes in January are irrelevant to this discussion, we are talking about Superpower Absol now. Also, I don't understand why you hate Superpower so much because of the attack drop. Hone Claws increases by +1, Swords Dance increases by +2 and then after Superpower it's +1... A 100% accurcey Stone Edge does not really warrant Hone Claws being used when you could use Swords Dance which makes you do more damage. __________________ Pokemon Showdown! #pokemon

Dec 11th, 2011, 2:59:06 PM	#34
Omicron Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,041 Seattle, WA	Yea, when something has access to both Hone Claws and Swords Dance, Swords Dance is almost always better. Oh and I have yet to try out Absol in the BW meta... definitely will when i get a chance, SD Sucker Punch is just too good to pass up And what are people's opinions on Megahorn vs. Superpower? I personally think Superpower is better since it hits Steel-types, and Megahorn has slightly redundant coverage with Absol's STAB... __________________

Dec 11th, 2011, 6:33:42 PM	#35
King Serperior Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 2,824 I am an "Andalite Bandit." Shiver in fear while you can, Yeerks. We're coming for you!	I use Scarfed Wailord. Mini-Kyogre is pretty good. What are the opinions of you guys? __________________ CAP ASB Team Read the Animorphs here. Seriously, click the link if you're a fan or are interested!! (>^-^)>@ <(o.o<) "Here's a cookie for you!"

Dec 11th, 2011, 1:27:25 PM	#27
ChaoticaMortis Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 519 Texas	Anyone notice Absol getting Hone Claws + Stone Edge/Psycho Cut/Night Slash along with Super Luck? Unboosted it already punches holes into things, but with Hone Claws it becomes even more powerful, and Stone Edge's accuracy actually gets fixed.

Dec 11th, 2011, 1:36:39 PM	#28
steviestar Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 148	Absol gets swords dance. I'd rather gamble with stone edge's shaky accuracy than give up a free +1 attack compared to hone claws. Stone edge really isn't that great on Absol anyway, I'd always rather use superpower as a coverage move.

Dec 11th, 2011, 1:50:08 PM	#29
ChaoticaMortis Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 519 Texas	But Superpower lowers your stats and doesn't have the double crit chance that Stone Edge gets with Super Luck. I'd take a +1 atk Stone Edge crit over a +2 Superpower making my Atk lower.

Dec 11th, 2011, 2:14:33 PM	#32
ChaoticaMortis Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 519 Texas	What steel types in NU right now are you really going to be countering with Absol that you couldn't already be countering with Magneton? Besides, when the tiers shift in January it's likely that we won't have Klinklang or Magneton in NU, the only steels that anyone even uses. I would suppose that the better coverage in general is a good thing, but if you're weakening yourself using that extra coverage then you're either going to die faster or be forced to switch out. Switching isn't a problem if you're just revenging, but if you genuinely want to kill a few things before having to switch out or die, Hone Claws-boosted Stone Edge can really fuck a few things up.

Dec 11th, 2011, 7:05:48 PM	#37
Alice I want the world to make me wonder... Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 767 Wonderland	For me, eviolite gudurr is one of the best pokemon in the tier; it also stops klingklang in its tracks and can setup/heal back with drain punch and bulk up in its face. And it's got one of the few priority worth in the tier, helping against otherwise fast and problematic fragile sweepers such as braviary, swellow, and even scarf rotom F :3 __________________ As useful as a chocolate fireguard... ALiCE's EMOTiON (Art thread...) --- shinycarletto: @tfc it's really funny to pain split together ^^

Dec 11th, 2011, 7:07:02 PM	#38
King Serperior Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 2,824 I am an "Andalite Bandit." Shiver in fear while you can, Yeerks. We're coming for you!	@ Ice-Eyes: well, I don't ladder, so I try everything until I find something good. Everyone has their opinions. I am just looking for a good Water-typed Revenge-killer. Any suggestions? __________________ CAP ASB Team Read the Animorphs here. Seriously, click the link if you're a fan or are interested!! (>^-^)>@ <(o.o<) "Here's a cookie for you!" Last edited by King Serperior; Dec 11th, 2011 at 7:07:57 PM. Reason: Ninja'd

