Rating Basics - Page 4

MMF · Jun 15th, 2012, 11:42:21 PM

Hey so I've been trying to rate as many NU teams as I can to help people get better in the tier so I thought I would see if I'm going in the right direction with my rates! Here they are :)

Rate 1 : http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...55&postcount=3

Rate 2 : http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...85&postcount=3

Dracule Mihawk · Jun 18th, 2012, 1:47:16 PM

Hey I just did my first rate,

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...22&postcount=3

The team is http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4279754

Ty. ^_^

Superpowerdude · Jun 30th, 2012, 11:41:05 PM

Hey i like to believe i give out some good advice but my team rating is far from perfect i would like someone to rate my rate if that makes sense (lol) and tell me what i have done wrong and right Thanks http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3468806

Sayonara · Jul 6th, 2012, 8:20:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Superpowerdude

Hey i like to believe i give out some good advice but my team rating is far from perfect i would like someone to rate my rate if that makes sense (lol) and tell me what i have done wrong and right Thanks http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3468806

(I noticed a week went by without anyone replying, so I decided to give it a shot!) Hi! I find that replacing 3 Pokemon on a team isn't a good idea, as it opens the team to new threats. Additionally, your format is sorta messy. You don't have to put 3 distinct spoiler boxes; you can just put all sets in a single spoiler at the end of your rate. When mentioning sets, I would recommend this format:

Pokemon @ Item | Trait
Nature | 252 / 4 / 252
Move / Move / Move / Move

For the Abomasnow change, you don't really explain the benefits of using that set over his current set. Saying "good players use this set" won't help the reader understand how and why to use that set over the one he / she currently uses. You're just describing the moves and not explaining why he should use the set. Finally, you should also change some of his team's EVs, as they are not all optimal at this point. Just some pointers.

Sayonara · Jul 6th, 2012, 8:35:24 PM

Rate 1
Rate 2
Rate 3
Rate 4
Rate 5

Unbreakable · Jul 11th, 2012, 10:40:52 PM

Why I never have this much insight into my own teams, I will never know, but here's my stab in the dark.

Link

Sayonara · Jul 12th, 2012, 9:04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Unbreakable

Why I never have this much insight into my own teams, I will never know, but here's my stab in the dark.

Link

Pretty solid rate and nicely organized; well done! A few suggestions:

For Starmie's addition, make sure to point out which item it should hold; that's important.
Volcarona doesn't learn Recover - it learns Roost.
(Optional) When you mention the Tinkerbell set without giving out the moves in detail, I would link the Celebi analysis so the user can go check out the set. Now it would look like this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Unbreakable

The Tinkerbell set in particular is designed to do whatever you need it to do at the time, be it offense, defense or support, so I would imagine it's a great "panic button."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Unbreakable

or if rain is an issue you can run Hurricane in the fourth slot, enabling the moth to function in both sun and rain.

This part is a bit confusing, as Hurricane doesn't actually function well in Sun (it has a 50% accuracy, making it unreliable).

TrollFreak · Jul 13th, 2012, 6:51:45 PM

Did an Ubers Rate

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...11&postcount=7

DestinyUnknown · Jul 14th, 2012, 1:20:50 AM

@TrollFreak: your rate is decent but in my opinion, changing 3 pokemon (and with completely different roles that the previous members of the team) isn't helpful because its like you were making a brand new team. In some way it's probably a fault of the OP too if his team h

So basically, when you rate teams try not to change the way the team works and is centered about. In resume, try to improve the team but changing the least as posible.

Edit: not noticed the latias suggestion, I shouldnt do this at 2am. Anyway, my point stands since 3/6 pokemon are changed and it would have probably been better to replace either Darkrai or Blaziken as they were by far e most replaceable pokemon on his team.

