Rating Basics - Page 2

New World Order · Jan 8th, 2012, 8:11:01 PM

Oh what the hell, lets give this a shot. For this team, I provided the following rate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat New World Order

Hi, cool team. First of all, the Volt-turn combination of Scizor and Rotom-W could give your team some issues, as one or the other are bound to give one of your Pokemon troubles. Rain stall is another playstyle that could greatly hamper your team, as you have four Pokemon prone to Toxic Spikes (although one of them does grab a nice Attack boost from it) and one other Pokemon who is completely useless against Rain teams. A way you can fix this up is to replace Conkeldurr with a Bulk Up Breloom. Breloom has no problems dealing with Rotom-W, as it resists their STABs, and also laughs at Scizor after a Bulk Up or two. Bulk Up Breloom also tears apart Rain stall, boasting super effective STABs against some of the most common members of Rain stall, such as Politoed, Ferrothorn, and Quagsire, and also only benefits from poison, unlike Conkeldurr, who is still negatively affected. Breloom also has a pseudo status immunity with a Toxic Orb.

If a fast revenge killer is what you seek, then Choice Scarf Terrakion is your man, in place of Choice Band Mamoswine. Currently, Bulky Volcarona can cause some problems, as Heatran doesn't actually have anything to hit it with, after a couple Quiver Dances, Heatran wont be doing much damage anymore. Should you make the change to Bulk Up Breloom, you will also have opened your team up to SD Lucario. Choice Scarf Terrakion can revenge kill all three of those. While Mamo's Ice Shard could prove helpful, Choice Scarf Terrakion is still able to check many of the threats Mamoswine was expected to, such as DD Salamence and DD Dragonite. Choice Scarf Terrakion can always go on a late game sweep with Close Combat as well, and adds some much welcome Offense to your team.

Of course, Terrakion is not enough for checking DD Salamence and DD Dragonite, you can never have too many lines of defenses against those two. Swap Heatran's item to an Air Balloon to help with this, and run Hidden Power Ice in place of Dragon Pulse. This way, the Dragons will have to Outrage to break your Air Balloon rather than Earthquake, while you can return fire with Hidden Power Ice. As well, numerous Chlorophyll sweepers, such as Sawsbuck and Tangrowth, love to run Ground-type moves solely for Heatran. Wouldn't it absolutely suck if you lost him to a random Earthquake Venusaur and got swept? It also gives you backup against Landorus, who, with the loss of Mamoswine, is checked only by Slowbro. As well, no point really of Timid nature, as you outspeed nothing significant, go with Modest instead.

Finally, swap Toxic on Blissey for Thunder Wave, if Bliss and Slowbro carry different status moves, they might clash, as you might accidentally poison something you needed paralyzed or something. Paralysis is the more useful status for your team, as you are full of average Speed, but powerful Attackers, such as Specs Rotom-W, Offensive Heatran, and Bulk Up Breloom/ Conkeldurr.

GL

TLDR version

Sets

My "personal rate style" so to speak, so not looking for any suggestions stylistically. I'm more looking to improve the quality of the changes themselves, and anything I might have failed to identify. Thoughts?

Danilo · Jan 8th, 2012, 8:15:53 PM

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3460439
That's the link of the team I just rated. I know my lengths aren't as lengthy as other rates but I feel(hope) that I still get the job done. Any criticisms?

New World Order · Jan 8th, 2012, 8:27:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Sir

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3460439
That's the link of the team I just rated. I know my lengths aren't as lengthy as other rates but I feel(hope) that I still get the job done. Any criticisms?

IMO, length is fine, although I would suggest putting your sets into hide tags to make your rate look more visually appealing. The command is [ HIDE]the set[ /HIDE] (remove the spaces). Now, the changes you've made to the team are fine, but the first thing I noticed is that you've failed to pick up on this:

...

Thunder has 50% accuracy in the sun, which is just... sad...

There are a couple other threats you've failed to identify, but over time, you should be able to pick up on those, so I wont bother listing them out. As for the rate itself though, you may want to mention a few side effects of your changes, and why you should make the changes in spite of these side effects. For example, when you suggest Heatran over Vaporeon, you take away his Wish support. Just throw in a little blurb saying, "Heatran brings so much to the table, in the form of a Fire immunity, Dragon resist, Stealth Rock user, blahblahblah that the loss of Wish is worth it."

Danilo · Jan 8th, 2012, 8:30:22 PM

Aight, good to know my rate wasn't awful. I kind of just assumed that Thunder was Thunderbolt. In the future I'll do my best to pick up on those things. Anything other criticism is more than welcome.

**Pocket** · Jan 18th, 2012, 4:04:06 PM

I'm kind of iffy on the rates I've just given out to Tomahawk9 and Joeyboy's RMT. Their team affords little room for change to deal with their problems (at least that's what I thought).

Tomahawk9's RMT

Quote:

Pocket
Great team, Tomahawk! Although this is an offensive team, I think it's weakness to Terrakion is major; it's not okay if a Scarf Terrakion can potentially spam Stone-Edge and pick off your team one Pokemon at a time. I really think what this team needs is some solid Rock resist to complement with the stellar Fighting-type resist from Intimidate Salamence.

Since I want you to keep the Dual Dragon core intact, Salamence & Kyurem should stay. Abomasnow is necessary for facilitating Kyurem's offense, and Heatran provides crucial resistances to this team. I think Starmie & Scizor can be replaced for something that can stomach a Stone Edge. I am leaning towards replacing Scizor, since Starmie's Natural Cure can come in handy against Scald users, as well as its useful Speed.