Dec 11th, 2011, 9:07:16 PM	#41
King Serperior Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 2,824 I am an "Andalite Bandit." Shiver in fear while you can, Yeerks. We're coming for you!	^thanks, I'll try him out. Should I band him or LO? I am also going to do some more tests with Basculin. From what I have noticed, CB+STAB+Adaptability=Pain. Scarf gives him enough speed to abuse a STAB Adaptability Waterfall. It has Crunch to use on Exeggecutor (if you have no choice), Jynx, and Slowking. I don't see why this awesome Pokemon isn't seen more :( __________________ CAP ASB Team Read the Animorphs here. Seriously, click the link if you're a fan or are interested!! (>^-^)>@ <(o.o<) "Here's a cookie for you!"

Dec 11th, 2011, 9:16:38 PM	#42
Axa Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 355	Basculin is slower than Swellow and defenses are pretty weak, that's the main reason really. And I'd say Band for Switcheroo sheenanigans, but LO gives him a lot more flexibility.

Dec 11th, 2011, 10:23:21 PM	#44
moonbound Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 544 Let me teach you the secret of bodybuilding. First thing: Protein. Second thing: Protein.	So I was looking for water type revenge killers when I realized that Luvdisc is one of the fastest water types in Nu... yeah Anyway, Floatzel's your best bet unless you want to use scarf/banded basculin or simipour (which has seemed to drop in usage a lot for some reason)

Dec 12th, 2011, 12:31:50 AM	#45
The Reptile Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 639 DreMZ on PS! (´･ω･`)	Hey guys, how good do you guys think Rapidash is? He is one of the few viable Fire Attacking pokemon (Who, imo, are only Emboar and Magmortar and MAYBE Flareon, although it lacks a good STAB attack). He also has a very interesting movepool, most notably Megahorn and Hypnosis (although Hypnosis has horrible accuracy). While he might seem outclassed by Emboar (Magmortar should be going Special, so doesn't automatically outclass it), I think Megahorn and Hypnosis make him different enough so that he isn't completely overshadowed by Emboar. He also gets Wild Charge, but most physical fire pokemon got that anyways, so nothing really special there, and Morning Sun, which makes for some semi-reliable recovery. __________________ I do the arts now! :D

Dec 12th, 2011, 3:17:13 AM	#46
Raikaria Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 1,165	If you're looking for an offensive Water type, I've actually found Samuwott surpriseingly decent. 95/85/70 is pretty bulky, especially as I use a bulky boosting set, and Base 100 Atk backed by Sword Dance is nothing to scoff at. Torrent is also rather useful. Quite a few time I've SD'ed, been brought into Torrent Range, and then started to wreck things with Aqua Jet. Megahorn is lovely coverage, hitting Grass types for neutral at worst, and also picking up hits on the likes of Slowking. I usually use Waterfall for the last slot to hit switch-ins/slow mons hard. About the only thing that gives the coverage this set has issues is Altaria... and Shedinja.

Dec 12th, 2011, 3:21:10 AM	#47
breh Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 2,934	rapidash also gets nothing for rock types bar iron tail. it's bad; don't use it. __________________ VGC Regionals: VGC11 Top 16, VGC12 12th Place

Dec 12th, 2011, 3:57:33 AM	#49
Omicron Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,041 Seattle, WA	Yes, Samurott is incredibly underrated and should be used more. The Swords Dance set is absolutely devastating after a boost, and with access to priority in the form of Aqua Jet, it isn't being stopped by Scarfers. The wallbreaker set is just as dangerous, hitting hard with Hydro Pump off of its good Special Attack, and Taunting walls so that they cannot heal / use status. Not to mention this thing gets Megahorn... an awesome Water-type in the tier. Also, the only reason to use Rapidash over Emboar or Magmortar is for is its higher Speed and Flash Fire. Rapidash sucks in all honesty. What I really like however, is Jynx. Immunity to Water-type moves via Dry Skin, Nasty Plot, Lovely Kiss, STAB 100% accurate Blizzards in hail off of a base 115 Special Attack? Yes please. Too bad Snover will be banned soon... __________________