Superpowerdude · Jul 14th, 2012, 6:58:32 AM

Thanks for the advice Expert Physics in this next rate I tried to change as little as possible and keep the format cleaner! any thoughts on how to improve? any advice?
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3469527

**Harsha** · Jul 14th, 2012, 11:05:32 AM

Superpowerdude - You did a good job noticing that he had too many Choice item users, and I would probably agree with you as far as SubCharge Magnezone goes, as it helps him get rid of Steel-types and let Staraptor or Salamence sweep. However, when you suggested changing Salamence to Politoed or Heatran, I don't think I'd agree with you. In my opinion, Staraptor was easily the weakest link, but he obviously won't change that. However, I find that replacing Salamence for something slower opens up too many holes, as he no longer gets an answer to +1 Volcarona, and Heatran can still lose to Hidden Power Ground variants, while Politoed doesn't really provide anything useful to the team other than Thunder. It also makes the team very weak to Electric-type attacks, especially VoltTurn. I would probably suggest a few things; first off, tell him to use a Jolly nature on Salamence in order to have a semi-reliable check to Volcarona. Also, this team is for BW2, and it's really, really weak to rain offense. You point out that sun offense is a threat, which it can be, but rain is a much bigger problem in this metagame, and Agility Thundurus-T has a field day when it comes into a Choice-locked Electric-type move. You could maybe recommend a Jirachi over Scizor, who I find has not been as useful in this metagame. Jirachi tanks lots of hits from rain offense and it can provide U-turn as well to keep momentum.

At the end of the day, I don't really think the team you rated was very well-equipped for this metagame, but you did point out some useful things. Sorry about the length of this, I wanted to get down all of my thoughts as quickly as possible. Keep up with rating, you're definitely improving!

Superpowerdude · Jul 14th, 2012, 3:41:18 PM

Thanks Harsha I will be sure to take into account what you said and come back with better rates!

TrollFreak · Jul 14th, 2012, 4:06:54 PM

Took DestinyUnknown's advice and made another rate.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...93&postcount=2

and another (was discussing this with Jirachi, TR to be, on IRC)

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...40&postcount=3

Superpowerdude · Jul 14th, 2012, 10:39:29 PM

I am back with two more rates

Rate 1
Rate 2
Rate 3

Any advice?

spuds4ever · Jul 16th, 2012, 10:11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Superpowerdude

I am back with two more rates

Rate 1
Rate 2
Rate 3

Any advice?

The rates seem pretty good, I would seperate each of your points with a paragraph, it makes what you're writing easier to digest. Also, in your first rate, jellicent doesn't counter volcarona for the record but it was still a good suggestion.

I did an uber rate myself and would appreciate some feedback.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthr...29#post4321329

DestinyUnknown · Jul 17th, 2012, 7:35:09 PM

@spuds4ever: while the rate seems decent to me there are some things I dont completely get. You say the team is weak to rayquaza and blaziken (half of the rate tells why) but then you don't give an y solution to deal with them (jirachi isn't really a good response). The Rayquaza / Blaziken issue can befixed way better suggesting a diferent ev spread / moves on Groudon. Then you say he cant t deal with Mewtwo, who cant switch in on anything and he has chople ttar/excadrill/kyurem and even ho-oh to check it.

However, you didn't point out the huge weakness Gliscor and Giratina-O the team has.

To be fair, while youvdid a good effort (which is nice to see) I think you should think longer and try to find the biggest weaknesses of the team to be able to make better rates, while triying to help the user to fix them / play around it. It's completely ok that you point out a weakness (like blaziken) but if you don't tell the poster how to fix it they may not overcome correctly (lets say you tell somebody hes gyarados weak, if you don't recommend how to stop it they might just slap a Jolteon over something and call it a day)

Try to keep it in mind next time :)

spuds4ever · Jul 18th, 2012, 3:40:23 AM

Groudon will still go down to SD rayquaza so fixing its spread and set wasn't really enough IMO. Scarf jirachi seems like a pretty good response IMO, with ice punch always OHKOing after rocks. Giratina-O and gliscor aren't really really an issue to the team I don't think. Grassceus basically hard-counters gliscor and giratina-O will certainly struggle against ttar.

I didn't actually say he was weak to mewtwo, I was just saying that jirachi was able to take it down.

Granted, the best I could do to solve the blaziken weakness without making a hefty change (not many players are eager to switch out two pokemon) was to put regenerator on ho-oh.