I believe that either Conkeldurr or Metagross can really provide this team with that much needed Rock resistance while maintaining the offensive pressure. Neither of them just don't take hits, but they also have priority to pick off Terrakion, similarly to Scizor. If you go with Conkeldurr, the Bulk Up set is the safest bet. Metagross can probably work well as an all-out Attacker @ Leftovers. After an Attack boost from Meteor Mash, very little can stomache Metagross's onslaught. Admittedly you lose out on Scizor's powerful Bullet Punch and U-turn, but I believe the Terrakion coverage provided by either of these power houses makes up for it.

Metagross @ Leftovers | Clear Body
Adamant | 216 HP / 252 Atk / 40 Spe
Meteor Mash | Hammer Arm | Zen Headbutt / Ice Punch | Bullet Punch

Sorry for the late rate, but I hope you find it helpful.

Joeyboy's RMT

Quote:

Pocket
Haha, interesting solution, Tomahawk :D. He's right - Jirachi is half as effective without Iron Head; I suggest you stick with it a little longer. It really helps finish off dangerous threats, such as CM Latios and Virizion once they are paralyzed. If you really need Protect, though, adding Stealth Rock on a different mon is a good approach that Tomahawk has recommended. I'd probably recommend Forretress or Donphan for the dual SR / Rapid Spin support, though, since they provide enough Terrakion coverage in combination with Gyarados & Jirachi.

What your team really need is Speed - it's too defensive. I suggest you Scarf Politoed so you can finish off Terrakion, Tornadus, Gengar, 50% Starmie, and +1 Dragonite.

The only way to bolster your coverage against Electric-types is to add Gastrodon or a specially-defensive Celebi. Claydol is an effective stopper to Jolteon, but falls short against Raikou with Weather Ball and Zapdos. I'd go with Celebi, since you want something that can break through Jellicent / Ferrothorn / Gastrodon (Nasty Plot) and absorb status (Natural Cure). Celebi has an added benefit of being a decent check to Terrakion and CM Jirachi, as well as providing further paralysis support to this team. Its weakness to U-turn and Pursuit may make your team struggle more against Volt-Turn and Tyranitar, however. Iron Head on Jirachi makes Tyranitar lesser of a problem.

In short:
~ Iron Head on Jirachi
~ Either Tomahawk's Claydol or Donphan / Forretress
~ Scarf Politoed
~ Specially-Defensive Celebi > Breloom

Sets

Any impression towards either one of my rates is appreciated!

New World Order · Jan 19th, 2012, 3:54:44 PM

Yeah, those teams are well thought out and already have most threats covered. Especially Tomahawk's team, it took me a good 5 minutes or so to find the problems with that team. With teams like that, less is more. EV changes, item changes, move changes etc are just as valuable as team member changes. I think you did a pretty good job with the rate on Joeyboy's team, although you may want to mention that your Celebi set doesn't check Volt-turn nearly as well as Breloom. Remember, pros and cons to every change ;)

**Pocket** · Jan 19th, 2012, 7:53:58 PM

Thanks for the input, TR NWO ;p. I haven't used his team, so it's not easy to gauge how Tomahawk deals with Terrakion, but my impression was that nothing can really switch into a Stone-Edge. I suggested switching out Scizor for Conkeldurr for Metagross, so at least Scarf Terrakion wont be spamming Stone Edge, but I guess that was too much of a change?

Quote:

Celebi has an added benefit of being a decent check to Terrakion and CM Jirachi, as well as providing further paralysis support to this team. Its weakness to U-turn and Pursuit may make your team struggle more against Volt-Turn and Tyranitar, however.

I actually did list the cons of replacing Breloom with Celebi.

New World Order · Jan 19th, 2012, 7:54:44 PM

lol, sorry, I can't read :(

**Pocket** · Jan 19th, 2012, 8:19:37 PM

I tried both, but I like the latter, since it's more compact. However, when I want the person to take special note of the moves, I do a hybrid of the two:

Pokemon @ Item | Trait
Nature | 252 / 4 / 252
- Move
- Move
- Move
- Move

Either case, I usually hide tags these information and set explanation to make the rate more organized.

EDIT: I actually haven't thought of it like that! Yea, definitely go with the standard export format for the newer folks posting teams :d

New World Order · Jan 19th, 2012, 9:23:32 PM

Quote:

Pokemon @ Item
Trait:
EVs: 252 / 4 / 252
Nature
- Move
- Move
- Move
- Move

This I believe is the standard format, as it follows the same format as the PO exports. However, it's sometimes easier for a TR to use a more compact format themselves, and there really is no standard for that.

BTzz · Jan 20th, 2012, 2:50:48 AM

I rated teams back when I first joined Smogon, but looking back I realize they were pretty crappy. Now that I have a bit more knowledge of the metagame, I've decided to get back into team rating. I'd love some advise on one of my recent rates :)

tavok's Sun Team

My Rate

Hey, cool sun team. First off, I know they're most likely typos, but you have several natures listed as Hardy so I would change them to the appropriate ones. The first threat to your team that jumped out at me was Swords Dance Lucario. Once it gets to +2 it will do some serious damage to your team, as your only normal resist is weak to Close Combat and Extremespeed > Hitmontops Mach Punch. A bulkier Hitmontop set with intimidate could fix this up, however I'm going to suggest a Choice Scarf Terrakion > Latios over Latios since I don't really like Latios as your revenge killer. Latios, (especially with a Scarf) is basically a free switch-in for one of a sun team's main concerns, Tyranitar. Terrakion on the other hand, keeps Tyranitar away meaning you can keep your sun up longer while also revenge killing almost all the same threats as Latios did. Scarf Terrakion also gives you a great pivot switch if Tyranitar wants to switch into Heatran or Ninetales.

With Terrakion around, I think Hitmontop can be replaced. Personally I don't think your team needs Rapid Spin support. Your team does a very good job at keepong the pressure on common hazard users such as Ferrothorn and Tyranitar, not to mention your only Stealth Rock weak Pokemon is Ninetales. I suggest a Physically Deffensive Cresselia > Hitmontop. This change does a lot of things for your team and sun teams in general. She provides you with a study mixed wall thanks to a sun boosted Moonlight, while providing you with a secondary check to Landorus, Terrakion, Dragonite etc. You lose your backup sun, however with Cress you gain reflect support which is better in a lot of situations, specifically with your specially def based Pokemon like Heatran. If you decide to roll with this change then I would use Sunny Day > Sub on Ninetales due to the lack of spinner. You can check out Ninetales Sunny Day set for the full explantion.

Finally, I don't think Mixed Venusaur is really nessasary here. Sure beating Heatran is nice, but with Earthpower on your own Heatran, HP Fighting on Ninetales and possibly Scarf Terrakion, I don't think losing all that power is worth it. I would just go with the standard Special Growth Venusaur for more power. This also means you can run Leftovers on Venusaur, which is great since it's your only reliable Rotom-W switch in.

hide="set(s)"
Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
Jolly nature
Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- X-Scissor
- Earthquake

Cresselia @ Leftovers
Bold nature
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Atk / 60 Spe
Levitate
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Moonlight
- Reflect |
hide
gl with your team :)

I still need to work on my grammar :/

Oh and regarding set format, sometimes I like to format my suggested sets the same as the how the OP formatted theirs so it's easier for them to put it into their RMT should they decide to use it.

**Arcticblast** · Feb 2nd, 2012, 10:07:40 PM

I recently posted this rate that I'm not 100% sure about. I tried to change his Pokemon as little as possible... Is there anything I should be doing better?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Arcticblast

You seem to be on the right track, but some sets and Pokemon could use some work.
First and foremost, Scizor. Choice Band Scizor is incredibly dangerous, but your EV spread is a little bit odd. I suggest using an EV spread of 248 HP / 252 Attack / 8 Speed and using Pursuit over Aerial Ace, which allows you to catch Pokemon such as Reuniclus and Celebi as they switch out.

Next, Raikou. Generally, when using Raikou, your best bet is to use Calm Mind. I suggest changing Raikou's set to Calm Mind / Thunder / Hidden Power Water / Shadow Ball with Life Orb as its item. Calm Mind allows you to boost your stats and fire off powerful attacks. Thunder is for STAB, HP Water is for those pesky Ground-types who are immune to Thunder (and gets a Rain boost), and Shadow Ball is simply coverage.

I like the Politoed set. Interesting.

Kabutops isn't fast enough to really do anything. Sure, he can spin, but he's too slow to do anything else - or even to do it more than once before being KO'd. I suggest using Starmie over Kabutops. Starmie is not only the fastest Pokemon to learn Rapid Spin, but is frighteningly powerful under Rain. Most Ghost-type Pokemon can't switch in to block Rapid Spin without risking a Hydro Pump. Starmie also learns Recover, so it can not only switch in and spin several times but even use Life Orb and heal off the lost HP. With Natural Cure, it can even absorb status to a degree and cure itself just by switching out. I reccomend using Ice Beam as your fourth move, as you already have Raikou to utilize Electric moves.

On Zoroark, I suggest switching Choice Specs to Choice Scarf and Flamethrower for a Hidden Power of your choosing. Ground is probably best, as it takes out Toxicroak while not being deadweight against much more of OU. Focus Blast does more to Ferrothorn than Flamethrower in the Rain anyway (I think), and this way you can outspeed non-Scarfed Terrakion. Also, Dark Pulse over Night Daze. The accuracy of Night Daze, WILL let you down, and DP's flinch chance is helpful.

First of all, your Bronzong set has 708 EVs. Not sure how that worked out exactly. Anyway, I suggest you remove Trick Room, as it doesn't fit your team well at all and Bronzong doesn't have the raw power that Reuniclus has. Use Sassy over Brave and an EV spread of 252 HP / 84 Atk / 80 Def / 92 SpD.

Sets

Good luck!

***Delko**** · Feb 7th, 2012, 6:15:03 AM

Decent rate Arcticblast, but you remain a bit shallow. You only suggest small moveset changes rather then providing a solution for threats to this team. Don't get me wrong your suggestions are good (Swift Swim Kabutops in conjunction with Drizzle Politoed is banned anyway) but they don't change the fact that the team is still pretty weak to Volcarona, strong physical attackers such as Terrakion and Lucario, VoltTurn, Stall teams etc.

Sayonara · Feb 17th, 2012, 4:49:41 PM

Here's a rate I did on this team.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Expert Physics

Hey,

Nice team. I do see some threats, so I'll point them out to you to help improve the team.

Threats:

Scarf Landbro can be a problem, especially if Forretress and Rotom-W both go down. It can spam U-Turn to destroy Celebi, or force out the latter, giving your opponent the offensive pressure. It can wreck both Terrakion and Tyranitar as well, with an Earthquake that actually gets boosted since you summoned the Sand. It also outspeeds Salamence and revenge-kills it with Stone Edge, a move that will also be boosted by Sand Force. Seeing that this is a Sand team, Hippowdon > Tyranitar is a change I'd recommend. T-tar doesn't have very good synergy with the other team members, and increases your team's weakness to Ground and Rock type moves. Choice Band Scizor also poses a great threat to the team as of right now, as its Bullet Punch lets it beat Terrakion and Tyranitar. Bar Forretress, nothing will want to switch into either a Bullet Punch or a STAB U-Turn. The infamous Volt-Turn strategy itself also hurts your team, as Rotom-W can also use Volt Switch all day, and send in Scizor, then U-Turn out again. I also agree with Natgeo concerning CB Terrakion. Its STAB Stone Edges and Close Combats are a huge menace to your team. Adding Hippowdon would help you counter Terrakion, Landorus and Scizor with more ease. Onto Hippowdon's set.

Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)
~ Stealth Rock
~ Earthquake
~ Slack Off
~ Roar / Toxic

Alright. Hippowdon gives you more insurance against physical sweepers, as its very decent 108 HP and 118 Def stats let it take hits on the physical side all day. Its access to Slack Off is also extremely helpful, as it lets it recover 50% of HP just like that. Stealth Rock is the mandatory hazard, as it lets you muscle through Dragonite and Volcarona, two huge threats, with more ease. Earthquake is the main STAB option, and it lets you hit with some decent damage. The last slot's move is up to you. Roar lets you phaze away random sweepers, whilst Toxic lets you stall in conjuction of Slack Off.

I'm also seconding NatGeo's recommendation of Scizor > Forretress. The physical wall is already insured by me previous recommendation of Hippowdon. Scizor provides the priority your team was lacking, and it does pretty well in Sand, covering many threats like CB Terrakion. It also lets you pull off the VoltTurn combo in Sand, which is pretty cool.

Well, I hope I helped. Good luck, man! Also, have a nice day.

~ Expert Physics

Can I have feedback in order to improve my rates! Thank you very much!

ShakeItUp · Feb 17th, 2012, 9:44:20 PM

K well since no official TR's are commenting, guess I will hehe.

It's nice effort Expert Physics, especially since you let him retain his sandstorm team and such even when replacing Tyranitar. However, I would try not to overstate Hippowdon's bulk in how it can wall CB Terrakion. Adamant CB Terrakion scores a clean 2HKO against Hippowdon (SR cancels out Leftovers) and Jolly CB Terrakion does 88% minimum after two hits. meaning that if Hippowdon isn't at full HP or very close to it, it won't be a very effective check. Keep that in mind, and do damage calcs if you aren't sure how much an attack will do. I also fail to see how a Hippowdon can handle Volt-Turn. Scizor can just U-Turn out and Hippowdon will get blasted by Rotom-W's Hydro Pump. Regardless, he has a Celebi with Hidden Power Fire, so Volt-Turn is essentially already covered since he already had Forretress to take U-Turn.

@harsha, as I stated earlier, Celebi has Hidden Power Fire so Latias wouldn't really help the cause since it essentially does the same thing.

Either way, everyone gets better with practice and it's a solid start!

ToF · Feb 18th, 2012, 2:49:23 AM

Yes I agree with the above comments. You cited voltturn as a weakness yet Celebi breaks that strategy single-handedly. You suggested adding more Pursuit weak Pokemon in Latias, which doesn't help the overall synergy of the team.

One thing I don't like is you said Scarf Landorus is a problem assuming x, y, and z are dead. Of course that's the case lol, if your counter to something is dead naturally you're gonna have a problem with it. Avoid using things like that in your rates.

I think you just need to kinda sort out your advice first. I like the format, I think you elaborated on suggestions just fine, but the actual suggestions could use some fine-tuning.

Princess Bri · Feb 25th, 2012, 3:08:15 PM

One of my first rates, an one of my first posts ;o

Here's the team

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Princess Bri

What is this. Originality? In BW? Blasphemy.

All joking aside, this looks like a pretty cool team, now for the rate. Oh and also, your Importable is outdated, and I'm OCD and it's not perfect! D:

First of all, I second mostwanted's of using Latias > Virizion on your team. First of all, this switch is great, because HP Fire + Dragon Attack Latias is able to break Volt-Switch even better than your current Virizion set, and you gain a more durable switch-in into water attacks, which is currently lacking since Virizion lacks reliable recovery, as well as the fact that Latias is a fantastic check to sun, since my next suggestion will be getting rid of your Heatran, your main sun check/counter. I won't divulge further into this, since mostwanted already described the benefits of Latias. The set is in his post. You can also try a CM + HP Fire Latias as well, and see which one you like better.

Secondly, your team is rather weak to some certain strong special attackers that have a move to hit Heatran. LO Tornadus in rain is an example, as he can literally rip apart your team, and he 2HKO's Heatran, so that isn't even a good check. Sub varients of Kyurem also give you grief, as it 2HKO's Heatran, and proceeds to wreck the rest of your team. One last one is Reuniclus. TR Reuniclus gets a free Trick Room on Slowbro and Virizion, and even Magnezone and proceeds to wreck you. All you can do is simply switch around and attempt to Crunch it with Sharpedo, which iirc doesn't even OHKO. CM Fetus is on the same boat, as it doesn't fear anything from your team, and can also sweep you too. Due to these major weaknesses, I propose using a Specially Defense Jirachi > Heatran. Jirachi covers all the things that Heatran does, as well as all the aforementioned threats listed above. Jirachi is a much better counter to the Lati's, and even provides Paralysis support to your team, further aiding a Sharpedo sweep. Jirachi also provides Wish Support, which can come in handy when trying to heal back up your LO Recoil'd Sharpedo, as well as Landorus. Jirachi is a surefire counter to Kyurem and Reuniclus, and provides many valuable assets that Heatran cannot boast. Here's the set:

Haxmaster

If you feel that Wish Support isn't necessary, you can use U-turn to escape from Magnezone, and form a nice U-turn'ing pair with Landorus as well. The speed EV's allow you to outspeed Max Speed Magnezone.

One last suggestion is for Slowbro. I recommend Psychic > Thunder Wave on your current set. Psychic is needed for Conkeldurr, who would otherwise prove to be problematic. Thunder Wave isn't needed, since Jirachi now paralyzes everything. Be sure to run 19 Speed IV's on Slowbro so you can outspeed Min-Speed 0 Speed IV's Conkeldurr too! This insures Payback is only 50 BP instead of 100!

TL;DR

Good luck with your team!