Maybe my rate just wasn't very clear, but thankyou for the feedback anyway. :)

DestinyUnknown · Jul 19th, 2012, 1:26:08 AM

Kyurem could already revenge Sd Rayquaza (not as well but it could). Gliscor is dangerous because it can easily switch in and start toxic stalling (of course it can't win alone but its really dangerous when paired with something like Kyogre.

Giratina is very dangerous becauae it walls half of the team, blocks spin and can abuse hazards, which hurt a lot that team and it has WoW and dragon tail so ttar is not a good giratina counter

Superpowerdude · Jul 19th, 2012, 4:24:59 AM

Hey guys back with more rates I think I am getting alot better with my rates and finding problems with teams hence I am rating more so i just want to make sure I am doing everything right

Rate 1
Rate 2
Rate 3
Rate 4
Rate 5

**Jirachi** · Jul 20th, 2012, 11:04:29 AM

Hey superpowerdude I'll edit this later because I can't really write right now but I wanna say two things. First, your links to rate 2 and 3 don't work for me, and in your rate 5 you suggest dropping Bug Buzz on Volcarona which is a terrible idea, since it gets you walled by stuff like Latios which is extremely common.

Edit: So alright about your rate 5, I really don't think the ScarfMence > Scarf Haxorus suggestion was that good of an idea. Reason is, Haxorus is also able to sweep late game, so I really don't get why you'd swap it for Salamence. If anything, both work in a similar way except Haxorus has higher Attack and Mold Breaker, while Salamence gets Moxie. I don't think this team has trouble with sweeping late game with 2 scarfers and Volcarona. Also I'll explain a bit more the reason why I don't like Giga Drain over Bug Buzz. They both cover different stuff but I think Bug Buzz clearlu has the advantage here, since it beats stuff you can't even scratch with Giga Drain, like Hydreigon, Latios (and Latias), and it also gives you the opportunity to beat frailer stuff that resist Fiery Dance like Haxorus. Without Sun boosted Fire Blast Bug Buzz becomes its most powerful move which is extremely important. If you really want to fit Giga Drain it should have been over HP Rock, since i's only purpose is to cover Dragonite, Gyarados and Salamence.

In my opinion your fourth rate is MUCH better, since it's probably true that Forretress is a much greater help to this team than Ferrothorn, considering he can cover the threats that Ferrothorn covered with his other Pokemon. However I feel like you could have explained a bit more about that change. In his reply after, he didn't seem to understand how much that change would help him, as he replied you that Forretress "was beaten by Fire and Water attacks". Maybe telling him that even though he loses Ferrothorn as a Water resist, he still has Latios which is one of the best, and it has great synergy with Forretress, while also having Suicune who can take a Water hit from something without Electric coverage. That would probably have made him understand your suggestion better and I'm sure he would have liked it.

I think your first rate is the best in the three I could see, and by far. You clearly explained what was the issue with Bronzong not having Hidden Power Ice, which is great, and why would Volcarona benefit from dropping Fire Blast for Giga Drain. Maybe he could have used Roost too in that situation though, as it is much more reliable for healing Life Orb recoil considering your opponent might not send Grass weak Pokemon against Volcarona, and Hurricane still does a ton of damage to anything that doesn't resist it but to me it seems alright.

Good job, keep up the good work.

Superpowerdude · Jul 20th, 2012, 7:27:55 PM

Thanks alot for the help jirachi i will try and expand on my descriptions of why to make a certian change as well as re thing what a move offers coverage wise before replacing it.( I was only thinking about steels when swapping giga drain to bug buzz) So thanks for the help jirachi! :)

DestinyUnknown · Jul 20th, 2012, 9:49:29 PM

@Superpowerdude: not going to tell you whats wrong on each rate since jirachi already did so it would be a waste of time. However, I recommend that you do not base your rates on personal preference exclusivelly because on most of the rates i have seen from you, you only change moves/pokemon regarding to what you "like the most" instead of what the creator of the team wants/need. For example, when you suggest (on the rate 5 ) using Hp ground on Volcarona, you should think before"does he really need Heatran out that bad?" "what's the move with the best sinergy for the team?". Once you have thought about it, you must explain to the user why that change, how is his team/set improvong with that tweak.