SkullCandy · Mar 28th, 2012, 3:53:04 AM

Hey guys. I used to be really into team rating and have recently got back into it again (you could say I'm a bit of a RMT junkie, I post about 4/5 rates a day.) Could I get some feed back on a couple or rates perhaps, to see if I'm doing it right?

Here are the links:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthr...65#post4166165
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthr...22#post4165022
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthr...26#post4165626

Thanks

San_Pellegrino · Mar 28th, 2012, 10:29:10 AM

Hey Skull Candy,

Glad to see the rating enthusiasm! I think that a problem that you have is that you haven't been taking time to identify pokemon functions within the individual team microcosm. On the sun team, there are some glaring weaknesses to mons like Heatran and opposing weathers. While I agree with changing Voltorb (which you identified as a revenge killer, when it is really more of a support/annoyer) on that team, adding a Heatran of his own might be a better solution, offensive or defensive. Adding Donphan on the Gazelle + Dragon team over Heatran also might not have been the first thing I did, but it was really good that you identified the right problem of not having a spinner in what seemed a heavy offensive team. (I personally would have done what bubbly suggested - Starmie and Scizor, who posted after you)

Work for elaborating on the basis strategy of: Identify a problem - Articulate it to the Team builder, proving why it is a problem - Suggesting a solution, as well as its pros and cons.

Keep on working at it!

The Silent Storm · Apr 12th, 2012, 1:43:19 PM

Hi there, I love to rate teams and making them better, however I didn't rate on a long time, so any feedbacks are appreciated!
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3464912
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthr...43#post4185743
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthr...82#post4185682
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthr...77#post4185677

MavsObbession · Apr 25th, 2012, 6:36:53 PM

Here are the links to my rates so far:

VGC Goodstuffs Rate
OU Sand Team Rate

I want to really improve towards being a recognized Team Rater, I appreciate it!

PenguinX · Apr 25th, 2012, 7:55:06 PM

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthr...73#post4189873
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthr...94#post4197694
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthr...59#post4206659

So I'm trying to get into rating and these are some of my recent rates that I'm looking on some feedback for. I think the actual suggestions I'm making are all solid but I make things way more tl;dr than they often need to be, which is something I need to work on I guess. I just really want to cover everything I want to say and sometimes I go a little over the top. I imagine some of the other team raters have had this problem in the past and just want to know if I should work on being more concise?

I should probably use colours and bold text and other stuff I guess because it would probably make it easier for the team builder to highlight what I'm actually suggesting in my essays.

mostwanted · Apr 26th, 2012, 1:59:06 AM

The Silent Storm:

Decent rates, you identified the threats and provided minimum changes which is always something we are looking for. My main concern is your format and descriptions, at the moment both of them are poor and need improvement. You should type complete and proper sentences in order to make it understandable for others. Try to be as descriptive regarding your recommendations as possible. If you are unsure about the format I suggest checking this out, it'll give you the essential information regarding how to deliver a well-throughout rate.

I also noticed your rating isn't very consistent, if you are looking forward to becoming an official Team Rater, please rate often !

MavsObbession:

I really like your rates, they are all well thought and executed nicely. You have the potential to be an effective all-round Team Rater but it'll require a lot of work and patience. To step your quality to a whole another level, I recommend reading this thread carefully, it'll provide you with the necessary tips on how to rate and structure your rates even better, for example after reading it you would know how many maximum Pokemon you can replace and how to organize your rates to be more visually appealing and of great quality. Lastly please make yourself familiar with the tiers before rating.

Keep up the good work !

PenguinX:

Your rates are incredible in terms of both high quality and quantity wise. I would say your main priority should be to fix all the important things like the top-threats and sets for a team, don't worry too much about emphasizing on every single Pokemon. Yes, by using both colors and bold text you basically summarize your rates and make it efficient for others to read. On another side note, you can possibly try merging your paragraphs into two or three important ones where the first or second ones would contain necessary changes and the last one would be reserved for minor changes.

Try to be consistent while rating and keep doing what you do best !

**Pocket** · Apr 26th, 2012, 4:17:01 AM

MavsObbession, you obviously know your VGC meta - you have provided some very thoughtful rate for that Goodstuffs team, supplementing some calcs to back your Grass Knot suggestion. The amount of detail is sufficient and spot-on, as well.

The second rate could use some improvement, though. You noted the big weakness to Rain, but then in your example you cited Ludicolo, which is hardly seen in OU ladder due to Aldaron's Proposal (it's not the same as VGC :d). When you explained Golurk's mediocrity, you mentioned Grass Knot, but that is also not a common move in OU, since most opt for Giga Drain for recovery and to hurt Rotom-W / Politoed. When you were comparing Scizor to Escavalier, I would have pointed out Scizor's access to Superpower, U-turn, and technician Bullet Punch before Bug Bite and its ability to knock out Ludicolo. You are obviously in VGC mode here -_-;;

Although I may also be guilty for doing this - try to avoid making generalizations. When you recommended Ferrothorn, you followed saying that "it's a best staller in OU," which is not relevant to this particular team (unless this team is a sand stall team). You should cut to the chase and explain how Ferrothorn offers reliable protection against Rain offense. When explaining Ferrothorn's set, you emphasized his stalling capabilities more than his ability to tank Rain Offense, thanks to its amazing special defense and resistance to Water + Electric offense (although such explanation is less necessary when rating more experienced players). You could have mentioned Leech Seed + Protect in context of dealing with Rain threats (ie. with "Leech Seed + Protect," it can tank powerful Rain hits for the team longer).

Your recommendation for Hippowdon is sort of vague, too. I don't know if I would be convinced in using Hippowdon just because it offer physical bulk and an additional sandstreamer. There's no urgency to make this change, because you have neglected to identify the physical threats that plagues this team and did not relate it back to your Hippowdon's suggestion. He may also not see the need for 2 sandstorm mons. I personally don't see the need for a second sandstreamer, since this team does not really utilize mons dependent on the weather, such as SubAcrobatics Gliscor or Sand Force Landorus. Hippowdon also isn't the best answer to SD Scizor, which can plow through this team. Jellicent or Skarmory may have been a better suggestions.

I think a little bit more meta knowledge is necessary for rating OU teams. This way you can better pinpoint threats and offer a more practical solution. Admittedly, the team you chose to rate was horrible, so props for trying to rate such a demanding team!

MavsObbession · Apr 26th, 2012, 8:03:14 AM

@mostwanted

Thank you for sending me the link to that thread! This will help me greatly, and I understand it's going to take a lot of work and patience. Thanks though!

@Pocket

Yeah, I sometimes play OU, maybe I'll go into that tier a little more so I can be effective in rating OU Teams. Thanks for the tips!

Thank you everyone! XD

Ok, I did another rate on the same Goodstuffs VGC Team from yesterday; here's the link! (the other rate is on the 2nd page, by the way.)

VGC Goodstuffs 2nd Rate

Thanks!

Jan 8th, 2012, 8:15:53 PM	#27
Danilo Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 1,720 http://justsmogonthings.tumblr.com/	http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3460439 That's the link of the team I just rated. I know my lengths aren't as lengthy as other rates but I feel(hope) that I still get the job done. Any criticisms? __________________ nigres: yo im checking danilos profile nigres: daily nigres: for that bolded title nigres: of moderator

Jan 8th, 2012, 8:30:22 PM	#29
Danilo Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 1,720 http://justsmogonthings.tumblr.com/	Aight, good to know my rate wasn't awful. I kind of just assumed that Thunder was Thunderbolt. In the future I'll do my best to pick up on those things. Anything other criticism is more than welcome. __________________ nigres: yo im checking danilos profile nigres: daily nigres: for that bolded title nigres: of moderator

Jan 19th, 2012, 3:54:44 PM	#31
New World Order The Baby Arcanine All Grown Up :') Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,897 Edmonton	Yeah, those teams are well thought out and already have most threats covered. Especially Tomahawk's team, it took me a good 5 minutes or so to find the problems with that team. With teams like that, less is more. EV changes, item changes, move changes etc are just as valuable as team member changes. I think you did a pretty good job with the rate on Joeyboy's team, although you may want to mention that your Celebi set doesn't check Volt-turn nearly as well as Breloom. Remember, pros and cons to every change ;) __________________ RAWRGRAWRAWWRARRWRAARGRAWWRAWWRAR

Jan 19th, 2012, 7:54:44 PM	#33
New World Order The Baby Arcanine All Grown Up :') Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,897 Edmonton	lol, sorry, I can't read :( __________________ RAWRGRAWRAWWRARRWRAARGRAWWRAWWRAR

Jan 19th, 2012, 8:19:37 PM	#34
Pocket Bakuman ;< Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 7,185 Bergenfield	I tried both, but I like the latter, since it's more compact. However, when I want the person to take special note of the moves, I do a hybrid of the two: Pokemon @ Item \| Trait Nature \| 252 / 4 / 252 - Move - Move - Move - Move Either case, I usually hide tags these information and set explanation to make the rate more organized. EDIT: I actually haven't thought of it like that! Yea, definitely go with the standard export format for the newer folks posting teams :d __________________ Dark Horse Project: Conquer the Ladder! \| Word of Wisdom for Trainers \| Smogon Doubles: Let's Make It Official! Last edited by Pocket; Jan 19th, 2012 at 9:29:19 PM.

Jan 20th, 2012, 2:50:48 AM	#36
BTzz don't be scared homie Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 688 Canada	I rated teams back when I first joined Smogon, but looking back I realize they were pretty crappy. Now that I have a bit more knowledge of the metagame, I've decided to get back into team rating. I'd love some advise on one of my recent rates :) tavok's Sun Team My Rate Hey, cool sun team. First off, I know they're most likely typos, but you have several natures listed as Hardy so I would change them to the appropriate ones. The first threat to your team that jumped out at me was Swords Dance Lucario. Once it gets to +2 it will do some serious damage to your team, as your only normal resist is weak to Close Combat and Extremespeed > Hitmontops Mach Punch. A bulkier Hitmontop set with intimidate could fix this up, however I'm going to suggest a Choice Scarf Terrakion > Latios over Latios since I don't really like Latios as your revenge killer. Latios, (especially with a Scarf) is basically a free switch-in for one of a sun team's main concerns, Tyranitar. Terrakion on the other hand, keeps Tyranitar away meaning you can keep your sun up longer while also revenge killing almost all the same threats as Latios did. Scarf Terrakion also gives you a great pivot switch if Tyranitar wants to switch into Heatran or Ninetales. With Terrakion around, I think Hitmontop can be replaced. Personally I don't think your team needs Rapid Spin support. Your team does a very good job at keepong the pressure on common hazard users such as Ferrothorn and Tyranitar, not to mention your only Stealth Rock weak Pokemon is Ninetales. I suggest a Physically Deffensive Cresselia > Hitmontop. This change does a lot of things for your team and sun teams in general. She provides you with a study mixed wall thanks to a sun boosted Moonlight, while providing you with a secondary check to Landorus, Terrakion, Dragonite etc. You lose your backup sun, however with Cress you gain reflect support which is better in a lot of situations, specifically with your specially def based Pokemon like Heatran. If you decide to roll with this change then I would use Sunny Day > Sub on Ninetales due to the lack of spinner. You can check out Ninetales Sunny Day set for the full explantion. Finally, I don't think Mixed Venusaur is really nessasary here. Sure beating Heatran is nice, but with Earthpower on your own Heatran, HP Fighting on Ninetales and possibly Scarf Terrakion, I don't think losing all that power is worth it. I would just go with the standard Special Growth Venusaur for more power. This also means you can run Leftovers on Venusaur, which is great since it's your only reliable Rotom-W switch in. hide="set(s)" Terrakion @ Choice Scarf Jolly nature Justified EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe - Close Combat - Stone Edge - X-Scissor - Earthquake Cresselia @ Leftovers Bold nature EVs: 252 HP / 196 Atk / 60 Spe Levitate - Psychic - Ice Beam - Moonlight - Reflect \| hide gl with your team :) I still need to work on my grammar :/ Oh and regarding set format, sometimes I like to format my suggested sets the same as the how the OP formatted theirs so it's easier for them to put it into their RMT should they decide to use it.