Oh, and I know it can be boring but the most important thing before starting to rate is find the most important threats to the team. Something you can do when you do not find the threats immediately is looking upon the threatlists for the tier of the team you're rating and trying to figure how the team handles each threat.

Hope I helped

Superpowerdude · Jul 21st, 2012, 12:38:03 AM

@ DestinyUnkown thanks man I will use the threat list for my rates :)

bluewooper · Jul 21st, 2012, 9:12:05 AM

Hi everyone! It's been a while since I have been rating consistently, but these are my first two rates in a long time, could you guys look at them?

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3469771
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3469871

**Jirachi** · Jul 22nd, 2012, 2:48:34 PM

Hey bluewooper,

In your first rate, you clearly identified one of the team's weakness, which was the lack of Electric resist, making it much weaker to Thundurus-T. Then, you fixed that Thundurus-T weakness with one of its best checks, Mamoswine. While that helps that team tremendeously against Thundurus-T, it doesn't really help it against some of the other Electric attacks abusers, like Rotom-W. Rotom-W can still mow this team down because the only Electric immunity gets blasted by Hydro Pump. I think that maybe you should have suggested him something that resists Electric and can beat most Electric Pokemon, not just a specific one, Thundurus-T in this case, because that still leaves him with a glaring weakness to other Electric types.

I like your layout though, I don't really have time to help you with the second rate. Keep up the good work.

Jun 30th, 2012, 11:41:05 PM	#78
Superpowerdude A Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 914 Australia Mentor	Hey i like to believe i give out some good advice but my team rating is far from perfect i would like someone to rate my rate if that makes sense (lol) and tell me what i have done wrong and right Thanks http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3468806 __________________ #ratemyteam \| Smog Work\| Rater Of the Week \| RMT \| Dogbirds Join #dogbirds on irc!!!

Jul 6th, 2012, 8:35:24 PM	#80
Sayonara into the new world Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 721	Rate 1 Rate 2 Rate 3 Rate 4 Rate 5 Last edited by Sayonara; Jul 6th, 2012 at 9:52:29 PM.

Jul 11th, 2012, 10:40:52 PM	#81
Unbreakable Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 349 A paper bag	Why I never have this much insight into my own teams, I will never know, but here's my stab in the dark. Link __________________ But I got wiped out with no saving grace at all! And then I'm told I don't have any talent?! Man...

Jul 13th, 2012, 6:51:45 PM	#83
TrollFreak (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ (╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻ Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 1,249 New York born, New York proud	Did an Ubers Rate http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...11&postcount=7 __________________ Work Ever wanted to contribute to Smogon? Visit the Contributions and Corrections forum! ~SNOVERS~

Jul 14th, 2012, 1:20:50 AM	#84
DestinyUnknown Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 1,102 Spain	@TrollFreak: your rate is decent but in my opinion, changing 3 pokemon (and with completely different roles that the previous members of the team) isn't helpful because its like you were making a brand new team. In some way it's probably a fault of the OP too if his team h So basically, when you rate teams try not to change the way the team works and is centered about. In resume, try to improve the team but changing the least as posible. Edit: not noticed the latias suggestion, I shouldnt do this at 2am. Anyway, my point stands since 3/6 pokemon are changed and it would have probably been better to replace either Darkrai or Blaziken as they were by far e most replaceable pokemon on his team. __________________ Last edited by DestinyUnknown; Jul 14th, 2012 at 7:10:48 AM. Reason: -.-

Jun 15th, 2012, 11:42:21 PM	#76
MMF Give me the strength to part this sea Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 535 PM/VM me for an NU rate! Also part of NU QC VM me for a check!	Hey so I've been trying to rate as many NU teams as I can to help people get better in the tier so I thought I would see if I'm going in the right direction with my rates! Here they are :) Rate 1 : http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...55&postcount=3 Rate 2 : http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...85&postcount=3

Jun 18th, 2012, 1:47:16 PM	#77
Dracule Mihawk Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 146	Hey I just did my first rate, http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...22&postcount=3 The team is http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4279754 Ty. ^_^

Jul 14th, 2012, 6:58:32 AM	#85
Superpowerdude A Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 914 Australia Mentor	Thanks for the advice Expert Physics in this next rate I tried to change as little as possible and keep the format cleaner! any thoughts on how to improve? any advice? http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3469527 __________________ #ratemyteam \| Smog Work\| Rater Of the Week \| RMT \| Dogbirds Join #dogbirds on irc!!!