Feb 7th, 2012, 6:15:03 AM	#38
*Delko at the end of the game, the king and the pawn go into the same box Super Moderator** Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 2,961 Belgium Mentor	Decent rate Arcticblast, but you remain a bit shallow. You only suggest small moveset changes rather then providing a solution for threats to this team. Don't get me wrong your suggestions are good (Swift Swim Kabutops in conjunction with Drizzle Politoed is banned anyway) but they don't change the fact that the team is still pretty weak to Volcarona, strong physical attackers such as Terrakion and Lucario, VoltTurn, Stall teams etc.

Feb 17th, 2012, 9:44:20 PM	#40
ShakeItUp Darkravenn12: Always and Forever Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 2,118 Mentor	K well since no official TR's are commenting, guess I will hehe. It's nice effort Expert Physics, especially since you let him retain his sandstorm team and such even when replacing Tyranitar. However, I would try not to overstate Hippowdon's bulk in how it can wall CB Terrakion. Adamant CB Terrakion scores a clean 2HKO against Hippowdon (SR cancels out Leftovers) and Jolly CB Terrakion does 88% minimum after two hits. meaning that if Hippowdon isn't at full HP or very close to it, it won't be a very effective check. Keep that in mind, and do damage calcs if you aren't sure how much an attack will do. I also fail to see how a Hippowdon can handle Volt-Turn. Scizor can just U-Turn out and Hippowdon will get blasted by Rotom-W's Hydro Pump. Regardless, he has a Celebi with Hidden Power Fire, so Volt-Turn is essentially already covered since he already had Forretress to take U-Turn. @harsha, as I stated earlier, Celebi has Hidden Power Fire so Latias wouldn't really help the cause since it essentially does the same thing. Either way, everyone gets better with practice and it's a solid start! __________________ (19:01) galacticos: at least im not (19:01) galacticos: 0-5 like you (19:01) galacticos: gg bro Galacticos (Random PO scrub who johned me) to user: Double01

Feb 18th, 2012, 2:49:23 AM	#41
ToF Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,029	Yes I agree with the above comments. You cited voltturn as a weakness yet Celebi breaks that strategy single-handedly. You suggested adding more Pursuit weak Pokemon in Latias, which doesn't help the overall synergy of the team. One thing I don't like is you said Scarf Landorus is a problem assuming x, y, and z are dead. Of course that's the case lol, if your counter to something is dead naturally you're gonna have a problem with it. Avoid using things like that in your rates. I think you just need to kinda sort out your advice first. I like the format, I think you elaborated on suggestions just fine, but the actual suggestions could use some fine-tuning.

Mar 28th, 2012, 3:53:04 AM	#43
SkullCandy She Bangs The Drums Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 558	Hey guys. I used to be really into team rating and have recently got back into it again (you could say I'm a bit of a RMT junkie, I post about 4/5 rates a day.) Could I get some feed back on a couple or rates perhaps, to see if I'm doing it right? Here are the links: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthr...65#post4166165 http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthr...22#post4165022 http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthr...26#post4165626 Thanks __________________ C&C The Smog I <3 the Stone Roses

Mar 28th, 2012, 10:29:10 AM	#44
San_Pellegrino the eternal dreamer Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,600	Hey Skull Candy, Glad to see the rating enthusiasm! I think that a problem that you have is that you haven't been taking time to identify pokemon functions within the individual team microcosm. On the sun team, there are some glaring weaknesses to mons like Heatran and opposing weathers. While I agree with changing Voltorb (which you identified as a revenge killer, when it is really more of a support/annoyer) on that team, adding a Heatran of his own might be a better solution, offensive or defensive. Adding Donphan on the Gazelle + Dragon team over Heatran also might not have been the first thing I did, but it was really good that you identified the right problem of not having a spinner in what seemed a heavy offensive team. (I personally would have done what bubbly suggested - Starmie and Scizor, who posted after you) Work for elaborating on the basis strategy of: Identify a problem - Articulate it to the Team builder, proving why it is a problem - Suggesting a solution, as well as its pros and cons. Keep on working at it! __________________

Apr 12th, 2012, 1:43:19 PM	#45
The Silent Storm Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 99	Hi there, I love to rate teams and making them better, however I didn't rate on a long time, so any feedbacks are appreciated! http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3464912 http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthr...43#post4185743 http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthr...82#post4185682 http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthr...77#post4185677 __________________ Gone for good

Apr 25th, 2012, 6:36:53 PM	#46
MavsObbession Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 299 Helpful Posts: 0	Here are the links to my rates so far: VGC Goodstuffs Rate OU Sand Team Rate I want to really improve towards being a recognized Team Rater, I appreciate it! __________________ Some of My VGC RMT Rates: VGC Trick Room Rate \| VGC Goodstuffs Rate #5 PM or VM me for a VGC rate! Last edited by MavsObbession; May 7th, 2012 at 7:49:34 PM.

Apr 25th, 2012, 7:55:06 PM	#47
PenguinX slow loris ˁ(⦿ᴥ⦿)ˀ Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 419	http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthr...73#post4189873 http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthr...94#post4197694 http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthr...59#post4206659 So I'm trying to get into rating and these are some of my recent rates that I'm looking on some feedback for. I think the actual suggestions I'm making are all solid but I make things way more tl;dr than they often need to be, which is something I need to work on I guess. I just really want to cover everything I want to say and sometimes I go a little over the top. I imagine some of the other team raters have had this problem in the past and just want to know if I should work on being more concise? I should probably use colours and bold text and other stuff I guess because it would probably make it easier for the team builder to highlight what I'm actually suggesting in my essays. __________________ http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mc...ho5ko1_400.gif

Apr 26th, 2012, 1:59:06 AM	#48
mostwanted Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 938	The Silent Storm: Decent rates, you identified the threats and provided minimum changes which is always something we are looking for. My main concern is your format and descriptions, at the moment both of them are poor and need improvement. You should type complete and proper sentences in order to make it understandable for others. Try to be as descriptive regarding your recommendations as possible. If you are unsure about the format I suggest checking this out, it'll give you the essential information regarding how to deliver a well-throughout rate. I also noticed your rating isn't very consistent, if you are looking forward to becoming an official Team Rater, please rate often ! MavsObbession: I really like your rates, they are all well thought and executed nicely. You have the potential to be an effective all-round Team Rater but it'll require a lot of work and patience. To step your quality to a whole another level, I recommend reading this thread carefully, it'll provide you with the necessary tips on how to rate and structure your rates even better, for example after reading it you would know how many maximum Pokemon you can replace and how to organize your rates to be more visually appealing and of great quality. Lastly please make yourself familiar with the tiers before rating. Keep up the good work ! PenguinX: Your rates are incredible in terms of both high quality and quantity wise. I would say your main priority should be to fix all the important things like the top-threats and sets for a team, don't worry too much about emphasizing on every single Pokemon. Yes, by using both colors and bold text you basically summarize your rates and make it efficient for others to read. On another side note, you can possibly try merging your paragraphs into two or three important ones where the first or second ones would contain necessary changes and the last one would be reserved for minor changes. Try to be consistent while rating and keep doing what you do best ! Last edited by mostwanted; Apr 26th, 2012 at 9:18:11 AM. Reason: fixed the links

Apr 26th, 2012, 4:17:01 AM	#49
Pocket Bakuman ;< Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 7,185 Bergenfield	MavsObbession, you obviously know your VGC meta - you have provided some very thoughtful rate for that Goodstuffs team, supplementing some calcs to back your Grass Knot suggestion. The amount of detail is sufficient and spot-on, as well. The second rate could use some improvement, though. You noted the big weakness to Rain, but then in your example you cited Ludicolo, which is hardly seen in OU ladder due to Aldaron's Proposal (it's not the same as VGC :d). When you explained Golurk's mediocrity, you mentioned Grass Knot, but that is also not a common move in OU, since most opt for Giga Drain for recovery and to hurt Rotom-W / Politoed. When you were comparing Scizor to Escavalier, I would have pointed out Scizor's access to Superpower, U-turn, and technician Bullet Punch before Bug Bite and its ability to knock out Ludicolo. You are obviously in VGC mode here -_-;; Although I may also be guilty for doing this - try to avoid making generalizations. When you recommended Ferrothorn, you followed saying that "it's a best staller in OU," which is not relevant to this particular team (unless this team is a sand stall team). You should cut to the chase and explain how Ferrothorn offers reliable protection against Rain offense. When explaining Ferrothorn's set, you emphasized his stalling capabilities more than his ability to tank Rain Offense, thanks to its amazing special defense and resistance to Water + Electric offense (although such explanation is less necessary when rating more experienced players). You could have mentioned Leech Seed + Protect in context of dealing with Rain threats (ie. with "Leech Seed + Protect," it can tank powerful Rain hits for the team longer). Your recommendation for Hippowdon is sort of vague, too. I don't know if I would be convinced in using Hippowdon just because it offer physical bulk and an additional sandstreamer. There's no urgency to make this change, because you have neglected to identify the physical threats that plagues this team and did not relate it back to your Hippowdon's suggestion. He may also not see the need for 2 sandstorm mons. I personally don't see the need for a second sandstreamer, since this team does not really utilize mons dependent on the weather, such as SubAcrobatics Gliscor or Sand Force Landorus. Hippowdon also isn't the best answer to SD Scizor, which can plow through this team. Jellicent or Skarmory may have been a better suggestions. I think a little bit more meta knowledge is necessary for rating OU teams. This way you can better pinpoint threats and offer a more practical solution. Admittedly, the team you chose to rate was horrible, so props for trying to rate such a demanding team! __________________ Dark Horse Project: Conquer the Ladder! \| Word of Wisdom for Trainers \| Smogon Doubles: Let's Make It Official!

Apr 26th, 2012, 8:03:14 AM	#50
MavsObbession Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 299 Helpful Posts: 0	@mostwanted Thank you for sending me the link to that thread! This will help me greatly, and I understand it's going to take a lot of work and patience. Thanks though! @Pocket Yeah, I sometimes play OU, maybe I'll go into that tier a little more so I can be effective in rating OU Teams. Thanks for the tips! Thank you everyone! XD Ok, I did another rate on the same Goodstuffs VGC Team from yesterday; here's the link! (the other rate is on the 2nd page, by the way.) VGC Goodstuffs 2nd Rate Thanks! __________________ Some of My VGC RMT Rates: VGC Trick Room Rate \| VGC Goodstuffs Rate #5 PM or VM me for a VGC rate! Last edited by mostwanted; May 1st, 2012 at 11:28:33 PM.