Jul 14th, 2012, 11:05:32 AM	#86
Harsha Moderator Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 938 Houston, TX Mentor	Superpowerdude - You did a good job noticing that he had too many Choice item users, and I would probably agree with you as far as SubCharge Magnezone goes, as it helps him get rid of Steel-types and let Staraptor or Salamence sweep. However, when you suggested changing Salamence to Politoed or Heatran, I don't think I'd agree with you. In my opinion, Staraptor was easily the weakest link, but he obviously won't change that. However, I find that replacing Salamence for something slower opens up too many holes, as he no longer gets an answer to +1 Volcarona, and Heatran can still lose to Hidden Power Ground variants, while Politoed doesn't really provide anything useful to the team other than Thunder. It also makes the team very weak to Electric-type attacks, especially VoltTurn. I would probably suggest a few things; first off, tell him to use a Jolly nature on Salamence in order to have a semi-reliable check to Volcarona. Also, this team is for BW2, and it's really, really weak to rain offense. You point out that sun offense is a threat, which it can be, but rain is a much bigger problem in this metagame, and Agility Thundurus-T has a field day when it comes into a Choice-locked Electric-type move. You could maybe recommend a Jirachi over Scizor, who I find has not been as useful in this metagame. Jirachi tanks lots of hits from rain offense and it can provide U-turn as well to keep momentum. At the end of the day, I don't really think the team you rated was very well-equipped for this metagame, but you did point out some useful things. Sorry about the length of this, I wanted to get down all of my thoughts as quickly as possible. Keep up with rating, you're definitely improving!

Jul 14th, 2012, 3:41:18 PM	#87
Superpowerdude A Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 914 Australia Mentor	Thanks Harsha I will be sure to take into account what you said and come back with better rates! __________________ #ratemyteam \| Smog Work\| Rater Of the Week \| RMT \| Dogbirds Join #dogbirds on irc!!! Last edited by Superpowerdude; Jul 14th, 2012 at 3:50:44 PM. Reason: spelling mistakes

Jul 14th, 2012, 4:06:54 PM	#88
TrollFreak (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ (╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻ Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 1,249 New York born, New York proud	Took DestinyUnknown's advice and made another rate. http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...93&postcount=2 and another (was discussing this with Jirachi, TR to be, on IRC) http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...40&postcount=3 __________________ Work Ever wanted to contribute to Smogon? Visit the Contributions and Corrections forum! ~SNOVERS~ Last edited by TrollFreak; Jul 14th, 2012 at 11:46:38 PM.

Jul 14th, 2012, 10:39:29 PM	#89
Superpowerdude A Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 914 Australia Mentor	I am back with two more rates Rate 1 Rate 2 Rate 3 Any advice? __________________ #ratemyteam \| Smog Work\| Rater Of the Week \| RMT \| Dogbirds Join #dogbirds on irc!!! Last edited by Superpowerdude; Jul 16th, 2012 at 2:54:33 AM. Reason: adding another rate

Jul 17th, 2012, 7:35:09 PM	#91
DestinyUnknown Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 1,102 Spain	@spuds4ever: while the rate seems decent to me there are some things I dont completely get. You say the team is weak to rayquaza and blaziken (half of the rate tells why) but then you don't give an y solution to deal with them (jirachi isn't really a good response). The Rayquaza / Blaziken issue can befixed way better suggesting a diferent ev spread / moves on Groudon. Then you say he cant t deal with Mewtwo, who cant switch in on anything and he has chople ttar/excadrill/kyurem and even ho-oh to check it. However, you didn't point out the huge weakness Gliscor and Giratina-O the team has. To be fair, while youvdid a good effort (which is nice to see) I think you should think longer and try to find the biggest weaknesses of the team to be able to make better rates, while triying to help the user to fix them / play around it. It's completely ok that you point out a weakness (like blaziken) but if you don't tell the poster how to fix it they may not overcome correctly (lets say you tell somebody hes gyarados weak, if you don't recommend how to stop it they might just slap a Jolteon over something and call it a day) Try to keep it in mind next time :) __________________

Jul 18th, 2012, 3:40:23 AM	#92
spuds4ever Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 661 UK	Groudon will still go down to SD rayquaza so fixing its spread and set wasn't really enough IMO. Scarf jirachi seems like a pretty good response IMO, with ice punch always OHKOing after rocks. Giratina-O and gliscor aren't really really an issue to the team I don't think. Grassceus basically hard-counters gliscor and giratina-O will certainly struggle against ttar. I didn't actually say he was weak to mewtwo, I was just saying that jirachi was able to take it down. Granted, the best I could do to solve the blaziken weakness without making a hefty change (not many players are eager to switch out two pokemon) was to put regenerator on ho-oh. Maybe my rate just wasn't very clear, but thankyou for the feedback anyway. :) __________________ A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word 'darkness' on the walls of his cell. ~C.S. Lewis

Jul 19th, 2012, 1:26:08 AM	#93
DestinyUnknown Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 1,102 Spain	Kyurem could already revenge Sd Rayquaza (not as well but it could). Gliscor is dangerous because it can easily switch in and start toxic stalling (of course it can't win alone but its really dangerous when paired with something like Kyogre. Giratina is very dangerous becauae it walls half of the team, blocks spin and can abuse hazards, which hurt a lot that team and it has WoW and dragon tail so ttar is not a good giratina counter __________________ Last edited by DestinyUnknown; Jul 28th, 2012 at 9:39:33 AM. Reason: .

Jul 19th, 2012, 4:24:59 AM	#94
Superpowerdude A Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 914 Australia Mentor	Hey guys back with more rates I think I am getting alot better with my rates and finding problems with teams hence I am rating more so i just want to make sure I am doing everything right Rate 1 Rate 2 Rate 3 Rate 4 Rate 5 __________________ #ratemyteam \| Smog Work\| Rater Of the Week \| RMT \| Dogbirds Join #dogbirds on irc!!! Last edited by Superpowerdude; Jul 20th, 2012 at 6:14:47 AM. Reason: adding another rate hyperlink

Jul 20th, 2012, 11:04:29 AM	#95
Jirachi No excuses. Moderator Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 976 #27 Galchenyuk Mentor	Hey superpowerdude I'll edit this later because I can't really write right now but I wanna say two things. First, your links to rate 2 and 3 don't work for me, and in your rate 5 you suggest dropping Bug Buzz on Volcarona which is a terrible idea, since it gets you walled by stuff like Latios which is extremely common. Edit: So alright about your rate 5, I really don't think the ScarfMence > Scarf Haxorus suggestion was that good of an idea. Reason is, Haxorus is also able to sweep late game, so I really don't get why you'd swap it for Salamence. If anything, both work in a similar way except Haxorus has higher Attack and Mold Breaker, while Salamence gets Moxie. I don't think this team has trouble with sweeping late game with 2 scarfers and Volcarona. Also I'll explain a bit more the reason why I don't like Giga Drain over Bug Buzz. They both cover different stuff but I think Bug Buzz clearlu has the advantage here, since it beats stuff you can't even scratch with Giga Drain, like Hydreigon, Latios (and Latias), and it also gives you the opportunity to beat frailer stuff that resist Fiery Dance like Haxorus. Without Sun boosted Fire Blast Bug Buzz becomes its most powerful move which is extremely important. If you really want to fit Giga Drain it should have been over HP Rock, since i's only purpose is to cover Dragonite, Gyarados and Salamence. In my opinion your fourth rate is MUCH better, since it's probably true that Forretress is a much greater help to this team than Ferrothorn, considering he can cover the threats that Ferrothorn covered with his other Pokemon. However I feel like you could have explained a bit more about that change. In his reply after, he didn't seem to understand how much that change would help him, as he replied you that Forretress "was beaten by Fire and Water attacks". Maybe telling him that even though he loses Ferrothorn as a Water resist, he still has Latios which is one of the best, and it has great synergy with Forretress, while also having Suicune who can take a Water hit from something without Electric coverage. That would probably have made him understand your suggestion better and I'm sure he would have liked it. I think your first rate is the best in the three I could see, and by far. You clearly explained what was the issue with Bronzong not having Hidden Power Ice, which is great, and why would Volcarona benefit from dropping Fire Blast for Giga Drain. Maybe he could have used Roost too in that situation though, as it is much more reliable for healing Life Orb recoil considering your opponent might not send Grass weak Pokemon against Volcarona, and Hurricane still does a ton of damage to anything that doesn't resist it but to me it seems alright. Good job, keep up the good work. Last edited by Jirachi; Jul 20th, 2012 at 11:49:09 AM.

Jul 20th, 2012, 7:27:55 PM	#96
Superpowerdude A Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 914 Australia Mentor	Thanks alot for the help jirachi i will try and expand on my descriptions of why to make a certian change as well as re thing what a move offers coverage wise before replacing it.( I was only thinking about steels when swapping giga drain to bug buzz) So thanks for the help jirachi! :) __________________ #ratemyteam \| Smog Work\| Rater Of the Week \| RMT \| Dogbirds Join #dogbirds on irc!!!

Jul 20th, 2012, 9:49:29 PM	#97
DestinyUnknown Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 1,102 Spain	@Superpowerdude: not going to tell you whats wrong on each rate since jirachi already did so it would be a waste of time. However, I recommend that you do not base your rates on personal preference exclusivelly because on most of the rates i have seen from you, you only change moves/pokemon regarding to what you "like the most" instead of what the creator of the team wants/need. For example, when you suggest (on the rate 5 ) using Hp ground on Volcarona, you should think before"does he really need Heatran out that bad?" "what's the move with the best sinergy for the team?". Once you have thought about it, you must explain to the user why that change, how is his team/set improvong with that tweak. Oh, and I know it can be boring but the most important thing before starting to rate is find the most important threats to the team. Something you can do when you do not find the threats immediately is looking upon the threatlists for the tier of the team you're rating and trying to figure how the team handles each threat. Hope I helped __________________

Jul 21st, 2012, 12:38:03 AM	#98
Superpowerdude A Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 914 Australia Mentor	@ DestinyUnkown thanks man I will use the threat list for my rates :) __________________ #ratemyteam \| Smog Work\| Rater Of the Week \| RMT \| Dogbirds Join #dogbirds on irc!!!

Jul 21st, 2012, 9:12:05 AM	#99
bluewooper Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 154 Rate My Team Forum; C&C	Hi everyone! It's been a while since I have been rating consistently, but these are my first two rates in a long time, could you guys look at them? http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3469771 http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3469871 __________________ PM me for OU Rates! Need help with your Pokemon team? Visit #ratemyteam for exclusive help with your team!

Jul 22nd, 2012, 2:48:34 PM	#100
Jirachi No excuses. Moderator Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 976 #27 Galchenyuk Mentor	Hey bluewooper, In your first rate, you clearly identified one of the team's weakness, which was the lack of Electric resist, making it much weaker to Thundurus-T. Then, you fixed that Thundurus-T weakness with one of its best checks, Mamoswine. While that helps that team tremendeously against Thundurus-T, it doesn't really help it against some of the other Electric attacks abusers, like Rotom-W. Rotom-W can still mow this team down because the only Electric immunity gets blasted by Hydro Pump. I think that maybe you should have suggested him something that resists Electric and can beat most Electric Pokemon, not just a specific one, Thundurus-T in this case, because that still leaves him with a glaring weakness to other Electric types. I like your layout though, I don't really have time to help you with the second rate. Keep up the good work.